I was hoping we might add a creative player in the January window even if it was a loan deal,feel it would give us a spark in games where teams don't come out and give us space.Recruitment.
We need more players.
This season is just about getting through it and hopefully developing a team spirit and work ethic.
Then we add players that can unpick teams and we boost our lethal counter attack too.
Corners are very inefficient in general. Defenses are really good at setting up for such plays nowadays, and it's not like we have players that are great at putting away set piece chances.- Try actually practicing corners so we maybe have a hope in hell of scoring from one. This is particularly helpful in these games where we seme to get about 20 of them a half but it amounts to little more than a form of timewasting.
Actually having any clue what to do with them at all would be a start. It's a double edged problem. We can't attack from them but we're very good at making games like this more difficult by not being able to defend them either. Even if you take out the Everton goal today, we spent periods of the game under needless pressure because we can't figure out how to defend a corner properly.Corners are very inefficient in general. Defenses are really good at setting up for such plays nowadays, and it's not like we have players that are great at putting away set piece chances.
We'd be better off playing most corners short.
I’m afraid that doesn’t even begin to end the thread.A new number 10 that can break down defences.
/thread
Very true, which is why I still have time for Mata. I've seen him do so much good stuff with regards to breaking buses this season which absolutely no one else in the midfield has done, not even Pogba (because he's not that type of player).Will cost a bit. Need a new midfield and full backs.
Pogba will help when coming back, but creativity is a team thing, a team attitude. You can’t put Zidane in a Stoke team and just say ‘create’. I think the most creative sides are constructed with creativity piece by piece. All players have their roles, like defenders must defend etc, but they are chosen based on how they fit a collective ethos. You look at Pep. The goalkeeper is good at stopping goals, but even he has been selected on this basis. The full-backs must be comfortable on the ball, the defensive midfielder must be comfortable on he ball, CMs etc. Same with Barcelona. Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta. Pique behind. Alba coming from one side, Alves from the other. You can’t just say ‘buy Essien and Scott Parker then put Iniesta in front of them and then you have a midfield that can create and defend’. Doesn’t work like that.
I’m not saying Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets is the only midfield, but the point is, even players like Fernandinho, who could easily be a United type of player, can do the defensive bit and the workrate bit while still being able to move symbiotically with his teammates on and off the ball. Our structure is disjointed. McTominay, Fred, Wan-Bissaka, Pogba and Martial do not belong in the same football team. They are all good players, but I don’t think a top team with an identity could possibly have a first XI with the same contradiction of footballers. They don’t have the same operating system or identity. I agree that work rate is important in a team, and not suggesting a lazy team of technique, but the likes of City, Barca etc have always worked, and I think there have been other great teams not as extreme as them with a better balance too.
Said this in the AWB thread, but how hard is it for a fullback to make those runs? It's some of the most basic of football.With the squad we have, we could make top 4 but the fullbacks need to contribute alot more than what they've shown so far and it's one of the biggest reasons we struggle to open teams up who defend deep imo. The fullbacks need to be instructed to push forward and create overloads which in turn would open space for our attackers because it would force the opposition to lose their shape. The fullbacks don't need to assist or score goals either for them to be effective. Pogba returning will improve things but if the fullbacks are not providing the options in attack that I believe we're lacking then we will continue to struggle against teams who defend deep.
The role of the fullback is very important in attack and makes a huge difference against teams who concede possession. I personally wouldn't give up on Diogo Dalot just yet either and would hope to see Ethan Laird being introduced in the squad as a back up option. Both youngsters have more potential than either AWB and Shaw going forward and could be key components against the so called cannon fodder.
Wan Bissaka took positions up in midfield at times yesterday to receive the ball which I was perplexed by and couldn't believe what I was seeing. We have very poor attacking fullbacks from the evidence at hand and i'm not sure why it's difficult to not understand the concept of what a fullbacks requirement is when we have the ball.Said this in the AWB thread, but how hard is it for a fullback to make those runs? It's some of the most basic of football.
We saw Shaw do it now and then today and every time it created an opportunity whether he got the ball or just dragged a defender.
It's the coaching.
Wow all these points were exactly what I’m thinking. I feel we can get these corrected easier than arsenal can correct theirs.- Stop allowing our centrebacks to spend 5-10 seconds fecking about every time either of them gets the ball, while the opposition get back into shape and our forwards/midfield get bored of making runs knowing there's no chance of the pass coming.
- Play a striker who will actually stay somehwere vaguely near the goal? I don't know where Martial goes. He crops up on the left, then the right, then in midfield. Not once today for example was he in a position where he was any threat to Everton's goal. If he wants so badly to be a striker he should, you know, play like one.
- Try actually practicing corners so we maybe have a hope in hell of scoring from one. This is particularly helpful in these games where we seme to get about 20 of them a half but it amounts to little more than a form of timewasting.
- Don't wait until the 80th minute to start getting players in the box.
- Maybe learn how not to concede idiotic soft goals every single time so we actually have the whole game to break a team down, rather than it inevitably descending into desperate charging about after 30 minutes when the opposition score because one of our players falls over/daydreams/kicks the ball into their own goal/tackles themselves on the edge of our box.
Indeed, very perplexing.Wan Bissaka took positions up in midfield at times yesterday to receive the ball which I was perplexed by and couldn't believe what I was seeing. We have very poor attacking fullbacks from the evidence at hand and i'm not sure why it's difficult to not understand the concept of what a fullbacks requirement is when we have the ball.
Shaw was slightly better in that regard but i've said it for a long time now, our fullbacks need to give much more in attack and i'm not sure if it's the coaching or the players.
And unless the situation improves regarding the fullback roles then improving anything else in the the squad would still see us struggle against teams who sit back.
Without upsetting anyone your point about the coaching is very valid from what we've seen thus far imo. I can't for the life of me believe AWB would take positions up in midfield when receiving the ball unless intructed to do so.Indeed, very perplexing.
As for the coaching versus the players, let me clarify: i don't mean that this quad of professional players turned manager-coaches doesn't know how to do this. It's more about their ability to effectively get their players to do it. That's the difference between a manager that read Guardiolas books, watches loads of tapes and has this phenomenal vision for how to make it happen versus one that just gets it done without all the hype talk.
So we take this example - player positioning and runs. Our fullbacks aren't doing it well enough or frequently enough in the attacking third. Our strikers too are not making their due diligence runs that should have brought us another four or five goals from Dan James alone.
I say with impunity that's fecking terrible coaching. Not because the staff don't know what to do. But because they can't get it to happen with consistency on the field. And it's basics. And it has been a full preseason and a year. Not asking for Guardiola level overdoing it. Just some bloody basics you see in every level of football.
And that's a huge worry.
- Stop allowing our centrebacks to spend 5-10 seconds fecking about every time either of them gets the ball, while the opposition get back into shape and our forwards/midfield get bored of making runs knowing there's no chance of the pass coming.
- Play a striker who will actually stay somehwere vaguely near the goal? I don't know where Martial goes. He crops up on the left, then the right, then in midfield. Not once today for example was he in a position where he was any threat to Everton's goal. If he wants so badly to be a striker he should, you know, play like one.
- Try actually practicing corners so we maybe have a hope in hell of scoring from one. This is particularly helpful in these games where we seme to get about 20 of them a half but it amounts to little more than a form of timewasting.
- Don't wait until the 80th minute to start getting players in the box.
- Maybe learn how not to concede idiotic soft goals every single time so we actually have the whole game to break a team down, rather than it inevitably descending into desperate charging about after 30 minutes when the opposition score because one of our players falls over/daydreams/kicks the ball into their own goal/tackles themselves on the edge of our box.
Actually having any clue what to do with them at all would be a start. It's a double edged problem. We can't attack from them but we're very good at making games like this more difficult by not being able to defend them either. Even if you take out the Everton goal today, we spent periods of the game under needless pressure because we can't figure out how to defend a corner properly.
It's really baffling how we don't appear to even try to sort this out. This was far from the first game that has been made much more difficult due to it.
With the squad we have, we could make top 4 but the fullbacks need to contribute alot more than what they've shown so far and it's one of the biggest reasons we struggle to open teams up who defend deep imo. The fullbacks need to be instructed to push forward and create overloads which in turn would open space for our attackers because it would force the opposition to lose their shape. The fullbacks don't need to assist or score goals either for them to be effective. Pogba returning will improve things but if the fullbacks are not providing the options in attack that I believe we're lacking then we will continue to struggle against teams who defend deep.
The role of the fullback is very important in attack and makes a huge difference against teams who concede possession. I personally wouldn't give up on Diogo Dalot just yet either and would hope to see Ethan Laird being introduced in the squad as a back up option. Both youngsters have more potential than either AWB and Shaw going forward and could be key components against the so called cannon fodder.
Said this in the AWB thread, but how hard is it for a fullback to make those runs? It's some of the most basic of football.
We saw Shaw do it now and then today and every time it created an opportunity whether he got the ball or just dragged a defender.
It's the coaching.
It's a coaching problem. Of course nobody can turn Lingard into Messi, however we clearly have systematic issued with:
But I'd say our biggest issue is number 2 and has been for years. Manchester United cannot deal with tight spaces. We always need space. We always rely on pace and individual brilliance. Until we modernise we will go nowhere. Sadly we don't have the manager to do it either.
- Our fullbacks to push forward when they should instead staying too deep
- "*Our players in general struggling to cope with congested spaces due to fear of being unable to find each other instantly, losing the ball due to a bad touch etc This results in us passing around teams rather than through them - our biggest tactical issue
- Our players not being where they should be. Top teams always have two good passing options at all times. We usually have only one which makes us predictable. For example I don't know why we never try shortening the spaces between our players. I know that's possession football but worth trying if we can't find our man. So many times I see us and the man on the ball has 4 attackers stuck inside a well of defenders for no apparent reason
- Player/team improvement - when your individuals don't improve as they should and the collective doesn't improve as it should it leads to an all round lack of threat
Very good observations!Indeed, very perplexing.
As for the coaching versus the players, let me clarify: i don't mean that this quad of professional players turned manager-coaches doesn't know how to do this. It's more about their ability to effectively get their players to do it. That's the difference between a manager that read Guardiolas books, watches loads of tapes and has this phenomenal vision for how to make it happen versus one that just gets it done without all the hype talk.
So we take this example - player positioning and runs. Our fullbacks aren't doing it well enough or frequently enough in the attacking third. Our strikers too are not making their due diligence runs that should have brought us another four or five goals from Dan James alone.
I say with impunity that's fecking terrible coaching. Not because the staff don't know what to do. But because they can't get it to happen with consistency on the field. And it's basics. And it has been a full preseason and a year. Not asking for Guardiola level overdoing it. Just some bloody basics you see in every level of football.
And that's a huge worry.
Didn't watch CP enough but was that a common place thing for AWB then? If not, you have to imagine he was instructed.Without upsetting anyone your point about the coaching is very valid from what we've seen thus far imo. I can't for the life of me believe AWB would take positions up in midfield when receiving the ball unless intructed to do so.
Palace fans did say he wasn't very good in a attacking sense, but I rarely watched him at Palace.Didn't watch CP enough but was that a common place thing for AWB then? If not, you have to imagine he was instructed.
This. One who scores goals and creates. Scoring goals being the key of course.A new number 10 that can break down defences.
/thread
Doesn't it start from deeper?We need better movement up front, that is where creativity starts.
Movement first.Doesn't it start from deeper?
Is our movement easily shackled upfront due to the over bearing opposition numbers and our fullbacks inability to provide width, overlaps, which would open space and pull opposing players out of position which would also give our forwards extra passing options?Movement first.
I think it would be more logical to have players that are actually able to pass and receive the ball. Even though this can to some extent be trained, it would be hoping for a Christmas miracle that the likes of Fred, McT, James, Shaw and AWB would ever reach the quality on the ball necessary to play the type of football needed to break down a compact defence.Movement first.
When Barcelona was dominating the majority of their goals came from short simple passing. You do not need to do difficult passes.I think it would be more logical to have players that are actually able to pass and receive the ball. Even though this can to some extent be trained, it would be hoping for a Christmas miracle that the likes of Fred, McT, James, Shaw and AWB would ever reach the quality on the ball necessary to play the type of football needed to break down a compact defence.
While there are different variations on how to do this, it all relies on the ability and consistency in passing and receiving the ball. While City got a more systematic approach to this compared to Liverpool, they are both able to be successful because they know that their players seldom make simple mistakes with the ball and thus does not allow for counter-attacking opportunities against. If we tried to play this way, we would lose the ball a high number of times during a match.
To make this even more specific on what is most fundamental and important:
Can you coach/drill a player or a team into specific movement patterns or positioning over a relatively short amount of time? YES.
Can you drastically improve a players consistency, efficiency and ability when passing and receiving the ball over a short amount of time? No. Over a season? No. Over 3 seasons? Maybe.
