Have United lost their fear factor?

032Devil

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From: The Daily Mirror:

WE DON'T FEAR YOU, UNITED..


Manchester United no longer scare their European rivals.

Valencia take on United at Old Trafford tomorrow and their boss Unai Emery reckons the Premier League champions now look vulnerable without Cristiano Ronaldo and Carlos Tevez.

He said: "United have lost Ronaldo and Tevez and we're not scared of any of their players. Of course they are still strong and we are respectful of the likes of Wayne Rooney and Ryan Giggs. But we are Valencia and can beat anyone."

*****

Read this sort of thing a couple of times during the close season. Will this mean that (atleast) some clubs will approach us differently than they have before? Will they be more daring, attack minded and confident? And how much harder will it be in our attempt to retain our title and our position in the CL?
 

kleberson_

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I would personally love to see teams come out and attack us, sure, we have lost ronaldo but we will still be dangerous on the break
 

fatboy

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I actually think we're better off when teams come out to attack us, because they'll more space for us to attack.

In any case, the "fear factor" needs to be earned. If we succeed in beating other teams convincingly, they will start fearing us soon enough.
 

Tribec

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What comical journalism that is!! What else are we expecting to hear from opposition managers?

No one should be fearing anyone at this time of year anyway, as someone else has said fear/respect has to be earned, and that starts building from the first competative game.
 

Franq

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Maybe a little off topic, but this has been on my mind the last few days:

I have my doubts on some of the replacements brought in and some of the players that need to be replaced in the near future.... (Especially if you look at the fact that numerous players have been brought in the last 6 years and very little of them have made it to being a first team regular, if not sold already: bellion, kleberson, miller, djemba are the usuals suspects in this matter..)

First off, Owen may prove to be usefull as a squad rotation player, but i dont see him banging goals in every (other) game like ruud did (or whatever other succesful striker/target man in the past). (I do hope to be proved wrong by him ofcourse) Also, somehow i dont feel that Valencia is going to cut it at the highest level either, as for this Obertan fella, i mean...he never could earn a first team spot at a not so spectacular french side? Sound like Bellion mark II to me IMHO...) And we cant rely on up and coming talents Macheda or Wellbeck just yet either... so yeah, i do feel we lost quite a bit of quality upfront...

Furthermore, the game is supposed to be won in midfield, so who's going to win it for us? We cant possible rely on two players of around or over 35years of age to boss the midfield anymore but yet, with Fletcher not always available and Hargreaves potentially out for the best part of the remainder of his career... what options do we have left... gibson? Again, a decent player for the reserves or Sunderland maybe, but he hasnt convinced me of any of his supposed qualities one single time... IMO it reminds a bit of Miller... (As for Anderson, has great potential but shouldnt be burdened with to much defensive responsabilities as his creativity would be restricted to much)

So in essence, if we dont want to spend big on world class players - i'd prefer to see more talented 18 or 19 year old youngsters (coming through our own youth ranks or scouted and bought from foreign clubs) to be given opportunities in the first team more often (dear i say it: maybe a bit like arsenal) instead of bringing in average players already in their twenties (like the ones mentioned) which wont cut it anyway and
restrict the development of younger and potentially more talented players...
 

032Devil

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What comical journalism that is!! What else are we expecting to hear from opposition managers?

No one should be fearing anyone at this time of year anyway, as someone else has said fear/respect has to be earned, and that starts building from the first competative game.
Can't quite agree.

After three seasons of being PL champions two seasons as CL finalist, it's bound to put fear into some clubs/players. Loosing two of our top players (including the world's top player), is bound to give other clubs/players confidence. The likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal are brimming with confidence at our lose.
 

Trigg

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If teams don't fear us anymore and are willing to have a go I think we'll be better off.

We still have many players capable of punishing teams, especially if they're willing to come at us and leave gaps in doing so.

Bring it on Valencia! (and the rest of them)
 

Dyslexic Untied

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Maybe a little off topic, but this has been on my mind the last few days:

I have my doubts on some of the replacements brought in and some of the players that need to be replaced in the near future.... (Especially if you look at the fact that numerous players have been brought in the last 6 years and very little of them have made it to being a first team regular, if not sold already: bellion, kleberson, miller, djemba are the usuals suspects in this matter..)

First off, Owen may prove to be usefull as a squad rotation player, but i dont see him banging goals in every (other) game like ruud did (or whatever other succesful striker/target man in the past). (I do hope to be proved wrong by him ofcourse) Also, somehow i dont feel that Valencia is going to cut it at the highest level either, as for this Obertan fella, i mean...he never could earn a first team spot at a not so spectacular french side? Sound like Bellion mark II to me IMHO...) And we cant rely on up and coming talents Macheda or Wellbeck just yet either... so yeah, i do feel we lost quite a bit of quality upfront...

Furthermore, the game is supposed to be won in midfield, so who's going to win it for us? We cant possible rely on two players of around or over 35years of age to boss the midfield anymore but yet, with Fletcher not always available and Hargreaves potentially out for the best part of the remainder of his career... what options do we have left... gibson? Again, a decent player for the reserves or Sunderland maybe, but he hasnt convinced me of any of his supposed qualities one single time... IMO it reminds a bit of Miller... (As for Anderson, has great potential but shouldnt be burdened with to much defensive responsabilities as his creativity would be restricted to much)

So in essence, if we dont want to spend big on world class players - i'd prefer to see more talented 18 or 19 year old youngsters (coming through our own youth ranks or scouted and bought from foreign clubs) to be given opportunities in the first team more often (dear i say it: maybe a bit like arsenal) instead of bringing in average players already in their twenties (like the ones mentioned) which wont cut it anyway and
restrict the development of younger and potentially more talented players...

Not a wrong post Franq, but I disagree with the way you are putting it forward. Your points are true I guess, but you read too much into them and look at it from a far too pessimistic angle.

First when you mention that a lot of the players we have brought in lately haven`t succeeded, you mention a lot of players signed 03-04 but no the ones signed after that. After the Djembas we have signed Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Van der Sar, Nani, Anderson, Berbatov, Hargreaves, Park etc. who all are first team players.

Re Owen I do think he will bang goals in. He might not have to though. You don`t mention that losing Ronaldo frees up Rooney to play in a preferred positon where we all know he is at his best. Nor do you mention that Berbarlo Lights now has one more season to get used to his team, and that he will improve no doubt. Similar steps of improvement can be expected from Nani and Anderson as well.

Obertan, Macheda and Welbeck are young talents, they`ll come in handy but we don`t rely on them.

Re the midfield, you are correct that Scholes and Giggs are growing old. You fail to mention Carrick though, who is our most important midfielder by far. Carrick together with one of Anderson/Fletch, with Hargreaves, Scholes, Giggs, Gibson and even Valencia as back up is more than enough in terms of both quality and quantity.


Adding to those you have Tosic as well who might bring something to the table. Valencia has looked promising and the manager obviously has a lot of faith in him. Our defence is the same as last year, perhaps even better now that Evans and the Da Silvas have had another year to grow.


All in all you are too pessimistic. Our squad is still the best in the league, and losing Ronaldo might just make us more fluid and entertaining in attack. Last year wasn`t an especially good year for us in terms of attacking play - I`m sure this year will be better.
 

Anduin

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Let them talk. We'll do our talking on the pitch.
I'm fairly confident we'll put in some attacking displays this season, probably much more than last season. Yes, we had that boy Ronaldo who could pop up with something special any time. But especially last campaign our success was built on our fantastic defence, and I've not seen any changes made in this particular area. We still have Rio, Vidic, Evra and O'Shea. We have Wes Brown back. Fabio and Rafael are about to develop further and give us even more squad depth.

We'll most likely change our approach towards the game. But I really can't see us 'failing' in Europe, I don't really see much better teams out there. Right now our opponents might think the 'fear factor' is gone due to Ronaldo's departure. But I don't think it will change their approach to the games. All the managers know us well enough and they'd be right fecked if they decide to have a go at us. I've no doubts we would 'kill' those teams trying on the counter.

It will be business as usual... half the teams will park the bus, but this time around we'll have to rely on other players than Ronaldo. There is always somebody who steps up.
 

Franq

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you mention a lot of players signed 03-04 but no the ones signed after that. After the Djembas we have signed Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Van der Sar, Nani, Anderson, Berbatov, Hargreaves, Park etc. who all are first team players..
Youre right ofcourse but only Sar, Park, Evra and Vidic were relatively lowprofile signings, the rest were multimillion investments...but in general, your right, i guess my point was more that Valencia and Obertan and Tosic remind me to much of the 03/04 signings of which every single one failled

Re the midfield, you are correct that Scholes and Giggs are growing old. You fail to mention Carrick though, who is our most important midfielder by far. ..
Oops... but still, Flethcer and Carrick with 2*>35year olds and a parttime Hargreaves ... i guess our centre midfield deserves some carefull attention... we could use a bit of extra 'steel' i guess...

Our defence is the same as last year, perhaps even better now that Evans and the Da Silvas have had another year to grow...
I agree.... Thats why i didnt mention the defense...

All in all you are too pessimistic. Our squad is still the best in the league, and losing Ronaldo might just make us more fluid and entertaining in attack. Last year wasn`t an especially good year for us in terms of attacking play - I`m sure this year will be better.
Fair point, good to see someone so optimistic :)
 

Colly

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Of course we haven't, but it would not be at all bad if we had. Personally I'd love to see teams opening up and having a go at us, that's when we are at our most lethal. So come and have a go if you think you're hard enough, I say !!
 

Dyslexic Untied

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Youre right ofcourse but only Sar, Park, Evra and Vidic were relatively lowprofile signings, the rest were multimillion investments...but in general, your right, i guess my point was more that Valencia and Obertan and Tosic remind me to much of the 03/04 signings of which every single one failled

I think Valencia is a pretty safe bet to be honest, from the little I have seen of him anyway. Tosic and Obertan are "gambles" I agree with that.

I think what is different this time though, from the years of Djembas and Millers is that we are now in a position where we can afford to gamble with some players. We have such a strong squad now that we can bring in some young players - give them a chance - and if they don`t make it then it won`t harm us. Manucho was the same, a gamble that didn`t work, but United can carry that easily now.



Oops... but still, Flethcer and Carrick with 2*>35year olds and a parttime Hargreaves ... i guess our centre midfield deserves some carefull attention... we could use a bit of extra 'steel' i guess...

I think we are fine. But when Giggs and Scholes retire we probably need another player or two. Maybe Gibson and Possebon step up? If not we have a hefty transfer kit that can be used when that day comes.


I agree.... Thats why i didnt mention the defense...



Fair point, good to see someone so optimistic :)

I`m not usually that optimistic. But I think our squad is full of talent these days, and when Liverpool and Chelsea on paper haven`t strengthened yet I think we still are the team to beat.
 

Sultan

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Of course losing your best player will give some degree of confidence to the opposition, and to be fair, we were not that feared last year even with Ronaldo in the side.

We've only played a few meaningless friendlies since losing Ronaldo. We'll just have to see how the changes in the team work and affect us when the Premiership starts. If he's serious it's pretty naive of the opposition to be writing us off so soon.

I have a feeling the Valencia coach is hyping the game.
 

misterredmist

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sorry, what's changed ? don't recall too many teams, especially European,
announcing their impending arrival for a game at OT with the words " we're sh**ing ourselves, and we're turning up for a good d*cking!"......

and don't forget, FCP had a right good go at us last year, with Ronny & apache in the team....
 

jgraham

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Maybe a little off topic, but this has been on my mind the last few days:

I have my doubts on some of the replacements brought in and some of the players that need to be replaced in the near future.... (Especially if you look at the fact that numerous players have been brought in the last 6 years and very little of them have made it to being a first team regular, if not sold already: bellion, kleberson, miller, djemba are the usuals suspects in this matter..)

First off, Owen may prove to be usefull as a squad rotation player, but i dont see him banging goals in every (other) game like ruud did (or whatever other succesful striker/target man in the past). (I do hope to be proved wrong by him ofcourse) Also, somehow i dont feel that Valencia is going to cut it at the highest level either, as for this Obertan fella, i mean...he never could earn a first team spot at a not so spectacular french side? Sound like Bellion mark II to me IMHO...) And we cant rely on up and coming talents Macheda or Wellbeck just yet either... so yeah, i do feel we lost quite a bit of quality upfront...

Furthermore, the game is supposed to be won in midfield, so who's going to win it for us? We cant possible rely on two players of around or over 35years of age to boss the midfield anymore but yet, with Fletcher not always available and Hargreaves potentially out for the best part of the remainder of his career... what options do we have left... gibson? Again, a decent player for the reserves or Sunderland maybe, but he hasnt convinced me of any of his supposed qualities one single time... IMO it reminds a bit of Miller... (As for Anderson, has great potential but shouldnt be burdened with to much defensive responsabilities as his creativity would be restricted to much)

So in essence, if we dont want to spend big on world class players - i'd prefer to see more talented 18 or 19 year old youngsters (coming through our own youth ranks or scouted and bought from foreign clubs) to be given opportunities in the first team more often (dear i say it: maybe a bit like arsenal) instead of bringing in average players already in their twenties (like the ones mentioned) which wont cut it anyway and
restrict the development of younger and potentially more talented players...
Firstly I think this must be the post with the most random use of brackets ever! brackets after brackets - well done!

As for the original point, it's a fairly obvious point to make after losing the current world player of the year and current argentine international and it's now upto us to show that the loss of those two won't affect us too much. I'm happy with the players brought in, and believe they'll help make sure we have a right balance to our play. Also it must not be forgotten that Wayne Rooney in theory should now get more chance to play his more preferred position and this can only benefit us as a club.
 

Tribec

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First off, Owen may prove to be usefull as a squad rotation player, but i dont see him banging goals in every (other) game like ruud did (or whatever other succesful striker/target man in the past). (I do hope to be proved wrong by him ofcourse) Also, somehow i dont feel that Valencia is going to cut it at the highest level either, as for this Obertan fella, i mean...he never could earn a first team spot at a not so spectacular french side? Sound like Bellion mark II to me IMHO...) And we cant rely on up and coming talents Macheda or Wellbeck just yet either... so yeah, i do feel we lost quite a bit of quality upfront...
Whilst accepting the midfield will probably be looked at over this season and next years World cup in terms of replacing both Scholes and Giggs, let's give those in there a chance. Hargreaves hasn't come back yet, if he does and he can play to the standard he was prior to his injuries then we are looking for only 1 more in the middle.

However, I do want to question the quote over Owen, apart from so far so good in the pre-season friendlies, we can't really expect an RVN type return in terms of goals. I don't think SAF will build the attack around Owen for one, and Owen won't be the first forward in the starting line up. Secondly if you look back RVN was a freak in United terms, as you really have to go back to Law, before you get a goalscorer of such quantities. During the past 16 years or so we've generally relied on the whole team scoring, however RVN and the past couple of years Ronaldo have provided most of our goals single handed. Fergie has openly said he wants the rest of the team to take back some of the strain from the forwards.

As for the expectations of Valencia, Obertan and Tosic, I find it hard to grasp. These are 3 different players to Ronaldo, and let's be honest here, how many players of Ronadlo quality have we seen at Old Trafford in a United shirt? When was the last time we could confidently say we had the best player in the world in our team? Ronaldo has gone, yes the aforementioned 3 have standards to meet, the United standard almost, but don't use Ronaldo as a bench mark. Yes, the likes of Bellion, Kleberson have come and gone, but even SAF can't get it right 100%. For me, writing these guys off before they've played a real game for the club shocking, they need to at least be given a chance.
 

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There is always a lot of scare mongering from the tabloid press. Every summer, if you believe what you read, United are in the midst of a crisis.

I think teams will roll up this season and feel that they are less of a condemned outfit in the sense that there is no Ronaldo. I don't think Tevez's exit effects anything truth be told.

But this is when you want our other big players to step up. The fear factor of the last three seasons may be diminished at the moment, but it can be replaced very quickly with a few whirlwind performances. There are so many similarities between 0607 and now, its eerie.
 

rednev

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Giant clubs always have the fear factor, regardless of form and the players currently at the club. Teams will be wary because we're still Manchester United.
 

Alwyn

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This can only work in our favour if it's true that opposition don't fear us as much anymore. Underestimating a team is much much worse than overestimating.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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Youre right ofcourse but only Sar, Park, Evra and Vidic were relatively lowprofile signings, the rest were multimillion investments...but in general, your right, i guess my point was more that Valencia and Obertan and Tosic remind me to much of the 03/04 signings of which every single one failled
You know that the club signed Ronaldo in 2003, right?

Kind of nullifies the rest of your arguments.
 
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Its fine if we have temporarily lost our 'fear factor'.

We have gained the 'element of surprise' instead. Let the opposition think that Ronaldo and Tevez defined the attack of our team because we will just have to show them just how much quality we have now. Hopefully this season we can prove to the world that we are as strong as ever.
 

Franq

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You know that the club signed Ronaldo in 2003, right?

Kind of nullifies the rest of your arguments.
:yawn:

I didnt have any arguments... i just stated how i felt about these new signings of lately... they reminded me of some of the 03/04 signings and that i forgot to mention ronaldo as a 03/04 signing is totally irrelevant....

:yawn:
 

jojojo

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If Valencia had played us last year Emery and somebody asked him if he was scared of playing against Ronaldo - he'd have said of course not and gone into the standard spiel about good players and respect.

Have we lost the fear factor? We were losing it last year with Ron still in the team. After a couple of years of teams not even trying to attack, particularly at Old Trafford, a couple of teams adopted a, "nothing ventured, nothing gained," approach - Villa and Porto most obviously - and almost got what they wanted. We did scramble our way back into those matches (and yes, Ronaldo was instrumental to that) but it has helped break the assumptions about how to play against us.

It's what we do about it that matters. Last year when Inter marked Ronaldo at a setpiece, Vidic scored and then vice versa. The same went for Rooney and Ronaldo, keeping an extra watch on one was easy, looking after both was harder. It'll come, but it won't come without a fight. Which is OK, because it'll be worth watching.
 

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Ronaldo generated that fear factor in defenders, like Henry before him. The others teams will be happy to see him gone because there is no one else in the team who needs 2 or 3 players to mark him all the time.

The way to restore nervousness in the opposition is goals, and lots of them.
 

Crerand Legend

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The Daily Mirror would dearly like to think we have,the scousers mouthpiece.We will be better this season,cant wait for it to start
 

Dr. Dwayne

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:yawn:

I didnt have any arguments... i just stated how i felt about these new signings of lately... they reminded me of some of the 03/04 signings and that i forgot to mention ronaldo as a 03/04 signing is totally irrelevant....

:yawn:
Irrelevant because it doesn't quite jive with your doom mongering?
 

devilish

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Teams will not attack us more then they did last year. I mean we still have the same defense. Teams may decide to defend more knowing that we will find it harder to crack them up. 1 point is better then nothing.
 

Alex

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There is no doubt that United were more feared when they possessed Ronaldo, doesnt really mean feck all in the big scheme of things though.