Most important task this summer is to NOT sign Bale.
Cue photos of Woodward with a shit-eating grin presenting Bale to the media...
Cue photos of Woodward with a shit-eating grin presenting Bale to the media...
How to get out of this mess
- Thread starter Ahsan_6386
- Start date
First is to stop letting Woodward call the shots and hire a DoF.
Then we slowly sell almost everyone from this squad over the course of many years and get whoever Ole wants.
Then we slowly sell almost everyone from this squad over the course of many years and get whoever Ole wants.
I would say we should get a DoF, ideally with a modern approach unrelated to our own bygone eras, and then get the players they would advise to get as part of a long term strategy.
If everything is built around Ole trying to resurrect the days of old, then we'll still be looking to modernize when his time comes to a screeching end.
Hope that's the plan but I can only forsee the latter. Woodward won't be sacked
Strange comparison. They were bought years earlier than Fred, before City heavily inflated transfer prices.
I honestly don't think Glazers/Ed are much of a problem. The only thing they've done wrong since Sir Alex retired was not employing a DoF. The main problem is our recruitment strategy which is entirely the fault of our recruitment department and our previous Managers. I do blame Ed for not employing a DoF for overseeing the redesign of our squad, but I can understand why they didn't initially as from their perspective nothing was wrong under Sir Alex so why change a good thing? But surely now having watched LVG/Jose squander hundreds of millions on mediocre talent they should realise by now that they need someone to police our Managers. Ed can't be that man, he doesnt have the footballing background to do it.
As for the squad, I think it's largely down to poor balance coupled with signing players because they're big names rather than assessing their attitude and form. Sir Alex always used to make a big deal out of needing to ensure we got players with the right attitude along with ability. It was always going to be tricky to replace Rio, Evra, Carrick, Giggs and co, we've ballsed it up big time.
Where ever he is in the next few years, pretty sure there will be have some great moments, with more and more Injuries.
In my view his days as a potential United player are gone, cant blame him, but dont want him here on his last big payday.
Good luck, but hope its not at United
It would be nice to get a proper captain again,a man, a leader in the dressing room who Ole can rely on.
He can still play a role for Utd rather than booted out the door but away from transfers.
VDS as our new DOF would be a huge advantage, since Ajax have new generation of exciting players so that connection helps in the long run eg. Player recruitments.
He also got good exps managing at the top as director so the know how is there. Model professional as well and knows Ajax's football, not too big of a different to United's football, in some specific sense.
And no doubt he totally understand United.
Would he be interested? Possible. Iirc he did gave interview hinting that he's interested.
New transfer strategy...
Priority sign young British talent - Rice, Sancho, Sessegnon
Or Premier league proven quality - Zaha, Neves, Ndidi
Or young continental players at the right price who have the pace/power/technical quality to thrive in the running/pressing game Ole will try to play - Thomas Partey, Ziyech, Joachim Andersen, Van de Beek, Nicolas Pepe, Tanguy, Fekir
Priority sign young British talent - Rice, Sancho, Sessegnon
Or Premier league proven quality - Zaha, Neves, Ndidi
Or young continental players at the right price who have the pace/power/technical quality to thrive in the running/pressing game Ole will try to play - Thomas Partey, Ziyech, Joachim Andersen, Van de Beek, Nicolas Pepe, Tanguy, Fekir
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I can't disagree with what you have suggested. We are also missing leaders though, players who will take control and stand up and be counted.
Sell Pogba. We were the best team in the world before signing him.
The fact that United have only ever sold 4 players for more than £20m says it all. The entire LVG cleanout recouped a pittance for example.
We’re a graveyard for players with a clueless CEO that gets taken to the cleaners every time.
We’re a graveyard for players with a clueless CEO that gets taken to the cleaners every time.
You guys live in a parallel reality.
VDS is not a DoF. He never was. He studied marketing after hanging up his gloves and became the Marketing Director of Ajax. After 4 years of that he took the job of CEO, which he currently holds. He has the same trajectory as Ed Woodward. Marc Overmars is the Technical Director of Ajax which makes him in charge of football decisions.
Stop suggesting VDS for the roles of DoF/Technical Director. He actively modeled his career to move away from football matters and more into business management.
A good article on all the problems surrounding us and why solutions will be tough
https://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/fiv...oblems-and-why-they/nzik1fimv5dd1i1h7pra6pz3l
https://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/fiv...oblems-and-why-they/nzik1fimv5dd1i1h7pra6pz3l
We lacked any guidance or structure from the top down. LvG commented how surprised he was how much of a say he had in transfers compared to to other clubs. Glazers left the football to the footballing people - but they didn't implement the correct people to begin with when those in the position originally moved on. Leaving Woodward take over from Gill for instance despite his inexperience and connections on the footballing side. They are too standoffish and have to shoulder a lot of the responsibility to allow Woodward as much decision making as he has.
We've been on a downward spiral for a good few years. Why as owners haven't they looked after their (or their banks) investment?
You just get the impression there is little future proofing involved. The length they happily allowed the review of the youth setup as it went down the swanny and gazumped by Cities.
Declan Rice is that player. If we can find a leader for center-back also then we are heading in the right direction. Skriniar seems like an ideal candidate if Inter are willing to sell.
Watching the rain come flooding through the roof last night sums up the state of the club. Nothing will change under the ownership. The only things fans can do is vote with their feet and wallets and make their voices heard. These people have to be pressured to sell the club if possible. A few more years of this and fans will be clamouring for the Saudi prince. It seems so distasteful now, but I think people will not adjust well to continued terminal decline. And it is terminal.
My guess is they employed very experienced Managers with the intention of letting them get on and sort the football side of the club out. It's only when the Jose experiment failed did the mention of DoF become more serious.
Well said
You forgot that we are now more a business than a football club
How to get out of this mess
Start with a basis of the best young talent we have
Goal Romero, Henderson Grant 3
Defense Laird, Dalot, Tuanzebe, Shaw, Williams 5
Midfield Gomes, McT, Levitt, Gardner 4
Attack Greenwood, Chong, Rashford, Martial 4
(16)
Need 9 experienced players to make up the squad
1 experienced right back: 1 of Smalling and Lidelof and 1 new experienced Center Back 3
Pogba + 3 midfielders 4
2 attackers, 1 quick player who can play wide and 1 goalscorer 2
(9)
so what do we need to buy
1 experienced right back
1 experienced Center Back
2 midfielders if we keep one of Pereira or Fred
2 Attackers
we loose
Damian
Jones
One of Smalling Lidelof
Young, Jesse, Mata. Herrera, De Gea
Herrea
Mata
either Pereira or Fred
Start with a basis of the best young talent we have
Goal Romero, Henderson Grant 3
Defense Laird, Dalot, Tuanzebe, Shaw, Williams 5
Midfield Gomes, McT, Levitt, Gardner 4
Attack Greenwood, Chong, Rashford, Martial 4
(16)
Need 9 experienced players to make up the squad
1 experienced right back: 1 of Smalling and Lidelof and 1 new experienced Center Back 3
Pogba + 3 midfielders 4
2 attackers, 1 quick player who can play wide and 1 goalscorer 2
(9)
so what do we need to buy
1 experienced right back
1 experienced Center Back
2 midfielders if we keep one of Pereira or Fred
2 Attackers
we loose
Damian
Jones
One of Smalling Lidelof
Young, Jesse, Mata. Herrera, De Gea
Herrea
Mata
either Pereira or Fred
Well said. The stadium- why don’t the press ask woody and the Glazers what their plans are, what their vision for facilities is? The stadium says it all, never mind the set up, players and backroom team. Woodward is a joke
The news is that 1billion dollars has been wiped off the clubs value since August last year. Whether that impacts spending power I do not know. What impact will having no champions league on top of that do to what we need in the summer. I reckon 2 new players tops.
First of all I'd look at the current squad and identify those players that I'd still want here at the start of the 2020-21 season. Fixing this squad is not possible in one summer, might as well accept that it is going to take a bit longer and plan ahead. Shortterm fixing and just throwing money at big names has helped put us into the current mess, so I hope the club has learned a lesson or two over the past couple of years. This club needs a clear blueprint and patiently stick to it for a change.
How to get out of this mess? Disable the 'Post New Thread' option.
We are a crumbling dynasty with rot and incompetence at all levels and it’s gone on for so many years there is no quick fix now. And the worst part is we probably haven’t hit rock bottom yet, I think it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
As a club we exude this sense of entitlement (we're Manchester United, biggest club in the worrld, we should be winning everything/something, and if we aren't successful we'll spend money until we are). This is a ridiculous mindset to have, and we deserve to fail if it's all we can come up with.
A trawl through the posts on this site from the various Football Manager 20xx refugees will tell you all you need to know - buy X, buy Y, Z isn't good enough, blah blah, blah. We spent 26 years (1967 to 1993) bringing the league title back to Old Trafford, and in that time spent plenty on bringing star players to the club to no avail. Liverpool have gone down the same path (28 years and counting).
What finally brought us success was having a vision, and sticking to it despite early failures (we could have been the club that sacked the greatest manager of all time and, in today's climate, probably would have been). So, to answer the question, find the vision, put the structure in place to make it happen, and stay patient.
We will not win the league next year, or probably in the 3 after that. Our goal has to be a stepwise improvement towards winning the league. We have to decide whether we are going to do that by recruiting the world's best players, whatever the price - expensive, and absolutely no guarantee of success - or by developing excellence in our training, development and scouting, and building a winning team from within helped by a few well judged marquee signings - ultimately less expensive, but also with no guarantee of success.
I know which route I'd prefer.
A trawl through the posts on this site from the various Football Manager 20xx refugees will tell you all you need to know - buy X, buy Y, Z isn't good enough, blah blah, blah. We spent 26 years (1967 to 1993) bringing the league title back to Old Trafford, and in that time spent plenty on bringing star players to the club to no avail. Liverpool have gone down the same path (28 years and counting).
What finally brought us success was having a vision, and sticking to it despite early failures (we could have been the club that sacked the greatest manager of all time and, in today's climate, probably would have been). So, to answer the question, find the vision, put the structure in place to make it happen, and stay patient.
We will not win the league next year, or probably in the 3 after that. Our goal has to be a stepwise improvement towards winning the league. We have to decide whether we are going to do that by recruiting the world's best players, whatever the price - expensive, and absolutely no guarantee of success - or by developing excellence in our training, development and scouting, and building a winning team from within helped by a few well judged marquee signings - ultimately less expensive, but also with no guarantee of success.
I know which route I'd prefer.
Well, at the time when they were brought, they were young promising prospects. It's not Gill's fault that they didn't live up to the hype.
We played quite well against City in the first half. No doubt about it. Pep had to do some talking to his players in the half. Not too sure what Ole did and we all know the over haul won’t happen over night.
Martials a CF. Young isn’t much of anything anymore. But I really think that set up we had was quite interesting. And was actually working. Switch Lingard for someone like Greizman and it’s a different story. And of course getting in a ball playing CB for darmian and getting rid of young. Really can’t ignore how threatening we were in the first half.
I’m also confused as to what the glazers have done so wrong. The biggest thing is putting faith in Woodward. The hunch of mine is that it was Woodward’s call to appoint Ole so quick and if it fails the Wood man had his last swing of the axe so to say. That being said I want Ole to succeed- but he really needs to do a lot of work in the off season in terms of tactics. He’s likeable and can lead the lads , but he needs a consistent shape and backup plan. Pretty sure that’s what Guardiola does over there. The intensity we brought against city should be brought against everyone and I think it will when we get our fitness down. I do think Fred and Mctominay show some great intensity in the center and Rashford as well. Seems like Rashford needs a stronger system around him to flourish- almost a specific one.
Anyway, ranting is over and I truly think it’s going to be better. Just a shame this slump might deter players away or lose Ole the job.
Martials a CF. Young isn’t much of anything anymore. But I really think that set up we had was quite interesting. And was actually working. Switch Lingard for someone like Greizman and it’s a different story. And of course getting in a ball playing CB for darmian and getting rid of young. Really can’t ignore how threatening we were in the first half.
I’m also confused as to what the glazers have done so wrong. The biggest thing is putting faith in Woodward. The hunch of mine is that it was Woodward’s call to appoint Ole so quick and if it fails the Wood man had his last swing of the axe so to say. That being said I want Ole to succeed- but he really needs to do a lot of work in the off season in terms of tactics. He’s likeable and can lead the lads , but he needs a consistent shape and backup plan. Pretty sure that’s what Guardiola does over there. The intensity we brought against city should be brought against everyone and I think it will when we get our fitness down. I do think Fred and Mctominay show some great intensity in the center and Rashford as well. Seems like Rashford needs a stronger system around him to flourish- almost a specific one.
Anyway, ranting is over and I truly think it’s going to be better. Just a shame this slump might deter players away or lose Ole the job.
Drink and drugs? Usually works, no?
They were nowhere near as good to replace those players. As scholes himself once said there is something wrong in a club when their best midfielders are at the wrong side of their 30s
How do United get out of this mess? Find new, incredibly rich, competent owners: with a plan and strategy which doesn't involve ripping off the club left, right and centre.
It's now a decade since Summer 2009, when Ronaldo left. Saha had exited a year earlier. Almost imperceptibly, his departure started the decline; Ronaldo's move to Madrid meant it started to gather pace. As the team became more and more dependent on Rooney, there was a very palpable drop-off in United's style of play and quality - and Ferguson did his greatest work ever in papering over the cracks and still winning big things and going close. United were winning on aura, willpower, force of personality, memory almost... but hardly on great football any longer.
Then he left - and the fur hit the fan. 6 years on, what is United's style of play? What is their identity? They've not got one - because they don't have owners who either care enough or understand how to build for the long term. Liverpool do. Tottenham do. Man City do, and have insane amounts of cash available to them too. United don't. United have no plan whatsoever.
"Let's sign a bunch of ludicrously expensive players, and it'll all just magically come right". It's ridiculous. If the Alexis situation, the Lukaku situation, the Pogba situation, the Di Maria situation and the Schweinsteiger situation haven't told United fans loud and clear that things are as wrong as they could possibly be behind the scenes, I've no idea what would. Ditto Jones and Smalling still being there; or Shaw being disgracefully out of shape; or Lingard and Rashford, however much I like both of them, apparently being the entirety of Manchester United's attacking threat despite the club having spent hundreds of millions.
Against City, there wasn't much wrong with United's attitude. They were just completely outclassed by a club which, on the field and off it, is about a decade ahead. I thought United looked like mid-table cloggers for most of the game: hoping for a break, but with no chance beyond that. Is that the manager's fault? No: he's a symptom, not a cause. A club United's size being run properly wouldn't appoint a United legend because "he bleeds United" in the first place. Is it the players' fault? No. Players wouldn't have such poor attitudes if the club was being run properly; if they were inspired by playing for it, instead of worn down by a culture which has collapsed, completely, since Ferguson retired.
Top level sport is all about leadership - and leadership starts at the top. "No leaders on the pitch, no big personalities, they won't stand up and be counted" moan the pundits... but of course there's no leadership on the pitch, because there's none off it. That's how this stuff works. City have had proper leadership for over a decade: they've built, and built, and built some more, always to a plan, always upgrading to a better manager only when the previous one had obviously reached his sell-by date. Liverpool have had proper leadership since FSG bought the club, and especially since they appointed Klopp. Very few managers in world football can play very attractive football, build for the long term and get results now too. Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino are three among a tiny group across the world.
Klopp is reported to have turned United down in Summer 2014. I've no idea if that's true or not; all I know is I was astonished when Van Gaal went to Old Trafford instead. Would Poch go there now? No chance. Why leave a club in a great place off the pitch, where he's adored, for an absolute shambles of a club with higher expectations and total incompetents he'd have to work with? It's the poisoned chalice par excellence now.
It doesn't matter how much the club spends when it all goes on completely wrong kinds of players. Would United have signed someone like Andy Robertson, and improved him in the way Liverpool have? Would Raheem Sterling have been half as good for United as he's been for City? Demanding, world class managers who know how they're going to play attract and improve quality footballers. Look at Harry Kane signing a new contract at Spurs. He's happy there, even though it's hellishly difficult for them to win either of the biggest prizes on offer. How many players are happy at United? Why on Earth would they be?
It's a fiasco; a never-ending debacle. With those in command (sic) in total denial about how far the club's fallen behind. Even Old Trafford itself looks tired, dated, in desperate need of a lick of paint. And removing Woodward, appalling at his job though he is, ain't some magic bullet either. This has been going on far, far too long now for it to be so. When this many players fail, when this many managers fail, the problem's much more fundamental. Nothing will change until the Glazers go.
It's now a decade since Summer 2009, when Ronaldo left. Saha had exited a year earlier. Almost imperceptibly, his departure started the decline; Ronaldo's move to Madrid meant it started to gather pace. As the team became more and more dependent on Rooney, there was a very palpable drop-off in United's style of play and quality - and Ferguson did his greatest work ever in papering over the cracks and still winning big things and going close. United were winning on aura, willpower, force of personality, memory almost... but hardly on great football any longer.
Then he left - and the fur hit the fan. 6 years on, what is United's style of play? What is their identity? They've not got one - because they don't have owners who either care enough or understand how to build for the long term. Liverpool do. Tottenham do. Man City do, and have insane amounts of cash available to them too. United don't. United have no plan whatsoever.
"Let's sign a bunch of ludicrously expensive players, and it'll all just magically come right". It's ridiculous. If the Alexis situation, the Lukaku situation, the Pogba situation, the Di Maria situation and the Schweinsteiger situation haven't told United fans loud and clear that things are as wrong as they could possibly be behind the scenes, I've no idea what would. Ditto Jones and Smalling still being there; or Shaw being disgracefully out of shape; or Lingard and Rashford, however much I like both of them, apparently being the entirety of Manchester United's attacking threat despite the club having spent hundreds of millions.
Against City, there wasn't much wrong with United's attitude. They were just completely outclassed by a club which, on the field and off it, is about a decade ahead. I thought United looked like mid-table cloggers for most of the game: hoping for a break, but with no chance beyond that. Is that the manager's fault? No: he's a symptom, not a cause. A club United's size being run properly wouldn't appoint a United legend because "he bleeds United" in the first place. Is it the players' fault? No. Players wouldn't have such poor attitudes if the club was being run properly; if they were inspired by playing for it, instead of worn down by a culture which has collapsed, completely, since Ferguson retired.
Top level sport is all about leadership - and leadership starts at the top. "No leaders on the pitch, no big personalities, they won't stand up and be counted" moan the pundits... but of course there's no leadership on the pitch, because there's none off it. That's how this stuff works. City have had proper leadership for over a decade: they've built, and built, and built some more, always to a plan, always upgrading to a better manager only when the previous one had obviously reached his sell-by date. Liverpool have had proper leadership since FSG bought the club, and especially since they appointed Klopp. Very few managers in world football can play very attractive football, build for the long term and get results now too. Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino are three among a tiny group across the world.
Klopp is reported to have turned United down in Summer 2014. I've no idea if that's true or not; all I know is I was astonished when Van Gaal went to Old Trafford instead. Would Poch go there now? No chance. Why leave a club in a great place off the pitch, where he's adored, for an absolute shambles of a club with higher expectations and total incompetents he'd have to work with? It's the poisoned chalice par excellence now.
It doesn't matter how much the club spends when it all goes on completely wrong kinds of players. Would United have signed someone like Andy Robertson, and improved him in the way Liverpool have? Would Raheem Sterling have been half as good for United as he's been for City? Demanding, world class managers who know how they're going to play attract and improve quality footballers. Look at Harry Kane signing a new contract at Spurs. He's happy there, even though it's hellishly difficult for them to win either of the biggest prizes on offer. How many players are happy at United? Why on Earth would they be?
It's a fiasco; a never-ending debacle. With those in command (sic) in total denial about how far the club's fallen behind. Even Old Trafford itself looks tired, dated, in desperate need of a lick of paint. And removing Woodward, appalling at his job though he is, ain't some magic bullet either. This has been going on far, far too long now for it to be so. When this many players fail, when this many managers fail, the problem's much more fundamental. Nothing will change until the Glazers go.
Well said sir. I wholeheartedly agree.
1. put structure in place (DoF, Technical Director)
2. Identify transfer strategy and squad development
3. Analyse scouting information
4. Get players in/out
5. assess player progress
6. do 2 again and repeat
really we should be on 3 now, ready to do 4
2. Identify transfer strategy and squad development
3. Analyse scouting information
4. Get players in/out
5. assess player progress
6. do 2 again and repeat
really we should be on 3 now, ready to do 4
Good post! Agree with all of that. Expectations on here from some quarters are ridiculous. We’ve watched so many other clubs go through these spells (while we were busy winning) without the acceptance it could one day happen to us.
Yes, this is Manchester United, but we’re not immune to the same troubles other clubs are open to. If we’re going to get back to winning the league it is going to take time and commitment.
Squad replenishment should be focused on long term potential who are hard working and technically skilled.
We need to be brutal in cutting players with poor ball retention skills.
Aim for top 4 next season with a competent balanced energetic team then add star players who fit the system to get us to the next level.
We need to be brutal in cutting players with poor ball retention skills.
Aim for top 4 next season with a competent balanced energetic team then add star players who fit the system to get us to the next level.
Back Ole properly.
Everything has said about recruitment makes sense. He doesn't want superstars. He wants young, committed players with the right character to play for United. He also seems determined to rid the club of those who don't.
Everything has said about recruitment makes sense. He doesn't want superstars. He wants young, committed players with the right character to play for United. He also seems determined to rid the club of those who don't.
Don't buy players who are not good enough. This is where the problem started. Getting Fellaini as an improvement on the midfield we had. No way was he an improvement.
The one player that surprised me was Darmian. When he played for the Italian national team he was good.
I would say sell Pogba and get another world class midfield player.
The one player that surprised me was Darmian. When he played for the Italian national team he was good.
I would say sell Pogba and get another world class midfield player.