How to get better at breaking down deep sides

Resch

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A team, who wants to break down deep sides, has to play fast to move the other team. Has to play them like a accordion! Force the players into a minimum of space and use the now wide open pitch. But you have to play fast passes with only one or two touches, controll the ball and move as a team.
Lets start with the movement. Our players run, they move, but not as a team. So our offensive is very static and slow most of the time. It is hard to find the next player, who is not already covererd, in front of you.
Not enough movement leads to too many touches and too many touches gives the opponent time to sort out his defence and press.

To play fast as a team you need intelligent players with enough talent and the right training. Watching a match shows us the problem but not the reason. Are our players not intelligent enough, not talented enough or is Oles training not good enough?
Or is it just a mixture of all, some stupid players, some untalented players and a coach just not good enough to teach the team enough movement?
 

Resch

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When you got the ability, the small and simple passes are easy. If our players attempted the same, the outcome would be completely different.
Our players do not have the chance to play simple passes, because our team does not move enough. Every players runs, but the movement of the team as a group is just not good and fast enough.
 

Nou_Camp99

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We need another creative midfielder in addition to Pogba. If Pogba goes we need two.

We also need to replace Luke Shaw for a top class fullback. We have two defensive minded fullbacks. It's not working. Need another attacking threat in the team. Somebody like Digne, Gaya or Grimaldo would be good.

Liverpool have two of the best attacking fullbacks in the world. It makes them very difficult to play against.
 

Dr Fink

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Easy to attempt this one. Have at least one creative midfielder playing - we didn’t yesterday. Plenty of movement off the ball and interchanging positions - again only partially done. The front three are a bit static and predictable. Finally, move the ball quicker, which we did in fits and starts yesterday. Do all three and we should be able to break these teams down.
 

Russky14

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Pass and move its simple - well in theory.

1) You need players who can control a ball & pass (1 or two touch). Well thats a no across the team.
2) Movement . with our main striker playing statues unless he is in full flow (Martial) then its a know.

We do not have the personnel simple. Look at the Scousers front 3, even though the natural set up is to counter their close control is excellent.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Our players do not have the chance to play simple passes, because our team does not move enough. Every players runs, but the movement of the team as a group is just not good and fast enough.
This becomes like "the chicken and the egg" dilemma on what is the most fundamental element for this to work.
I do not disagree with you that effective movement is vital to break down a compact defence regularly, but the basic need before all else is the ability to pass and receive the ball consistent and accurate.

Improving a teams ability to pass and receive the ball to the level needed takes a lot more time than drilling them into correct movement. A team without the ability to pass and receive the ball will even struggle to get into the final third and pushing the opposition deep enough to even talk about how to break down deep sides.
 

Rozay

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Very true, which is why I still have time for Mata. I've seen him do so much good stuff with regards to breaking buses this season which absolutely no one else in the midfield has done, not even Pogba (because he's not that type of player).

He may be slow and weak, but we can accommodate him especially if we have 2 other runners in midfield as well as primarily defensive fullbacks. having all that and a primarily defensive no. 10 is the definition of overkill.

When Pogba gets back, I hope he and Mata play as 8/10 hybrids alongside either Scott or Fred. In the tough games, we can have the primarily "running" midfield, but not these types. I get it that fans prefer the passionate physical runner types, but we need these technical types too to break down buses, and Mata is good at that.
Mata isn’t the answer for me. He couldn’t play for City either because he hasn’t got the work rate or off the ball ethos to go with his on the ball ability. He needs to go.

But all about symbiosis for me. If you replaced Wan Bissaka with Max Aarons or Trent, and McTominay with Saul, for example, the team would be able to move the ball around better at a faster pace. They will not be joining the team to be de facto ‘creative players’, but they can take the ball and move it at speed, which will lift the whole team.

Pogba is only the start. We can put him as a 10, but where is the Carrick picking it up from deeper and passing it? I think Ole moved Pogba deeper to do this, but it highlights other weaknesses in his game, and for me, limits other strengths. Long and short, we need more than him in the team who approach the game with the same priorities.

The way I see it, we have addressed some foundational issues in the team in terms of lifting the tempo. The attitude is better, although that is only phase one. Next is to improve the technical level throughout the side to allow us to be a better proactive team than a reactive one, which we currently specialise in. We have too many players currently that the opposition would be fairly comfortable with leaving to have the ball. They are better when they don’t have it.
 

Darlington Padgett

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We need a CM that can carry the ball and an AM. Fred a MCT are way too similar, they work a lot but with the ball they're not as creative as you need them to be. Martial is having the same problem Rooney had in his last years, he needs to drop back to get the ball and start our attacks.
 

RedIan

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Yep better players required. How we have gotten to a state where the team is littered with very average players I’m not sure.
People getting excited about McT and Fred in midfield? to me they are average standard premier league players, not bad players but not the quality Man United should have - they should be the back up players on the bench to players of scholes Carrick Keane Beckham standard.
 

He'sRaldo

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Mata isn’t the answer for me. He couldn’t play for City either because he hasn’t got the work rate or off the ball ethos to go with his on the ball ability. He needs to go.

But all about symbiosis for me. If you replaced Wan Bissaka with Max Aarons or Trent, and McTominay with Saul, for example, the team would be able to move the ball around better at a faster pace. They will not be joining the team to be de facto ‘creative players’, but they can take the ball and move it at speed, which will lift the whole team.

Pogba is only the start. We can put him as a 10, but where is the Carrick picking it up from deeper and passing it? I think Ole moved Pogba deeper to do this, but it highlights other weaknesses in his game, and for me, limits other strengths. Long and short, we need more than him in the team who approach the game with the same priorities.

The way I see it, we have addressed some foundational issues in the team in terms of lifting the tempo. The attitude is better, although that is only phase one. Next is to improve the technical level throughout the side to allow us to be a better proactive team than a reactive one, which we currently specialise in. We have too many players currently that the opposition would be fairly comfortable with leaving to have the ball. They are better when they don’t have it.
I agree which is why I advocate Mata, not as the answer, but as a temporary solution to bring the team closer to that style.

You've probably noticed, there are a few players that can play off each other fluidly and naturally break down deep defenses and they include Mata, Pogba, Martial, (sometimes) Shaw. If these players play the same match we usually play a bit more technical and "give and go". Nowadays Fred is getting better at that so I'll include him in there.

If we start playing these players together with a goal of slowly morphing our team to a possession-based one, we can gradually fill in the gaps where players like Mata aren't good enough, while still keeping that style.

As for the Mata issue, I agree he isn't good enough. The thing is we're already playing players who aren't good enough at no. 10, just they have different strengths than Mata. I'd rather we played him and slowly morphed into a more technical team with a view of replacing him soon, than continued playing the likes of Lingard or Pereira and go nowhere with our style of play.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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I think it would be more logical to have players that are actually able to pass and receive the ball. Even though this can to some extent be trained, it would be hoping for a Christmas miracle that the likes of Fred, McT, James, Shaw and AWB would ever reach the quality on the ball necessary to play the type of football needed to break down a compact defence.

While there are different variations on how to do this, it all relies on the ability and consistency in passing and receiving the ball. While City got a more systematic approach to this compared to Liverpool, they are both able to be successful because they know that their players seldom make simple mistakes with the ball and thus does not allow for counter-attacking opportunities against. If we tried to play this way, we would lose the ball a high number of times during a match.

To make this even more specific on what is most fundamental and important:
Can you coach/drill a player or a team into specific movement patterns or positioning over a relatively short amount of time? YES.
Can you drastically improve a players consistency, efficiency and ability when passing and receiving the ball over a short amount of time? No. Over a season? No. Over 3 seasons? Maybe.
Not true. They make lots of them but they are able to recuperate from that due to their excellent balance (just trying to add to your point, not dismiss it).

As far as PL stats are concerned (per game metrics), United's attacking force that consists of Rashford/Martial/James averages 4.1 losses of possession and 6.8 unsuccessful touches. Liverpool's trident gets dispossessed 4.7 times p/g and has 8.8 unsuccessful touches. As for City, Sterling and Aguero's stats are 3.6 times dispossessed and 3.3 unsuccessful touches p/g. Now, if you consider Bernando as the third player in their 433, their stats are slightly better than ours. If you put Mahrez or Jesus in his place, they are a bit closer to our averages per game. The paradox in all of this is that we're all waiting for a certain Frenchman to come back and add some creativity to our plays while there's absolutely no other creative/attacking player in the top-six rosters who gets dispossessed and has more unsuccessful touches p/g than him. And i don't think we're mad in doing so...

The big difference is that both Liverpool and City have attacking/creative players who can secure and regain possession in the attacking half of the pitch: Second balls, 50-50's, interceptions in the attacking half, all these little details than rarely get mentioned but they are essential for pinning down opponents, sustaining the high-tempo and maintaining players in the final third. Watch any City or Liverpool game, whenever defenders clear the ball there's always a Liverpool or a City player anticipating the second ball. They keep adding pressure not only by playing silky football but by always having bodies contesting every loose ball on the pitch.

This part of the game, the first seconds after an attempt/loss of possession, is something we're really bad at. We press alright, but our press seems to be more similar to Spurs' tactics which aimed to force the opposition to hoof the ball rather than to regain possession high up the pitch and hit the opponent between transitions. One thing i'll agree with you is that you can't teach that to a footballer as it's a natural instinct more than anything else. Herrera had it and that's why we looked more promising when he was in good form. McT has it but his overall game is still very raw. Fred doesn't have it and you can see that he gets bypassed 8/10 times he tries to challenge for the ball. Cutting to the chase, expecting Rashford, Martial and James, Lingard, Pogba, Mata to do it looks like an exercise in futility. And that's one of the reasons i shake my head in disbelief when people vehemently advocate for Mata starting right behind Rashford and Martial.

On the other hand, both Klopp and Guardiola recruit attacking/creative players by looking into this "regaining the ball" category. It's what Wenger neglected with a "true passion" in his latter years and his Arsenal side became the laughing stock of English football. It is also a recurring theme with us. We reach the final third, someone tries to do something, the ball is cleared and we close down the first attacker. Most times we regain possession back in our own half. Rinse and repeat. It makes it very difficult for us to stretch the field vertically. It's not because Martial and Rashford don't look for early runs in behind. We create the spaces, early in transition, but we fail to capitalise on it. And yes, Pogba's passing skills are sorely missed but you can't expect exquisite passes through the lines all the time. KdB is technically as good as it gets, yet half of the chances he creates are the product of him chasing loose balls like a bull in a china shop. Poch based his success not on his players' passing abilities but on the fact that he coached his team to become very "territorial". As for Klopp, there's not a single time when you don't see a scouser being closer to a second ball than his opponent.

It comes as no surprise that whenever the plan is to sit very deep and soak up the pressure to then hit the opposition defenders with pace, we look quite competent. The transitions are lightning quick, passing through the lines comes easier and we can exploit the spaces in behind defences. We don't look like a team that is incapable of playing one-touch football. At all. But when these spaces and the ball are contested, we struggle. And it's easy to say that we need better quality all around the pitch. The truth of the matter is that most successful sides that utilize pressing tactics and want to push their lines higher up the pitch put a lot of emphasis on what happens immediately after the ball is lost and they recruit accordingly.
 

Stookie

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It’s a dodgy tactic but you need to let a team like that have a go at you then hit them on the break and attack the space. To do this requires a great defence though.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Not true. They make lots of them but they are able to recuperate from that due to their excellent balance (just trying to add to your point, not dismiss it).

As far as PL stats are concerned (per game metrics), United's attacking force that consists of Rashford/Martial/James averages 4.1 losses of possession and 6.8 unsuccessful touches. Liverpool's trident gets dispossessed 4.7 times p/g and has 8.8 unsuccessful touches. As for City, Sterling and Aguero's stats are 3.6 times dispossessed and 3.3 unsuccessful touches p/g. Now, if you consider Bernando as the third player in their 433, their stats are slightly better than ours. If you put Mahrez or Jesus in his place, they are a bit closer to our averages per game. The paradox in all of this is that we're all waiting for a certain Frenchman to come back and add some creativity to our plays while there's absolutely no other creative/attacking player in the top-six rosters who gets dispossessed and has more unsuccessful touches p/g than him. And i don't think we're mad in doing so...

The big difference is that both Liverpool and City have attacking/creative players who can secure and regain possession in the attacking half of the pitch: Second balls, 50-50's, interceptions in the attacking half, all these little details than rarely get mentioned but they are essential for pinning down opponents, sustaining the high-tempo and maintaining players in the final third. Watch any City or Liverpool game, whenever defenders clear the ball there's always a Liverpool or a City player anticipating the second ball. They keep adding pressure not only by playing silky football but by always having bodies contesting every loose ball on the pitch.

This part of the game, the first seconds after an attempt/loss of possession, is something we're really bad at. We press alright, but our press seems to be more similar to Spurs' tactics which aimed to force the opposition to hoof the ball rather than to regain possession high up the pitch and hit the opponent between transitions. One thing i'll agree with you is that you can't teach that to a footballer as it's a natural instinct more than anything else. Herrera had it and that's why we looked more promising when he was in good form. McT has it but his overall game is still very raw. Fred doesn't have it and you can see that he gets bypassed 8/10 times he tries to challenge for the ball. Cutting to the chase, expecting Rashford, Martial and James, Lingard, Pogba, Mata to do it looks like an exercise in futility. And that's one of the reasons i shake my head in disbelief when people vehemently advocate for Mata starting right behind Rashford and Martial.

On the other hand, both Klopp and Guardiola recruit attacking/creative players by looking into this "regaining the ball" category. It's what Wenger neglected with a "true passion" in his latter years and his Arsenal side became the laughing stock of English football. It is also a recurring theme with us. We reach the final third, someone tries to do something, the ball is cleared and we close down the first attacker. Most times we regain possession back in our own half. Rinse and repeat. It makes it very difficult for us to stretch the field vertically. It's not because Martial and Rashford don't look for early runs in behind. We create the spaces, early in transition, but we fail to capitalise on it. And yes, Pogba's passing skills are sorely missed but you can't expect exquisite passes through the lines all the time. KdB is technically as good as it gets, yet half of the chances he creates are the product of him chasing loose balls like a bull in a china shop. Poch based his success not on his players' passing abilities but on the fact that he coached his team to become very "territorial". As for Klopp, there's not a single time when you don't see a scouser being closer to a second ball than his opponent.

It comes as no surprise that whenever the plan is to sit very deep and soak up the pressure to then hit the opposition defenders with pace, we look quite competent. The transitions are lightning quick, passing through the lines comes easier and we can exploit the spaces in behind defences. We don't look like a team that is incapable of playing one-touch football. At all. But when these spaces and the ball are contested, we struggle. And it's easy to say that we need better quality all around the pitch. The truth of the matter is that most successful sides that utilize pressing tactics and want to push their lines higher up the pitch put a lot of emphasis on what happens immediately after the ball is lost and they recruit accordingly.
If you adjust the metrics you use for the number of touches they have --> (your metrics/touches per minute played) and if one could additionally add in the positions on the pitch these touches were taken in, pressed or not pressed, running, standing still, congested space +++ then I think the picture changes.

Adjusted for total touches(Only stat that was available):
  • Unsuccesful touches adjusted: (Unsuccessful touches in total/(total touches/number of games) --> UnsTouches*nrGames/total touches: City 207*17/14332 = 0.25, Liverpool 273*17/13215 = 0.35, MUFC 268*17/11478 = 0.40.
    • The lower the number, the better. The following point about action zones would skew this even more if factored in.
  • For dispossessions the number gets even worse: (dispossessions in total/(total touches/number of games) --> Dispossessed*nrGames/total touches: City 158*17/14332 = 0.19, Liverpool 128*17/13215 = 0.16, MUFC 186*17/11478 = 0.28.
    • The lower the number, the better. The following point about action zones would skew this even more if factored in.
  • Action zones: Final third: City 39%, Liverpool 33%, MUFC 29%.
  • Sources:
  • The same differences would be the case for passing. More passes in the final third at a higher completion rate.
My point with this is that it is not only the attacking players that matter when evaluating this (even though it would be better to have an attacker being dispossessed in the final third than a defender in your own half) but your whole teams' ability to keep the ball in good/pressured/congested positions without losing it. The more all of your players are being dispossessed or loses the ball, the more likely you are to be counter-attacked against. And the riskier and more difficult it is to retain possession, especially if your players are not consistent or good on the ball. Hence my original point about being consistent and efficient on the ball is fundamental for a team being able to break down a balanced and deep sitting team without taking unnecessary risks.

Your point about being able to regain possession is something I agree with, but it is not the difference but an addition. Not only does Pool and City lose the ball less adjusted for time on the ball and in more congested areas, they are also better at regaining the ball(as your point is) and thus stopping counter-attacks against. Regaining the ball as a team is somewhat coachable, but having players that can read the game like Herrera makes it a lot easier.
 

Mainoldo

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New coach would help. But better players so we looking better with the same issues.
 

Borys

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I strongly disagree with the idea that we lack of creative number 10 (or attacking midfielder in general) is the main issue for us. Even if you could somehow pull a Kevin de Bruyne and put him in our midfield, he would've struggle in a team with such little movement. This needs a lot of coaching, and honestly we've never been good at playing in tight spaces.

Movement is key, take a close look at how City operate the ball, with players constantly moving, changing angles to provide a passing option.

Players are fine, I actually think we have really good first XI right now. Coaching players movement is the main issue.

Midfield and fullbacks role is to isolate defenders against attackers. Our attackers are always facing 3-4 opponents. Compare it to City or Liverpool who are really good at it.
 
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The_Order

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Risk taking: Throwing an extra man or two in the box will leave us susceptible to counters but it is something we should push towards. Especially when we're a goal up, the team sort of loses its will to grab another goal and has a tendency to sit back way too deep (Ole and Carrick desperately flailing their arms in the final few minutes against Spurs for the backline to push further forward )

Starting fast: Rashford's goal against Spurs was our first goal in the first 15 mins of a match this season. Not good enough I would say.

Being Clinical: Need to improve our chance conversion rate and even half chances need to be taken

Options from the Bench: I was a big fan of the Lukaku and Sanchez coming off the bench arrangement during Ole's initial games. 20 mins from a fresh, fast attacker can give a lot of impetus especially against a team which has been defending in a low block.

Creative Midfielders: Clearly need at least a couple more. Matic can also no longer be counted as a squad player for us leaving us desperately short in numbers.
This,

All of it.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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We had 24 shots & 8 on target against Everton. Is that really the coaching fault or we just lack of quality to execute them in the final third? Even the city game we had wasted few chances before we finally scored. Can we improve the quality through practice? I believe so but not going to be instant.
 

Nikelesh Reddy

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3 ways of doing it-1)Play a high pressing game by telling our attackers to play high up the pitch.If the attackers play high up the pitch then obviously our centre backs are going to play a high defensive line.We can relentlessly put pressure on the opposition if we do this...Problem-Maguire can’t play in a high defensive line.Hes not comfortable running back towards his goal,so since our “main” central defenders not comfortable playing in a high defensive line,we can’t employ this tactic.

2)Urge the central defenders to play a greater control in building attacks from the back.Encourage them to make the transition from defence to attack at a more rapid pace...Problem-Our centre backs aren’t so confident at bringing the ball out from the back.

3)Just sign 2 new central midfielders,a defensive playmaker and a box to box number 8....

So basically until we sort out our midfield,our problems will continue to persist.Pogba will help us in breaking teams down IF he gets back to his best,but it will still be a struggle against the lesser teams until the end of the season...
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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We had 24 shots & 8 on target against Everton. Is that really the coaching fault or we just lack of quality to execute them in the final third? Even the city game we had wasted few chances before we finally scored. Can we improve the quality through practice? I believe so but not going to be instant.
A bit of both. We rely heavily on young (or youngish) players to provide us with solutions to our systematic problems. Young players tend to be inconsistent and throughout a season they usually go through purple patches which are then followed by dips in form. So, there's that. But i'd say that after a year of Solskjaer at the helm, i believe it's pretty fair to argue that there are types of games in which we look really competent on the ball and other types of games in which we seem to struggle to come up with the right answers.

In particular, the Everton game you mentioned. According to Understat, we had an xG of 1.48. A third of which was Lingard's early missed chance (which i think would have been ruled out as offside but nevermind). After Lingard's miss, we registered only two shots with an xG of 0.10 & 0.11. Even Greenwood's goal (xG 0.07) was a moment of individual brilliance more than a well structured attacking play that put the youngster through in front of the keeper. That's simply not good enough. It doesn't mean that it won't or can't get better but it's not good enough. In cases like these, the greatest example of how the stats can be misleading is the famous WC semi-final between Germany and Brazil where the Latins were better in almost every (simple) statistical category except the one that matters the most. Back to our game, Everton did not deserve a goal but we didn't create good enough chances to win it either. We should have won but because we nullified them throughout the game and they didn't pose any serious threat to us.

So, yeah, you can argue that a quality #10 will put Lingard's chance away more often than not and, once we finally get one, things will eventually start to improve. Or that with time Rashford and Martial will be more consistent with their chances. But someone else might also argue that, alongside all this, the tactics should be able to help us turn some of our xG 0.05-0.10 chances into better ones (with a 15-35% conversion rate) through good movement and positioning. Which is what the more successful sides are doing. If we do that and we still keep throwing away points, it will be easier to discuss the lack of quality upfront.
 

OleTheGreat

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Sometimes we forget that even Pogba was silent in a few games under Jose and it was so frustrating because he was not played in the right position also he's put under too much pressure to carry the whole team. Let me remind you guys that football is a team game and only when we sync as a team can we break down teams. Just Pogba will not do any good for us right now, we need a couple more players in attack and mid-field to set things right.

Right now, we can get this formation going

De Gea
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
McTominay
Fred Pogba
James Martial Rashford

4-3-3~~!

I think we can work well in this formation where Rashford, Pogba and Martial can link up every time we attack. While Fred and James can be fluid on the field until maybe we get Sancho, Maddison or Haaland.
 

cyril C

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A bit of both. We rely heavily on young (or youngish) players to provide us with solutions to our systematic problems. Young players tend to be inconsistent and throughout a season they usually go through purple patches which are then followed by dips in form. So, there's that. But i'd say that after a year of Solskjaer at the helm, i believe it's pretty fair to argue that there are types of games in which we look really competent on the ball and other types of games in which we seem to struggle to come up with the right answers.

In particular, the Everton game you mentioned. According to Understat, we had an xG of 1.48. A third of which was Lingard's early missed chance (which i think would have been ruled out as offside but nevermind). After Lingard's miss, we registered only two shots with an xG of 0.10 & 0.11. Even Greenwood's goal (xG 0.07) was a moment of individual brilliance more than a well structured attacking play that put the youngster through in front of the keeper. That's simply not good enough. It doesn't mean that it won't or can't get better but it's not good enough. In cases like these, the greatest example of how the stats can be misleading is the famous WC semi-final between Germany and Brazil where the Latins were better in almost every (simple) statistical category except the one that matters the most. Back to our game, Everton did not deserve a goal but we didn't create good enough chances to win it either. We should have won but because we nullified them throughout the game and they didn't pose any serious threat to us.

So, yeah, you can argue that a quality #10 will put Lingard's chance away more often than not and, once we finally get one, things will eventually start to improve. Or that with time Rashford and Martial will be more consistent with their chances. But someone else might also argue that, alongside all this, the tactics should be able to help us turn some of our xG 0.05-0.10 chances into better ones (with a 15-35% conversion rate) through good movement and positioning. Which is what the more successful sides are doing. If we do that and we still keep throwing away points, it will be easier to discuss the lack of quality upfront.
The best chances went to James, whose angle was not good enough. Our best finisher Martial did not show up, our hardest worker Rashford made all the wrong decision whole day. James had the most opportunities but lacking quality in final shot.
 

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We need a Mahrez. Someone that can beat defenders in small spaces and are good one on ones and can create that half a yard for a shot on goal.
 

Bastian

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Maguire was asked why we struggle against the lesser teams and he said "we can't quite put our finger on it". Every time Ole is asked he gives some sort of a vacuous answer. Quite concerning.
 

Castia

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Drop the player in the number 10 role and play a second striker.

We play a #10 in the big games and it works mainly down to the extra pressing and movement for the counter attack. Against the ‘smaller’ sides it’s a completely void position in Ole’s system, it offers absolutely nothing mainly due to poor options in Lingard, Mata and Pereira, the lot of them have about 3 goals and 4 assists between then in the past 12 months ffs.

He needs to ditch the formation against teams we should be beating and add either another striker (Greenwood) making it a traditional 442 or going with a flat 433 with 3 proper forwards.
 

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I'm out. Nigel Pearson is throwing shade at United.
 

RedDevil@84

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Without quality midfield, you are not going to breakdown anything. 2-3 strikers alone cant do much. It is a team effort.
 

Paxi

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Without quality midfield, you are not going to breakdown anything. 2-3 strikers alone cant do much. It is a team effort.
Please tell me you're taking the piss, otherwise----- what on earth are you talking about? You do realise we've just played a team at the bottom the table? Twentieth.
 

Classnordic

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Maguire was asked why we struggle against the lesser teams and he said "we can't quite put our finger on it". Every time Ole is asked he gives some sort of a vacuous answer. Quite concerning.
What do you want for an answer? Most of us know the answer to the issue/problem. Our players aren´t capable because they lack the quality.
If we get to play the game we want we can look decent, as seen against City for about 30 minutes and the first half vs. Liverpool
 

He'sRaldo

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Our players need a lot of space to operate which is why in tight games they always look apprehensive. Scared of losing the ball, scared of being countered, scared of messing up. The ones who do have that ability show it sporadically but are eventually dragged down to the level of everyone else.


I don't think the tactics have been all that, in fact, I think Ole's choices have been quite poor; problem is, it would be quite difficult to create chances against tight opposition without technical players regardless of the tactics.


Things like quick switches of play, first time touches and turns, close-quarter dribbles, inventive passes, etc. are all very useful things against parked buses, and most of the team lacks the ability to do these kinds of things.
 

(...)

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I don't see it addressed a lot but I think your right side is a huge issue. AWB and James are far too timid offensively, either by lack of confidence or by lack of technical ability.
But it makes it easy for opponent teams to man mark your AM, and double team on Rashford.
Just by switching Rashford and James, or by playing Greenwood instead of James, your attack would look a lot more balanced IMHO.
 

Judas

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The way we play football needs ripping up and throwing away, a total overhaul. It's dated, we've played the same shite football for years, and I go back to when Fergie was here with the slow passing and struggling to break teams down much like now. We've stagnated as an attacking force and I very much doubt Ole with his love for the past is going to change that.
 

Rozay

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An offensive threat from full backs and more quality on the ball in a he centrenof midfield.
 

CR1

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1. Pass and move a lot more
2. Start a CF that attacks crosses
3. Take more risks and show more urgency
4. Have the full-backs go forward and overlap a lot more
5. Williams should start at LB ahead of Shaw against those sides and maybe Dalot at RB ahead of AWB as well
 

OohAahMartial

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1. Pass and move a lot more
2. Start a CF that attacks crosses
3. Take more risks and show more urgency
4. Have the full-backs go forward and overlap a lot more
5. Williams should start at LB ahead of Shaw against those sides and maybe Dalot at RB ahead of AWB as well
I do think we need a different team, and maybe formation, against the low block teams. Certainly, I'd like to see Williams and I think Laird as our full backs, so we actually have some threat--both have the pace to deal with counters too. If Maguire is slowing us down, perhaps switch him for Tuanzebe. I'm not sure though of what the best formation for us would be, especially when it depends so much on who is fit, particularly Pogba. Maybe 4-3-3:
Romero
Laird Lindelof Tuanzebe Williams
McTominay or Fred (or new player)
Levitt or Garner (or new player) - Pogba or Fred
Greenwood Haaland or Martial Rashford

We lack guile and penetrative dribbling, which we need to break through, and that can only really be rectified in the transfer market, as Lingard, Mata and Pereira all need replacing. Maybe if we got the likes of Kulusevski, Olmo, Havertz, Bruno, we could find different ways through, and maybe make the 4-2-3-1 work.
 

Sylar

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1. Pass and move a lot more
2. Start a CF that attacks crosses
3. Take more risks and show more urgency
4. Have the full-backs go forward and overlap a lot more
5. Williams should start at LB ahead of Shaw against those sides and maybe Dalot at RB ahead of AWB as well
In agreement with most of this. One thing is we need more than just pogba to be creating chances from midfield in relation to point3 as we see with City (last season they had Silvas, KDB, Gundogan who could create chances). For us, we dont really have that. That could be negated by point 4 (like with Liverpool).

I think coaching goes with this too. So often we see the fundamentals of football not used. If we have a winger / fullback who can go to the byline and pull it back, then we need one player going front post and one going back post (and you would hope a midfielder going into the centre). If we have less than 3 players in the box, we need our crosses to be accurate almost all the time instead of putting it into dangerous areas and having attackers movement to attack it.

One thing we also need is options. We are relying so heavily on Martial and Rashford (And even James and Mason) Martial is the oldest and hes just turned 24.

I also think we need to stick to one main style. Going from 4231 to 433 to 352 game to game doesnt help. Its almost like were trying to throw lots of shit at the wall hoping something will stick.