Pound for pound Klopp is superior. He didn't need the best players to win or take on better squad of Guardiola in straight fight.
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Guardiola vs Klopp
- Thread starter Infordin
- Start date
Pochettino.
These two managers mostly spend to get their success. Give Big Sam Van Dijk, De Bryune, Aguero, Sterling, Alison, Salah and he would be a successful manager. Pochettino on the other hand built his own success and didn’t need to be banked-roll to continuously get in top four and get in the finals of the champions league. Pep and Klopp would struggle to take a team like Everton and place them in the champions league finals.
These two managers mostly spend to get their success. Give Big Sam Van Dijk, De Bryune, Aguero, Sterling, Alison, Salah and he would be a successful manager. Pochettino on the other hand built his own success and didn’t need to be banked-roll to continuously get in top four and get in the finals of the champions league. Pep and Klopp would struggle to take a team like Everton and place them in the champions league finals.
Pep for me. The way his teams play football, the way they move the ball around, there’s nothing quite like it. Watching his Barcelona team was like art. There may be other things to consider, like budgets and what not, and they are all valid points to raise, but for me Pep wins simply because of how magical the football his teams’ can play is. Second favorite manager ever after Sir Alex.
I've heard you say this before and I'm still as shocked every time I see you say it. I don't understand how anyone can think Pochettino is better than Klopp. As for the last paragraph in your post, you forgot what Klopp did with Dortmund? How much did he spend there?
Q, Who is the strongest Avenger, Hulk or Thor?
A, Falcon.
That's the same as Poch being mentioned in this thread.
A, Falcon.
That's the same as Poch being mentioned in this thread.
interesting analogyDortmund is similar to Ajax. There is really not much going on in their league so they can focus more on the champions league. So his success their is almost equivalent to Pochettino success in England. When he won the league, his champion league performance was terrible, so it is obvious that he couldn’t juggle two balls at the same time. Pochettino on the other hand showed that he can in a more competitive league. When Pochettino outspends his rivals many people eyes will open and there will be no doubt who the best manager in football is.
Pound for pound the best manager in the world is Sheffield United's manager
To be fair I think Guardiola himself said that his system would not work if the players aren't good enough. It's not just about proactive football — aside from the possession and spatial controlling system his attackers have to able to beat the opponent one on one consistently (the whole point of the system is to leave his best attackers in favourable one on one situations against the opponents).
I mean I can kinda understand people saying that Klopp is better, but Klopp's career puts them to shame? The man has won 2 league titles, 1 CL and one cup. By that logic Ranieri winning the title with Leicester puts Klopp, Pep, Mourinho, Fergie and Michels to shame as well (he had not only won the league, but built a good side by the way).
And it's not like Liverpool's own resources are lacking. They had been one of the most profitable clubs in the world despite their lack of success because of the fanbase and English TV-contracts.
Tottenham finished 4th with 13 losses only 1 point ahead of Arsenal. He is incredibly lucky that ourselves and Arsenal are so shit or he would have fecked it up in the end. I do think he would do better if he was actually backed properly but you are making it sound like Poch who hasn't won a single thing in his career is some copy of SAF or something. I've never seen someone so affectionate about a rival manager as you with Poch. It confuses me.
Depends what you want to judge them on because it's not black and white.
Trophys? Pep wins
Whose teams play better football? Flip a coin, both amazing. Comes down to personal preference.
Difficulty of their respective jobs? Klopp wins here.
Undoubtedly the 2 best managers on the planet at the moment.
I may be biased, but I'd say Klopp edges it. Only because I think pep would struggle with a club that needs a big rebuild or doesnt have major resources. Whereas I think klopp would do just fine at a club with unlimited resources.
Trophys? Pep wins
Whose teams play better football? Flip a coin, both amazing. Comes down to personal preference.
Difficulty of their respective jobs? Klopp wins here.
Undoubtedly the 2 best managers on the planet at the moment.
I may be biased, but I'd say Klopp edges it. Only because I think pep would struggle with a club that needs a big rebuild or doesnt have major resources. Whereas I think klopp would do just fine at a club with unlimited resources.
This guy is like Hodor from Game of thrones only with a different catchphrase.
You think Klopp played for 35% possesion? They were out played but got a early lead and hung on before the late sealer. More Fergie if anything. (pains me to say but I've like his style for a long time)
Poch wasn't even in discussion in this thread, but I feel like this is worthy of /thread responses.
The bold was just envious hyperbole. The more objective way to say it would be he maximized the return on resources spent across his career better than Mourinho or Guardiola or other managers of the 2010s while also developing players. He has consistently achieved results above the par for the resource level. And in addition to winning the CL he got both Dortmund and Liverpool to another CL final. We have to look where Dortmund was when he took them over and how far he brought them and its hard to imagine any other manager being able to bring Liverpool from the Brendan era to winning the CL. Liverpool could very well be where Arsenal is now had they not hired Klopp.
The difference between him and a Ranieri is that Klopp's career follows a very clear upward progression where he seems to just keep improving little by little every year. For me I compare that to Wenger where it simply felt Wenger was stagnant for 10 years at least and not growing as a manager whereas we can almost see the progression with Klopp. For Pep and Jose to me their best work was both at the start of their careers (Porto and 1st Barca CL) and they never really improved upon that work. To me Klopp looks more like a Ferguson or Santana where they keep growing all throughout their career.
Is that a skill unique to the best footballers only? Beating a man happens all the way down to League 2.
Klopp doesn't need to spend so much to win. Klopp spent £5M to win the league with Dortmund.He signed Lewandowski for £3M, Hummels for £2.94M, Gundogan for £3.85M, Kagawa almost on a free and made them what they were. He is a good trainer first of all other things. He trains and improves players immeasurably. Robertson, Arnold, Mane, Firmino and Matip were nowhere near that level before Klopp.
reminds me of Wenger versus Fergie debates in the nineties before heart won over philosophy.That is the same excuse some fans keeps saying that their team were shit. When in reality, it is the level of competitiveness in the premier league that doesn’t make any game a stroll in the park. It is not luck that Spurs got top four, they were simply better than the team below them throughout the season after spending absolutely nothing on his team.Tottenham finished 4th with 13 losses only 1 point ahead of Arsenal. He is incredibly lucky that ourselves and Arsenal are so shit or he would have fecked it up in the end. I do think he would do better if he was actually backed properly but you are making it sound like Poch who hasn't won a single thing in his career is some copy of SAF or something. I've never seen someone so affectionate about a rival manager as you with Poch. It confuses me.
If you have great insight like me when it comes to football, you would understand how good a manager like Pochettino is. I never stated he was like Sir Alex, even though it has been reported that Sir Alex would prefer United get Pochettino over Ole. I m not affectionate, just in awe towards the work he has done at Spurs. I appreciate fantastic, once in a lifetime type of manager regardless of who they are.
Sounds like he does a good job trying to imitate Pochettino. But I have had this argument before, the German league is less competitive than the premier league and if Bayern has an off season, which they had when he won the league because they were heavily invested in the champions league, then it opens the door for a decent team to win the league. That Dortmund team that won the league was just that, a decent team who was poor in the champions league. As Rummenigge and others experts as noted, Bayern would win the league if they weren’t so focused on the champions league that term. That result was as impressive as Spurs coming second in the league.
He signed Lewandowski for £3M, Hummels for £2.94M, Gundogan for £3.85M, Kagawa almost on a free and made them what they were. He is a good trainer first of all other things. He trains and improves players immeasurably. Robertson, Arnold, Mane, Firmino and Matip were nowhere near that level before Klopp.
These two managers will ensure it's a two horse race again for the title next season. Both world class.
Pochettino is also superb, and with the likelihood of actual investment in the squad at Spurs this summer, it's hard to see them dropping out of the top 4.
That leaves a battle for the 4th spot between United, Chelsea, and Arsenal. Solskjaer is unproven and has a big summer ahead in terms of recruitment. Emery is a Europa League level manager with a very unbalanced squad and not much money to spend. Chelsea's appointment to replace Sarri will play a big part. They of course will have a transfer ban but still have the basis of a good squad with some of the young players coming through.
Pochettino is also superb, and with the likelihood of actual investment in the squad at Spurs this summer, it's hard to see them dropping out of the top 4.
That leaves a battle for the 4th spot between United, Chelsea, and Arsenal. Solskjaer is unproven and has a big summer ahead in terms of recruitment. Emery is a Europa League level manager with a very unbalanced squad and not much money to spend. Chelsea's appointment to replace Sarri will play a big part. They of course will have a transfer ban but still have the basis of a good squad with some of the young players coming through.
People cite the funds thing in JK's favour however as amazing as Klopp has done at Liverpool he still needed to break records on a defender and keeper alongside £90m on two midfielders to truly elevate them from a top 4 challenging team capable of a cup run to what we see today.
As early as the early part of last season (17/18) there was still major doubts over whether Klopp would succeed.
As early as the early part of last season (17/18) there was still major doubts over whether Klopp would succeed.
It is amazing isn’t???? Without those signings, no way Klopp would have won the champions league let alone challenge city for the title.
It makes Pochettino argument even more strong in this thread. I hope he breaks world record for a midfielder and a defender this summer and we can judge him properly towards what he can accomplish.
Give it a rest will ya.
He can do this! He has bullets in hands, Son and Erickson can simply be 200m for both two players. Just like Liverpool selling Coutinho and getting other in.
And before those transfers he had his success at Dortmund, made two finals with basically Rodgers' squad and got to the final last season. His tactical approach and his motivational skills allow him to sometimes subsitute individual quality with a cohesive collective effort. On the other hand Guardiola is more ambitious tactically and - if given the right players - can create greater dominance.
Pep is the better manager. Absurdly successful consistently over a decade with a more dominant football system. Klopp is probably elevating his players more, but that does have to do with his suitability to (minor) underdogs. It's harder to exceed expectations at City than it is at Liverpool. At Liverpool even Rodgers nearly did what people believed was impossible. Just like it would have been harder for him to surprise people at Bayern as opposed to Dortmund. So while Klopp does the whole raising the level brilliantly, it is not enough to be considered at par with a guy that's won bazillion trophies over the last decade. Presently Klopp is better than Mourinho but on this account he is obviously far behind Jose in general.
You have to combine dribbling with tactical intelligence and workrate — there aren't many footballers that are this complete at the lower level. Henry at Monaco is a good example — of course he's not close to Pep in terms of managing, but he had tried to install Pep's system in a team where players weren't good enough and almost managed to get his team relegated.
I swear some of you lot thinks you're a football Keynes with all these weird opinion.
Guardiola > Klopp
It's clear as day.
Guardiola > Klopp
It's clear as day.
Klopp easily, although they've been working on very different circumstances so it's more about what people value most. Aside from their resources at their disposal I also prefer Klopp's brand of football.
Klopp has never managed a top team right off the bat that has money, while Pep has and therefore gets the benefit of the doubt for that scenario. Klopp's style could work for a team of superstars too. Ironically the pinnacle of his system that also had the world-class players to match Pep's teams was our Bayern team in 2013 under Heynckes.
Guardiola is the better manager (he’s got the medals and records to prove it), but I know who I’d rather have manage my club if I was an owner and play for if I was a player. Personality-wise it’s no contest. That clip of Klopp asking after the CL final “Where are the drinks?”
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/mario-gotze-danke-dortmund
Also this Players Tribune article by Gotze sheds light into the cheeky fecker’s personality.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/mario-gotze-danke-dortmund
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Can someone please tell me why truly great managers don't challenge themselves more? Where's the fun in managing a side that wins all the time? Why doesn't Pep go to, I don't know, maybe West Ham? Surely Pep isn't just about records? Surely he isn't afraid of being "forgotten"?
Five sentences, five questions...?
Five sentences, five questions...?
It was only a year ago everyone was calling Klopp a bottler...
Depends what you're starting with.
Guardiola has proven incapable of success without anything other than the perfect setup, but when he does have that he is unbeatable. The levels he achieves are almost unheard of in football.
Klopp has built two teams from a fairly low bar now. He might not be able to get that last 1 or 2% of performance like Pep can but it still makes him a better manager for me.
Guardiola has proven incapable of success without anything other than the perfect setup, but when he does have that he is unbeatable. The levels he achieves are almost unheard of in football.
Klopp has built two teams from a fairly low bar now. He might not be able to get that last 1 or 2% of performance like Pep can but it still makes him a better manager for me.
It’s a United forum though ain’t it? How could losing to Madrid in the CL final be considered bottling? Hating on Klopp was a favorite pastime on here to make us slightly less depressed about our own club’s failures.