did The Sun ever publish an apology?
I hope the families sue them
I hope the families sue them
Hillsborough Inquests verdict - 96 Unlawfully Killed.
- Thread starter Xaviesta
- Start date
The attitude towards the Hillsborough victims among what might be called the establishment is really very strange. There was a "us vs them" vibe from the start that seems very odd given the people involved are their fellow countrymen.
It actually reminds me a bit of NI, where there was a distinct sense that the other side were inherently different and were treated as such.
Not sure if it was because they were football fans, because they were working class, because they were from Liverpool or whatever else it could be. Seems very strange from an outsider point of view though. Maybe it says something about society in the UK, then and now?
It actually reminds me a bit of NI, where there was a distinct sense that the other side were inherently different and were treated as such.
Not sure if it was because they were football fans, because they were working class, because they were from Liverpool or whatever else it could be. Seems very strange from an outsider point of view though. Maybe it says something about society in the UK, then and now?
They did
All of those things, really.
Mayor of Liverpool gave em all hell at the memorial service, fair play.
Amazing scenes in Liverpool tonight. Incredible emotions and unity. Brought a tear to my eye and made me feel very emotional.
I don't know how to intetnet betting. - can somebody help me as I want to put £50 on Liverpool winning the PL next year.... I have a feeling this outpouring of positive emotion and closure for the JF-96 will inspire the team all the way to the title next year.
I don't know how to intetnet betting. - can somebody help me as I want to put £50 on Liverpool winning the PL next year.... I have a feeling this outpouring of positive emotion and closure for the JF-96 will inspire the team all the way to the title next year.
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Hmm. I'd wait a bit
Seriously incredible effort from everyone concerned. 27 years and no matter how much shit got thrown on them and however unlikely it looked, however many people died before they could see justice they never let off even for a second.
We can joke all we like about Scousers, but that banner when Thatcher died was right, they picked on the wrong fecking city with that one.
We can joke all we like about Scousers, but that banner when Thatcher died was right, they picked on the wrong fecking city with that one.
I could barely see the "sorry"They did
Big deal! Leave the poor guy alone. Im sure he has shed many a tear for those who died and done enormous work on behalf of them since.
It's a nothing story.
Anyone have an email address or way to contact him? I'd like to write to him
This happened when I was 16. I remember turning on the telly to find out the latest on scores only to be confronted with those scenes. It was one of those moments where I wanted to look away but could not. I remember my Brother being confused as to why I wanted to watch the memorial service as in his words, I was not even a Liverpool supporter (he did not like football one bit and I suspect he had not grasped the enormity of the tragedy afterall he was only 14). But something like that transcends rivalaries. These were hunam beings. I recall the 20th anniversary with Andy Burnham and the first time I dared to view the coverage that they showed of the events. Though not for long. Yesterday I watched some of the footage again. Why, I am not sure, but I did. What took me by suprise was the commentry. In that I could recall everthing that was said. From Motson to Jimmy Hill. The comments on the Notts Forest supporters still singing as they did not know what was going on. I wish that we could all stop the dreadful chanting that occurs in matches today. I am not referring to any particular set of fans as sadly there is an element in all that will shout these chants. What it achieves is beyond me. Sorry, gone slightly off there. I guess yesterday has brought alot back and if I fell so sad like this I cannot even comprehend what those so close to it have been feeling for the past 27 years.
I was at a game that day, and when they read out the half time scores, they said something like "We are not too sure why but the FA Cup Semi has been abandoned, there are stories of potential crowd disturbances" or words to that effect, it was only on the way home the news hit home what had actually happened listening to the radio and then when i got home and turned on the TV the full horror of it became apparent. I don't have any children, but to wave your son/daughter off to a football match in the morning, never to see them again, I think only the ones it happened to can fully comprehend how that actually feels.
One of the most telling things about this was his call for Kelvin McKenzie to be fired for allowing the story to be published.
Earlier on 5Live McKenzie was interviewed and I simply ccouldn't believe the lack of responsibility on his part; anything but take the blame. He claimed the Sun had been duped and that's all he could say. Yhe arrogance of the man even now was staggering!
If you read the short bio for each person who died (it's on the BBC website), a handful of them had received their tickets as birthday presents. The guilt on the shoulders of the parents who will feel like they sent their children to their death is unfathomable.
This is another good piece by the Guardian - short biographies of the victims: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...tims-the-96-people-whose-lives-were-cut-short.
As a father of two, I find this all very disturbing to read. This for example: "Thomas Howard, 39 "Thomas Howard was married and had three children; his oldest, Tommy Jr, 14, died with him in “pen” three of the Leppings Lane terrace at Hillsborough. David Lackey, another Liverpool supporter trapped in the crush next to them, recalled Tommy Sr repeatedly saying: “My son, my son.” His other son, Alan, and sister, Muriel Bellamy, remembered Tommy Sr as a doting father, hardworking, known as “gentle giant” at work. “It is saddening that he isn’t with us to see his beautiful granchildren, his grandson being given his first name in his and our brother’s memory,” Alan told the inquests, “all because they only went to watch a game of football.” Read more on Thomas’s story here. Read David Conn’s report from the inquest here.".
His last experience of life - watching his son crushed to death, whilst helpless to do anything about it. The cover up of what really happened is simply disgusting.
As a father of two, I find this all very disturbing to read. This for example: "Thomas Howard, 39 "Thomas Howard was married and had three children; his oldest, Tommy Jr, 14, died with him in “pen” three of the Leppings Lane terrace at Hillsborough. David Lackey, another Liverpool supporter trapped in the crush next to them, recalled Tommy Sr repeatedly saying: “My son, my son.” His other son, Alan, and sister, Muriel Bellamy, remembered Tommy Sr as a doting father, hardworking, known as “gentle giant” at work. “It is saddening that he isn’t with us to see his beautiful granchildren, his grandson being given his first name in his and our brother’s memory,” Alan told the inquests, “all because they only went to watch a game of football.” Read more on Thomas’s story here. Read David Conn’s report from the inquest here.".
His last experience of life - watching his son crushed to death, whilst helpless to do anything about it. The cover up of what really happened is simply disgusting.
Yeah. He told his missus "He'll be ok, he's with me" as well before setting off.
I think feelings of guilt are an overlooked issue when it comes to Hillsborough. The media tends to talk mainly about the families of the victims but I think many of the survivors who were in the crush but escaped suffer every bit as much, because of the guilt many of them feel for being able to save themselves - as clearly did this man, for not dissimilar reasons.Just discovered the truly heartbreaking story about the 97th victim of Hillsborough tragedy.
Stephen Whittle was a Liverpool fan who sold his ticket on the day to a mate, who then died in the crush. 4 and a half years ago he killed himself because he felt guilty about selling him the ticket, and had lived with depression and anxiety caused by it for years.
He left £61,000 to the Hillsborough memorial trust in his will.
Both feet firmly placed in mouth
Hillsborough inquests: Families angry as retired police told 'be proud'
"The message on the website of the South Yorkshire branch of the National Association of Retired Police Officers (Narpo) was made public by accident."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36156906
Hillsborough inquests: Families angry as retired police told 'be proud'
"The message on the website of the South Yorkshire branch of the National Association of Retired Police Officers (Narpo) was made public by accident."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36156906
They did, then re-hired Kelvin MacKenzie.
Can't imagine what those poor families went through.
There's a big fuss now about a police officer leaving a message to the other police that were there that day telling them they should feel proud or something. I can see why its seen as insensitive, but at the same time for a normal copper there just on crowd control to be thrust into the middle of such mass suffering and death must have been extremely traumatic, and I'm sure they did save a lot of lives in the aftermath.
There's a big fuss now about a police officer leaving a message to the other police that were there that day telling them they should feel proud or something. I can see why its seen as insensitive, but at the same time for a normal copper there just on crowd control to be thrust into the middle of such mass suffering and death must have been extremely traumatic, and I'm sure they did save a lot of lives in the aftermath.
Do sympathise with this view. It's those in charge who made the decisions that were to blame. Not those who were just doing what they'd been told to do. I can understand South Yorkshire Police wishing to console members of the police who were there that day. I can also understand why it being made public is hurtful to those grieving though.Can't imagine what those poor families went through.
There's a big fuss now about a police officer leaving a message to the other police that were there that day telling them they should feel proud or something. I can see why its seen as insensitive, but at the same time for a normal copper there just on crowd control to be thrust into the middle of such mass suffering and death must have been extremely traumatic, and I'm sure they did save a lot of lives in the aftermath.
They can't. The law on defamation doesn't extend to dead people so anyone can say what they like.
What an incredibly stupid thing to say.
It is a valid point regarding the normal SYP officer who was on duty at Hillsborough. One of the enduring images I have of that day is watching one young copper giving cpr & the kiss of life to a dying fan. This went on for over 5 minutes before he eventually stood up & slowly shook his head to a relative/friend who was frantically pacing back & forth with his hands on his head as he watched the copper's vain attempts at saving his friend/relative. The poor bloke fell to knees obviously distraught, & the young police officer stayed with him trying to console him as best he could. There were many other instances of policemen & women doing their very best in extremely harrowing & difficult circumstances. It's very sad their efforts haven't been recognized in what has been a tidal wave of lies & deceit.Can't imagine what those poor families went through.
There's a big fuss now about a police officer leaving a message to the other police that were there that day telling them they should feel proud or something. I can see why its seen as insensitive, but at the same time for a normal copper there just on crowd control to be thrust into the middle of such mass suffering and death must have been extremely traumatic, and I'm sure they did save a lot of lives in the aftermath.
I don't understand how they can definitely say that the supporters' behaviour wasn't at any fault. Some wanted to get in free of charge and took advantage of the situation.
Nevertheless, those people would not have died if it wasn't for the police forces inept handling of the whole thing, and the way they covered it up shouldn't ever be forgotten. I'm glad there's finally been justice for the 96.
Nevertheless, those people would not have died if it wasn't for the police forces inept handling of the whole thing, and the way they covered it up shouldn't ever be forgotten. I'm glad there's finally been justice for the 96.
But that kind of thing was commonplace for matches at that time, especially big matches, and should therefore have been foreseen & planned for accordingly.
The inquiry examined tens if not hundreds of thousands of pieces of evidence over the course of two years, the longest inquiry in British history. I think it's safe to assume that there wasn't evidence that some wanted to get in free of charge.
To go further, the Hillsborough Independent Panel already concluded in 2012 that no fans were responsible in any way for the disaster, so to petition to even include this question in the subsequent inquiry was just another example of the police cover up.
I can see how people still find it hard to believe the truth, the lies were told by people in positions of power and trust over the course of decades. But that is all they are, lies, the evidence is overwhelming.
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Did anyone see Red Issue tweeting shite again last night. Need to wind their neck in on this.
Let's not forget our contemptible and useless FA. The best you can say is they're "not fit for purpose".
The FA needs taking apart & sorting out. Gregg Dyke? David Davies? You're having a laugh. It's a gravy train buoyed up by the seas of sponsorship money.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-on-hillsborough-are-inadequate-a7003826.html
The FA needs taking apart & sorting out. Gregg Dyke? David Davies? You're having a laugh. It's a gravy train buoyed up by the seas of sponsorship money.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-on-hillsborough-are-inadequate-a7003826.html
I didn't, but I did see a bit of a hulabaloo on twitter earlier when someone claimed that the club intends to play You'll Never Walk Alone before the Leicester game.
For real?
The Sun seeks to blame anyone bar themselves; the rest of the media act as if the shaping of public opinion is nothing to do with them; the FA keeps its head beneath the parapets, in case the scrutiny is turned on them; and the politicians roll out the platitudes and the coached sincerity. Plus ca change.
I doubt it's true, but some people are talking about it on twitter as if it is.
Why? I see some sense in it, they'll obv be feeling guilt and regret about it. A lot will have tried their best at the time and just took orders from superiors. The cover ups sounds as if they were from higher up and not the average police officer. Don't see the need to possibly cause some of those officers to feel worse than they already do.
Some probably shouldn't feel proud of their actions, but I expect there will be a lot more who tried their very best.
I imagine a lot of them being young at the time and probably inexperienced, lacked proper leadership. They may have learned a lot from the ordeal, and went on to had a good career in the police force.
Policing a game such as that with so few officers and from what I gather, awful planning from the games/grounds perspective, was always going to be a mental task. You can't place the blame solely on the police, there are way too many factors, they're just getting the brunt of it because people feel having someone to blame is closure.
I agree with the verdict before everyone gets their knickers in a twist.
I feel we will get a lot of "fans angered at x y z" for the next couple of weeks.
This.
I am glad that the families have justice and that prosecutions of those in positions of responsibility will now rightly follow.
But I am uncomfortable with the level and breadth of the vitriol being aimed at the South Yorkshire Police in general.
Fair play and thanks to everyone for their kind words.
This thread has been posted on RAWK also.
This thread has been posted on RAWK also.
Anne Williams will be looking down proud as punch, an absolutely remarkable woman.
At last. Hope this helps the families, shame it came too late for many. Burnham made a really good speech in the commons about it yesterday.
Be interesting if this opens up other examples of media/police smears collusion like Orgreave etc.
Be interesting if this opens up other examples of media/police smears collusion like Orgreave etc.
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The families have always given credit to the individual police officers and paramedics who attended to their loved ones. I don't think they're going to target everyone on duty that day.