If it's a choice between Van Gaal and Giggs, i'd rather stick with Van Gaal.
I Now Have Nothing But Outright Contempt For Van Gaal And The Board
- Thread starter Rednotdead
- Start date
Contempt for van Gaal yes and have felt it for a long time, the board not so much but if the season ends with no top four after another 18 games of steaming turd and they still keep him on as manager then I'm sure I will change my mind.
They obviously don't want one of the top two managers in the world and seem ok to be playing second fiddle to City for the other. Hard times right now but I guess we just have to hope something positive happens at the end of the season, the next four months will be torture to watch I believe.
They obviously don't want one of the top two managers in the world and seem ok to be playing second fiddle to City for the other. Hard times right now but I guess we just have to hope something positive happens at the end of the season, the next four months will be torture to watch I believe.
Same here, with the difference that ive been this mood since mid November 2014
He hasn't managed to turn anything around, we're exactly were we've been under moyes.
And the whole results are going our way is utter nonsense, results are terrible, and people saw it coming a mile away when performances were poor earlier in the season but we had the results back then, poor performances eventually catches up with you, and beating swansea and a league 1 side isn't a turnaround, it's a turnaround for aston villa maybe or sunderland.
And please cut it off with go support another team bs, people are entitled to say what they want, blindly accepting failure could be more damaging to the club than warranted criticism.
I agree with the OP.
Funny you should use the word contempt.
When the landlord of my local saw me back earlier than expected, I said to him that the fans are being treated with contempt.
I left 20 mins early, and before I left the forecourt, I had heard the word "tumescent" half a dozen times.
When the landlord of my local saw me back earlier than expected, I said to him that the fans are being treated with contempt.
I left 20 mins early, and before I left the forecourt, I had heard the word "tumescent" half a dozen times.
The money we've paid is irrelevant, it's just a blunt stick to beat the management with. It doesn't matter if Fellaini cost £27m or £3m, he's not good enough either way. It's not as if we can't compete financially with other teams because we've spent elsewhere.My guess is the board is worried about becoming a sacking club since we've prided ourselves in not being one. I think the only thing the board can be held for is the appointment of two terrible managers. One they took SAF's advice so it would seem and appointed Moyes who was a complete disaster! and the other being LVG was the only really ''proven'' () manager in the market in the summer.
The managers being poorly selected is one thing but the money spent and what we've got in return in completely shocking.
Moyes:
Mata - 38.5 million (luxury player, ya I said it..)
Fellaini - 28.5 million (Not worth 10m, complete shite)
LVG:
Herrera - overpaid
Shaw - worth every penny
Blind and Rojo - worth what was paid for them, squad players at best
Di Maria - Complete flop
Darmian - Average at best
Memphis - Shite
BSF - Fine, in decline.
Morgan - Fine
That's 3 transfer windows with over £300m spent on 11 players yet Shaw, Martial and Morgan are the only one's that are top level quality which leaves us with Shaw, Martial, Morgan, De Gea and Smalling as proper United starters. That's a shocking return. It's not just a new manager we need it's 6 new players, which is exactly what £300m could have bought you.
Could be two birds with one stone, though. If Van Gaal is removed now, Giggs might make a hash of the second half of the season thus proving his unsuitability. Then we sign Guardiola from City in the summer before the season starts. Bob's your uncle.
I never looked at it that way. And if you mention two birds to Giggs it'll surely get him on board.
He'll think you mean two birds who are stoned.
I've been in this state of mind for a while but it has escalated to a new low. Fed up is definetely the word.
I'm just praying for a new signing that might bring us some joy for a while.
Alternatively while I was against it previously I'd now rather have Giggs. With him we'll play better football and because expectations of him are low our shite results will be more tolerable.
I'm just praying for a new signing that might bring us some joy for a while.
Alternatively while I was against it previously I'd now rather have Giggs. With him we'll play better football and because expectations of him are low our shite results will be more tolerable.
I watch United only because I feel I have to but I genuinely get zero enjoyment out of it nowadays, and I mean zero. I waste two hours every week with this shite and that is more than a little bit depressing.
It's all gone a bit Liverpool hasn't it ? New managers not understanding how the glory days were accomplished and ex players seen as messiahs. It seems all too familiar.
Thread title hurts my eyes
This.
The collective sequence of underachievement and unattractive performances has led to this reaction but it's worth remembering things have been worse - league (Moyes), FA Cup (Fergie).
It was dire yesterday but it has been worse (in isolated cases). Fergie led a team that deservedly lost to Leeds 1-0, in the FA Cup 3rd round and they were in League One at the time.
You need to let the Pep dream rest. He is off to City and needs to be filed along with Ramos, Alves, Ronaldo, Bale, Neymar, Muller, etc
One thing LVG got right, was when he said that us fans need re-evaluate where we lie in World football.
Expecting us to win the league every year or compete well in the CL is a thing of the past.
2 years ago we finished 7th.
Last year we finished 4th.
This year will also see us finish around 4th-5th.
This is our new level; I know it sucks, but that's what is actually happening.
As such, we cannot expect to hire the best managers/players.
When MUFC feel the need to win a trophy, they'll hire Mourinho for 2-3 years, then re-evaluate their aims.
My feeling is that the money men need us to be in the top 4 (for CL football). I think that's all they want/need. Anything more seems irrelevant.
Oh and yes...LVG has no idea how to improve us. Basically, our current team IS LVG's final vision of how our team should perform.
(44 passes before taking a shot on goal - remember that one?)
The problem is that LVG is being repeatedly out-thought by almost every manager/team we play, who are able to nullify us with lesser quality players.
To OP
I am not far behind you in years supporting the club , this year will be 53.
Although extremely down at the moment, the early 70s was the worst period for me, going from European Champions, Sir Matt retiring and getting relegated in the space of a few years was really awful.
By the end of the 80s always in hope but two or three years into Fergie's reign the light at the end of the tunnel still seemed a longway off.
For me yesterday finally put the nail in the coffin regarding LvG. I thought we were really building a solid base but now we are just playing robotic risk-free football, we may still make top 4 but there is no future in this kind of football
We do not know what is going on behind the scenes at Board Level but I cannot imagine them just waiting to see what happens over the next 18 months.
They are not stupid and clearly aware there are a lot of unhappy people. To remain a successful business as well as a successful football club they know that something has to be changed and soon. At the end of the day the fans who support the club and buy the merchandise are vital to the whole project.
I would imagine that various different possibilities have been considered, possible replacements have probably been sounded out etc etc. I would expect this to be the case but this would take time and also need to have all parties in agreement. If they intend to part company with LvG then there will be a lot going on behind the scenes that we will not know about.
This is a multi billion pound international company and is not run by amateurs, still have faith that the board will make the right decision, and I hope they realise that the correct decision has to be taken swiftly.
I am not far behind you in years supporting the club , this year will be 53.
Although extremely down at the moment, the early 70s was the worst period for me, going from European Champions, Sir Matt retiring and getting relegated in the space of a few years was really awful.
By the end of the 80s always in hope but two or three years into Fergie's reign the light at the end of the tunnel still seemed a longway off.
For me yesterday finally put the nail in the coffin regarding LvG. I thought we were really building a solid base but now we are just playing robotic risk-free football, we may still make top 4 but there is no future in this kind of football
We do not know what is going on behind the scenes at Board Level but I cannot imagine them just waiting to see what happens over the next 18 months.
They are not stupid and clearly aware there are a lot of unhappy people. To remain a successful business as well as a successful football club they know that something has to be changed and soon. At the end of the day the fans who support the club and buy the merchandise are vital to the whole project.
I would imagine that various different possibilities have been considered, possible replacements have probably been sounded out etc etc. I would expect this to be the case but this would take time and also need to have all parties in agreement. If they intend to part company with LvG then there will be a lot going on behind the scenes that we will not know about.
This is a multi billion pound international company and is not run by amateurs, still have faith that the board will make the right decision, and I hope they realise that the correct decision has to be taken swiftly.
Absolutely agree with every word.
Totally agreed. Was mulling how to start a new thread about this too.
You have it spot on mate.
Our club seems to be an unbelievable state at the moment.
The worst part is I just don't see the light....
The man may be incompetent in this league but why the need for contempt?
As an individual, he's still achieved more success in his jobs overall than most people would.
It is never as simple as firing the guy or changing the board. As many others have said in this and other threads there are so many factors and considerations to account for.
As an individual, he's still achieved more success in his jobs overall than most people would.
It is never as simple as firing the guy or changing the board. As many others have said in this and other threads there are so many factors and considerations to account for.
If only we had more fans like you. We'd really get somewhere with such unwavering loyalty and support.
Good on you mate.
At what stage would you actually demand change out of interest. How low would you go?
He's here to stay for the rest of the season whether you like it or not unfortunately.
Huh? You talk as if it's only been a couple of game like this.
Can I borrow your glasses pls mate:
Oh I am dissatisfied with LVG, no doubt about that. I may not have spent on season tickets but I always stay up for matches (in Asia).Matches are generally tedious nowadays and I wonder why I am up at 3am watching this shite when I need to wake at 6am.
In my response to the thread, I am simply wondering specifically about the feeling of 'contempt'. Dislike and anger I understand but to me contempt is for acts like adults stealing from children or something.
Does loyalty take us anywhere good? I don't know but I think negativity and boo-ing will take us nowhere but worse.
As for your question, if LVG can't get us into top 4 this season, I would demand a change. After all it was the same yardstick Moyes was measured against.
I think you mistake my point. I acknowledged that he might be incompetent in this league. I don't say he's doing well now.Huh? You talk as if it's only been a couple of game like this.
Can I borrow your glasses pls mate:
So basically if we keep getting top 4 and the football remains like this. You're content for the foreseeable future?
So you're saying he is shite, but it is pointless to do anything about it?
I like the Dickens reference. Otherwise a "meh" thread.
The worst part is that I don't see any obvious way out of this mess. Under Moyes, I (wrongly) assumed it was a blip caused by a ridiculous choice of manager. However, it seems the problems run much deeper, with systemic weaknesses throughout the football side of the organisation that were disguised by Fergie's brilliance. This is topped off by a weird dichotomy surrounding through the club, comprising ruthless, market leading (and, let's face it, crass) commercialism mixed with a conservative and dangerous nostalgic streak which looks back to 1986-2013 as though it were holy scripture providing eternal lessons on how to do things. The result for me at least after supporting them since the late 70s is increasing alienation and apathy. The next appointment after Van Gaal is absolutely critical.
It was always going to happen once the big un left us
Only for these three years where LVG is in charge. I don't really have high expectations for LVG because I always felt this was a manager for our transition. To me he was a guy that the board used to see that things remained acceptable, i.e.; TOP 4 in the short term (yes, 3 years is short term in my view because our history span decades), while grooming/hunting for the next manager. Change management is hard.
Of course if he couldn't achieve that then we need to look at alternatives. I suspect he'd be out he door.
Not saying that. Something needs to be done but there's no need for contempt was my point.
Also question is, when is the right time to be doing what needs to be done? Maybe now is not the time.
I don't believe the Glazers or Woodward are such soft, sentimental Hello Kitties. If their enterprise is threatened they will act. My opinion is that they are already acting but there is no need to publish every move. Not all linen has to be aired in public.
Moyes was sacked pretty abruptly last year so I never believe the management will be content with status quo. Look at our commercial interests; they are constantly being worked on. I suspect the footballing aspect is, too as they are intricately linked.
My perspective is that this current point may not be the best time to let LVG go even if the board are thinking it.
Totally disagree with your 'management'
What's the point changing post failure?
I'm more of a change to avoid failure typa guy
The club has huge problems and we could be due a good few years of struggling especially now the league is getting more competitive. I think the board are living in the past and are clueless in terms of which direction to take the club, Woodward is a great business man but isn't cut out to be doing his current role.
LVG is taking is backwards now, sooner he goes the better but he will be replaced by giggs who would be a risk even if we had a good squad but with our current one and all the problems that need fixing it will be a huge job for him. It could be a few years and hundreds of millions of pounds before we competing properly again.
LVG is taking is backwards now, sooner he goes the better but he will be replaced by giggs who would be a risk even if we had a good squad but with our current one and all the problems that need fixing it will be a huge job for him. It could be a few years and hundreds of millions of pounds before we competing properly again.
Having contempt for people you've never met (presumably) and who mean you no harm isn't very dignified or respectful imho.
Nonsense (imho). Look up the dictionary definition of contempt.
Hard to disagree with but the only effective way to get the message across is in the stadium. We need boos and Van Gaal out chants. We need the voices to be heard and the coverage for it to be noticed worldwide.
It'll be hard for the board to ignore if it happens a lot. Atm Old Trafford is fairly neutral imo. It's like the crowd are afraid to voice their true opinion.
It'll be hard for the board to ignore if it happens a lot. Atm Old Trafford is fairly neutral imo. It's like the crowd are afraid to voice their true opinion.
I don't think it's nostalgia myself. It's simply that the club was bought in 2005 by people from outside the football world, who viewed it as a potentially high growth business franchise. Nothing was required of them on the football end of things during the Fergie years, but now that critical decisions have to be made, they don't have the background to make them. It's natural they should look to the Fergie era as a template - it's all they know.
(Of course the appointment of Woodward as club supremo was a terrible decision - that ensured that nobody above the manager knew anything about the game)
Same sentiment post Moyes.