How come Ole can only get a semi? | Can he finally go all the way?

[dal]

Comments like these don't make sense, the players were outfought on multiple fronts today. A few were glaringly bad but Pogba wasn't one of them. Just accept that it was a crap team performance instead of singling players out.

Pogba was good today yes but even though I believe on the left of a three is his best position, if Grealish had been there we would have won

Pogba was probably our best player but okay...

100 percent he played very well but rashford looked a lot more dangerous and if we had Grealish on that right wing I think we would have won.

I think that is pogba’s best position, he holds onto it very well, I think he could be of use upfront aswell.

Greenwood looked very sharp when he came on aswell which was encouraging.

 

[Red00012]

Pogba was good today yes but even though I believe on the left of a three is his best position, if Grealish had been there we would have won



100 percent he played very well but rashford looked a lot more dangerous and if we had Grealish on that right wing I think we would have won.

I think that is pogba’s best position, he holds onto it very well, I think he could be of use upfront aswell.

Greenwood looked very sharp when he came on aswell which was encouraging.

If we Haaland up front we would have won
If we had VVD at the back we would have won
If we had KDB we would have won

 

[dal]

If we Haaland up front we would have won
If we had VVD at the back we would have won
If we had KDB we would have won

Disagree with the latter two however Haaland is a good shout.

Haaland and grealish do solve our attacking problems and they are gettable.

 

[Andycoleno9]

This is a problem now. Especially that in 3 of those semis we were not even close. Only against Sevilla we looked great and fired up

 

[Baneofthegame]

Just played a team who were better than us on the day, nothing more.

 

[Lentwood]

So, you've literally written off 4 semi final losses in a row like they don't actually count.
Funny.

Would you feel better about it if we had got knocked out before the semi-final like the other 100+ teams?

 

[Isotope]

To answer the OP question, maybe Semi is actually his Final.

 

[The Urban Goose]

This "Ole can't get past the semis" thing is being completely overblown.

Last season arguably we should not have reached the semis of anything given that we were playing with Lingard, Jones, Pereira etc. for much of the season.

Last night we came up against a better team, City are clearly back in form having just destroyed Chelsea, and Martial was on another of his disappearing acts (had Cavani been available it might have been different). If we had lost against Spurs or Brentford, there might be an argument to be made.

We are joint top with a game in hand. Our record against "top" teams is generally very good despite having arguably an inferior spine (would any of those take Lindelof, Maguire, McT, Fred or Martial over their equivalents?).

Why does everything have to be negative against Ole? We are improving but we're by no means that finished article, we still need to improve in key positions.

Lets get through another summer, if it stays the same next season after a couple more recruits, there might be something in it, but until then can't we just appreciate that we are getting to semis in the first place? Where were Liverpool, Chelsea etc. for instance.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Just played a team who were better than us on the day, nothing more.

Oh hello Michael Owen.

 

[RashyForPM]

This "Ole can't get past the semis" thing is being completely overblown.

Last season arguably we should not have reached the semis of anything given that we were playing with Lingard, Jones, Pereira etc. for much of the season.

Last night we came up against a better team, City are clearly back in form having just destroyed Chelsea, and Martial was on another of his disappearing acts (had Cavani been available it might have been different). If we had lost against Spurs or Brentford, there might be an argument to be made.

We are joint top with a game in hand. Our record against "top" teams is generally very good despite having arguably an inferior spine (would any of those take Lindelof, Maguire, McT, Fred or Martial over their equivalents?).

Why does everything have to be negative against Ole? We are improving but we're by no means that finished article, we still need to improve in key positions.

Lets get through another summer, if it stays the same next season after a couple more recruits, there might be something in it, but until then can't we just appreciate that we are getting to semis in the first place? Where were Liverpool, Chelsea etc. for instance.

I don’t think anyone’s concerned about our current league position or losing semis to City. It’s the semi losses to lesser teams like Chelsea and Sevilla that is more worrying. Just shows a lack of a winning mentality when we can achieve something, although I do think the Carabao Cup is a nothing competition which should become a pre-season one to give the lower league teams more money.

On a lighter note, we need some viagra because we can’t get past a semi.

 

[rotherham_red]

Jose knocked out City on his way to win the league cup in 16/17.

The whole idea that Ole hasn't had the easiest of routes is just a flimsy excuse. If he played Bailly tonight, it would have been a different outcome.
Some of these failures are Ole's own fault of failing to see that Maguire and Lindelof simply don't work - they are slow, lethargic & ponderous.

Bailly's made of balsa wood and played 4 games in little over a week. He needed resting.

Likewise, Ole has beaten the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal in his cup runs, so it's not like he had it easy himself. He also didn't face the City team that was comprised of kids and leftovers from Pellegrini's time at the club that Jose faced.

 

[DRM]

Ole called it out perfectly yesterday in his post match interview, we came up against a better team with better players than us and we have some way to go before we are at that level.

I agree with that, but what's concerning for me is that when it comes to crunch time, when it really matters, Ole's got it wrong. The 4 semi final losses, the defeats to PSG and Leipzig (which was shambolic) all attest to that. This is not a mentality issue, this is a quality issue with the manager. People will no doubt point to the fact that we're joint top of the league, but really, in your heart of hearts, without your red blinkers on, do you really think we can win the league?

 

[SuperiorXI]

I'm in agreement, no slant on Ole tonite City were simply better and proves what I've been saying for a while, we still need 3, maybe 4 players to take on City & Liverpool. We've improved, but that is all. If we could only get Grealish - Haaland and a bloody good CB Id be very very happy.

That's pretty much it, if we had a better 11 last night we would have been able to go toe to toe with City. I don't think it's a case of we didn't show up, it looked like the energy, fight and quality was all there - but it looked like that for City too and they just had better players.

The players you mention would be perfect. Can't see us getting them though unfortunately!

 

[SuperiorXI]

Ole called it out perfectly yesterday in his post match interview, we came up against a better team with better players than us and we have some way to go before we are at that level.

I agree with that, but what's concerning for me is that when it comes to crunch time, when it really matters, Ole's got it wrong. The 4 semi final losses, the defeats to PSG and Leipzig (which was shambolic) all attest to that. This is not a mentality issue, this is a quality issue with the manager. People will no doubt point to the fact that we're joint top of the league, but really, in your heart of hearts, without your red blinkers on, do you really think we can win the league?

If we don't get players in January then we've got no chance. City are having an upturn in form and will catch us in no time. Re Liverpool, it's just a question of when they can regain their form... if it's any time soon they'll also easily catch us. Both MCFC and LFC have better teams than us.

 

[Mihai]

3 times, why can't he go all the way?

Sildenafil can help with this.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Hold on,

Folk on here are trying to suggest that getting knocked out in four semi-finals is a 'negative' for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Seriously, winning more cup games than any club in England since his appointment is a negative now, is it?

You guys..... Come on! Cop on.

Maybe we should go out in the third round of these competitions so you guys don't get so riled up about making it to the last four.

 

[Greck]

Ole called it out perfectly yesterday in his post match interview, we came up against a better team with better players than us and we have some way to go before we are at that level.

I agree with that, but what's concerning for me is that when it comes to crunch time, when it really matters, Ole's got it wrong. The 4 semi final losses, the defeats to PSG and Leipzig (which was shambolic) all attest to that. This is not a mentality issue, this is a quality issue with the manager. People will no doubt point to the fact that we're joint top of the league, but really, in your heart of hearts, without your red blinkers on, do you really think we can win the league?

You know one could also say we came up against a better manager but heading into the tie no united fan was rationalizing Pep being a better manager as why we should expect to lose. You know why? because to win a semi we don't have to be better on paper, we just have to put in the better performance over 90 minutes.

Imo it's a crap explanation for losing and an even worse one for losing 4 semifinals. I just hope United fans aren't willing to bin the other cups till we finally get an easy draw. The gap between the sides we're losing to aren't big. It's teams like 08 Barca you lose to and say we couldn't have expected a different outcome not Sevilla and Fat Frank's chelsea

 

[Sassy Colin]

Maybe Ole needs to do a bit more of this sort of thing?

 

[leontas]

A bit worrying that we can't seem to take that next step. Granted we didn't deserve anything from the game last night, but I was disappointed we didn't put up more of a fight.
Concerning that Ole's now lost more domestic semi-finals in 12 months as SAF did in 26 years. On the one hand, it's a testament to his ability to get us there in the first place, but does he instill the hunger and desire in the players to take their chance? Until he wins us a trophy, I'm not too convinced.

 

[The Uncle of All Uncles]

It's disappointing, but I've always felt that Utd are currently in the position that Liverpool were in the mid-late 90's under Roy Evans. They had a team of very good players at the time (Fowler, McManaman, Collymore, Owen, Berger, etc.) and sometimes they'd go on a run and you'd think they're getting somewhere. In the end, they never did, and they remained a group of 'nearly-men'.

I hope it doesn't take 20+ years for Utd to get back to the top, but I feel we're going in circles right now. Yes, there's progress. But it's scattershot and doesn't really seem to me like there's a strong foundation being built. There's got to be some tell-tale signs of what happens when a club/team go from being pretty good to great. Think of Arsenal in '98 after Wenger arrived. Chelsea in '04. City in '12. Liverpool in '19. I hope Utd don't end up like the famous Newcastle 'entertainers' under Keegan. Or Liverpool for 30 years. Or Arsenal post-Invincibles.

 

[hobbers]

We'll never win semi finals or finals against decent sides when we've got Martial playing number 9.

 

[rotherham_red]

More context needed especially for LVG FA campaign.

It was also a crazy season then where teams beat teams. West Ham was a team that defeated big teams throughout the season in the league. They were in the mix for top 4 finish that season until very late on. They're the one who killed our top 4 finish, remember? In FA Cup they beat Liverpool in earlier round. They're no pushover.

Similarly, Everton eliminated Chelsea who in turn destroyed Man City in earlier round.

Celta Vigo eliminated Real Madrid (won Double that season) in Copa Del Rey. They also beat Barcelona once in La Liga. Barcelona lost title to Real Madrid by 3 points (Barcelona won head to head, so if they're both level on point, Barcelona won the title).

These teams were no mere pushovers in those seasons, like their poorer seasons suggest.

I'll give you West Ham, but Everton weren't much cop that season and we easily beat them home and away in the league that year.

Generally though, you are referring to these cup games as proof of these teams being good. Anybody can beat anybody else on any given day. That is what a cup competition is all about. Likewise, Ole has beaten some damn good teams himself in his cup runs - Arsenal and Chelsea twice off the top of my head. Everton this season too, who are very well placed in the league themselves.

Irrespective I'm not even talking about the cup runs either, but the quality of the opponents in the semi finals themselves. Surely you aren't arguing that the teams you listed in your post are of a comparable quality to Chelsea at the back end of 19/20 and Pep's City, as well as a Sevilla team who have an almost irrational stranglehold on the EL?

 

[rotherham_red]

He doesn't know what to do when the game isnt going his way. Sevilla apart because we actually played well that day, The Chelsea and City games are similar. Team doesn't play well on the day, Ole doesn't make any tactical or formation changes and we end up not doing enough.

Except we did make those changes. Greenwood came on for McTominay and we went 4-3-3. He held off making the change earlier because we were putting them under pressue after they scored and it looked like an opportunity was coming for us to get back in the game. Once that period went, the changes were made.

We lost because while we played well up to a point, we just have too many holes in the team that a properly good team like City can't help but exploit.

 

[Sassy Colin]

We'll never win semi finals or finals against decent sides when we've got Martial playing number 9.

This is your contribution to the debate, is it?

 

[croadyman]

Because he keeps messing up in game management in those games

 

[Renegade]

Ole called it out perfectly yesterday in his post match interview, we came up against a better team with better players than us and we have some way to go before we are at that level.

I agree with that, but what's concerning for me is that when it comes to crunch time, when it really matters, Ole's got it wrong. The 4 semi final losses, the defeats to PSG and Leipzig (which was shambolic) all attest to that. This is not a mentality issue, this is a quality issue with the manager. People will no doubt point to the fact that we're joint top of the league, but really, in your heart of hearts, without your red blinkers on, do you really think we can win the league?

Hmm player for player was that City side much better than our players? The biggest disparity between the two sides is the quality of the managers if we’re honest. 2 games ago people were saying this City team was washed. This City team without Ederson, Walker, Laporte, Bernado and a recognised striker.

 

[DRM]

Hmm player for player was that City side much better than our players? The biggest disparity between the two sides is the quality of the managers if we’re honest. 2 games ago people were saying this City team was washed. This City team without Ederson, Walker, Laporte, Bernado and a recognised striker.

I think so.

Their front three is better than ours (or certainly on the day were better than ours) - KDB, Mahrez and Sterling vs Bruno, Martial and Rashford

Their midfield - fernandinho did more defensive work than both of Fred and Mctom put together!

Defensively - stones and diaz were great, diaz in particular.

But what you said is also correct. Pep is a WC manager, a serial winner and yesterday he simply wanted it more than Ole. You could see his motivation from the 1st minute on the touchline

 

[Bilbo]

Ole called it out perfectly yesterday in his post match interview, we came up against a better team with better players than us and we have some way to go before we are at that level.

I agree with that, but what's concerning for me is that when it comes to crunch time, when it really matters, Ole's got it wrong. The 4 semi final losses, the defeats to PSG and Leipzig (which was shambolic) all attest to that. This is not a mentality issue, this is a quality issue with the manager. People will no doubt point to the fact that we're joint top of the league, but really, in your heart of hearts, without your red blinkers on, do you really think we can win the league?

Isn't it incredibly refreshing that we are even talking about whether we can win the league, whilst actually having a good chance of winning it?

 

[el3mel]

I think so.

Their front three is better than ours (or certainly on the day were better than ours) - KDB, Mahrez and Sterling vs Bruno, Martial and Rashford

Their midfield - fernandinho did more defensive work than both of Fred and Mctom put together!

Defensively - stones and diaz were great, diaz in particular.

But what you said is also correct. Pep is a WC manager, a serial winner and yesterday he simply wanted it more than Ole. You could see his motivation from the 1st minute on the touchline

Mahrez was absolutely terrible yesterday and in general City fans consider him a massive flop. I was checking Bluemoon during half time and they were slaughtering him.

Rashford and Sterling are on the same level I believe. KDB is better than Bruno though, but Bruno has been one of PL's best players this season.

 

[Jackal]

Bailly's made of balsa wood and played 4 games in little over a week. He needed resting.

Likewise, Ole has beaten the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal in his cup runs, so it's not like he had it easy himself. He also didn't face the City team that was comprised of kids and leftovers from Pellegrini's time at the club that Jose faced.

That's a terrible argument.

You keep playing your best defender no matter what. City was our toughest opponents in the next run of fixtures and it was a game coming after 5-6 days of rest.
Why not start Bailly against City and rest him in the next game instead of tolerating Lindelof who is a liability. Even when Victor was fully-fit, he was poor. He lacks the aggression and the composure Bailly has got. No way Bailly wouldn't have attempted to cut out the cross leading to the first goal. Lindelof left it cos he's super scared of making a mistake.

 

[rotherham_red]

That's a terrible argument.

You keep playing your best defender no matter what. City was our toughest opponents in the next run of fixtures and it was a game coming after 5-6 days of rest.
Why not start Bailly against City and rest him in the next game instead of tolerating Lindelof who is a liability. Even when Victor was fully-fit, he was poor. He lacks the aggression and the composure Bailly has got. No way Bailly wouldn't have attempted to cut out the cross leading to the first goal. Lindelof left it cos he's super scared of making a mistake.

It's not a terrible argument because guess what, he's been shown to be unreliable in his fitness in the close to four years he's been here.

City may well have been the toughest opponents on paper but they weren't the priority, the league was.

I agree that Bailly is our best defender when fit, but the fact that I have to use that as a qualifier says it all about him. Playing 4 games straight after coming in from the cold, it was asking for trouble if we played him in a 5th all in the space of 10 days, the same way it was asking for trouble to play Rashford through all those games last season while he was carrying a back injury.

Irrespective, I'm not sure why this is such an issue, because both Lindelof and Maguire generally played well yesterday in open play. The issues were with the set pieces, which would have been there with Bailly too.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Just racking up the semi defeats to build up to Ed releasing a brand of ‘pills’ named ‘Ole’ with the slogan ‘when a semis not enough’.

 

[BusbyMalone]

The only one that really stands out to me is the Chelsea one. That was such a meek surrender; it was infuriating to watch. I genuinely think we could've had them and got to that FA Cup final, but just absolutely bottled it big time. In the other games against City, they were just in really good form and when they're on form they're just much better. Simple as that really.

In the Sevilla game, I thought we were really unlucky, to be honest. We played well and easily should've won.

 

[Tyrion]

Glad someone has their heads on right, even after a poor result like tonight.

Thanks.

The Caf sure loved calling Spurs bottlers though.

I may have been guilty of it myself too.

I know and they were daft imo.

Liverpool in their 30 years of no leagues still managed to have a good cup record.

That's a fair point. I'd rather we do better in the league than win a cup tbh. City take the League cup very seriously and we don't have as good a team or manager as them.

 

[Acheron]

He's doing good considering he's a very limited manager so I'm afraid this is the best he can do. Don't think he's good enough for managing a big club but who knows maybe he can grow into the role given enough time.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Is Ole horny enough?

We gooo again!!!11

 

[horsechoker]

Is Ole horny enough?

We gooo again!!!11

He needs to try sex masochism.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Except we did make those changes. Greenwood came on for McTominay and we went 4-3-3. He held off making the change earlier because we were putting them under pressue after they scored and it looked like an opportunity was coming for us to get back in the game. Once that period went, the changes were made.

We lost because while we played well up to a point, we just have too many holes in the team that a properly good team like City can't help but exploit.

We should have made a change at 0-0. He always reacts to the score line and not the game pattern.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Thread/

 

[AgentSmith]

Limp.