We’re about to be in our 6th Cup Final in the past 4 years
Arsenal have been in.. how many? But they’re a better squad & have put in some meek but undeniable title pushes
Which is better?
That logic is undeniable because a season ticket won’t get you in to watch cup finals.
You’d trade the memories of that Lingard winner, our dramatic EL run to win with Mourinho and academy lads Garnacho and Mainoo sending us all mental at Wembley for the chance to say we came close to winning a PL title?Really? Well then why does everyone talk about the last decade as one of abject failure, decay and pain? We won five trophies during that span. Looking back, nobody seems to care much. We won the FA cup under LVG, then fired him and not many people think that was wrong. We won a Carabao and a EL under Mourinho, which doesn't prevent his reign from being widely regarded as a period where the club seriously lost its way. We won a Carabao and an FA Cup under EtH, which was great fun, but is anyone going to remember his period as anything other than a horrible failure?
If that decade had instead seen us consistently challenging for a PL title as closely as Arsenal has been doing for the past 3 seasons, do you think we'd be as negatively regarded as we are now? For my part, I'd trade all of those 5 trophies for just 3 or 4 seasons of being real title challengers.
Arsenal are a better team and in a better position moving forward but I'd much rather win trophies than finishing 2nd.
2nd into CL
Vs
Win Europa into CL
No brainer for me
How long you going back? Arsenal made endless FA Cup finals in Wenger's later years.
However you've always been better than them in Europe historically. When they were last in the Europa League they lost on penalties to Sporting Clube pretty early so they can't really say they'd win this competition with their eyes closed if they were in it.
If we could dictate finishing 6th or 7th and winning the CL next year, yes I would take that. Of course that just isn't how it works.Being in the semis of the CL and finishing 2nd, versus finishing ~16th and not being in the CL at all can't be seperated from how well the teams are performing and what level they're at.
Winning the EL is basically like winning the Championship, it feels great and maybe you can say you've been more successful than Arsenal that season but in reality you've only been more successful because you've been in a second tier competition, where the real prize was promotion to the first tier competition.
Finishing second in the PL and reaching the CL semis means you're performing and playing at a level that's not too far off the best in the world. Not being in the CL and finishing around the bottom of the PL means you're nowhere near.
If its just about winning trophies we might as well try to finish 6-7th next season and no higher so we can have a better chance of winning a European one.
I'd rather finish second because it means we're a much better team than we are now and are closer to the trophies that matter much more than the others.
We’re a cup team, we know that! We’re allowed to enjoy the cup wins though, it’s much better than finishing second and being the ‘Netflix of the premier league’.A lot of people here, who enjoy seeing United win cups, sign big-name players, and build a brittle disjointed side which is nowhere to be seen when the title shake-up arrives each season.
Propose we rename this thread ‘Was Ron Atkinson one of the club’s all-time greats?’
Essentially how I feel as well. The debate feels like one that's semantics. On the surface, winning Europa is better than not winning anything of course. But if you're asking "would you rather be in our position right now going into a final or in Arsenal's" then the answer seems obvious given the status of the two clubs/squads.Being in the semis of the CL and finishing 2nd, versus finishing ~16th and not being in the CL at all can't be seperated from how well the teams are performing and what level they're at.
Winning the EL is basically like winning the Championship, it feels great and maybe you can say you've been more successful than Arsenal that season but in reality you've only been more successful because you've been in a second tier competition, where the real prize was promotion to the first tier competition.
Finishing second in the PL and reaching the CL semis means you're performing and playing at a level that's not too far off the best in the world. Not being in the CL and finishing around the bottom of the PL means you're nowhere near.
If its just about winning trophies we might as well try to finish 6-7th next season and no higher so we can have a better chance of winning a European one.
I'd rather finish second because it means we're a much better team than we are now and are closer to the trophies that matter much more than the others.
Look at Mr social life over here.I attended three bbqs over last weekend and have only just started shitting normally again this morning after being so compacted with meat. Even I’ve had a better recent history than Arsenal.
If we could dictate finishing 6th or 7th and winning the CL next year, yes I would take that. Of course that just isn't how it works.
Do they?!hmmm, no. "fans only caring about trophies" argument doesn't really work for me if we're talking about EL (or Conference). those are the tournaments you end up playing when you're shit. besides, no one really cares about the trophy, people just want money and CL place that comes with it.
If we finished 6th, had a relatively good decent season, and then won Europa to get into the CL, I might understand. But winning Europa after finishing just above the relegation zone is embarrassing for this club and even winning that trophy cannot make it a better season than the clubs finishing in the Top 3/5 for me.Arsenal are a better team and in a better position moving forward but I'd much rather win trophies than finishing 2nd.
2nd into CL
Vs
Win Europa into CL
No brainer for me
Worked for ArsenalWe'd have a lot better chance if we were playing well enough to finish second in the league this year!
Worked for Arsenal
Again, this isn't the point of the conversation. Obviously we'd rather be higher in the league.They did have a much better chance of winning the league than us this season. And they have a much better chance next season too because they were good enough to finish second. That beats barely having a chance at all. Shall we stay 16th then and just try to win second rate trophies til the end of time, or do we want to improve, as Arsenal have done?
They reached CL semis and are on course to finish 2nd. It's as close as it gets to being competitive at the highest level. These "only trophies count at the end of the day" arguments somehow miss how much of a gap there is between PL/CL and second rate trophies like domestic cups or EL. The only reason we have a chance of winning the EL is because we were shit enough not to qualify for CL. It would like Leeds boasting about their achievements in the Championship.Worked for Arsenal
Yeah all that's cool and all. But I would rather win a trophy than finish 2nd.They reached CL semis and are on course to finish 2nd. It's as close as it gets to being competitive at the highest level. These "only trophies count at the end of the day" arguments somehow miss how much of a gap there is between PL/CL and second rate trophies like domestic cups or EL. The only reason we have a chance of winning the EL is because we were shit enough not to qualify for CL. It would like Leeds boasting about their achievements in the Championship.
