We'll never learn. We will just keep signing average players for big fees and handing out new contracts for players who have a good game here and there.
I hope for a brutal summer
- Thread starter Escobar
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We’ll probably sell about three first team players for a combined fee of £6.75m and loan out a bunch of youngsters. For old time’s sake, we should sign resign Fred and Lee Grant, whilst giving Dalot a contract extension. Those were the days! 
You believe all the talk from Ratcliffe after being handed the reigns as well as the the appointments of Berrada and the chase for Ashworth + other key staff will be for naught?
I always saw the INEOS investment and transfer of club operations as a mutually beneficial play where the Glazers can step back from making poor football decisions and eventually stand to make more profit down the road once INEOS has straightened the ship and the club is valued higher after proving sustainable success or at least major on pitch improvements.
Woodward and Murtough put the club in a terrible position and there''s no realistic chance we'll get rid of players who need to be gotten rid of, such as Bruno and Rashford, to quickly rebuild the squad. I'm afraid it will take 3-4 seasons to have any hope of competing for the PL trophy.
We don't need loads out and loads in.
We only need to sell / release the players we really don't use (Martial, vdb, Sancho?).
Maybe sell the profitable ones like Mc Tominay, Maguire, Rashford?.
And bring players that are better than what we have at whichever position* (and that aren't injury prone). Even as little as 2 players would work.
We've failed to do that for 10 years straight.
From that period I'd say only Martinez, Varane, Casemiro and Bruno (first two seasons) are clearly an improvement from what we had and even then one of them has bee permanently injured this season and the other three are rapidly declining.
We only need to sell / release the players we really don't use (Martial, vdb, Sancho?).
Maybe sell the profitable ones like Mc Tominay, Maguire, Rashford?.
And bring players that are better than what we have at whichever position* (and that aren't injury prone). Even as little as 2 players would work.
We've failed to do that for 10 years straight.
From that period I'd say only Martinez, Varane, Casemiro and Bruno (first two seasons) are clearly an improvement from what we had and even then one of them has bee permanently injured this season and the other three are rapidly declining.
Mbappe to turn up in ManUtd spandex during transfer window and Sir Jimmy announcing we will build our version of Galaticos and brand it as "Mancticos".
With due respect, it never works.
It is so 2017/2018 Ed Woodward style (or put it in a less polite way, amateurish) rebuild - kicking out squad players at cheap prices (Felliani, Depay, Darmain and Blind, etc) replacing with new squad players (Dalot, Fred, etc) and stick to the same old underperforming starting XI (Lingard, Martial, Pogba, Rashford, Lindelof etc).
Everyone you propose to kick out bar Varane are not regular starters this year and how can this "rebuild" improve us if we keep on playing the same Rashford - Hojlund - Garnacho - Mainoo - McTominay - Bruno front six next season?
A main problems of many rebuilds of Man United, bar 2014/2016, is that we don't replace our starting XI fast enough - we keep selling squad players and replace with squad players or future stars and play the same old XI. On average, we only replace 1-2 starters per season in the past 10 years and this replacement rate is far too slow.
In the game against Brentford, 6 players in the second half have been in the senior squad for 5+ years - Rashford, McTominay, Dalot, Lindelof, awb, Maguire and Bruno is more than 4 years.
in other words, 7/10 outfield players have been in the senior squad for 4+ years.
In contrast, in Arsenal vs Man City last night, Saka is the only player who has been with the arsenal senior squad for 4+ seasons. Man City has been darn successful in the past decade but only 4/11 of their starters having stayed in their senior squad for more than 4 seasons (Silva, Foden, De Bryune, Rodri).
And rebuild proposals without involving Rashford and Bruno are not actual rebuilds.
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After Brentfords last minute goal I was ready to agree Ten Hag should be out but come to think of it with our younger players he has been great over all. The fact a manager would need to tell Bruno and the other players to be back for the last 3 minutes is silly.
Garnacho, Maino, Dalot, Hojland have been effective under Ten Hag in my opinion.
Like I said. The main people who are going to lead the new structure changes are on gardening leave and can't start in time for this summer. It's not gonna be anything major. We have FFP issues. We have to get rid of older players on shit contracts with questionable fitness records. That's the #1 priority to start with. Next year we'll have more of our structure set up, where we can start doing proper squad planning. People want big things this summer, it's not gonna happen.
selling Rashford and Bruno this summer will do a big favor to our FFP. Give them one more season, we will recoup like 40M less easily.
like I said, our rebuild should start with the first XI. I understand your rebuild proposal is a typical risk adverse approach shared by many fans (since it sounds counterintuitive to sell our supposedly "Best' players and so it is easier to axe the old/injury prone/squad ones) but it is this risk adverse approach unfortunately lead us to where we are now. We always keep the players until their stocks are low and we sell them at the low, so we need to keep playing the declined players (like Pogba in his last 2-3 seasons for us and Martial in the last 2 seasons too) and our FFP is poor due to small sale values. We sold Lingard, Pogba, Martial, Lindelof all years too late, and we can't repeat the same error again.
(hindsight: it was wrong for me to use the word "sold", Lingard, Pogba and Martial are all on a free and it has a -150M to our FFP!)
We are not ruthless enough and always give underperformers too many chances.
Is Onana safe now or do you think we will look for another keeper? I don't think the backups are strong enough in my opinion.
We're at the mercy of other clubs. There are players on our books that we can't get rid off because of previous mistakes. Inflated wages and long contracts that no one wants to buy into.
Players leaving us are Martial and Heaton. That's it. Hopefully teams will want to buy Sancho and Greenwood which will also help with FFP. I can see AWB being sold but anyone else and I'll be pleasantly surprised.
Players leaving us are Martial and Heaton. That's it. Hopefully teams will want to buy Sancho and Greenwood which will also help with FFP. I can see AWB being sold but anyone else and I'll be pleasantly surprised.
There are too many to let go and some on the cheap too. May be unthinkable under previous management to sell players cheaply (even players we don't need) but hopeful SJR's team is different.
Sancho, DVD, Ambramat, Eriksen, Varane, AWB, Magguire/Lindelof, Martial
That's 8 that we don't need.
Possibly: Onana (but he is improving), Antony, Rashford, Casemiro (he is still good to be a backup), Bruno
5 we should probably upgrade on.
Has there been any team in history that has let go of 13 players and bought in 10 in one single transfer window?
Sancho, DVD, Ambramat, Eriksen, Varane, AWB, Magguire/Lindelof, Martial
That's 8 that we don't need.
Possibly: Onana (but he is improving), Antony, Rashford, Casemiro (he is still good to be a backup), Bruno
5 we should probably upgrade on.
Has there been any team in history that has let go of 13 players and bought in 10 in one single transfer window?
Varane's contract is expiring too and I can't see us renewing on anything other than drastically reduced wages.
Getting rid of him, Martial, Sancho and potentially Casemiro would free up £1m+ per week off the wage bill. If PSG are daft enough to take Rashford off our hands, we've got the wage and FFP headroom to do a massive squad overhaul.
It's this summer with an option to extend for a year that we haven't and almost certainly won't take up.
https://theathletic.com/5134095/2023/12/13/raphael-varane-manchester-united-contract/
Old story written around the time Varane was benched.
It's only the word of one reporter and nothing else new on the matter. United haven't said anything differently so as far as we're concerned his contract expires in 2025. If he's leaving there would have been 3 months now of him being allowed to talk to other clubs and we have heard nothing of the sorts.
There'll be about 6 players sold from the first team, though it could be triple that amount.
Honestly, the only "do not sell" players we have, in my opinion, are Hojlund, Mainoo and Garnacho. Dalot has had a good season but I wouldn't be fussed if he left for decent money. Martinez was brilliant pre injury but barely played for a year now and looked way off the pace when he has. Again, if big money was offered then I'd shrug if he left.
Onana has improved since his awful start but I still don't rate him, he always looks like he has a mistake in him.
Basically, I'm cool with burning it all down and starting again from the ashes.
Honestly, the only "do not sell" players we have, in my opinion, are Hojlund, Mainoo and Garnacho. Dalot has had a good season but I wouldn't be fussed if he left for decent money. Martinez was brilliant pre injury but barely played for a year now and looked way off the pace when he has. Again, if big money was offered then I'd shrug if he left.
Onana has improved since his awful start but I still don't rate him, he always looks like he has a mistake in him.
Basically, I'm cool with burning it all down and starting again from the ashes.
Why would there be any new reports when there has been no news since? If we'd have triggered the option, that would have been reported.
With his wages and how injury prone he's been, it makes no sense at all for us to take that option up. There haven't been any reports about other clubs being in for him because nobody else would be daft enough to take him at that wage bracket either. There's every chance it plays out like the De Gea situation unless he either accepts a lower wage here or elsewhere in Europe, or the Saudis want him.
I don't think we should getting rid of Varane unless a regularly fit first team replacement is being lined up. Martinez is injured more than he's fit so can't be relied on sadly, same with Shaw.
I stopped going to Benidorm years ago!
The more time passes the less confident that it will happen. First of all it's already April and we haven't yet added the backroom staff we need to sustain this change. Secondly it's evident that we have money issues. Finally we might be overestimating ineos. Sure their heart is in the right place but their record in football is hardly inspiring
Rashford must be the priority. He fits very little of a modern style. Build around Mainoo and Garnacho
Or any other trophy, though if things get much worse we will be in contention for the wooden spoon.
Me too; the so called senior players, Maguire, Rashford, Lindelof, Varane, Casemiro, Shaw, Bruno, Wan Bissaka, Eriksen and Martial, have had their chances and their attitudes, lack of work ethics and inconsistencies are likeky to affect or infect the younger players too, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, just as Pogbas poor attitude and self importance affected/infected some of the players around him, like Rashford, Shaw, Martial and Lingard.
Bad apples can ruin an entire crop and must be weeded out. Players like Van de Beek and Sancho were bad fits from the start and also need to go and we should rebuild around Mainoo, Hojlund and Garnacho with other Academy players being blooded. After all, the kids cannot be any worse than the bunch of posers they'll be replacing.
I hope it rains more with a max temperature of 14c.I’ll be happy if it just rains less than last year.
Can you guess my hair colour?
Cant get rid of everyone, Varane should go Casimero should go Maguire, Martial . Those are 4 players who are on stupid money..
Then you have Lindelof, Antony. Rashford AWB Eriksen Shaw who are maybes
Players that won't go .. Bruno, Mctom Dalot Hojlund Garnacho Mainoo Dalot Onana Mount martinez
If the top 4 mentioned go , there's 2 new CB to come in another CM and a striker.. and more if there's a decent transfer kitty.
I don't know how long Casimero contract is 3 or 4 years .. If its longer than that he's staying for the money.. I think Varane and Maguire not long left and Martial out of contract I think so he's going.... but imo those 4 to ship out first..
And I'd bring back M. GREENWOOD.
Then you have Lindelof, Antony. Rashford AWB Eriksen Shaw who are maybes
Players that won't go .. Bruno, Mctom Dalot Hojlund Garnacho Mainoo Dalot Onana Mount martinez
If the top 4 mentioned go , there's 2 new CB to come in another CM and a striker.. and more if there's a decent transfer kitty.
I don't know how long Casimero contract is 3 or 4 years .. If its longer than that he's staying for the money.. I think Varane and Maguire not long left and Martial out of contract I think so he's going.... but imo those 4 to ship out first..
And I'd bring back M. GREENWOOD.
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I'm hearing on the grapevine that Ineos have decreed that Rashford, Bruno and McTominay are not for sale
So much for a clear out.
McT is a squad player who turns up with the odd important goal, I can take him or leave him. But if Ineos are bestowing "untouchable" status on Bruno and Rashford, you can forget about this club challenging for titles any time soon.
So much for a clear out.
McT is a squad player who turns up with the odd important goal, I can take him or leave him. But if Ineos are bestowing "untouchable" status on Bruno and Rashford, you can forget about this club challenging for titles any time soon.
Put your money where your mouth is
.Tell us three biggest names they would need to sell for the Summer to qualify as "ruthless"?I will go first:
1. Rashford - horribly inconsistent
2. Bruno - can't fit the style we play, loses ball cheaply
3. McTominay - everybody knows he is not good enough
But I am 99% certain INEOS wont sell even 2 out of those because nobody wants to buy Rashford, and Erik loves Bruno and McT
So, then - no chance for ruthless Summer, as far as I am concerned
Oh, shoot, I just noticed I apparently wrote basically the same thing you did
We could sack the whole starting 11 plus the manager and it shouldn’t be regarded as brutal. It is what is required and deserved.
It's not so much my suggestion, but what will realistically happen. If it was my suggestion I'd go more aggressive. But like I keep saying. We are not going to do major changes with Ashworth and others on gardening leave and the structure not in place. The major, more aggressive rebuild changes will start in 2025 because we'll hopefully have the structure in by then with time for them to analyze and decide on plans, and hopefully our FFP situation will be better. That means we'll have the flexibility and cash to make big changes, while also the people who we employed to make the changes will actually be able to lead them. That's not the case this summer. So it's a standard safe summer.
Also add Greenwood to my list, I keep forgetting he exists but he'll be sold too so will make money there.
Doubt it’ll happen. We went for evolution not revolution, remember.
I assume we are going to approach next season with ETH fully backed in which case what I want to see is him giving our board a list of targets and us going hard one after another trying to deliver all of them. I don’t care if they are all Ajax players and we need to spend a billion bringing them here, we need to create a situation in which he will have zero excuses if he fails to perform next year. I don’t want another ‘free pass’ kind of season where we play horribly but manager is not responsible because of some mitigating factors like he needs more time to get to know the players or we have not got him exactly the players he needs.
The squad will look a lot different after next summer even if INEOS decide to do absolutely nothing, as they are a tonne of players out of contracts.
Contracts ending Summer 2024 - Amrabat, Martial, Evans, Heaton
Contracts ending Summer 2025 - McTom, Varane, Maguire, AWB, Lindelof, Eriksen, Amad, Willy
Contracts ending Summer 2024 - Amrabat, Martial, Evans, Heaton
Contracts ending Summer 2025 - McTom, Varane, Maguire, AWB, Lindelof, Eriksen, Amad, Willy
Based on previous Caf advice we need to bring in the following;
- Potter as manager
- Poch as manager as well
- Caicedo
- Mudryk
- Eddie the Eagle
- Potter as manager
- Poch as manager as well
- Caicedo
- Mudryk
- Eddie the Eagle
Not gonna happen. Throwing out this set of players will be a process that is gonna take multiple windows. The key thing is to come up with a team above the manager that can make the correct decisions and stick with it. Not change their decision because a player came up with 6 months of good form just before his renewal.
I think we'll again find it hard to sell the dead wood. High wages, shitty performances, no one wants our players.
Realistically I don't think as much will happen as some fans would want. Looking at some of the long-term survivors we have I can see Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Mctominay, Dalot (and he should stay because he's done well) and probably Maguire staying. Lindelof and AwB are two of the only ones i can think of that are a possibility of going. Martial is finally leaving.
Realistic departures: Greenwood, Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen, Sancho, maybe Antony under a new manager.
It's kind of sad but you could argue the ones more likely to leave are only slightly worse than the ones that are probably staying. There's a couple of actual league and champions league winners there even if they're getting older.
Realistic departures: Greenwood, Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen, Sancho, maybe Antony under a new manager.
It's kind of sad but you could argue the ones more likely to leave are only slightly worse than the ones that are probably staying. There's a couple of actual league and champions league winners there even if they're getting older.