Has political correctness actually gone mad?

[fergieisold]

I just want to point out that this

which was what drew out accusations of bigotry, is a bigoted statement, and there's nothing wrong with calling it out as such. If we ignore the fact that it's completely fecking disgusting to call someone's mental health into question based on so little, you still have the issue of trans people being labeled as mentally ill by bigots, despite science disagreeing with them. It's a very convenient excuse to be able to ignore them and their wishes, and to get angry when someone decides to respect them. Notice how he continuously tries to make it as big of a problem as possible? Same reason; To justify getting angry about it.

You very clearly haven't a clue about gender fluidity nor multiple personality disorder, so I'm completely stumped as to why you ever thought you could wade into it, with your obvious hostility towards the subject, and come out looking like anything but a bigot? It's like your posts were designed for that express purpose.

We can conclusively say that being gender fluid is, by itself, not a sign of a mental disorder, and questioning someone's mental health based on the single fact that they identify as such is revolting.

I think one of the issues with being Gender fluid is then the struggle to try and port it onto existing norms like being male or female. Surely there's a better way to deal with this than having two names and switching between genders as if it is black and white.

I'd also agree that it's one thing to want to examine mental health disorders and the roll they play in these issues and it is another to just point and declare they must be mentally ill!

 

[Rudie]

IYou very clearly haven't a clue about gender fluidity nor multiple personality disorder, so I'm completely stumped as to why you ever thought you could wade into it, with your obvious hostility towards the subject, and come out looking like anything but a bigot? It's like your posts were designed for that express purpose.

And neither do you it seems.

I think one of the issues with being Gender fluid is then the struggle to try and port it onto existing norms like being male or female. Surely there's a better way to deal with this than having two names and switching between genders as if it is black and white.

I'd also agree that it's one thing to want to examine mental health disorders and the roll they play in these issues and it is another to just point and declare they must be mentally ill!

One of the biggest issues about gender fluidity is the fact that most of the time it's driven by autogynephilia, just look at the Jessica Yaniv case in Canada where self identification laws mean these individuals get protection when they walk into beauty salons and demand their balls get waxed because the salon offers Women's waxing services. This means most trans girls are subjected and tared with a brush because Malcolm likes to stick a dress on and visit the girls changing rooms. Protection is in place to distinguish real gender dysphoria from being a perverse fetish and those safe guards need to remain in place otherwise we open a can of worms. A world where a guy on a stag do wearing a wig and getting into a fight can claim a hate crime because at that moment he was identifying as a woman!

Trans protection and equality should be afforded to those who are seeking medical intervention only to help with dysphoria, not those suffering from liking to have a quick hand shank in the ladies wearing a pair of tights.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/27/male-genitalia-week-in-patriarchy-women

 

[Rudie]

You don't think people working there will be hugely pressured to conform? Or at least absolutely feel they have to do so.

The Met officer quoted talks about the wasted resources. They're ok dedicating time and money to somebody supposedly waking up every morning a new gender. Should be dedicating resources to getting the person mental help.

This is not a bigoted statement , it's a reality. I know of one situation whereby a trans woman with a Police Officer husband was harassed because she took exception to fetishists calling transgender people "sissys" and "chicks with d...", she complained to their work as it was clear who they worked for and because of this they went to the police claiming transphobia and harassment themselves! They started portraying as transgender under the impression that current law would protect them from the transphobic remarks they themselves had made!

The police broke the law in regards to their investigation into the incident, mainly the gender recognition act, and now the officer handling the case is up on a disciplinary all because he was too afraid to question whether or not the accusers were actually transgender.

The police do waste time and are vastly ill-equipped to handle and resolve cases such as the above. The real victim in this was the Trans Woman herself who endured harassment not only from the accusers but also the police who were being used as a tool by these people.

Also see: https://www.out.com/fashion/2019/7/28/model-pretended-she-was-trans-avoid-being-called-transphobic

 

[balaks]

I agree that we should take away maternity leave. Mothers should get 1 week and then have to find a job. We can give them easy jobs like nurse or teacher but a job nonetheless.

Surely you cannot be serious?? You would give a mother a job? Who is going to do the house work!?

 

[Halftrack]

I think one of the issues with being Gender fluid is then the struggle to try and port it onto existing norms like being male or female. Surely there's a better way to deal with this than having two names and switching between genders as if it is black and white.

I'd also agree that it's one thing to want to examine mental health disorders and the roll they play in these issues and it is another to just point and declare they must be mentally ill!

Genderfluid generally don't switch between genders as such, it's more of a scale to them. Some days, they feel more one than the other, and will put on clothes that match how they feel that particular day. Having two names isn't the norm, though some do. Based on those I've read about or talked to, I didn't get the impression that they'd react with hostility to being called the wrong name or addressed with the wrong pronouns, at least not as long as there was no malicious intent. By and large, I think the best solution is to treat them with dignity and respect, same as everyone else.

As for mental health issues, gender dysphoria is not a disorder, and if a trans person suffers from a disorder, it's unlikely to be a result of (or the cause for) them being trans. As for gender dysphoria itself, the best and most effective treatment is acceptance and being allowed to transition and be who they are.

And neither do you it seems.

I can comfortably say that I know a lot more than you.

One of the biggest issues about gender fluidity is the fact that most of the time it's driven by autogynephilia, just look at the Jessica Yaniv case in Canada where self identification laws mean these individuals get protection when they walk into beauty salons and demand their balls get waxed because the salon offers Women's waxing services. This means most trans girls are subjected and tared with a brush because Malcolm likes to stick a dress on and visit the girls changing rooms. Protection is in place to distinguish real gender dysphoria from being a perverse fetish and those safe guards need to remain in place otherwise we open a can of worms. A world where a guy on a stag do wearing a wig and getting into a fight can claim a hate crime because at that moment he was identifying as a woman!

Trans protection and equality should be afforded to those who are seeking medical intervention only to help with dysphoria, not those suffering from liking to have a quick hand shank in the ladies wearing a pair of tights.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/27/male-genitalia-week-in-patriarchy-women

Gender dysphoria and being trans are two different things. It's perfectly possible for someone to be trans with out suffering from gender dysphoria (though most who are trans suffer from it at some point). For some it goes away with transitioning, others continue to struggle with it. A lot of it has to do with their ability to reach their goals, so to speak (one girl I know struggled a lot because the hormones had little to no effect on the size of her breasts, meaning she would need surgery to get reach her goal). The feedback they receive from the wider society also plays a role. The better you pass for a member of your gender, the more likely you are to be treated as such, and the less likely you are to receive negative comments.

As for the bolded part: Are you fecking kidding me? Firstly, autogynephilia is a diagnosis invented by a self-important asshat, whose views on transgenders are not shared by the wider scientific community. Secondly, suggesting that the majority that identify as genderfluid do so because they fetishise women to the point of wanting to be one is fecking moronic, and incredibly fecking insulting. The studies that exist suggests that the proportion of men to women identifying as such is roughly equal, so it's nigh on impossible for it to be driven by "autogynephilia" most of the time.

The suggestion that we have a problem with men claiming to be women to creep in women's toilets or changing rooms is (aside from being transphobes' go-to argument for denying trans persons their rights) moronic, and not supported by statistics. In the twelve US states where trans rights are protected (meaning, you know, that they are entitled to use restrooms corresponding to the gender they identify as), there hasn't been a single reported instance of that occurring. It's akin to arguing against believing women who accuse men of sexual harassment, because they might be lying to hurt/punish said men.

As for cis pretending to be trans to do something illegal/get away with having done or said something despicable or illegal, I don't think there's a perfect solution. I know that making life harder for trans persons is not it, though.

 

[Rudie]

I can comfortably say that I know a lot more than you.

How so if you don't mind me asking? This will be entertaining.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's politically correct and en vogue right now to condemn cars and specifically bigger cars due to the hot (no pun intented) climate change topic. Ever since the Green Party is polling around 25 % in Germany (for years they were a 8 - 10 % party), politicians and media have framed their narratives around that topic. Even a simple car incident has turned into a political debate about big evil SUVs, including climate debate. If a politician came out right now that he owned a private Porsche SUV, media would roast him. The politically correct way to move from point A to B is by public transportation, by bike or with an electric car at most.

Think it has to do with the topic.

To be fair, buying a big SUV to drive around narrow city streets is fecking stupid. So if the end result is less SUV’s on the streets then that’s all good.

Apart from anything else any SUV vs pedestrian (especially children) accident is far more likely to result in serious injury/death than with sensible sized cars. So I would ban the horrible things on this basis alone. Never mind global warming.

 

[Halftrack]

How so if you don't mind me asking? This will be entertaining.

It's all in my previous post.

 

[Rudie]

It's all in my previous post.

So you've talked to some people who are non binary? Comfortable you said? Still think that?

 

[fergieisold]

Genderfluid generally don't switch between genders as such, it's more of a scale to them. Some days, they feel more one than the other, and will put on clothes that match how they feel that particular day. Having two names isn't the norm, though some do. Based on those I've read about or talked to, I didn't get the impression that they'd react with hostility to being called the wrong name or addressed with the wrong pronouns, at least not as long as there was no malicious intent. By and large, I think the best solution is to treat them with dignity and respect, same as everyone else.

Yeh, that's what I was getting at. It isn't black and white. The solution for me isn't to have two names and declaring the switch on any given day.

 

[fergieisold]

Are today's gender fluid people just yesterdays Tom Boys and Camp men?

 

[Rudie]

I can comfortably say that I know a lot more than you.


The suggestion that we have a problem with men claiming to be women to creep in women's toilets or changing rooms is (aside from being transphobes' go-to argument for denying trans persons their rights) moronic, and not supported by statistics..

so you are telling a transgendered person that they are transphobic? Let me get this straight, you are telling me you know more than myself?

This is me by the way.

Are you really saying the above? That you know more about being transgender than I myself?

 

[Rudie]

Awaits reply and confirmation that indeed, as this thread has alluded to, political correctness has gone mad.

Woke has indeed, ate itself.

 

[Halftrack]

so you are telling a transgendered person that they are transphobic? Let me get this straight, you are telling me you know more than myself?

This is me by the way. Are you really saying the above? That you know more about being transgender than I myself?

https://www.instagram.com/candifluffy/

No, I very clearly did not, I said that's it's the transphobes go-to. Like I said, there is little evidence to support it, and it's mostly used for fear-mongering by people who try to deny those who are trans their rights.

I'll happily concede that my knowledge on what it's like being transgendered is dwarfed by yours. That's a given.

However, when someone shows up and starts using Ray Blanchard's typology and making claims not supported by facts and statistics, I'm going to disagree with them, transgendered or not. And it's not like you being transgendered makes your claim that most genderfluids are driven by (fecking hell) autogynephilia any less disgusting. (Do note that this is not me denying the existence of such people, this is me rejecting the notion that this is common, never mind that it applies to most of them.)

I'm also correct on gender dysphoria vs. transgender, so there.

Yeh, that's what I was getting at. It isn't black and white. The solution for me isn't to have two names and declaring the switch on any given day.

As I said, though, two names isn't the norm. Most commonly, they have one name, and regardless of what gender they feel more like on any particular day, you address them as they/them. So in most cases, you'll have one name to remember, and one set of pronouns to use, same as with everyone else.

 

[Rudie]

No, I very clearly did not, I said that's it's the transphobes go-to. Like I said, there is little evidence to support it, and it's mostly used for fear-mongering by people who try to deny those who are trans their rights.

I'll happily concede that my knowledge on what it's like being transgendered is dwarfed by yours. That's a given.

However, when someone shows up and starts using Ray Blanchard's typology and making claims not supported by facts and statistics, I'm going to disagree with them, transgendered or not. And it's not like you being transgendered makes your claim that most genderfluids are driven by (fecking hell) autogynephilia any less disgusting. (Do note that this is not me denying the existence of such people, this is me rejecting the notion that this is common, never mind that it applies to most of them.)

I'm also correct on gender dysphoria vs. transgender, so there.

So there! Haha. Wow the caf never changes. Have fun arguing children.

 

[Halftrack]

So there! Haha. Wow the caf never changes. Have fun arguing children.

You haven't actually engaged with anything I've written, so I'm not sure you've qualified to use the "I'm not going to waste my time arguing with children" parting shot.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that a woman shouldn't be forced to wax a penis and/or a scrotum. I also agree that if your laws that are supposed to protect the transgendered allow someone to avoid punishment by claiming to be trans, then something needs to be done.

 

[decorativeed]

It's politically correct and en vogue right now to condemn cars and specifically bigger cars due to the hot (no pun intented) climate change topic. Ever since the Green Party is polling around 25 % in Germany (for years they were a 8 - 10 % party), politicians and media have framed their narratives around that topic. Even a simple car incident has turned into a political debate about big evil SUVs, including climate debate. If a politician came out right now that he owned a private Porsche SUV, media would roast him. The politically correct way to move from point A to B is by public transportation, by bike or with an electric car at most.

Think it has to do with the topic.

You don't seem to understand what political correctness means.

 

[decorativeed]

A professor at a world-famous university refuses to hire any women who aren't Asian, since they would naturally not be able to keep up with the rigorous maths his research needs. Nobody complains (including the Asian women who get in and then get told that they're in because they're Asian) because it would jeopardise their own docorate, relationship with the university, and their future career before it has started.

*Asian means East Asia, not India, etc. So China, Japan, and Korea.

Sounds suspiciously 'made up' or if not, subject to a discrimination case.

 

[villain]

Are today's gender fluid people just yesterdays Tom Boys and Camp men?

On a simple level, this can apply to some but isn't necessarily the rule to be used for all.

Gender is a construct, society has dictated what it is to be feminine or masculine - anyone who doesn't conform to those constructs can be deemed as tom boys, camp, effeminate etc

But there's a scale, for example; I wouldn't call myself feminine if we were to go by what society describes femininity as - all my childhood I was a tom boy who was into sports, baggy clothes, playing army in the dirt and didn't care for feminine clothes or toys
However, these days I enjoy getting my nails done, hair done, wearing make-up & getting glammed up on nights out etc so I would conform more to what society deems is acceptable for a 'woman' to act/wear/be like.
Therefore I would say I fall on the scale depending on how I feel or the environment i'm in - technically that's gender-fluid even though it differs to the experience of the police officer in the article. I don't have 2 sets of names, I don't have different pronouns - this is just me.

Feels weird having to say this so openly, but I feel like it's necessary for people to understand just how common things like gender fluidity is, and it's not because of some mental disorder.

 

[fergieisold]

On a simple level, this can apply to some but isn't necessarily the rule to be used for all.

Gender is a construct, society has dictated what it is to be feminine or masculine - anyone who doesn't conform to those constructs can be deemed as tom boys, camp, effeminate etc

But there's a scale, for example; I wouldn't call myself feminine if we were to go by what society describes femininity as - all my childhood I was a tom boy who was into sports, baggy clothes, playing army in the dirt and didn't care for feminine clothes or toys
However, these days I enjoy getting my nails done, hair done, wearing make-up & getting glammed up on nights out etc so I would conform more to what society deems is acceptable for a 'woman' to act/wear/be like.
Therefore I would say I fall on the scale depending on how I feel or the environment i'm in - technically that's gender-fluid even though it differs to the experience of the police officer in the article. I don't have 2 sets of names, I don't have different pronouns - this is just me.

Feels weird having to say this so openly, but I feel like it's necessary for people to understand just how common things like gender fluidity is, and it's not because of some mental disorder.

One worry I would have particularly with younger people is being pigeon holed into one of a growing list of attempted 'gender' descriptions. I remember as a younger boy I used to hang around with only girls as I didn't get on with guys. My parents even asked me if I was gay at one point! If I were young now I worry I'd be cajoled into some strange new gender group.

 

[Wibble]

One worry I would have particularly with younger people is being pigeon holed into one of a growing list of attempted 'gender' descriptions. I remember as a younger boy I used to hang around with only girls as I didn't get on with guys. My parents even asked me if I was gay at one point! If I were young now I worry I'd be cajoled into some strange new gender group.

That really isn't how it works.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

This thread is a complete nightmare.

 

[fergieisold]

That really isn't how it works.

What isn't how it works?

 

[Shamwow]

Is the police officer that we have been talking about doing any of these things @Rudie ? Seems like you are using a very small amount of extreme examples and hypotheticals to tar a demographic that you don't like with the same brush.

 

[Wibble]

What isn't how it works?

Because you don't get cajoled into being transgender any more than being gay is an optlonal fashion statement.

 

[Halftrack]

Is the police officer that we have been talking about doing any of these things @Rudie ? Seems like you are using a very small amount of extreme examples and hypotheticals to tar a demographic that you don't like with the same brush.

I've seen trans persons gatekeep, and declare themselves real transgendered, as opposed to someone who hasn't undegone GRS, or a transwoman who likes other women, but I've never engaged with one. I was kind of shocked when she said she was transgendered, given the deluge of bunk science and bigotry directed at other members of the trans community.

What isn't how it works?

You aren't slotted into a gender category based on how you behave. For a kid to be identified as anything but their natal gender, they'd have to actually speak to a child psychologist and express that they don't identify with it. Then follows even more talks with the psychologist, because they have to ascertain that it's not just a phase, and that it's how they really feel.

If your worry is that parents wanting to have a 'unique' kid would pressure their child into identifying as something that they're not, then that's exceptionally rare, and would probably be caught be aforementioned child psychologist.

 

[fergieisold]

Because you don't get cajoled into being transgender any more than being gay is an optlonal fashion statement.

OK, cajoled maybe the wrong word. But I'm unconvinced there is no societal contribution to being transgender, especially when we're talking about young children. The same goes for being gay actually, it is a mix of predisposition and environmental factors. I was talking to my sister and she really wanted to be a boy when she was young, where would that leave her now?

 

[fergieisold]

I've seen trans persons gatekeep, and declare themselves real transgendered, as opposed to someone who hasn't undegone GRS, or a transwoman who likes other women, but I've never engaged with one. I was kind of shocked when she said she was transgendered, given the deluge of bunk science and bigotry directed at other members of the trans community.

You aren't slotted into a gender category based on how you behave. For a kid to be identified as anything but their natal gender, they'd have to actually speak to a child psychologist and express that they don't identify with it. Then follows even more talks with the psychologist, because they have to ascertain that it's not just a phase, and that it's how they really feel.

If your worry is that parents wanting to have a 'unique' kid would pressure their child into identifying as something that they're not, then that's exceptionally rare, and would probably be caught be aforementioned child psychologist.

Ok, well that partly answers the question about my sister in my previous comment!

 

[Halftrack]

Yes, as a trans person I'm "gate keeping", a man is claiming a transgendered woman is gate keeping, kinda like someone telling a black person they can't be offended by racists. Oh and my second example was about me, I'm that transgender woman.

Incredible, trans politics on a football forum was bound to be carcrash. And actually, transitioning for autogynephilic reasons is a valid treatment option for those suffering.

Ray Blanchard says transwomen who are attracted to other women are actually heterosexual men who fetishise the female body to the point of wanting to become one. To him, they aren't actually transgendered, it just so happens that his suggested treatment for their condition is the same as for "real" transgendered. If you can't wrap your head around why that doesn't fly, then I can't help you.

And your claim that the genderfluid are driven mostly by autogynephilia (which fails at the first hurdle, as they consist of a roughly equal proportion of men and women) is equally ludicrous, and still disgusting. Who the feck are you to define their identity and their motivations? You're literally claiming that most genderfluids are just men with a perverse fetish looking to have a quick hand shank in the ladies wearing a pair of tights. You are grossly generalising them (based on a false and frankly shocking assumption) and you're denying them their identity. That's gatekeeping, so kindly do one. (I mean, you literally have to be part of a group to gatekeep, so I'm unsure why you're baffled at the idea that you, a transwoman, would gatekeep the trans community. Especially after having tried to do just that).

By the way, do you know how Blanchard his conclusion on "autogynephilic" transwomen? By asking transwomen whether they had ever experienced arousal from donning women's clothing. Wow, rigorous. I'm sure no straight ciswoman has ever felt arousal at donning women's clothing, like some risque lingerie or something. That would be unthinkable.

 

[Shamwow]

I wasn't aware of Blaire white so did a bit of research and laughed at this:

In practice, White's videos either attack "SJW" YouTubers or defend antifeminist talking points or right-wing positions on trans issues and women's rights despite being trans and a woman herself. In short: Blaire White is the Milo Yiannopoulos of trans issues.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Blaire_White

From a wiki site so will take with a pinch of salt of course.

 

[Rudie]

And your claim that the genderfluid are driven mostly by autogynephilia (which fails at the first hurdle, as they consist of a roughly equal proportion of men and women) is equally ludicrous, and still disgusting. Who the feck are you to define their identity and their motivations? You're literally claiming that most genderfluids are just men with a perverse fetish looking to have a quick hand shank in the ladies wearing a pair of tights. You are grossly generalising them (based on a false and frankly shocking assumption) and you're denying them their identity. That's gatekeeping, so kindly do one. (I mean, you literally have to be part of a group to gatekeep, so I'm unsure why you're baffled at the idea that you, a transwoman, would gatekeep the trans community. Especially after having tried to do just that).

Oh please, you actually think that self identication should inherit the same protection as people who suffer real dysphoria!? People who can't go to the super market to get food, who can't use either bathroom so come close to wetting themselves, gender fluidity isn't based on any scientific fact. And most who claim to be fluid DO decide what to wear and where.

And yes some of these individuals do cause damage whilst being able to be afforded the luxery of going back to their male privileged lives and leave trans women who can't take simply off their wigs and makeup to be called sissys, traps, to get lewd messages unwarranted.

The fact is, you're on your high horse over something you've never experienced and it's laughable.

 

[Halftrack]

I'd suggest anyone who interested watching some of Blaire White, she and myself hold very similar views.

So you don't support lesbian transwomen either? And you think transwomen who don't pass don't deserve to be treated as women? Do you agree with her that non-binaries are "trans-retarded"? If the answer is yes to any of those, congratulations on gatekeeping. And also being a bigot.

And Halftrack acting like a gender psychologist is laughable.


Oh please, you actually think that self identication should inherit the same protection as people who suffer real dysphoria!? People who can't go to the super market to get food, who can't use either bathroom so come close to wetting themselves, gender fluidity isn't based on any scientific fact. And most who claim to be fluid DO decide what to wear and where.

And yes some of these individuals do cause damage whilst being able to be afforded the luxery of going back to their male privileged lives and leave trans women who can't take simply off their wigs and makeup to be called sissys, traps, to get lewd messages unwarranted.

The fact is, you're in your high horse over something you've never experienced and it's laughable.

Nah, I'm on a high horse because I'm not a bigot.

Also, non-binaries and genderfluids suffer from gender dysphoria as well (based on the diagnostic requirements set forth in DSM-V), but keep on thinking you're better and more deserving of fair and equal treatment than them.

 

[Rudie]

Oh I have a few trans lesbian friends who are in agreement, how many do you have?

Also regarding gender fluid non binary identities suffering dysphoria, I've never said they don't except the difference is separating those people from the fetishists is extremely hard to do, I mean we could make them all walk around with, ya know, yellow stars but look what happened last time.

Your username should have been Onetrack.

Again, what gives you any expert knowledge in the area of trans politics? I'm still waiting to hear about your credentials that you were so keen in bragging about. And "talking to a couple of people who identify as gender fluid" doesn't mean you now have a doctorate.

 

[Rudie]

I love how some people think that reading internet articles and theoretical work can replace practical experiences without listening and having reasonable debate. I'm still waiting to be called a TERF so I can call bingo!

Gender politics should be open to critical thinking without "bigot!" being shouted. That's from a transwoman.

 

[Shamwow]

I love how some people think that reading internet articles and theoretical work can replace practical experiences without listening and having reasonable debate. I'm still waiting to be called a TERF so I can call bingo!

Is the internet article wrong? I said I'm taking it with a pinch of salt so open to being educated on it.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

How can you focus on women in stem without realizing their gender?

You’re the one that wants to do that. Not me.

 

[shamans]

You’re the one that wants to do that. Not me.

You don't want to focus on women in STEM? Forget that, how can you set bodybuilding guidelines for men vs women. How can you make any of that without realizing gender? Throwing gender out of the discussion is like throwing out science.

 

[WensleyMU]

In my job we work with some of the world's biggest media advertising agencies on the planet. We help build their HR management systems and their learning management systems.

Some of the stuff the send us to convert to SCORMs would make those doubting how bonkers political correctness can be, change their views quickly. Staff are being conditioned and then these people are running some of the major as campaigns you see.

 

[Shamwow]

In my job we work with some of the world's biggest media advertising agencies on the planet. We help build their HR management systems and their learning management systems.

Some of the stuff the send us to convert to SCORMs would make those doubting how bonkers political correctness can be, change their views quickly. Staff are being conditioned and then these people are running some of the major as campaigns you see.

I've worked for 2 of the biggest and not sure what you're on about.

 

[WensleyMU]

I've worked for 2 of the biggest and not sure what you're on about.

Which two? And when? The LMS systems have been rebuilt and the content is all new as of July 2018.