How far off is this squad from a title challenge?

[el3mel]

And? Ole can get sacked at any time. It won't make a difference to the scenario as the new manager can come in and the players know they can shirk responsibility and play to the crowd who ultimately absolve them. Their job is to turn up on match day and win games. When they win you can't go "they saved the manager" and when they lose say "stop basing the players" those two scenarios cancel each other out. This is the sort of responsibility shirking that I'm talking about, people jumping to their aid to shout about the manager and absolve them. They're well paid professionals at one of the biggest clubs in the world, not a pub team of tradesmen that need wrangling to turn up on match day not half pissed up from work drinks the night before.

Back to the point at hand, it isn't the manager. It's the players and we're miles off. We're miles off mentally, technically and in terms of personal responsibility. As long as this crop have an audience to play the violins too they know they can play themselves into the bin and come out the bottom into the car park and drive home without a care in the world.

This is honestly nonsense from start to finish. First if the players are stepping up whenever the manager is under pressure proves they aren't shirking any responsibility. If they were, they will sulk whenever we are under pressure too and Ole would have been sacked months ago. You just repeated the same point without providing a reply on the argument? If they were shirking responsibilities they will keep sulking to get the manager out eventually.

And second, the whole notion of players avoiding blame in defeats is not true at all. I don't even know from where some of you are bringing this. Just have a look at performance thread after losses. They all get slaughtered. The likes of Maguire and AWB have been slaughtered after RB game.

You are just rehasing points that are said previously which are simply not true at all. Just repeating them won't make them true as well.

And it's the manager, when you set up in a crucial gamer with 5 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders you can't blame the players for being serial losers after we lost. We set up cowardly to try and play for a draw. It's the manager's responsibility.

 

[sincher]

Yeah I believe so, #1 priority for me. I believe our strikers will improve, we will be scoring more goals from chances we create (and we create enough). But I have little faith in De Gea turning it around - you can disagree on that, but you can't argue he's been consistently poor.

I absolutely can. He has not at all been consistently poor. He had a dodgy patch last season but has been good so far this. Many more pressing issues with the team.

 

[Borys]

I absolutely can. He has not at all been consistently poor. He had a dodgy patch last season but has been good so far this. Many more pressing issues with the team.

I disagree. Take a look at those stats.

 

[Superunknown]

Let's try winning a game at home first before we even think about titles.

 

[SER19]

I think we'll hang in there this season, IF we don't feck up the next few games. Lots of factors come in over a long season obviously but we're 4 points off, no team really excelling, pool and spurs play eachother midweek and we should mix up our team in europa more than others might in CL. We have good depth in lots of positions and if we can pick up about 14+ pts from our next 6

Sheff Utd away
Leeds home
Leicester away
Wolves home
Villa home
Fulham away

That takes us into anfield and by then we should know where we are. If we're there or thereabouts I can't see us just falling off a cliff.

 

[ghaliboy]

I don't even know from where some of you are bringing this.

Of course you don't. Your whole defence is the players aren't responsible for this, don't attack them. Which is continuing to add weight to the point. The club as a whole won't change any of this until this mentality goes. Standards need to be higher and the standard you defend from the players is the standard you accept and those standards are currently in the bin under the bin juice. So we continue on, keep blaming managers, keep calling for the sack and never draw the link that the squad is full of too many overpaid bottlers to ever win anything and make progress.

I've accepted it so it doesn't really bother me anymore. I just find the obsessive defending of players interesting, then the obliviousness of doing it again here interesting as well. It is not really a wonder the club isn't going anywhere at the moment.

 

[HowYouDoin]

We dont have the ambition to win the PL even if we could and this game against City proves it.
A team that wants to win the title would try to win. We played not to lose first and foremost. We would be over the moon with a top 4 finish.

We also just arent consistent enough so despite the talent on the team, top 4 is our ceiling. We likely finish 6th or 7th.

Dont see us finishing above Tottenham, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and likely even Leicester.

 

[el3mel]

Of course you don't. Your whole defence is the players aren't responsible for this, don't attack them. Which is continuing to add weight to the point. The club as a whole won't change any of this until this mentality goes. Standards need to be higher and the standard you defend from the players is the standard you accept and those standards are currently in the bin under the bin juice. So we continue on, keep blaming managers, keep calling for the sack and never draw the link that the squad is full of too many overpaid bottlers to ever win anything and make progress.

I've accepted it so it doesn't really bother me anymore. I just find the obsessive defending of players interesting, then the obliviousness of doing it again here interesting as well. It is not really a wonder the club isn't going anywhere at the moment.

The players aren't "serial losers". That's what I'm talking about. They're not sulking or playing lazy or half arsed. They're trying their best and step up whenever the manager demands a reaction from them. They have never let the manager down whenever he needed them the most.

Mentality comes from the manager, first and foremost. If you're setting up the team to play defensively with cowardly and negative approach to a crucial game, don't blame the players after that then. You set them to fail.

And again, the notion of players escaping the blame is just not true at all. Make some effort and check the performance threads after some losses maybe ? Your point simply doesn't exist.

 

[Cutch]

Need a pacy centre back and proper DM so bad to give us the right platform to push up a bit and play games with a fast tempo. At the minute we're absolutely petrified of our defence

 

[Crashoutcassius]

anything could happen this season. city and liverpool are probably the two best ever premiership sides, but could do nothing in this wierd season, meanwhile we are 7 pts better off than we were this time last year and have shown over and over again we can put great runs together... if we are there or there abouts come the half way point, which is still far away, nothing is out of reach

 

[cyberman]

We are there, whether a portion of our fanbase likes it or not.
We and City should get up the table in the next 4 or 5 weeks, see where we all are then

 

[Kyonn]

A top striker away. If we had a prime RVP we would be in 1st.

 

[Enfant terrible]

This is a title challenging side

 

[Volumiza]

A top striker away. If we had a prime RVP we would be in 1st.

RVP would have at least got a shot off from that amazing pass that saw Rashford stutter and dive for the disallowed penalty.

I agree with you. But I’d also ask for another top forward to play either left or right of the striker.

 

[RedIan]

A right winger, class fast centre back, Holding midfielder and Haaland - and we are closer.

 

[Mainoldo]

A manager. Save a lot of money to.

 

[cyberman]

Game in hand win will take us above Chelsea..

 

[ghaliboy]

@el3mel you're just going round in circles to blame the manager. When this squad wins something and then emulates it again, hell I'll even meet you half way when this team actually puts a good run of wins together without a gut punch moment that comes after every month of good progress I'll come back and we can discuss it some more. Even if we get a new manager with the same core of players we can re-visit it. See you in 2027.

 

[el3mel]

@el3mel you're just going round in circles to blame the manager. When this squad wins something and then emulates it again, hell I'll even meet you half way when this team actually puts a good run of wins together without a gut punch moment that comes after every month of good progress I'll come back and we can discuss it some more. Even if we get a new manager with the same core of players we can re-visit it. See you in 2027.

Ok then, feel free to disagree I guess. No problem for me.

 

[432JuanMata]

Not far off but never finishing ahead of Liverpool they are 4 points ahead and have injuries and haven’t even played that well. I see Spurs finishing ahead of us too and city will get themselves together enough to get 3rd or so

 

[TheRedHearted]

Haaland, Sancho, Graelish. Play Bruno with Graelish and Fred and all should be clear imo. If Martial or Greenwood had continued what they did last season we would be in a nice position on the table.

 

[CM]

We're not a million miles away but we still have a squad that's a little disjointed and lacks quality in a couple of positions.

A good right winger is still the most notable deficiency this squad has. The defence needs looking at too, and we'll need a replacement for Pogba when he inevitably ends up leaving.

 

[Pretzels81]

Same problem that began in February 2019: lack of consistency.

 

[Møllemanden]

There is a lack of competition in the squad at the moment. Lots and lots of players, but the quality of our reserves is not brilliant. That was obvious today as Ole only used one sub. We're not getting the amount of goals this year that Tony and Mason provided last season. I know the defence has been questionable this season, but if we had better attackers, we would force the opposition further back. There is no fear factor at all. I'm not sure who we should sign, but there is no threat at all from our RW and ST. It's no help either that our first choice RB offers absolutely nothing going forward. None of our attackers has scored a goal at Old Trafford in the PL this season. That says it all.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

A right winger, class fast centre back, Holding midfielder and Haaland - and we are closer.

Wow. And just “closer”

 

[lysglimt]

Certainly not far - if we had a prolific striker up front, we would probably be close

 

[lysglimt]

This is honestly nonsense from start to finish. First if the players are stepping up whenever the manager is under pressure proves they aren't shirking any responsibility. If they were, they will sulk whenever we are under pressure too and Ole would have been sacked months ago. You just repeated the same point without providing a reply on the argument? If they were shirking responsibilities they will keep sulking to get the manager out eventually.

And second, the whole notion of players avoiding blame in defeats is not true at all. I don't even know from where some of you are bringing this. Just have a look at performance thread after losses. They all get slaughtered. The likes of Maguire and AWB have been slaughtered after RB game.

You are just rehasing points that are said previously which are simply not true at all. Just repeating them won't make them true as well.

And it's the manager, when you set up in a crucial gamer with 5 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders you can't blame the players for being serial losers after we lost. We set up cowardly to try and play for a draw. It's the manager's responsibility.

But if you are to believe a lot of people here, OGS is at best mediocre. So if we are 4 points behinds the leaders after 11 matches - clearly we can't be far away. At least if we assume that the difference between a mediocre and a brilliant manager should be the difference between drawing and winning a few matches.

 

[432JuanMata]

Haaland, Sancho, Graelish. Play Bruno with Graelish and Fred and all should be clear imo. If Martial or Greenwood had continued what they did last season we would be in a nice position on the table.

Yeah I agree but the problem is you named 3 players worth about 300million most teams who are 5-8th could say the same. We are miles off a title challenge which is disappointing

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

We dont have the ambition to win the PL even if we could and this game against City proves it.
A team that wants to win the title would try to win. We played not to lose first and foremost. We would be over the moon with a top 4 finish.

We also just arent consistent enough so despite the talent on the team, top 4 is our ceiling. We likely finish 6th or 7th.

Dont see us finishing above Tottenham, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and likely even Leicester.

Based on your logic city also doesn’t want to win the title because today they played not to lose first and foremost. The same goes with Chelsea when they played against us & spurs. You need to be more consistent on your view & logic here, you don’t see us finishing above Chelsea & city because of the logic and yet those two actually approached the games the same way.

 

[The_Midfielder]

If Cavani scores 20+ goals in the league, we will win it...

 

[lex talionis]

We’re far away off. It’s not just the lack of top quality in key positions but a definite sense of indifference from management to the players.

A shame.

 

[Red_Orchestra]

IMO we're really not that far off because there isn't a solid favorite to lift the trophy, this years title race is wide open and there's no guaranteed victors.
Who ever the winner will be at the end, it will be a very close race between 3 or 4 teams.

Well anything can happen, we might get our shit together and stay consistently in form.

 

[AshRK]

Next 6 games in PL before we play Liverpool are make or break. Leicester away is the trickiest but rest we should be winning it. And if we end up with minimum 14 points out of 18, we will be there and thereabouts.

But I don't think this manager and squad is capable of winning the league. The fact that we couldn't get 1 point from 6 against PSG and Leipzig is not a good look. When the pressure comes I don't trust thesw lots.

 

[Bobcat]

Earlier this season we leaked like a sieve, but scored for fun. Yesterday it looked the complete opposite with us being incredibly solid in defense and complete useless in attack. We all saw what Cavani brought in terms of quality CF play, but hes not exactly a youngster

No doubt there are several positions that can be improved upon, but a quality a CF is it imo. Rashford and Greenwood do best as wide forwards

 

[Red14Devil9]

Honestly, this United team should be at the top given the names, but there is just a lack of chemistry and too much inconsistency.

 

[sincher]

I disagree. Take a look at those stats.

Largely meaningless.

 

[Borys]

Largely meaningless.

Care to elaborate? Or just stats in general are meaningless?

You said before "De Gea has been good so far this season". So far it's just your opinion which isn't supported by any evidence.

 

[sincher]

Care to elaborate? Or just stats in general are meaningless?

You said before "De Gea has been good so far this season". So far it's just your opinion which isn't supported by any evidence.

That's right, it is my opinion based on watching the games, and is perfectly valid as an opinion too. It isn't a murder investigation. Anyway look, we disagree. We have two (or more) high class goalkeepers we can rely on and many other issues with the squad.

Besides, the stats that you brought in are largely meaningless. Percentage of shots saved... the numbers are nowhere near high enough to normalize a distribution that accounts for the huge variation in how difficult/possible it is to save a shot. A better stat might be errors that led to goals. I can think of about 2 De Gea has made this season, and none in recent matches. Plus of course there is the fact that he has more than proven himself across several seasons, making it most likely that any dip in form is temporary.

 

[Borys]

That's right, it is my opinion based on watching the games, and is perfectly valid as an opinion too. It isn't a murder investigation. Anyway look, we disagree. We have two (or more) high class goalkeepers we can rely on and many other issues with the squad.

There's no denying your opinion can be valid. But I showed you the facts through data, not an opinion. And you said it's "meaningless" because, well, you don't see it with your eyes.
Fair enough, everybody can have an opinion. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[sincher]

There's no denying your opinion can be valid. But I showed you the facts through data, not an opinion. And you said it's "meaningless" because, well, you don't see it with your eyes.
Fair enough, everybody can have an opinion. Let's agree to disagree.

No your stats are largely meaningless anyway.