Guardiola v Klopp H2H

[Skills]

Currently sits at 9 wins each and 4 draws.

They split it 4-4 in the Bundesliga but Guardiola obviously had a much stronger team.

Klopp dominated it early on with 4 wins 1 draw and 1 loss up until the end of 17/18. But it seems like Guardiola's flipped it since then - with 4 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss since the start of 18/19. City really should've won yesterday, and they don't look anywhere near as troubled by Liverpool anymore - even though a few years ago you'd have Liverpool as City's kryptonite. Has Guardiola figured out how to counter Klopp?

 

[DWelbz19]

It seems like he starts off poorly against the other bigger teams and then gradually works out to beat them — his record against Tuchel has been quite naff but he won the most recent game quite comfortably. Likewise with Ole.

 

[Redfrog]

It seems like he starts off poorly against the other bigger teams and then gradually works out to beat them — his record against Tuchel has been quite naff but he won the most recent game quite comfortably. Likewise with Ole.

His team is awesome defensively since last year. Before the game yesterday they conceded only 6 shots on target in 6 games. It’s ridiculous. And yesterday, Liverpool had 2 or 3 shots on target for 2 goals.
Compare that to us and what did De Gea since the season started…
City will win the league again I think, they are not even in second gear…

It pains me to see what is easily the best manager in the world to our noisy neighbor, a small club…

 

[Righteous Steps]

He’s figured out how to outspend him by a margin of x4

 

[11101]

I don't think it's a case of both of them have a set way to play and are at loggerheads with each other. Each game is quite different in how they set up, other than the high tempo. It's great to watch how the teams evolve game to game and even in game. I think Liverpool's players have declined a little in the last year or two and that's why Pep has begun to match him.

Outside of this one fixture I think Klopp is the better manager overall. I dread to think what he could do with the same budget.

 

[Dumbstar]

Pep has gone up a level. Very impressive this season. In the PL for now anyway despite the loss to Spurs. Title favourites by a long way for me.

 

[SuperiorXI]

I reckon Joe Bloggs on RedCafe could beat Klopp with five hundred zillion million quid to spend. Also Joe Bloggs from RedCafe might not be bald, which is an added bonus.

 

[groovyalbert]

It seems like he starts off poorly against the other bigger teams and then gradually works out to beat them — his record against Tuchel has been quite naff but he won the most recent game quite comfortably. Likewise with Ole.

Shame he never had that issue with SAF

 

[Karel Podolsky]

I reckon Joe Bloggs on RedCafe could beat Klopp with five hundred zillion million quid to spend. Also Joe Bloggs from RedCafe might not be bald, which is an added bonus.

If a PE teacher could take the second biggest spender team to 2nd league finish, sure Joe Bloggs could.

 

[acnumber9]

Pep has gone up a level. Very impressive this season. In the PL for now anyway despite the loss to Spurs. Title favourites by a long way for me.

Throw in a draw at home to Southampton. Lack of a striker could still cost them.

 

[Pretzels81]

Shame he never had that issue with SAF

SAF had issues with Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi, not necessarily Pep.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

SAF had issues with Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi, not necessarily Pep.

Makes one wonder who was actually coaching these players you just named...

 

[galwayfa]

Pep gone at end of season, its a worry

 

[Caesar2290]

Makes one wonder who was actually coaching these players you just named...

Considering that Xavi-Iniest-Busquets won everything back to back at international level and Pep has yet to win a European crown since then it's clear to see who was the bigger issue for SAF.

 

[njred]

Pep gone at end of season, its a worry

Where is that from. Legit source please. Ironclad

 

[TwoSheds]

Considering that Xavi-Iniest-Busquets won everything back to back at international level and Pep has yet to win a European crown since then it's clear to see who was the bigger issue for SAF.

Have to agree. Pep is a terrific coach and clearly he must have helped make them the players they were to some extent but those guys were awesome before (well maybe not Busquets), during and after his tenure. The carousel in midfield and the cheat code in attack was a near unstoppable combination at times.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

Considering that Xavi-Iniest-Busquets won everything back to back at international level and Pep has yet to win a European crown since then it's clear to see who was the bigger issue for SAF.

Have to agree. Pep is a terrific coach and clearly he must have helped make them the players they were to some extent but those guys were awesome before (well maybe not Busquets), during and after his tenure. The carousel in midfield and the cheat code in attack was a near unstoppable combination at times.

Sorry but in 2008, no one was considering Xavi or Iniesta to be the amongst the best midfielders in the world to have ever played the game. Barca wanted to sell Xavi and Iniesta wasn't a starter for Barcelona.
The only thing they had won in the international level was the euros just before Pep arrived, and Iniesta wasn't even a starter in that Spanish team that only had 3 Barca players (Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol) at the beginning of the Euro competition just like he wasn't a starter at Barcelona back then.
Further more, that 08 Spanish team wasn't playing like Pep's Barca. 09/12 Spanish copied Pep's Barca which is why they become much more dominant in possession.

Italy just won the Euros, but i don't think any of you are calling Jorginho, Chiesa and other Italian players world beaters.
Xavi (who Barca wanted to sell before Pep arrived), Iniesta and the other Barca players careers clearly changed/evolved for the best once Pep arrived because he's a great coach who has influenced how the game is been played a lot. Those Barcelona players went on to become the legends they are after they crossed Pep's part.

All you need to do is listen to how every great player who has crossed Pep's part talks about how he improved them massively, so SAF's main problem was clearly Pep and his tactics.

 

[TwoSheds]

Sorry but in 2008, no one was considering Xavi or Iniesta to be the amongst the best midfielders in the world to have ever played the game. Barca wanted to sell Xavi and Iniesta wasn't a starter for Barcelona.
The only thing they had won in the international level was the euros just before Pep arrived, and Iniesta wasn't even a starter in that Spanish team that only had 3 Barca players (Xavi, Iniesta and Puyol) at the beginning of the Euro competition just like he wasn't a starter at Barcelona back then.
Further more, that 08 Spanish team wasn't playing like Pep's Barca. 09/12 Spanish copied Pep's Barca which is why they become much more dominant in possession.

Italy just won the Euros, but i don't think any of you are calling Jorginho, Chiesa and other Italian players world beaters.
Xavi (who Barca wanted to sell before Pep arrived), Iniesta and the other Barca players careers clearly changed/evolved for the best once Pep arrived because he's a great coach who has influenced how the game is been played a lot. Those Barcelona players went on to become the legends they are after they crossed Pep's part.

All you need to do is listen to how every great player who has crossed Pep's part talks about how he improved them massively, so SAF's main problem was clearly Pep and his tactics.

Young players in getting better with age shocker.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

I reckon Joe Bloggs on RedCafe could beat Klopp with five hundred zillion million quid to spend. Also Joe Bloggs from RedCafe might not be bald, which is an added bonus.

Mate, what the actual feck?

 

[RedStarUnited]

Young players in getting better with age shocker.

It could just be both. Peps vision of football was perfect for the types of players Xavi/Iniesta were.

 

[TwoSheds]

It could just be both. Peps vision of football was perfect for the types of players Xavi/Iniesta were.

That's exactly what I said. I don't doubt Pep in some way helped them become the players they did, he's a terrific coach, but the idea that they were or would have been rubbish players without him is ridiculous. We could barely get the ball off Xavi and Iniesta (or Deco and Touré!) in that CL tie in 2008. They weren't nobodies.

 

[Pep's Suit]

I don't think it's a case of both of them have a set way to play and are at loggerheads with each other. Each game is quite different in how they set up, other than the high tempo. It's great to watch how the teams evolve game to game and even in game. I think Liverpool's players have declined a little in the last year or two and that's why Pep has begun to match him.

Outside of this one fixture I think Klopp is the better manager overall. I dread to think what he could do with the same budget.

People said the same about Poch. But more money => more expensive transfers => more ego. Look at Keita and Thiago, expensive or big-name players but none of them performed for Klopp.

 

[Varun]

I reckon Joe Bloggs on RedCafe could beat Klopp with five hundred zillion million quid to spend. Also Joe Bloggs from RedCafe might not be bald, which is an added bonus.

Never ceases to amaze me how Utd fans can be this clueless when the truth smacks them on their head every fkin week

 

[SuperiorXI]

Mate, what the actual feck?

You disagree?

 

[Zen86]

People said the same about Poch. But more money => more expensive transfers => more ego. Look at Keita and Thiago, expensive or big-name players but none of them performed for Klopp.

Money isn't a handicap, Pep has the luxury of buying anyone he wants. You can't really argue with what Klopp has achieved with Liverpool.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Never ceases to amaze me how Utd fans can be this clueless when the truth smacks them on their head every fkin week

In fairness I doubt Ole has a RedCafe account so your point is invalid

 

[footballistic orgasm]

Young players in getting better with age shocker.

That's exactly what I said. I don't doubt Pep in some way helped them become the players they did, he's a terrific coach, but the idea that they were or would have been rubbish players without him is ridiculous. We could barely get the ball off Xavi and Iniesta (or Deco and Touré!) in that CL tie in 2008. They weren't nobodies.

Good thing no one here said they would have been rubbish without him then, right? Fact though is that they became the legends they are under him and his system.

As for your post about young players getting better with age, that's true but how often have we also seen players not live up to their potential? Which is why the impact Pep had in the careers by putting them in a system that maximized their talents can't be downplayed, these players themselves say so.
And Xavi wasn't really a"young talent" when Pep arrived, he was already 28.

 

[Liver_bird]

People said the same about Poch. But more money => more expensive transfers => more ego. Look at Keita and Thiago, expensive or big-name players but none of them performed for Klopp.

Thiago was our best player in the run in last season key reason we even have CL football this season. Keitas issue is his body not his quality. Although I do think it’s partly how we evolved the style of the team which meant we no longer needed midfielders like him and Ox. He’d have been fine in our 17/18 team, I don’t expect much from him but I’m content to wait till the end of the season. It’s not like we have a lot of depth.

As for pep, tactically he’s adjusted since those drubbings, it’s one thing attacking a side like us when we’re just a solid CL side, it’s another when you’re in a title race and those points are invaluable. We’re also not like Klopps BVB side and that city side are best drilled defensive unit on the planet at the moment. They just don’t give up chances. I don’t think they have the best individual defenders although they’re not awful or anything.

Edit: We did get them in our title winning season though.

 

[Andersonson]

I reckon Joe Bloggs on RedCafe could beat Klopp with five hundred zillion million quid to spend. Also Joe Bloggs from RedCafe might not be bald, which is an added bonus.

Eyh! Being bald is a gift from god

 

[Dumbstar]

Mate, what the actual feck?

He said Joe Bloggs. Not Mr Pigeon. Untangle your knickers.

 

[TwoSheds]

Good thing no one here said they would have been rubbish without him then, right? Fact though is that they became the legends they are under him and his system.

As for your post about young players getting better with age, that's true but how often have we also seen players not live up to their potential? Which is why the impact Pep had in the careers by putting them in a system that maximized their talents can't be downplayed, these players themselves say so.
And Xavi wasn't really a"young talent" when Pep arrived, he was already 28.

He was already world class at 28, I'd be shocked if you could have found anybody who would have disputed it. Midfielders generally peak about 27-30, Xavi did exactly that. I don't know why we're even having this debate if we both agree he was already a great player and Pep probably improved him.

 

[Hansi Fick]

I reckon Joe Bloggs on RedCafe could beat Klopp with five hundred zillion million quid to spend. Also Joe Bloggs from RedCafe might not be bald, which is an added bonus.

Joe Bloggs' record with his five hundred zillion million quid team vs Klopp's Liverpool is actually pretty decent - 4 draws, 2 defeats and indeed, even one win in the FA Cup

 

[footballistic orgasm]

He was already world class at 28, I'd be shocked if you could have found anybody who would have disputed it. Midfielders generally peak about 27-30, Xavi did exactly that. I don't know why we're even having this debate if we both agree he was already a great player and Pep probably improved him.

He was a very good player but wasn't considered world-class, Deco for example who played the same position as well as him, was rated higher than him both by the coach as well as many football fans.

 

[Tyrion]

Never ceases to amaze me how Utd fans can be this clueless when the truth smacks them on their head every fkin week

It's an exaggeration but Peps spending means an equal record with Klopp is an impressive achievement for Klopp. Like a striker for Everton outscoring Lukaku this season.

 

[Niemans]

SAF had issues with Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi, not necessarily Pep.

In the second final he made a very bad tactical approach in my opinion.
He placed Rooney in the AMF position and Chicharito as a striker, both between the defense and the Barcelona midfield and there Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets played very easily. That Barcelona had to be defended with all the players helping in defensive positions with Rooney marking Busquets when Barcelona had the ball among other things.

 

[Dancfc]

Is it a coincidence that Klopp record against Pep has got weaker since Liverpool have started fighting City for the title?

Pre 18/19 when Liverpool were miles off the pace over 38 games they had a bit of a fearless approach to City clashes and got their rewards in them but since they've become a team expected to challenge City for the title they've beaten them once in 7 attempts.

Have the games turning into genuine 6 pointers made Klopp more cautious and accepting of a draw against City compared to before when these games were almost a free hit for Liverpool?

 

[Revan]

In the second final he made a very bad tactical approach in my opinion.
He placed Rooney in the AMF position and Chicharito as a striker, both between the defense and the Barcelona midfield and there Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets played very easily. That Barcelona had to be defended with all the players helping in defensive positions with Rooney marking Busquets when Barcelona had the ball among other things.

He also did tactical mistakes in the first one. Anderson started but Scholes was in the bench, and Giggs started despite that he still was not converted to a midfielder.

 

[Revan]

He was a very good player but wasn't considered world-class, Deco for example who played the same position as well as him, was rated higher than him both by the coach as well as many football fans.

That’s true although he won the best player award in Euro 2008, just before Pep became his manager.

 

[TwoSheds]

He was a very good player but wasn't considered world-class, Deco for example who played the same position as well as him, was rated higher than him both by the coach as well as many football fans.

Ok well not by most of the folks on redcafé as I remember. Maybe we're all amazing judges of footballers on here

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/xavi.199839/

 

[DoneDaDa]

Is it a coincidence that Klopp record against Pep has got weaker since Liverpool have started fighting City for the title?

Pre 18/19 when Liverpool were miles off the pace over 38 games they had a bit of a fearless approach to City clashes and got their rewards in them but since they've become a team expected to challenge City for the title they've beaten them once in 7 attempts.

Have the games turning into genuine 6 pointers made Klopp more cautious and accepting of a draw against City compared to before when these games were almost a free hit for Liverpool?

Naw it's been more to do with Pep getting tactically better against Klopp and has been doing a good job and shutting them down. Last 3 games before this City had less possession because Pep started giving more possession to Pool even the last game they had only 51%. They've attacked in 4-3-3 but defended in 4-4-2 making it harder to break them down plus no Highline to exploit.