How good was Paul Gascoigne

lsd

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Anyone calling Gazza overrated is either too young to have actually watched him play, or has forgotten how good he was. The guy was absolutely ridiculously talented, easily the most naturally gifted English player in modern football.

Saw his entire career and he is easily the most overrated player I can think off.

I can only assume anyone who comes out with such nonsense as he was England greatest talent is judging him on complete hearsay
 

NasirTimothy

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Saw his entire career and he is easily the most overrated player I can think off.

I can only assume anyone who comes out with such nonsense as he was England greatest talent is judging him on complete hearsay
I mean even the Italia 90 stuff gets overrated. I won’t deny that his performances in that tournament were very good but he didn’t score a single goal. Not one.
 

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Would have thought many would put Paul Scholes as the most natural gifted midfield player in any generation but interestingly Gazza seemed to be right up there
 

lsd

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I mean even the Italia 90 stuff gets overrated. I won’t deny that his performances in that tournament were very good but he didn’t score a single goal. Not one.

The whole tournament was overrated especially England that year. As I already said they were just so totally steeped in luck and were constantly outplayed throughout by very average teams.

It's really weird to me how people rate Gascoigne so highly when he was just nowhere near what they seem to think

He was a meme before memes and for some unknown reason people just want to convince themselves he could have been special when he really wasn't
 

NasirTimothy

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Nope, saw him play. Overrated.
The interesting thing about Gazza is that he’s quite delusional about his own ability and standing as well. I recall reading an interview where he said that he was at his best and most confident in the period after the 1990 World Cup. He said that he was ‘definitely the best player in the world’ for a while after that tournament. Bear in mind that at the time you had Maradona (though he was on the slide) Matthaus, Romario, Van Basten, Baggio etc.

Then he was asked who he thought was better than him today (the interview was a few years ago) and he said Messi. But then he said that Messi had the advantage of playing in a really strong Barca team. As if they would have been comparable but for that! :lol:
 

NasirTimothy

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The whole tournament was overrated especially England that year. As I already said they were just so totally steeped in luck and were constantly outplayed throughout by very average teams.

It's really weird to me how people rate Gascoigne so highly when he was just nowhere near what they seem to think

He was a meme before memes and for some unknown reason people just want to convince themselves he could have been special when he really wasn't
Cameroon would have knocked England out but for Gary Lineker diving for a couple of penalties.
 

Chairman Steve

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Not old enough to see him at his supposed pre-injury best. I remember him as the goofy Geordie who famously cried from the media telling me that. The Boro and Everton version of him had flashes of brilliance but mostly a bleh player but he was in his mid 30s by then anyway.

The English press love to hype up players who suffer personal tragedies though and also fits with the eccentric character mold that England loves, so his legacy is inflated a bit more than it really should.

Ferguson seemed to rate him though and has more than once cited him as the best player he never signed, so he probably was a talent in some form… just not the English Maradona as the English press have bigged him up to be over the years.
 

Kentonio

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I mean even the Italia 90 stuff gets overrated. I won’t deny that his performances in that tournament were very good but he didn’t score a single goal. Not one.
Ah yes the modern game, where goal ratio of the only possible indictator of talent..
 

Kentonio

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Ferguson seemed to rate him though and has more than once cited him as the best player he never signed, so he probably was a talent in some form… just not the English Maradona as the English press have bigged him up to be over the years.
Or maybe SAF actually knew quite a lot about football, and Gazza actually was that good?
 

sun_tzu

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We almost signed him in the summer of 1988

When we still had Robson mcgrath and Whiteside

It would probably have been a disaster ... though there would be some crazy stories
 

Pablo76

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He’s currently shacked up with some rich divorcee in my little village, apparently.

Great talent, never achieved close to what he should have though, so not a great player for me.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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From a neutral perspective with absolutely no interest in the way English media can overhype players and how this seems to colour a lot of judgements both ways...from watching old games i think he was obviously a great midfielder in the late 80s/early 90s. He was a dirty player too though, at least after his injury problems, which is the only aspect i don't much like. Loads of deliberate elbows and forearms to opponents face, and a love for the late lunging tackle.

He has a great combination of strong technical skill in terms of shooting/passing, a natural dribbling talent, seeing the game well and great physical ability (before his injuries). Obviously this was undermined by his mentality and serious injuries.
 

NasirTimothy

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Ah yes the modern game, where goal ratio of the only possible indictator of talent..
Who said anything about goal ratio? Most of the time though, when people bleat on about a player having had a legendary World Cup, they’ve usually scored at least one memorable goal. Unless they’re a defender or a goalkeeper.
 

Gio

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Think the calibre of teams he played for after Italy says it all. Borough, rangers and everton
To be fair Rangers had plenty of pulling power at the time. Two years before they’d been a goal away from the Champions League Final. One year prior they signed the winning goalscorer of the previous CL final. And a few months before Gazza joined, Laudrup turned down a move from Rangers to Barcelona. Meanwhile Gascogne snubbed Chelsea to move to Ibrox. Until the late 1990s there simply wasn’t any difference in appeal or quality between Rangers and the top English sides.

Of course he was completely washed up by the end of 1997 which prompted his moves to Middlesbrough and Everton.
 

Sandikan

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When you think people say Rooney didn't achieve what he could have, then you look at Gazza!

His best was a bit before my time, but he was a force of nature pre-injury, from a different era where you could just shove people away on the run.

Shame that ref in the 91 final bottled properly dealing with his first idiotic kick out, as then he might have calmed down and not done that crippler on himself (but also Gary Charles)
 

Kag

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This bizarre idea that Ferguson could have somehow saved Gascoigne from himself is seriously deluded. Gascoigne was and still is a terribly unwell man, and there isn’t a thing a (very good) football manager could have done to prevent that. He’s had all manner of medical intervention and continues to fight his illnesses to this day. Every time I see a thread on the home page, or his name in the news, I make the assumption that he’s dead. Very sad.
 

Wolf1992

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Great player, but i don't think he was better talent than Michael Owen.
 

captaincantona

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Decent player...no better than the likes of LeTissier though...also unreliable. Great to watch...frustrating to follow I’d imagine.
 

Tarrou

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Think the calibre of teams he played for after Italy says it all. Borough, rangers and everton
he was pretty much finished as an elite player by the time he arrived at Rangers due to injury/weight-gain
 

Tarrou

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Was he ever an elite player? I would have said “di canio like maverick“ type...certainly not elite
point is he was never the player he was for Newcastle/Spurs/England pre-injury by the time he got to Rangers, so judging him by the clubs he played for post-Italy is meaningless

he was about half the speed by the time he rocked up at Boro
 

General_Elegancia

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Gascoigne for me is one of the best English playmakers of all time. His height was only 175 centimeters but that's not a problem for him. Like @Gio have said before, he was a very physical player and never afraid of physical challenging even if those guys were Gullit, Lothar ,Rijkaard or anyone else in this planet. His skillset for me was very complete. He could made some of 30-40 yards long passes, had a superb technique, physical strength and great dribbling skills. IMO, in term of skills only, he was the best in last 35 years. Another one that I really like him is he was a playmaker that had a superb workrate, always went to defense and tough as nails. He would be a very fit in modern-games, maybe a very modern 10 ( don't care about his disicipline).

He had a lot of flaws in his lifestyle, that was a reason that he couldn't reach his maximum potentials. On the pitch, he was criticized by media about his aggression on the pitch, unneccesar reckless tackles and inconsistent performances, there are videos in youtube about his reckless tackles. Off the pitch, I would say he was an undisciplined person, always turbulent, never took care himself in the right way that professional athletes should do and he was an alcoholic too, another one he was a bit of injury prone.

I will show some quotes about Gascoigne.

“He had great confidence. You could see he played for the love of the game. But what made him special was the lack of fear in his game. He would try anything, and he would never be scared that something would go wrong. And more than anything else, the love for showing off the abilities that he had, and that’s what lifts him above.”

Gary Liniker about Gascoigne
“He was aggressive, very physical, but at the same time very technical, fantastic characteristics that you need to be a top footballer.”

Jose Mourinho about Gascoigne
“He was always someone I looked up to for the way he played football, and how good he was. I still think, to this day, he’s the greatest England player.”

Rooney about Gascoigne
“He was the best player of his era, a breath of fresh air because he played with a smile. Around 1987, when Newcastle were bobbing above the relegation zone, we played them and my three central midfielders that day were Bryan Robson, Norman Whiteside and Remi Moses – all great footballers, and he just tore them apart. When he nutmegged Moses and patted him on the head, I was out of the dugout shouting, ‘Get that f****** so-and-so!’ Robbo and Whiteside were chasing him up and down the pitch, and they couldn’t get near him.”

Sir Alex Ferguson about Gascoigne
“He ate ice cream for breakfast, drank beer for lunch and when injured he blew up like a whale. But as a player? Oh, beautiful, beautiful. I loved that boy. He was a genius, an artist, but he made me tear my hair out.”

Dino Zoff about Gascoigne
Gerrard named him as his hero.


"Brutal Tackle from him"



 
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General_Elegancia

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I don't think it would have been any different under any other manager. It was impossible to keep Gascoigne on the straight and narrow given his mental health, irrespective of the man in charge. And he worked under strong man-managers in Terry Venables and Walter Smith, who were highly rated by their players for their considerate and effective man management. I suspect Ferguson's approach would have worked well in the short term, and we may well have got a couple more years of peak Gazza, but eventually he'd have become frustrated with his off-the-field shenanigans and the celebrity entourage around him. You can unpick his career and identify moments where a different approach might have led to a different outcome - him going loopy in the run-up to his knee injury against Forest - but ultimately he still struggled with his demons that arose when he was a kid and which were always going to eat away at his time at the top.
If you says other managers apart from him ( even Klopp) , I will reply quickly. Yes

But that is Sir Alex Ferguson, who is for me a god of man-managing. I'm sure he would deal with him really well. I mean I'm not guarantee that Gascoigne under Ferguson would be one of the best players in EPL or he would listen to Sir Alex but Sir Alex would have found a way to deal with his stubborn head like no one else have ever done. Despite Liverpool's fan, I've studied a lot of Sir Alex's man-managing techniques. It's really interesting and there're many ways that I've never expected. :)
 

Gazza

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If you says other managers apart from him ( even Klopp) , I will reply quickly. Yes

But that is Sir Alex Ferguson, who is for me a god of man-managing. I'm sure he would deal with him really well. I mean I'm not guarantee that Gascoigne under Ferguson would be one of the best players in EPL or he would listen to Sir Alex but Sir Alex would have found a way to deal with his stubborn head like no one else have ever done. Despite Liverpool's fan, I've studied a lot of Sir Alex's man-managing techniques. It's really interesting and there're many ways that I've never expected. :)
Man management is not really equivalent to dealing with alcoholism and mental illness, though. Gascoigne needed a mental health professional in an era when it was not commonplace to seek out, especially for men and especially for footballers.
 

studs

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Was a good football player who didn't give a bollicks, but football wasn't his love. The drink was and that sadly done him.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Insanely good footballer. When I hear people talk about Rooney, and when we first signed Rooney as a teen, Gazza is what I was expecting. Of course by joining us, and Gazza opting not to join us, Rooney achieved more. But Gazza was a very special player. He’d just pick the ball up and go past players for fun, could see and pick a pass and control a game from midfield. Once he got running there was only really one way to stop him, foul him. He played at a time when not every game was live on TV and CL wasn’t formed so this is why posters on here are criminally underrating him.

By a distance the most talented English player of the past 40-50 years.
Doesn't say much for English players, then, if Gascoigne is the most talented in half a century.
 

Bondi77

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Great player and a great character but booze got it’s clutches in early on the young man.
Most talented English player I have seen.
 

RC89

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Nowhere near Rooney's level. He was totally overrated you only have to look at the teams he played for and what he achieved to see that.

A decent player that the press latched onto and made a lot more off than he deserved
Well, he literally chose not to play for United so I don't think that's a valid point.
 

ThierryFabregas

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Nowhere near Rooney's level. He was totally overrated you only have to look at the teams he played for and what he achieved to see that.

A decent player that the press latched onto and made a lot more off than he deserved
Maradona must have been a shitter too, played for crap like Napoli :lol::lol::lol:

In all seriousness his talent when he was at Spurs was levels and I mean levels above Rooney. The way he absolutely dominated Holland's incredibly talented midfield in '96 when he was past his best was ridiculous too
 

ThierryFabregas

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If you says other managers apart from him ( even Klopp) , I will reply quickly. Yes

But that is Sir Alex Ferguson, who is for me a god of man-managing. I'm sure he would deal with him really well. I mean I'm not guarantee that Gascoigne under Ferguson would be one of the best players in EPL or he would listen to Sir Alex but Sir Alex would have found a way to deal with his stubborn head like no one else have ever done. Despite Liverpool's fan, I've studied a lot of Sir Alex's man-managing techniques. It's really interesting and there're many ways that I've never expected. :)
I mean SAF might have shipped him out for the alcoholism, which he did with some very talented players. It's hard to say as Gazza is a level above. SAF made exceptions for some of his rules (ie dress code) for Cantona because of how talented he was.
 

lsd

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Maradona must have been a shitter too, played for crap like Napoli :lol::lol::lol:

In all seriousness his talent when he was at Spurs was levels and I mean levels above Rooney. The way he absolutely dominated Holland's incredibly talented midfield in '96 when he was past his best was ridiculous too

Putting laughing emojis on your own (burn)? makes you look a bit thick but then with Maradona lifting Napoli to two league titles and them being relegated when he wasn't with them whereas Gazza lifted his teams to nothing ?


Well that just makes you look even more than a bit thick
 

welshwingwizard

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Maradona must have been a shitter too, played for crap like Napoli :lol::lol::lol:

In all seriousness his talent when he was at Spurs was levels and I mean levels above Rooney. The way he absolutely dominated Holland's incredibly talented midfield in '96 when he was past his best was ridiculous too
I'll be the first to admit that I didn't see the period many are talking about here (the first game I remember being taken to was in 94) but I find the idea that Gazza was so far above Rooney a bit laughable, as is the way Rooney has become so underrated.

Gazza may have dominated in Italia 90 and against Holland in 96 but Owen tore teams apart in 02 and was brilliant until injuries ravished him (much like the argument as to why we should ignore most of Gazzas career) yet we don't discuss Owen as being miles ahead of Rooney.

This is because potential and realising it are two differently things. Whilst we talk about Rooney not fulfilling his potential, this was in comparison to the way we were expecting him to develop when he tore up Euro 2004 (similarly to Gazza).

But after that he won everything he could and between 2006-2010 there was no attacking player I would have swapped him for (with the exception of messi and ronaldo).

I'm sure most united fans would say the same even if they feel he deteriorated quickly after 2011. He had everything and not even the GOATs of Ronaldo or Messi would have claimed to be levels ahead of him at that time.
 
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ThierryFabregas

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Putting laughing emojis on your own (burn)? makes you look a bit thick but then with Maradona lifting Napoli to two league titles and them being relegated when he wasn't with them whereas Gazza lifted his teams to nothing ?


Well that just makes you look even more than a bit thick
You seem to have no understanding of the era. In the 90s Serie A was the number 1 league in the world and they finished 5th when he was coming back from a leg break. When Gullit came here in the 90s he reckoned only 5 PL players would cut it in Serie A. If SAF could of bought Gascoigne when he left Spurs he probably would of done but Italian clubs had more money at this time. Gascoigne was mainly injured at Lazio having suffered a leg break before signing and a leg break after that but was still considered a club legend.. Rangers were doing very well in the CL in the 90s and winning all the Scottish championships and cups. This was a time when Liverpool-Celtic was decided by away goals and Rangers got as far as the semis in the CL

As for levels of intelligence, SAF considered Gascoigne perhaps the best talent he'd seen. Was he right or yourself
 

lsd

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You seem to have no understanding of the era. In the 90s Serie A was the number 1 league in the world and they finished 5th when he was coming back from a leg break. When Gullit came here in the 90s he reckoned only 5 PL players would cut it in Serie A. If SAF could of bought Gascoigne when he left Spurs he probably would of done but Italian clubs had more money at this time. Gascoigne was mainly injured at Lazio having suffered a leg break before signing and a leg break after that but was still considered a club legend.. Rangers were doing very well in the CL in the 90s and winning all the Scottish championships and cups. This was a time when Liverpool-Celtic was decided by away goals and Rangers got as far as the semis in the CL

As for levels of intelligence, SAF considered Gascoigne perhaps the best talent he'd seen. Was he right or yourself

Because Sir Alex has never been wrong about anything ?

There's such a thing as judging a player on what you watched yourself throughout his career and not through what the media and other people say about him when prompted
 

Pretzels81

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Probably nearly as good as Maradona, but had a shorter peak and even worse off-pitch attitude.
 

MassVolto

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The thing with Gazza that people who haven't seen him play for his country doesn't seem to understand when we put him above the likes of Rooney, Shearer, Gerrard, Becks etc. Is that he is the only player who really carried the team in one/two major tournaments. Forget about his club football(which don't get me wrong was also very good albeit a bit inconsistent) but when your life is on the line and you need one man to step it up and bring some magic on the international stage..... Gazza won't disappoint you.