RooneyLegend
New Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2013
- Messages
- 12,963
Alot. Pep changed the game completely to a point where if you don't use some of his principles you'll become irrelevant.
The last 20 years.....So,it would belong to 2001-present
Athletics abilities
This part becomes so important in a modern football. Stamina, strengths and pace are very important in these days. A lot of players must be run for a team due to pressing tactics for track the ball back as fast as you can do. In this era, they have a lot of physical specimen like Haaland,Mbappe,Salah,Mane and a lot.
4-3-3/3-4-3
In the past during early 2000s you can see many teams usually played 4-4-2,4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1.Right now,It's different.Many teams usually play at 4-3-3 and then wing forward in front three can be viewed as many differentative figuers.Some can be viewed as half10/half playmaker like Neymar,Messi or Grealish in Everton or some can be viewed as inverted scoring wingers like Ronaldo,Son or Salah.The wide forwards have become the most important roles of attacking in this era.Pure number 10 must be adapt in this era for survival,so they change to hybrid 8/10 in 4-3-3 formations or number 10 with great workrates.
Social media
I would say,it's very important of changing this sport too.Players have more freedom to comments or complains about anything that they want in this platforms.Since the late 2010s,you can update the transfers deals second to second due to social medias like twitter or instagram not likein the 2001-2014.Players have become more egotistical due to the overhype fromthis platforms.In 2004 for example you can punch opposition players and then it would be a quiet story but in 2021 it's not everyone knows in 3 seconds what are you doing.
Transfers
World records in 2001:Zinedine Zidane 46millions euro
World records in 2021:Neymar Junior 222 millions euro
The transfers have became growth rapidly during over 20 years.20 most expensive football transfers have been in during 2001-present.Inflation has become a main factors of football career.I would say Neymar dealt in 2017 was a deal that would change football forever in term of transfers.
Some intersting information
Annual revenue per team
2010 2018 CHANGE England €134m €272m 103% Germany €91m €175m 92% Spain €82m €157m 91% Italy €79m €115m 46% France €54m €85m 57% Big 5 average €88m €161m 83% 6-10 average* €25m €32m 28% 11-15 average** €15m €17m 18%
Pressing in football
Pressing has become very important thing during the last 10 years.Many top teams have usually use this streategy for positive results and right now pressign have become a trending that have never been before in the history of football.
On average, more teams are keeping more players around the ball than they were a decade ago, with possessions won in the attacking third (per team, per match) up from 2.82 in 2010-11 to 4.05 in 2019-20: a 44% increase. Ball recoveries are also up 13%, from 46.9 in 2010-11 to 53.1 in 2019-20.
If we look solely at possessions won in the attacking third, teams in the Big Five leagues ranged from a minimum of 0.9 per match (Bari) to a maximum of 8.8 (Bremen) in 2010-11. In 2019-20, that range was smaller: from 2.5 (Rennes) to 7.3 (Bayern). Twelve teams averaged at least six such possessions won nine years ago, and only two did this past season.
Bundesliga has been known for this aggresive pressing for over the years,they have made a lot of famous coaches,who master at this art like Klopp,Tuchel,Rangnick and Flick.So don't be excited, if teams in the Bundesliga led the way in the aggressiveness department.
In 2010-11, six German clubs were among the Big Five's top 10 in ball recoveries, while the 18 Bundesliga teams ranked No. 1-18 in possessions won in the attacking third. Granted, this might be a reason to call early data collection techniques into question. Even so, it's safe to say that the Bundesliga was the most prolific league in this regard.
In 2019-20, the top five teams in terms of ball recoveries, and eight of the top 15, were Bundesliga teams. And while winning possessions in the attacking third has become more of a rich club's pastime -- the top five (Bayern, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Manchester City and PSG).
Statistics
Statistics have become one of the most important figures during the last 5years.Right now, we have all of informations about playing like passing percentages,shooting,dribbling,ball recoveries,heading.....etc. Statistics can't decide all of them about your level of playing but it can tells a lot of things about your playing,it can tell you that that departments you have to improve to be a better player.So,a lot of teams have used this for the development of their players.Statistics can be even impacted in term of salarires too,De Bryune have upgraded salaries during the few years because he showed his statistics/informations to the impact of his team.Ratings of players have become very important for decision in something too.
Example websites about statistis-opta
-whoscored
-sofascore
Players become less inviduals due to the complicated of tactics
-Fewer less long ranger shots, more good shots.
-less physical
-more tactical oriented
-more passing
-faster pace
-the death of pure number 10
-midfield possesions have become trends
Some informations
METRIC 2010-11 2019-20 Shots outside box 46.1% 38.4% Throughballs 3.4 1.1 Tackle attempts 20.7 16.3 Tackle success 56.4% 36.7% Fouls committed 14.9 12.7 Crosses blocked/caught 4.2 2.2
METRIC 2010-11 2019-20 Possessions 107.9 96.2 Pass attempts 410.4 444.5 Pass completion 76.5% 80.1% Forward passes 41.2% 35.2% Pass interceptions 18.6 10.6 Move of 0-5 passes 81.1 66.3 Move of 9+ passes 12.5 17.0
METRIC 2010-11 2019-20 Take-ons 17.5 18.8 Take-on success rate 42.4% 54.3% Aerials 23.2 35.7
Also Michael Reiziger at Ajax in the 90s. While it seems pretty slow compared to football now, Van Gaal's side of the time would very much fit in with current-day tactics. I think they were fairly unique in those specfic years though - not trendsetters or typical of European top football.There were always teams who did
that in the past, we did with Evra. Dani Alves was the best example at Sevilla. Difference is, now more teams do that
Not to say anything negative about Van Gaal's Ajax side, but later he was right there when Klopp had his big break through with Dortmund and didn't really seem like he was up to speed then.Also Michael Reiziger at Ajax in the 90s. While it seems pretty slow compared to football now, Van Gaal's side of the time would very much fit in with current-day tactics. I think they were fairly unique in those specfic years though - not trendsetters or typical of European top football.
Yeah, Van Gaal's thinking about football has changed quite a lot over the years. I don't really know what systems he played with Barcelona, Bayern, or AZ, or the first time he was Dutch national coach. But the way he had the Netherlands play in Brazil or United afterwards had absolutely nothing to do with how Ajax played in the 90s.Not to say anything negative about Van Gaal's Ajax side, but later he was right there when Klopp had his big break through with Dortmund and didn't really seem like he was up to speed then.
His positional play wasn't radical enough. Teams, even bad ones, doubled up on Ribery and Robben and that was already enough to neutralize a lot of Bayern's attacking threat. And two years later it became quite a big topic that Heynckes introduced the level of dominance we're now accustomed to, by considerably upping their pressing game, with Klopp, in one of his angry moments, accusing him of "Chinese style" corporate plagiarism.
It's not really fair to call Heynckes a dinosaur. Yes he was old, but he won titles through 4 decades and proved to be able to adapt to changes over time. Bit similar to SAF in that regard, and I don't think you considered SAF a dinosaur in the 2010s?A dinosaur like Heynckes being able to assimilate and outdo the new tactical sensation so quickly was highly amusing to me at the time.
Aye. They were unique then and would be unique now. Cruyff used a similar shape which Guardiola also tried later on, but they never got the defensive balance that Van Gaal achieved with Ajax in the 1990s. It was the perfect system to exploit the talents and synergies of a similarly minded group of players. Circumstances that are unlikely to be repeated as assembling such a squad will take hundreds of millions, but recruitment on that scale is likely to be more scattergun and without the cohesion that was developed by a group of kids in their early 20s playing together for a few years.Also Michael Reiziger at Ajax in the 90s. While it seems pretty slow compared to football now, Van Gaal's side of the time would very much fit in with current-day tactics. I think they were fairly unique in those specfic years though - not trendsetters or typical of European top football.
I wasn't intending to be derogatory to Heynckes. Just meaning it in terms of the old veteran at the end of his career being able to keep up tactically and beat the new big name.It's not really fair to call Heynckes a dinosaur. Yes he was old, but he won titles through 4 decades and proved to be able to adapt to changes over time. Bit similar to SAF in that regard, and I don't think you considered SAF a dinosaur in the 2010s?
Why wouldn't they fit?It's definitely not as much fun to watch. A version of football where Cantona and Bergkamp don't really fit is a poorer game.
Because nobody really uses a 10 anymore and they were the archetypal number 10's.Why wouldn't they fit?
Liverpool who have regularly started Firmino? City who currently like to play Gundogan-KDB-Foden-Bernardo-Mahrez?Because nobody really uses a 10 anymore and they were the archetypal number 10's.
Where would Bergkamp fit in Liverpool or City's team today?
Agree with the wider point, although Bergkamp often played in the middle of a front three for Ajax and Holland in the early-to-mid 90s, so would likely do the same in a 4-3-3 today.Where would Bergkamp fit in Liverpool or City's team today?
Yep, any world-class number 10 of yesteryear would fit in City’s team, they’re essentially playing 3-4 number 10s at times like Brazil 1970.Liverpool who have regularly started Firmino? City who currently like to play Gundogan-KDB-Foden-Bernardo-Mahrez?
Messi? Neymar? Thomas Muller? Dybala? Benzema?
I don't, it's a stupid and wrong point fueled entirely by nostalgia and with no actual basis in realityAgree with the wider point
To clarify I’d say that such players fit into the modern game but would need some accommodation into the prevailing in vogue tactical shapes. Most typical 10s have adapted into slightly different roles depending on where they are on the spectrum between an 8 and a 9.5. Most of the more attacking 9.5s are playing through the middle of a 433 or, if they have the dynamism, in a wide forward / inside-left/right role. Most of the more midfield type 10s are playing as the 8s in stacked 433 teams where they can get away with a less natural defensive game.I don't, it's a stupid and wrong point fueled entirely by nostalgia and with no actual basis in reality
Yeah I don't see in that City group you mentioned there where Cantona or Bergkamp narurally fit. There isn't a No.10 in those lineups. You wouldn't want either playing wide like Forden or Mahrez. I don't think you'd want either in a midfield slot either. Don't think they have the off the ball work rate for that today. So they'd have to change to fit in.Liverpool who have regularly started Firmino? City who currently like to play Gundogan-KDB-Foden-Bernardo-Mahrez?
Messi? Neymar? Thomas Muller? Dybala? Benzema?
Yeah I think that's where they would have to play today, which I don't think is ideal. You're losing a big part of their game if they play up top.Agree with the wider point, although Bergkamp often played in the middle of a front three for Ajax and Holland in the early-to-mid 90s, so would likely do the same in a 4-3-3 today.
It's just a chat about football, maybe relax a little?I don't, it's a stupid and wrong point fueled entirely by nostalgia and with no actual basis in reality
There isn't a single player from the 90s that could play today without significant adapation. Just like there are no players from the 50s that could have played in the 90s, etc.Yeah I don't see in that City group you mentioned there where Cantona or Bergkamp narurally fit. There isn't a No.10 in those lineups. You wouldn't want either playing wide like Forden or Mahrez. I don't think you'd want either in a midfield slot either. Don't think they have the off the ball work rate for that today. So they'd have to change to fit in.
Messi as he is today wluld be closest of all the names you've mentioned to how Bergkamp and Cantona played and look at the stick he's currently getting for workrate, making it hard for the manager etc
The hole in the 4-2-3-1 maybe? It seems the most used way to accommodate typical attacking 10s a la Roberto Baggio these days. The 80s gen typical 10s, say Platini or Matthaus, would need 4-3-1-2 or even a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond… much more difficult accommodation, today… Platini would only fit in a la Pirlo, possibly… Matthaus would operate as a mezzala a la Nedved, I reckon.To clarify I’d say that such players fit into the modern game but would need some accommodation into the prevailing in vogue tactical shapes. Most typical 10s have adapted into slightly different roles depending on where they are on the spectrum between an 8 and a 9.5. Most of the more attacking 9.5s are playing through the middle of a 433 or, if they have the dynamism, in a wide forward / inside-left/right role. Most of the more midfield type 10s are playing as the 8s in stacked 433 teams where they can get away with a less natural defensive game.
I don’t get this either, both would be perfect for Liverpool/City/Chelsea as the lone striker, all the managers of these teams prefer number 6 ft 10/9 hybrids who can drop deep link up play provide a final pass, be physical and also score the odd goal. Firmino and Havertz play this role for Chelsea and Liverpool and City are chasing Kane to do the same thing for them.Why wouldn't they fit?
Agreed.I don’t get this either, both would be perfect for Liverpool/City/Chelsea as the lone striker, all the managers of these teams prefer number 6 ft 10/9 hybrids who can drop deep link up play provide a final pass, be physical and also score the odd goal. Firmino and Havertz play this role for Chelsea and Liverpool and City are chasing Kane to do the same thing for them.
Bergkamp and Cantona would have had to up their work rate but they actually fit perfectly for a lot of modern day sides as the number 9 in the 4-3-3 or even 3-4-3 that Chelsea play.
Total football started in Holland It was in the early seventies.Agreed.
The only types imo would find it really hard in the current football are pure defender and pure poacher.
The total football is actually all about making the 11 players the most hybrid possible, all players can attack and can defend. #10 or attacking midfielders themselves are already a hybrid type by nature.
I wouldn't worry about their stamina or workrate either. If they play now they'll have the modern sportive science methods and diets applied to them too. It's not like us human suddenly become much fitter, stronger, faster in the last 20 years.
Pep played Aguero and wanted Kane or Ronaldo. Proper high scoring out and out strikers. He's making do(annoyingly well) without for now.I don’t get this either, both would be perfect for Liverpool/City/Chelsea as the lone striker, all the managers of these teams prefer number 6 ft 10/9 hybrids who can drop deep link up play provide a final pass, be physical and also score the odd goal. Firmino and Havertz play this role for Chelsea and Liverpool and City are chasing Kane to do the same thing for them.
Bergkamp and Cantona would have had to up their work rate but they actually fit perfectly for a lot of modern day sides as the number 9 in the 4-3-3 or even 3-4-3 that Chelsea play.
No Kane Aguero and Ronaldo aren’t similar players, Kane was the player with the most assists last season, he is far more than just out and out striker. Pep was actually benching Aguero till he bought into his ethos, Kane was the first target and not current day Ronaldo for him for that reason, Kane presses, score goals, drops deep into the number 10 position, while also being a physical presence.Pep played Aguero and wanted Kane or Ronaldo. Proper high scoring out and out strikers. He's making do(annoyingly well) without for now.
That's not what Bergkamp, Cantona or Zola were. They could have a go and they'd be more suited there than in a midfield three( there's no chance Cantona in particular could play in a midfield three) but really you're jamming them in. You wouldn't be getting the best of them. It's like us playing Bruno as the false 9 or highest attacker.
The role they played best has largely gone.
I mean there's not that much of a difference to the way Zola was asked to play for a big chunk of his career in Italy and someone like Hazard...Zola is different due to his lack of physicality and height he would probably be a wide forward/10 hybrid in modern day times.
I don’t think there’s a big difference between the old 9.5 or 10 in a two-man strike partnership and a modern false 9 in a front three. It’s basically the same gig but with two outlets bursting through instead of one. Bergkamp often played that role when he arguably hit his peak earlier in his career. Totti made the transition from 10 to false 9 during his own career and probably also hit his highest level in that role.Pep played Aguero and wanted Kane or Ronaldo. Proper high scoring out and out strikers. He's making do(annoyingly well) without for now.
That's not what Bergkamp, Cantona or Zola were. They could have a go and they'd be more suited there than in a midfield three( there's no chance Cantona in particular could play in a midfield three) but really you're jamming them in. You wouldn't be getting the best of them. It's like us playing Bruno as the false 9 or highest attacker.
The role they played best has largely gone.