Herrera and Fellaini

[united_99]

It's already extremely depressing seeing Herrera's name next to Fellaini's. I might actually cry if I then see them playing together. Already feel sorry for Herrera in that case!

 

[Pexbo]

If we are talking CM options, I'd be looking to Pearson before Fellaini.

 

[NMF]

Every time I get excited about watching Herrera play for United I then remember the rest of our midfield, he won't be able to perform at his highest level without someone reliable next to him even at Bilbao he had Ituraspe, Martinez or Mikel Rico all are better than our current options.

Logically it would be the right choice in the next 2-3 transfer windows to sell all of Carrick, Cleverley, Fellaini and Fletcher.

 

[Rood]

Well, Van Gaal stated in the press conference today that he's willing to give everyone a chance to see how they work under his philosophy.

Based on how Fellaini played under Martinez; who shares a similar philosophy to Van Gaal, I don't see why Fellaini can't be used as a defensive midfielder next to a dynamic, ball playing midfielder in Herrera. That's how Martinez played him anyway. This is not to say he was anything special at Everton, but he certainly looked a lot more confident on the ball, in a team that demanded at least 4 to 5 options off the ball.

At Man United, his confidence, along with many others seemed to have gone. Players were scared to get on the ball, there weren't always a number options off the ball, which led to players giving it away or hoofing it up the pitch. I have no doubt this will happen under Van Gaal's philosophy.

I'm not going sit here and say Fellaini will be a success under Van Gaal, but i'll be glad if he's given a chance. If Van Gaal's not convinced in about a month's time, I have no doubt he'll be looking to sell him.

One of the few reasonable posts among the usual bollocks whenever Fellaini is mentioned.

 

[Ekeke]

I'd rather Herrera and Anderson out of all those options tbh.

Not that it's saying much

Sounds catastrophic

Anderson is barely awake when we don't have the ball. Ander would have to do 95% of the cleanup and defensive work a few months from playing as a forward player in the hole.

On top of that he'd do the bulk of the attacking too

 

[Oneunited26]

Every time I get excited about watching Herrera play for United I then remember the rest of our midfield, he won't be able to perform at his highest level without someone reliable next to him even at Bilbao he had Ituraspe, Martinez or Mikel Rico all are better than our current options.

Logically it would be the right choice in the next 2-3 transfer windows to sell all of Carrick, Cleverley, Fellaini and Fletcher.

Signing herrera is like obama when he tried to change the health care in the US, its just throwing money into a black hole.

Compare real madrid's midfield options to ours
alonzo modric khedira kroos isco ronaldo bale di maria

United's midfield
carrick herrera fletcher anderson fellani cleverly valencia nani young janazaj kagwa mata

Let that sink in

 

[Rood]

Signing herrera is like obama when he tried to change the health care in the US, its just throwing money into a black hole.

Compare real madrid's midfield options to ours
alonzo modric khedira kroos isco ronaldo bale di maria

United's midfield
carrick herrera fletcher anderson fellani cleverly valencia nani young janazaj kagwa mata

Let that sink in

I couldnt give a shit how our midfield compares to Madrid's at the moment - we wont be playing them this season so it is irrelevant.

We only have to compare to other PL clubs and LvG has a full year to build a squad to challenge in Europe the year after.

 

[devilish]

Well, Van Gaal stated in the press conference today that he's willing to give everyone a chance to see how they work under his philosophy.

Based on how Fellaini played under Martinez; who shares a similar philosophy to Van Gaal, I don't see why Fellaini can't be used as a defensive midfielder next to a dynamic, ball playing midfielder in Herrera. That's how Martinez played him anyway. This is not to say he was anything special at Everton, but he certainly looked a lot more confident on the ball, in a team that demanded at least 4 to 5 options off the ball.

At Man United, his confidence, along with many others seemed to have gone. Players were scared to get on the ball, there weren't always a number options off the ball, which led to players giving it away or hoofing it up the pitch. I have no doubt this will happen under Van Gaal's philosophy.

I'm not going sit here and say Fellaini will be a success under Van Gaal, but i'll be glad if he's given a chance. If Van Gaal's not convinced in about a month's time, I have no doubt he'll be looking to sell him.

You do notice that Martinez was itching to sell the long ball merchant just to get his hands on Mccarthy?

 

[RustyS]

Playing Fellaini next to Herrara is like dumping a bottle of ketchup on a perfect steak. Fellaini will ruin Herrera's game, simple as that.

 

[Oneunited26]

I couldnt give a shit how our midfield compares to Madrid's at the moment - we wont be playing them this season so it is irrelevant.

We only have to compare to other PL clubs and LvG has a full year to build a squad to challenge in Europe the year after.

In a years time will it be any different much? I doubt it. The reality is, our midfield is not even a top 4 midfield especially with carrick injured, and the same set of wide players who assist has many as they score

 

[NMF]

Playing Fellaini next to Herrara is like dumping a bottle of ketchup on a perfect steak. Fellaini will ruin Herrera's game, simple as that.

Any of our midfielders will ruin Herrera's game his all about quick passing and movement, fast tempo that doesn't sound like any of our bunch.

 

[RustyS]

Any of our midfielders will ruin Herrera's game his all about quick passing and movement, fast tempo that doesn't sound like any of our bunch.

But Fellaini is by far the worst of the bunch, for me.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

You do notice that Martinez was itching to sell the long ball merchant just to get his hands on Mccarthy?

I didn't, no, but thanks for letting me know.

 

[Oneunited26]

But Fellaini is by far the worst of the bunch, for me.

fellaini fletcher cleverly and anderson are all like broken down cars, its just which one do you prefer out of the 4

 

[NMF]

But Fellaini is by far the worst of the bunch, for me.

Agree.

 

[United22]

One of the few reasonable posts among the usual bollocks whenever Fellaini is mentioned.

Not really, the truth is he is a horrible player (as shown by his United and Belgium performances). He excels only in a long ball system as an advanced CAM which is where he played in the latter stages of his career at Everton, and he was an absolute nuisance there for other teams. The keyword is nuisance, that doesn't mean he is any good for a top attacking team, because even Sam Allardyce has long ball teams that can cause trouble or be a nuisance to any other side in the Premier League. All it means is that he doesn't fit in here and he is not a Manchester United player. Thing is , we could have signed Charlie Adam or any other piss poor midfielder and the same bullshit will apply, people will always find some ways to defend the player and refuse to admit they are just plain rubbish. He was just a big mistake, and the sooner we can ship him off to West Ham for a £15m or so fee (optimistic), the better we will all be

 

[Rood]

In a years time will it be any different much? I doubt it. The reality is, our midfield is not even a top 4 midfield especially with carrick injured, and the same set of wide players who assist has many as they score

Yes of course it will - players will either have stepped up or been shipped out, LvG will not mess around.

I am confident of top 4 with what we have, still if we can get someone of the quality of Vidal then we should do it

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Any of our midfielders will ruin Herrera's game his all about quick passing and movement, fast tempo that doesn't sound like any of our bunch.

Rubbish. Cleverley and Carrick, and even Fletcher before he suffered with his illness proved that they can play at a very fast tempo. In a system with options loads of options off the ball will allow the players to play at a quick tempo.

Teams couldn't live with Cleverley and Anderson in 2011.

 

[Rood]

Not really, the truth is he is a horrible player (as shown by his United and Belgium performances). He excels only in a long ball system as an advanced CAM which is where he played in the latter stages of his career at Everton, and he was an absolute nuisance there for other teams.

It is not the truth, it is just your opinion and I don't agree with it in the slightest.

 

[Amadaeus]

Playing Fellaini in midfield is like flying over Russia with a ukrine painted boeing airliner a malaysian airliner ... It is a "no, no." I rather have Pearson or Fletcher partnered Herrera.

 

[Oneunited26]

Rubbish. Cleverley and Carrick, and even Fletcher before he suffered with his illness proved that they can play at a very fast tempo. In a system with options loads of options off the ball will allow the players to play at a quick tempo.

Teams couldn't live with Cleverley and Anderson in 2011.

we are not in 2011 any more, we are in 2014 going into 2015, so 3 to 4 years is a huge difference. But you answered your own argument, (before) its NOW that matters, not before. And like the sands of time, their time is up. We saw this against Bayern, carrick and fletcher at this level has a combo are out of their depth, these guys go back to too playing together in midfield in 2006, its 2014 now. Lucky for united, they will not be playing the bayern's and madrid's this season. But we are playing man city, chelsea, arsenal, so we are been giving a taste of some of the best English teams in Europe. We will be a much better organized team that plays better football, that could make a top 4, but to be title challengers 3 more signings need to be made, and allot of players need to be shown the door, especially the midfield area.

 

[NMF]

Rubbish. Cleverley and Carrick, and even Fletcher before he suffered with his illness proved that they can play at a very fast tempo. In a system with options loads of options off the ball will allow the players to play at a quick tempo.

Teams couldn't live with Cleverley and Anderson in 2011.

No Carrick can at times play one touch football but he prefers not to in fact he takes to many touches of the ball well he did last season.

Cleverley is a squad player at best, his confidence is shot. Also there is no point bringing up fletcher before his illness his not that player anymore and should be moved on or move into coaching.

 

[Rood]

No Carrick can at times play one touch football but he prefers not to in fact he takes to many touches of the ball well he did last season.

Cleverley is a squad player at best, his confidence is shot. Also there is no point bringing up fletcher before his illness his not that player anymore and should be moved on or move into coaching.

Forget about last season, even RvP looked average under Moyes - it is a fresh start for all.

It may well turn out that Fellaini, Fletcher, Cleverley are not upto it but regardless of your blinkered opinions they will all get a chance to prove themselves to Van Gaal. Plus both Fellaini and CLeverley did manage some very good performances for us last season, they just need to do it on a consistent basis if they want to stay.

 

[NMF]

Forget about last season, even RvP looked average under Moyes - it is a fresh start for all.

It may well turn out that Fellaini, Fletcher, Cleverley are not upto it but regardless of your blinkered opinions they will all get a chance to prove themselves to Van Gaal. Plus both Fellaini and CLeverley did manage some very good performances for us last season, they just need to do it on a consistent basis if they want to stay.

Yet he was still our top scorer. Fletcher is finished it pains me to say but it's true, Cleverley just isn't good enough all though I'd expect him to improve the most of our current bunch and could make an acceptable squad player. Fellaini is just awful his best performances came against relegation sides but when up against the best teams he was out of his depth his not a CM his a target man I'll be surprised if Van Gaal doesn't sell him.

 

[Rood]

Yet he was still our top scorer. Fletcher is finished it pains me to say but it's true, Cleverley just isn't good enough all though I'd expect him to improve the most of our current bunch and could make an acceptable squad player. Fellaini is just awful his best performances came against relegation sides but when up against the best teams he was out of his depth his not a CM his a target man I'll be surprised if Van Gaal doesn't sell him.

Change the record - you are boring the shit out of me!

Fresh start for all - we will see what happens

 

[The Red Thinker]

If we are talking CM options, I'd be looking to Pearson before Fellaini.

I agree. Pearson is already better suited to the role Fellaini plays in our time.

 

[JSMHE]

Not so sure if this pair will work. Both seem lacking in long ball and switching play.

 

[NMF]

Change the record - you are boring the shit out of me!

Fresh start for all - we will see what happens

We made that mistake last season. It's time to clear out the deadwood.

 

[gza the genius]

I don't think there's a midfielder in the world that would form a good midfield two partnership with Fellaini. I'd even be disappointed if at any point we somehow line up with Vidal and Fellaini in midfield together. Fellaini is not a defensive midfielder and should not play as an attacking midfielder for us. Bar Anderson I would rather see any other midfielder we have partner Herrera, including some youth prospects (Pearson/Rothwell) and players out of position (Jones/Rooney).

 

[the hea]

You do notice that Martinez was itching to sell the long ball merchant just to get his hands on Mccarthy?

Was that the reason they held on to him until the final day of the transfer window and why did he start him in all PL games up until he was sold if he didn´t want him

 

[Redguern]

Playing Fellaini in midfield is like flying over Russia with a ukrine painted boeing airliner a malaysian airliner ... It is a "no, no." I rather have Pearson or Fletcher partnered Herrera.

Please don't use this sort of sick analogy in our football forum - I thought the Caf was better than this...

 

[devilish]

Was that the reason they held on to him until the final day of the transfer window and why did he start him in all PL games up until he was sold if he didn´t want him

Moyes saw him as a key player to his 'Everton way' so they kept him there till we became desperate enough to start bidding ridiculous sums of money for him. Everton aren't stupid. They knew exactly that United would do their very best to bring that special player Moyesy wanted so much.

 

[devilish]

I didn't, no, but thanks for letting me know.

No worries mate.

They sold us these extremely average player for 27m and got a player whose actually useful to have around for 15m. I guess one day we had to repay for our sins in bringing great talent like Ole, Schmeichel and Cantona for peanuts

To be fair Moyes has managed where SAF and Busby failed. Never in United's history a manager was supported by United, City and Liverpool fans alike. Its a shame that the UN hasn't signed him already.

 

[the hea]

Moyes saw him as a key player to his 'Everton way' so they kept him there till we became desperate enough to start bidding ridiculous sums of money for him. Everton aren't stupid. They knew exactly that United would do their very best to bring that special player Moyes wanted so much.

But if Moyes wanted him so much why did we wait until the dying hours of the window. Could it be that Fellaini actually is a decent player not world class but decent and United and Moyes saw him as just that and bought him because we were not able to get anyone else in to strengthen our midfield. And maybe Martinez saw him as a decent player and that´s why he started him in all his PL games at Everton and maybe that´s why he held out. Maybe the pressure on Fellaini was to big, our midfield was in shambles and everyone was expecting big "world class" signings to make it stronger but all we got was a decent player in Fellaini and people deemed him a failure from day one only because they had been expecting players like Fabregas and Vidal.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

we are not in 2011 any more, we are in 2014 going into 2015, so 3 to 4 years is a huge difference. But you answered your own argument, (before) its NOW that matters, not before. And like the sands of time, their time is up. We saw this against Bayern, carrick and fletcher at this level has a combo are out of their depth, these guys go back to too playing together in midfield in 2006, its 2014 now. Lucky for united, they will not be playing the bayern's and madrid's this season. But we are playing man city, chelsea, arsenal, so we are been giving a taste of some of the best English teams in Europe. We will be a much better organized team that plays better football, that could make a top 4, but to be title challengers 3 more signings need to be made, and allot of players need to be shown the door, especially the midfield area.

Listen, I don't disagree that we need signings in the midfield area, my disagreement was on the fact that @NMF said none of our current midfielders can play quick tempo football. I personally think Cleverley and Carrick can play quick tempo football. It was only the season before last, where we walked the league, with Carrick and Cleverley being our main midfield partnership, where they both showed the can play at a quick tempo.

I just think it goes to show what a lack of confidence can do. Last year, arguably most, if not all of our players suffered from a lack of confidence. With Van Gaal coming in and implementing, what I would hope, a system with quick tempo football, with numerous options off the ball, will hopefully instil that confidence back into our players, where as a result, we should see better performances.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

No Carrick can at times play one touch football but he prefers not to in fact he takes to many touches of the ball well he did last season.

Cleverley is a squad player at best, his confidence is shot.

Also there is no point bringing up fletcher before his illness his not that player anymore and should be moved on or move into coaching.

System, maybe?

Why was his confidence shot?

Ok, I'll give you that one, although Fletcher was brilliant against Swansea last season, in my opinion.

 

[devilish]

But if Moyes wanted him so much why did we wait until the dying hours of the window. Could it be that Fellaini actually is a decent player not world class but decent and United and Moyes saw him as just that and bought him because we were not able to get anyone else in to strengthen our midfield. And maybe Martinez saw him as a decent player and that´s why he started him in all his PL games at Everton and maybe that´s why he held out. Maybe the pressure on Fellaini was to big, our midfield was in shambles and everyone was expecting big "world class" signings to make it stronger but all we got was a decent player in Fellaini and people deemed him a failure from day one only because they had been expecting players like Fabregas and Vidal.

We started bidding for Fellaini and Baines around mid August which was around a month after Moyes started with us. To be fair it occurred after our first bid for Fabregas. On the other hand we bidded for them much before we placed bids for Khedira, Coentrao and Herrera. So you cant really see them as panic buys.

I believe that Moyes truly thought that he could convince these guys to cause enough havoc at Everton and force a move on our terms. He wasn't totally wrong. Martinez wanted some quality in CM and needed to recoup 15m to bring Mccarthy. It turned out that there are still people around who value contracts and respect and with Baines secured Everton could capitalize on our desperation for the tall guy.

In my opinion it was a battle of nerves. Moyes was desperate for Fellaini, Martinez was desperate for Mccarthy. An intelligent manager would have moved to other targets much before the deadline. United should never be in a position to beg for a player especially if he's erm...Fellaini. After all there were other talent around, players like Khedira, Herrera and Mccarthy. Unfortunately its seems that none of these players fitted Moyes game better then Fellaini.

Its still early days but one can predict a change in our strategy. We are more cautious, placing bids, see what happens and if things get complicated we switch targets to avoid being used as a pivot for a better contract elsewhere. That's how United should work. We're not cheap however we're not the top guns in the transfer market. If Real, PSG, Chelsea, Barcelona or Bayern want our target then they will probably get him. So there's no point in entangle ourselves into a saga we will probably lose

 

[NMF]

System, maybe?

Why was his confidence shot?

Ok, I'll give you that one, although Fletcher was brilliant against Swansea last season, in my opinion.

No, his just prefers to play at a slower tempo.

Why would you expect, that stupid petition by England fans, deleting his twitter because he was getting constant abuse, for the sake of his own career he'd best look for a move where expectations aren't so high.

While he was good that game he had some horror performances like against Sunderland at Old Trafford when we lost 1-0 him and Carrick put in one of the worst midfield performances I've ever seen but you can't solely blame him since his illness has taken away his energy and drive to go from box to box it's a shame but we need better options.

 

[the hea]

We started bidding for Fellaini and Baines around mid August which was around a month after Moyes started with us. To be fair it occurred after our first bid for Fabregas. On the other hand we bidded for them much before we placed bids for Khedira, Coentrao and Herrera. So you cant really see them as panic buys.

I believe that Moyes truly thought that he could convince these guys to cause enough havoc at Everton and force a move on our terms. He wasn't totally wrong. Martinez wanted some quality in CM and needed to recoup 15m to bring Mccarthy. It turned out that there are still people around who value contracts and respect and with Baines secured Everton could capitalize on our desperation for the tall guy.

In my opinion it was a battle of nerves. Moyes was desperate for Fellaini, Martinez was desperate for Mccarthy. An intelligent manager would have moved to other targets much before the deadline. United should never be in a position to beg for a player especially if he's erm...Fellaini. After all there were other talent around, players like Khedira, Herrera and Mccarthy. Unfortunately its seems that none of these players fitted Moyes game better then Fellaini.

Its still early days but one can predict a change in our strategy. We are more cautious, placing bids, see what happens and if things get complicated we switch targets to avoid being used as a pivot for a better contract elsewhere. That's how United should work. We're not cheap however we're not the top guns in the transfer market. If Real, PSG, Chelsea, Barcelona or Bayern want our target then they will probably get him. So there's no point in entangle ourselves into a saga we will probably lose

I agree that our transfer strategy last summer was bad but the fact that Everton were holding out until the last hours of the window before accepting our bid does not strike me as a team desperate to sell a player.

 

[devilish]

I agree that our transfer strategy last summer was bad but the fact that Everton were holding out until the last hours of the window before accepting our bid does not strike me as a team desperate to sell a player.

They were desperate to get Mccarthy. However they knew that we were more desperate then they were and could therefore afford to hold out. Everton expectations are different to ours. The fans know that club has to sell before buying and to be fair Everton did well in transfer market by getting Martinez, Barry, Lukaku and Deulofou.

United on the other had just lost SAF, brought a nobody, failed to bring in Fabregas and were desperate to at least sign someone. Moyes is renowned for being cautious especially in terms of transfers. He would only sign players whom he had scouted for quite some time and at that point the list was pretty restricted