How long until Ole's signings also join the deadwood list?

[Skills]

We see this with all our managers post Ferguson. The 'manager shits gold' lot overpower all the dissent at the start of this cycle, as the new set of signings become our saviours from the old useless squad members.

Then eventually you start seeing increasing dissenting voices highlighting the players weaknesses. They start to overpower the 'manager shits gold' lot. We're already seeing signs of this now with AWB and Maguire threads. Eventually most get fully engrained into the deadwood listing by the time the next manager is in place. In between all this, some of the remaining 'manager shits gold' lot will transfer the blame onto Woodward for signing the players.

I reckon by the end of the season, all 3 of Oles signings will be on course to make it.

 

[redIndianDevil]

We see this with all our managers post Ferguson. The 'manager shits gold' lot overpower all the dissent at the start of this cycle, as the new set of signings become our saviours from the old useless squad members.

Then eventually you start seeing increasing dissenting voices highlighting the players weaknesses. They start to overpower the 'manager shits gold' lot. We're already seeing signs of this now with AWB and Maguire threads. Eventually most get fully engrained into the deadwood listing by the time the next manager is in place. In between all this, some of the remaining 'manager shits gold' lot will transfer the blame onto Woodward for signing the players.

I reckon by the end of the season, all 3 of Oles signings will be on course to make it.

Apt term this "manager shits gold lot". And you are bang on about them shifting blame on Woodward.

But I think AWB will be a relative success as he is quite good and under proper manager he may improve. Same for James and besides his signing was a cheap punt. But I'm concerned about Maguire, he looks nothing special.

 

[Class of 63]

How long is a piece of string?

Weird thread.

 

[Tarrou]

usually it happens after we sack the manager, and bring in a new one with different ideas

so probably wont be too long now

 

[Needham]

They were terrific signings, though Maguire cost too much. You can isolate in each one proper individual abilities which trump any general weaknesses they might have eg James foraging pace, AWB's out and out full back defensive play, Maguire's cool head, all substantially more long term useful than Fellaini's chesting ability, for example

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

As much as i want to see Ole go, he showed one thing. How our previous 'world class' managers got the signings wrong. I mean even for a supposed 'rookie', he got them all mostly right. WTH was mou and lvg was thinking, with all the trophies and experience at so many levels. Its mind boggling really. Anyways, if he get few more such signings in by january and finish top half of the table, i think he will only become a deadwood next summer. IF

 

[thepolice123]

With the way the current team is playing, a lot of our players are being set up to fail. This United team by far the most poorly coached.

No passing patterns and players have no chemistry. You can tell that even simple things like corner and throw-in drills are not worked on the training ground. Our throw-ins are basically just throwing it at someone. Corners - hit it at the tallest player.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Magure is far ahead of the other two in the race towards "deadwood" label by the caf. Then AWB for being "only good at defending". James have the advantage of cheap price and age, and made a lot of attacking contributions so it'll take a while.

Estimates
1. Maguire - by the end of next season, assuming he maintain his current form so far... or somehow gets worse.


*if these two showed zero perceived improvements*
2. AWB - after 4 to 5 seasons.
3. James - after 5 to 6 seasons.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Don’t think AWB and James will become deadwood anytime soon, they both look very promising and young.

Although Maguire performance doesn’t justify his huge transfer fee, he isn’t anywhere near to Jones/Rojo/Bailly level of deadwood yet. We will see again in 2-3 years time.

 

[Needham]

Magure is far ahead of the other two in the race towards "deadwood" label by the caf. Then AWB for being "only good at defending". James have the advantage of cheap price and age, and made a lot of attacking contributions so it'll take a while.

Estimates
1. Maguire - by the end of next season, assuming he maintain his current form so far... or somehow gets worse.


*if these two showed zero perceived improvements*
2. AWB - after 4 to 5 seasons.
3. James - after 5 to 6 seasons.

Maquire's been alright. I want to see him step up the pitch with the ball more but he's either been explicitly told not to do it or he lacks faith in those around him to step up with him or provide sufficient cover. The guy's an able intelligent footballer. Nowhere near to putting him in the category of bad buy/deadwood.

 

[tenpoless]

They still have age on their side. Maybe 5 years if They keep playing worse than currently.

 

[Florida Man]

How long is a piece of string?

Weird thread.

6

 

[Sky1981]

I really don't see AWB, Maguire as anything special. They're EPL proven and bought for a combined prices of 100M+

At that price for a defender you better bet your career they should be doing the job. But because it's United Legend Ole his purchases has been made as if it's some kind of brilliant coup. They're just solid defenders, for 80M for a Center back you want more than solid and does the job.

James is still young, and at 15M who cares, he can only go up from here. But then again I don't see anything special in him, he's special because he's 15M good looking and British. Ability wise it's interesting to see how he fares now that defenders starts taking him seriously and knows more about his game.

 

[Greck]

Predict AWB will be deemed 'not good enough to start for a club of our ambitions' on the Cafe by 2022 latest because of his attacking

Think James could be serviceable even as a squad player and still be worth it because of the fee

 

[Mcking]

When we finish sixth in their second season.

 

[Skills]

Magure is far ahead of the other two in the race towards "deadwood" label by the caf. Then AWB for being "only good at defending". James have the advantage of cheap price and age, and made a lot of attacking contributions so it'll take a while.

Estimates
1. Maguire - by the end of next season, assuming he maintain his current form so far... or somehow gets worse.


*if these two showed zero perceived improvements*
2. AWB - after 4 to 5 seasons.
3. James - after 5 to 6 seasons.

That will also become a stick to beat Woodward with. Will be used as an example of Woodward and Glazers being cheap in the transfermarket. James himself will get the 'Championship level player' abuse.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The so-called deadwood of previous regimes were typically talked up, initially, as parts of a team many fans were quite bullish about. Very different scenario this season. Even Ole’s staunchest supporters can’t, and don’t, claim that we’re close to being a top team: the consensus is that we need to strengthen the team significantly in numerous positions over the next few windows. In my opinion all three of those mentioned in the OP have done well so far, and they have done so in the above context: they’ve been among the best performers, regularly, in a struggling (as acknowledged by almost everyone) team.

Maguire isn’t Rio and was overpriced - but that’s not relevant if we’re considering him as potential deadwood down the road.

AWB lacks something offensively (he’s young, though, and can develop that side of his game) but genuinely looks rock solid defensively.

James looks - genuinely - like he has something in his locker beyond being a speed merchant from the Championship. He hasn’t been “found out”, to use the standard Caf phrase. He’s also young, with plenty of time to add strings to his bow, and came at a price which makes him a punt rather than a potentially disastrous waste of money.

In short, I’d be surprised if any manager came in and decided that those three, out of our current crop, were useless players either short-term (if so, the whole squad is pretty much useless based on performances this season) or long-term (the term deadwood implies that they’d be deemed useless even as squad players).

 

[Crashoutcassius]

We see this with all our managers post Ferguson. The 'manager shits gold' lot overpower all the dissent at the start of this cycle, as the new set of signings become our saviours from the old useless squad members.

Then eventually you start seeing increasing dissenting voices highlighting the players weaknesses. They start to overpower the 'manager shits gold' lot. We're already seeing signs of this now with AWB and Maguire threads. Eventually most get fully engrained into the deadwood listing by the time the next manager is in place. In between all this, some of the remaining 'manager shits gold' lot will transfer the blame onto Woodward for signing the players.

I reckon by the end of the season, all 3 of Oles signings will be on course to make it.

People should blame Woodward that the football side of the club cannot find continuity when a manager leaves... very straight forward

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Apt term this "manager shits gold lot". And you are bang on about them shifting blame on Woodward.

But I think AWB will be a relative success as he is quite good and under proper manager he may improve. Same for James and besides his signing was a cheap punt. But I'm concerned about Maguire, he looks nothing special.

Who do you think should take the blame for decline in last 7 years if not Woodward

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

As much as i want to see Ole go, he showed one thing. How our previous 'world class' managers got the signings wrong. I mean even for a supposed 'rookie', he got them all mostly right. WTH was mou and lvg was thinking, with all the trophies and experience at so many levels. Its mind boggling really. Anyways, if he get few more such signings in by january and finish top half of the table, i think he will only become a deadwood next summer. IF

If we're to believe the club, there is a transfer committee that decided these signings, not Ole, Ole was simply a part of the process.

So hopefully, they at least got it right. As for the OP, I think AWB is too good defensively to get that label, and Maguire is a class act whether you think he was overpriced or not.
There's a chance that James being a forward could end up with that label despite how good he's looked so far, because if his numbers aren't good enough, fans will start turning on him.

 

[TheReligion]

17 months, 12 weeks, 6 hours and 55 minutes.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Who do you think should take the blame for decline in last 7 years if not Woodward

I'd say everyone running the club. Our advisory board that includes SAF must also take a massive chunk of the blame and who appoints and listens to them? Woodward? the Glazers?
Moyes and Ole/Phelan are 100% SAF decisions, quite why the club decided to give SAF another crack at it after the Moyes debacle I have no idea.

So yeah, Woodward, the advisory board and ultimately the owners for allowing these people to keep making the decisions despite failing at them for 7 years.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I'd say everyone running the club. Our advisory board that includes SAF must also take a massive chunk of the blame and who appoints and listens to them? Woodward? the Glazers?
Moyes and Ole/Phelan are 100% SAF decisions, quite why the club decided to give SAF another crack at it after the Moyes debacle I have no idea.

So yeah, Woodward, the advisory board and ultimately the owners for allowing these people to keep making the decisions despite failing at them for 7 years.

I haven't heard one hint of saf being involved personally. Sounds quite fanciful. Gary Neville said on live tv that Woodward has had 7 years trying to run the football side of the club. He 100% knows who runs it so he is either right or lying in live tv. In light of that you sound like a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

If we're to believe the club, there is a transfer committee that decided these signings, not Ole, Ole was simply a part of the process.

So hopefully, they at least got it right. As for the OP, I think AWB is too good defensively to get that label, and Maguire is a class act whether you think he was overpriced or not.
There's a chance that James being a forward could end up with that label despite how good he's looked so far, because if his numbers aren't good enough, fans will start turning on him.

Yes, but the same committee was there for moyes/lvg/jose and look at their success rate. 3/3 brilliant signings is phenomenal considering our general performance in the market past decade. Ole must be given full credit here imho.

 

[Judas]

Maguire suddenly for the shit heap after a dodgy game, Lindelof continues to fight another day after a typical performance. The Caf is a bizarre place.

 

[Sarni]

I really don't see AWB, Maguire as anything special. They're EPL proven and bought for a combined prices of 100M+

At that price for a defender you better bet your career they should be doing the job. But because it's United Legend Ole his purchases has been made as if it's some kind of brilliant coup. They're just solid defenders, for 80M for a Center back you want more than solid and does the job.

James is still young, and at 15M who cares, he can only go up from here. But then again I don't see anything special in him, he's special because he's 15M good looking and British. Ability wise it's interesting to see how he fares now that defenders starts taking him seriously and knows more about his game.

Wow, that’s very negative even if you absolutely despise Ole and assume these were just his signings. James has shown plenty of promise and AWB is one of the top defenders in the league in his position. Maguire is good as well even if overpaid.

 

[Ban]

I'd say everyone running the club. Our advisory board that includes SAF must also take a massive chunk of the blame and who appoints and listens to them? Woodward? the Glazers?
Moyes and Ole/Phelan are 100% SAF decisions, quite why the club decided to give SAF another crack at it after the Moyes debacle I have no idea.

So yeah, Woodward, the advisory board and ultimately the owners for allowing these people to keep making the decisions despite failing at them for 7 years.

Saying Ole and Phelan are SAF decisions and 100 percent at that is just an assumption. Also Saf just recommended Moyes, it was a mistake granted but blaming SAF for anything after that is just wrong.

 

[Lentwood]

Maguire is our best CB. AWB is a quality RB. James cost £15m and has arguably been our best player this year

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the players we’ve signed, it’s the players around them!

 

[The Boy]

I really don't see AWB, Maguire as anything special. They're EPL proven and bought for a combined prices of 100M+

At that price for a defender you better bet your career they should be doing the job. But because it's United Legend Ole his purchases has been made as if it's some kind of brilliant coup. They're just solid defenders, for 80M for a Center back you want more than solid and does the job.

James is still young, and at 15M who cares, he can only go up from here. But then again I don't see anything special in him, he's special because he's 15M good looking and British. Ability wise it's interesting to see how he fares now that defenders starts taking him seriously and knows more about his game.

Very harsh, I think you'd find almost any other prem team would be happy to have bought these players, they would probably not rely so heavily on James and be easing him in if he was elsewhere, but they certainly wouldn't be writing them off as deadwood.

Also I would suggest that quite a few of your post SAF signings shouldn't be classed as deadwood, Herrera, Martial, Blind, Pogba, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot are all decent players.

 

[Sky1981]

Wow, that’s very negative even if you absolutely despise Ole and assume these were just his signings. James has shown plenty of promise and AWB is one of the top defenders in the league in his position. Maguire is good as well even if overpaid.

Why do you assume everyone hates Ole?

I've been supporter since 1994, long before Jose even becomes a coach, long before Ole even retired. I have absolutely no reason to dislike ole let alone hate him. He's the epitome of muppet fantasy, an ex legend coming back to take the sleeping giant and all that. There's absolutely no fans that would want to hate Ole.

Doesn't mean he's the right man for the job. Check the history, I've been gunning for his long term appointment since last year. Stop thinking everyone that critizes the manager has a personal vendeta against him.

 

[Dave Smith]

I think it depends on what happens with the rest of the squad. James I think is ok and will prove at the least to be a good squad player, which, at £15m is a decent enough outcome. Further, he has a lot of potential to get better so I do not see that as too much of an issue, as at the moment decision making is a big issue with him and that is something that come with experience.

AWB will probably end up as a neutral signing as he has clear strengths and weaknesses. For me, he has the potential be a an excellent defensive RB but will always be lacking in his attacking output as he just does not seem to have the technique when in advanced positions. This is also why he got convert by Palace from a RWF to a RB.

Maguire is the biggest concern for me. He has never struck me as an amazing defender but rather a good defender in good teams. His passing is overrated as he does not have long range probing passes like Rio had, his turning speed is poor which is a problem as he can be dragged out of position and I do not see any amazing leadership qualities in him. His real strenghts are his aerial ability and his short range passing which whilst important are not traits that quanitify a £80m player in my book. For me, he is an all round good player that is being given a lot of credit around here for not being Jones, Rojo, Baily and Smalling. Lastly, another concerning fact is that Leicester have not missed him whatsoever and if anything look better this season at CB than they did last. A friend of mine calls him the walking forrhead and I kind of see where he is coming from.

 

[Sky1981]

Very harsh, I think you'd find almost any other prem team would be happy to have bought these players, they would probably not rely so heavily on James and be easing him in if he was elsewhere, but they certainly wouldn't be writing them off as deadwood.

Also I would suggest that quite a few of your post SAF signings shouldn't be classed as deadwood, Herrera, Martial, Blind, Pogba, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot are all decent players.

Dont' look at me pal, I never say they're deadwood. I just think they're not the genius signing people made them to be.

Herrera, Martial, Blind, Pogba, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot aren't deadwood. They're just spoilt players (Martial/Pogba) who don't like to follow manager's instruction. Shaw isn't the same after his leg broke. Blind's a good player just wasn't for us. Dalot is still young.

I blame the manager, all of them. A realistic manager should be able to make them work without having to resort to a full clearout. United Job has become so toxic you'd assume every new manager first job is to clear the deadwood.

 

[The Boy]

Dont' look at me pal, I never say they're deadwood. I just think they're not the genius signing people made them to be.

Herrera, Martial, Blind, Pogba, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot aren't deadwood. They're just spoilt players (Martial/Pogba) who don't like to follow manager's instruction. Shaw isn't the same after his leg broke. Blind's a good player just wasn't for us. Dalot is still young.

I blame the manager, all of them. A realistic manager should be able to make them work without having to resort to a full clearout. United Job has become so toxic you'd assume every new manager first job is to clear the deadwood.

Sorry, was using your post as an example rather than direct response.

The OP suggests that all players are saviours for a while then quickly become deadwood, which from an outsiders point of view seems pretty harsh. Don't get me wrong, you've had some bad buys along the way Schneiderlin for example and been burnt Di Maria and Sanchez spring to mind, but it certainly hasn't all been shite.

I think your three signings this summer are probably some of your best in the post SAF period. Your defence was awful last season, it looks a lot better now and James has certainly added a new dimension to last season's quite predictable attack.

 

[ivaldo]

I can't wait until we sack Ole so the race to hate our next manager and signings begin again. It's that fresh hatred that really gets us going!

 

[Sky1981]

Sorry, was using your post as an example rather than direct response.

The OP suggests that all players are saviours for a while then quickly become deadwood, which from an outsiders point of view seems pretty harsh. Don't get me wrong, you've had some bad buys along the way Schneiderlin for example and been burnt Di Maria and Sanchez spring to mind, but it certainly hasn't all been shite.

I think your three signings this summer are probably some of your best in the post SAF period. Your defence was awful last season, it looks a lot better now and James has certainly added a new dimension to last season's quite predictable attack.

Is it?

The only way it looks good is if you built a narative that it is, facts on the paper is we're abysmal defensive wise.

I'm a very pragmatic person, if we're good it should translate to result. You honestly can't say we're good and have a bright future ahead of us when you're 12th. You really can't

 

[Champagne Football]

Ole's signings have been our only 3 solid signing after spending 1 billion in 6 years.

Martial has not been a success here so far. He's still hit and miss and injury prone.

 

[ijc]

This thread is depressing. So much negativity.

 

[Cina]

I think all 3 will ultimately end up being successful here. Maguire's a good CB, he'll never be a top class CB and he'll never be worth what we paid for him, but he is good, and probably the best CB we've bought in a very long time, but he will need better partner's than the likes of Lindelof and Jones. Personally I think we fecked up massively letting Smalling go as the two of them would've been our best partnership.

AWB is defensively brilliant and offensively poor but because of the former I think he'll definitely be a success if we get a manager who actually has a clue how to utilize players.

James is great, no doubt he'll suffer a big blip at some point but he will end up as a success.

Still, I do think the logic that Ole did amazing in the window is a very flawed one. He weakened our squad in order to sign two incredibly expensive defenders and ignored other problem areas as a result of doing so. And Maguire will never be worth the money.

 

[JB7]

Ridiculous thread. The amount of pleasure some of our "fans" are taking in slating everything Ole does is ridiculous.

And it doesn't alter the principle of this thread being total bollocks as the three signings are easily three of our better players. AWB and Maguire are at a level showing up Shaw and Lindelöf (our player of the year and my player of the year last season), James came in as a squad option and has become an integral part of the starting 11 within 3 months.

 

[Focusmate]

Most people still seem to think anything to do with the football side of the club is the managers responsibility, good or bad.
Tactics, team selection and in game management and motivation along with long term style are the managers remit and the results of this are what he should be judged on.
Contracts/negotiations and talent spotting etc have a whole range of people responsible and shouldnt all be lumped on the managers head. If Maguire is a success or not is only a small amount on the manager.