Dive. Good one though. 
Seeing it live I was totally sold.
Seeing it live I was totally sold.Herrera against Chelesa: Dive or Foul?
- Thread starter Mindhunter
- Start date
Dive no doubt
Clear dive, unfortunately. Dissapointed he did it and glad he was booked.
I voted both but it was much more of a dive than a foul. The dive was absolute blatant, the foul is uncertain. Ironically if Herrera hadn't dive Cahill might have taken him out legitimately.
Foul 100%
I see it as a good effort by one of our own to salvage a draw by hook or by crook. And I wouldn't have any complaints had we gotten a penalty there against Chelshite.
Scum-bags deserve it.
If it were some other team, then I'd probably wouldn't want it to end that way.
Scum-bags deserve it.
If it were some other team, then I'd probably wouldn't want it to end that way.
Care to say why? We suffered our share of debatable decisions against us at Old Trafford before, so I don't see exactly why Chelsea would be immune to such at the Bridge.
Either way, I have seen those given so many times before.
100% dive, but he might have been able to con the referee if he'd have done it 20 minutes before. Doing it before the final kick of the game looked desperate as allfeck.
100% dive and i hope he is embarrassed of that.
It was a clear dive, at least clear to those who had a clear view of what actually happened.
And that's the thing about fouls in the box -- you never really know what is going to through the mind of the referee. The worst that can happen to you as a forward in that situation is a yellow card, but the worst that can happen to a defender in that situation is a pk AND a red card AND the draw. A win-win!
We can all condemn Herrera in this situation, quite rightly so, but what would we say if Herrera initiated the exact same trailing-leg contact and got the pk in a CL final that sealed the CL trophy for us? Yes, what then?
And that's the thing about fouls in the box -- you never really know what is going to through the mind of the referee. The worst that can happen to you as a forward in that situation is a yellow card, but the worst that can happen to a defender in that situation is a pk AND a red card AND the draw. A win-win!
We can all condemn Herrera in this situation, quite rightly so, but what would we say if Herrera initiated the exact same trailing-leg contact and got the pk in a CL final that sealed the CL trophy for us? Yes, what then?
Clear dive. Don't give a damn that he did it. Every player in football does. Even Phil Neville got himself a taste in his last season. Diving/Simulation/GoingDownEasy and whatever else win football matches every week in every league. Maybe if the game were properly officiated or used the various tools available (ie replays) diving wouldn't be so endemic. But at the moment it is and I don't think its worth castigating any given player for doing what everyone else does.
Hmm a have a feeling that while refs jave made a few mistakes that favoured our oppents none of that mistake was anything more than misjudgment.
Dowd is fat, Bear Grylls aka Clatenburg is blind and weak...wellcl they are who they are.
Im sure that Atkinson suffered a lot after his perfomances against us in recent years. I dont think he can afford another big mistakes.
With Dean i.just feel he has an agenda against us. My gut feeling but honestly cant rember when i was happy with the way he conducted our game.
Would have stilled called it out as a dive. I would have celebrated the trophy though since all the times we were at the wrong end of referee's decisions we were not allowed to celebrate. These things even out over the course of a season is what I firmly believe (the underlying assumption is that it is a human error and not a conspiracy against us).
Also, I totally understand why Herrera did it. We were losing to a team who had 29% possession at home and had no intention to play football.
Clearly a dive. Same exact dive as what Costa attempted (and got away with) in the World Cup group stages against the Netherlands.
Really the main reason I don't rate Costa, and actually despise the man, is his incessant diving. He had another attempt at a "dive" just a few minutes later where he flopped over under minimal contact that game - fortunately the ref didn't award a penalty then, or it would have been 2-0 before the half.
Really the main reason I don't rate Costa, and actually despise the man, is his incessant diving. He had another attempt at a "dive" just a few minutes later where he flopped over under minimal contact that game - fortunately the ref didn't award a penalty then, or it would have been 2-0 before the half.
Clear contact from both front and trailing leg. The convention these days is for the player to go down to show the referee that there's been contact and let him make the decision. In this case, the ref didn't have the bottle to give a soft penalty in the last second against Mourinho. Nothing wrong with what Herrera did and I'd have been slightly annoyed if he tried to play the moral high ground card and stayed up.
I have no love for Costa, but that's not clear-cut either.
Contact doesn't make it a penalty when it's Herrera who contrives to make the contact.
It was a dive guys, just accept it and move on.
Can't believe this has it's own thread.
Can't believe this has it's own thread.
If you're talking about the one with Mowbray, that was arguably the greatest interview ever.
100% dive, but worth the try
How can in be a foul if the falling player moves his leg towards his opponent?
A foul should be awarded when you are impeded by an opposition player - not when you take the decision to go down and try to justify it by engineering "contact".
He expected a tackle, one didn't arrive and he tried to con the referee. Simple as that.
He played for it. It was a dive. Saying that there's some inconsistency with this sort of thing. Have seen similar situations where pundits have said "if a defender sticks his leg out he's giving the ref a decision to make" and G Neville has been pretty pro dive in the past also. Personally it's not something you want to see but I've seen them given.
It's football. Legs are going to move in all directions. Any inference of intention is a judgement call, which is why referees exist. Whether we like it or not, in the current climate the player has to go down almost every time in order to signal contact, kind of like how you have to appeal in cricket. All I'm saying is that it's a grey area and I don't blame Herrera for asking the question. As has been said before, you've seen them given.
Rubbish.
What is and isn't a foul may be a "grey area" in certain circumstances. Moving your leg into contact with a defender and falling over, with the sole intention of convincing the referee that the defender has stopped you in your tracks does not fall into that grey area.
You might "see them given" - doesn't mean it wasn't a dive. Any United fan who thinks that's a foul needs to take the red tinted specs off. If we lost a close game 1-0 from a penalty given like that you'd rightly be livid.
He took a chance, didn't get the pen and got rightly punished. He isn't asking a question - he's actively tying to cheat because he didn't have to go down.
I'd prefer is if our players didn't do that personally. Eventually it results in said player being known for it and not actually getting anything - genuine or otherwise. It's counter productive to get that kind of reputation.
This is the sort of thread that we'd ridicule had it been on RAWK about a Liverpool player.
It was a 100% blatant effort to con the referee into giving a penalty.
It was a 100% blatant effort to con the referee into giving a penalty.
Should have written "foul" .. he created the situation is more correct.
Both. Poor dive but the right idea.
Diving is a yellow offence, exactly the same as bringing down an attacker to spoil an attack, or wasting time. If United had been defending a 1 goal lead and Hazard broke free, only to be brought crashing down by Herrera's cynical tackle, it's good play, not 'cheating'. At the top level of sport Herrera not trying to win a penalty in those circumstances would have been as unprofessional as someone not tracking back, or wasting time.
Football would probably be better without all 3 of the above selections of tactics (employed by every single professional football club in the country) but until there's better punishment for them, Herrera did the right thing, or at least tried to.
Diving is a yellow offence, exactly the same as bringing down an attacker to spoil an attack, or wasting time. If United had been defending a 1 goal lead and Hazard broke free, only to be brought crashing down by Herrera's cynical tackle, it's good play, not 'cheating'. At the top level of sport Herrera not trying to win a penalty in those circumstances would have been as unprofessional as someone not tracking back, or wasting time.
Football would probably be better without all 3 of the above selections of tactics (employed by every single professional football club in the country) but until there's better punishment for them, Herrera did the right thing, or at least tried to.
It was an obvious dive. But I'll go against the grain somewhat and sort of condone it. He was going nowhere and took the chance. Given the circumstances I'd probably suggest doing it again.
What is particularly irritating and pointless is diving incessantly, (see early Nani, Ronaldo and, for a period, Young) and when players go to ground when there is a chance to go on and score, (see Januzaj against Arsenal in the FA Cup).
Generally, I dislike diving, but there's a time and a place in the cynical world of football. Admitting to that isn't very worthy or ethical, mind you.
What is particularly irritating and pointless is diving incessantly, (see early Nani, Ronaldo and, for a period, Young) and when players go to ground when there is a chance to go on and score, (see Januzaj against Arsenal in the FA Cup).
Generally, I dislike diving, but there's a time and a place in the cynical world of football. Admitting to that isn't very worthy or ethical, mind you.
The dark side is strong in you young padowa.....
Wish he had of got the pen.
Worst ground in the world to leave walking right beside the home supporters the whole way back to earls court
Worst ground in the world to leave walking right beside the home supporters the whole way back to earls court
I think he said 'it's ref's decision to make' or something along the lines and immediately turned to Falcao's decision which he was perfectly entitled to as that was clearly a foul and won the game for Chelsea. As I said in the Mourinho thread, he just always tends to get that rub of green against us. I mean there was an identical challenge on Drogba (I think) a minute later and the ref whistled immediately.
Glad you have the ability to read minds. Us mortals have learnt to live with uncertainty.
What does that even mean?
Both, and he's already better than Young at the diving part. But the defender was asking for trouble the way he stuck his leg out.
very well, i only know a poll is to gather opinion, i've never learn opinion can come up to truth. so wise
but you know what? people just focus in the wrong area. herrera was not the subject, cahill did. the only thing it needs to determine whether if cahill committed a foul.
and this has already been well proven cahill made a foul on herrera. watch this:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-2014-2015-performances.392782/page-227
and also the pictures i put on the same thread earlier
and,
what happened after the collision really doesn't any matter
prove cahill didn't commit a foul with facts
but you know what? people just focus in the wrong area. herrera was not the subject, cahill did. the only thing it needs to determine whether if cahill committed a foul.
and this has already been well proven cahill made a foul on herrera. watch this:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-2014-2015-performances.392782/page-227
and also the pictures i put on the same thread earlier
and,
what happened after the collision really doesn't any matter
prove cahill didn't commit a foul with facts
Holy shit, what a post.