Correct
If we finish 4th, should Ole get the job full time? [Poll added]
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
The reason for "easy" 5 win out of 5 games, was because some players were putting in 60% effort since the start of season. Mourinho played a big part in this so don't get me wrong. But if the team has been playing at 101% every game, wear and tear would have played a key part in Xmas. Beside, those 5 games were really easier opponents, until Spur and Arsenal.
Ole has ticked a few box. Getting the team back, and tactical innovation have improved. What is still outstanding, are 1) Can the team come back from behind 2) Can the team bounce back from defeat. Then we can talk about players development, youth development, eye for good talents etc.
This is so revisionist.
The team has showed the mental resilience all first half of the season to keep coming back from behind. Game after game, when our set up led to us conceding first.
Coming back from behind is a mentality thing. Now that Ole had made the team better overall does not mean they no longer have the character to come from behind!
The team has come back under Mourinho, Ole may or may not be able to make the same tactical decision.
* Best Run of form for at least 2 years (Nov 2016 I think Jose 1st season) including 2 away games vs Top 6 opponents
* Improved our style of play
* Back in contention for Top 4, looked near impossible after 3-1 Liverpool defeat
* Players look far happier, almost all have seen in improvement in performance
* Fans are far happier watching the team
- What more would you expect? - No guarantees another manager would come in and have a positive effect. We’ll have defeats, draws & leave some matches disappointed with performance before end of the season but that’s part of football & happens to every club & manager - doesn’t mean he isn’t a perfect fit
Don’t fix what isn’t broken I’d say.
* Improved our style of play
* Back in contention for Top 4, looked near impossible after 3-1 Liverpool defeat
* Players look far happier, almost all have seen in improvement in performance
* Fans are far happier watching the team
- What more would you expect? - No guarantees another manager would come in and have a positive effect. We’ll have defeats, draws & leave some matches disappointed with performance before end of the season but that’s part of football & happens to every club & manager - doesn’t mean he isn’t a perfect fit
Don’t fix what isn’t broken I’d say.
If we beat Liverpool (imagine us beating them costs them the title), beat PSG (with no Neymar or Verratti it’s very possible) and get fourth then 100% Ole should get the job as he can’t have done more.
I thought we’d lose to Spurs but I was happily wrong and I thought we’d lose to Arsenal but again I was happily wrong, we’re beating other top 6 teams away from home whilst playing well and beating smaller teams convincingly at home which are both things we’ve struggled with over the past 4-5 years.
We’re still in the FA Cup and looking at the teams left in we could very well win it depending on avoiding City away, there’s such positivity around the club right now which is down to Ole so he’s ticked every single box possible and still has 4 months to really cement the job as his.
I thought we’d lose to Spurs but I was happily wrong and I thought we’d lose to Arsenal but again I was happily wrong, we’re beating other top 6 teams away from home whilst playing well and beating smaller teams convincingly at home which are both things we’ve struggled with over the past 4-5 years.
We’re still in the FA Cup and looking at the teams left in we could very well win it depending on avoiding City away, there’s such positivity around the club right now which is down to Ole so he’s ticked every single box possible and still has 4 months to really cement the job as his.
If we finished 4th from ole starting position, that's title challenge material. For us to make 4th we need big luck (at that time) and close to perfect run. If he gets it the job should be his and that's fully on merit
Top 4 should not be criteria for him.
This season was already wash up before he came,
We are back on top 4 race and I think it should be enough for job.
This season was already wash up before he came,
We are back on top 4 race and I think it should be enough for job.
Whether we can or cannot comeback to win with Ole, we won't know until we are in a position to do that but what tactical decision did Jose make for a United comeback? His game plan was the reason why we were often behind against the likes of Newcastle etc... telling attacking players to attack rather than defend against the mighty bottom half teams isn't a tactic.
Literally every game since before Newcastle, I have had a mate saying the next game is the real test. Texted me again today about Burnley!
He needs to start believing.
He needs to start believing.
If Phelan wants to go back to Australia,then we should try and get in touch with Carlos Queiroz.He was a terrific number 2 to Sir Alex who understands the club inside out,and by all accounts is a better coach than Phelan.Hes been managing Iran for 4-5 years now,and after the Asia cup he might want a change...
I mean Jose tactical decision seemed more like just letting them play with more freedom. He never really did anything that was a tactical masterclass. Jose plays simple football, always has always will and that is what got him to where he was. Played by the numbers and set up a team to have basic properties that meant it had a chance in every game.
Comebacks were never based on Jose and his tactical approach. Most of them arose from the team deciding to playing a more expansive style. Especially games like Newcastle.
More like don’t un-fix a solution you fell upon by happenstance
Ole’s not going anywhere, so it makes sense to wait until the end of the season.
I do feel if Ole is signed permanent, it’s absolutely vital they all also sign Mike Phelan, often the unsung hero.
I do feel if Ole is signed permanent, it’s absolutely vital they all also sign Mike Phelan, often the unsung hero.
Let me address all the answers in 1 post.
Jose Plan A may be conservative, and his Plan B when sitting on a 1 goal lead is MORE conservative towards the 80th min. Do you think he would instruct his players to sleep on the job until 30th min? I doubt it. All those crazy starts were probably due to the fact that half of the team switch off with disbelief on Mourinho's Plan A until....
Mourinho's strength, was his ability to make changes, sometime as early as 1st half. The target players may be affected but he can make decision and the impact can be effective.
Ole's Plan A may be given freedom to players which has worked so far, and his Plan A appeared to be tactically wise as evidence against Spurs and Arsenal. What I have reservation on, and should not be counted as doubt or concern, just unsure, is what tactical change he will introduce when things go south, or whether he is able to introduce the right change at the right time. Bringing Lukaku on at 60th is not a full solution, it must also means instruction to the team on what to do to exploit opponent weakness.
Another reservation is what he will do after a defeat. Arsenal had a great run until the collapse. Spurs and Chelsea had a great run until the stop. City was under major criticism before the Liverpool match. What define a great team, and often a good manager, is to bounce back instantly. Do the players have the confidence on Ole who can lead them out of a mess? On the Mourinho mess, yes definitely. On a mid-term dip, we will see.
No, LVG's first second in the second half played the best football ever we seen since SAF's late 2010, we completely dominated Liverpool, City, Spurs and Chelsea (we should have won that games, classic Jose's masterclass of parking bus, that gave us a hope for next season (2015-16) but fecked up by poor transfer windows and injuries crisis.
With our mentality to come back as we proved that under Jose with the same squad as Ole has now and Ole proved that we can go on a consistent winning run and winning games away at the likes of Spurs and Arsenal is title challanging form martial. So if we spend 150m net again on CB, RW and fullbacks, then we can achieve high point tally of 90-100+ points next season.
100% I actually believe we will get 3rd but 4th would be excellent.
No doubt all this is true but I think Ole also most likely had a say in getting some of the staff in. Phelan for an example seems like a likely candidate as an Ole selection while Carrick and McKenna would have been an obvious choice for him to keep on.
Had it been any other non United based coach coming in after Mourinho, what's the chance this team would be here? Minimal is my guess.
Ole has been fantastic.
I disagree, with Pogba in the set up now, we look even better. Ole also has us scoring goals galore.
So who is this mythical 'top class manager' you talk about in your 2nd option? It seems to me we've already tried your 2nd option and it didn't work.
Ole knows the United way and also is respected as a club legend, he is learning and taking 1 game at a time. It's not just him but the team around him that has to be but in place and a DOF and Mike Phelan being vital to getting us were we belong.
I can't see anyone else who we can bring in to take us to the next level and play the United way.
Agreed. Under van Gaal we were winning by not conceding and won quite a few games 1-0 all the while, while teams were attacking us. Not van Gaal's fault though as Moyer fecked the team over that first season and teams then started believing they could beat United at Old Trafford. That laid the ground work for a lot of teams following that course of action.
Ole however has the team attacking/counter-attacking again. Something van Gaal and Mourinho couldn't really maintain throughout their tenure. Yes you would have one or two games where United would go on a run, but it would always be short lived with van Gaal believing rather in a defensive approach first or with Mourinho trying to get the first goal in then changing to parking the bus.
Ole, his first game in charge had the lads scoring 5 goals. Last time that happened was the last game of Sir Alex. 8 games and 22 goals. Did van Gaal or Mourinho have the same stat or better at any stage in their tenure? I remember in Mou's second season we started with a bang but after losing to City it all started to crumble and the team went into a defensive phase after that.
I know under van Gaal we went though a period of clean sheets however I don't remember the team scoring as much and remember the crowd chanting "ATTACK! ATTACK!ATTACK!" under both van Gaal and Mourinho.
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Spot on..
I already said that earlier on, but the way it looks like right now I would give him at least another season even if it's just the 5th place unless there is a catastrophic collapse in quality of play.
Finishing 4th from the position Ole started looked almost impossible and requires other teams to feck up as well.
Finishing 4th from the position Ole started looked almost impossible and requires other teams to feck up as well.
Right,so because 1 high profile manager doesn’t work out,we never try to appoint a manager with experience at the highest level again...
Based on the next few rounds of fixtures we're in with a shout of breaking into the top 4 in March.
Whether we can hold it is another question, but right now the momentum is with us and against our rivals.
Whether we can hold it is another question, but right now the momentum is with us and against our rivals.
We've tried two and a half managers, really.
You answered a question with a question, tell me who this manager is who you believe fits the profile you just described?
Think the champions league tie will be huge for Ole. If we look good over the two legs it will greatly enhance his stock. If we struggle and look bad, think that will push certain decision makers over towards Poch.
Fergie like luck with cup draws so far.
The best we have played since SAF is LVG's first pre season where we played 3-5-2 and looked like Barcelona...then we played the first game in the league against fit opposition and reality struck!
LVG stumbled upon good form, players and positions, although the short period you mention was decent football
For the first time since SAF, I'm watching a team that dominates 3/4 of the matches v lesser teams camped out in their half and great counter-attacking football against the better teams. Why risk throwing this away for a 'proven' manager...where has that got us the last few years. OGS all the way regardles of if we get 4th or not
I”m the OP,I”m not against Ole getting the job...But I think it’s utterly idiotic to jump to the conclusion that there shouldn’t be any debate any more,and we should just give him the job.Thankfully the people who run this club aren’t so brain dead...
As for the managers who we could try to sign,there’s a manager who won 3 Championsleagues in a row available right now....I don’t care what anybody says,no matter how good your team is,only a very very talented coach/manager can guide his team to 3 CL’s in a row...
Plenty of managers have had extraordinary teams over the last 25 years,and nobody ever managed to even win 2 CL’s back to back.Not Mourinho....Not Guardiola....Nobody....Obviously Zidane has to be a big candidate,along with pochettino.We can’t close our eyes to all these great managers and just zero in on Ole.
Like I said,I”m not against him getting the job,but it’s still far too early to jump to conclusions and say that nobody but Ole should be considered for the job...
I don't think top four is even necessary at this point.
What he has done so far is sufficient for me to get the job full season.
He has been a breath of fresh air, in terms of football, attitude and on air.
What he has done so far is sufficient for me to get the job full season.
He has been a breath of fresh air, in terms of football, attitude and on air.
This can actually happen, but it can also happen that Ole makes a miracle this season, is appointed permanently and than completely flops in the next season.
It could go either way.
Tactically he hasn't been perfect, but he's won 8 in a row. Our defense isn't air-tight, but we're scoring goals and attacking like Manchester United again. He can still improve, but he's done everything asked of him and more. Obviously time will tell if this is the squad bouncing back from years of misery under Mourinho, but I really think he's got what it takes. I also think his profile fits perfectly if we're going to appoint a DoF.
I cannot complain about his tactics.
Our Defence has improved a lot.
We still need to strengthen there and in other areas in the summer.
But as @Cockney Phil has said, we have a strong spine.
Our Defence has improved a lot.
We still need to strengthen there and in other areas in the summer.
But as @Cockney Phil has said, we have a strong spine.
We were sleeping on the RHS with Mata and Periera but I won't fault on Ole as it was a necessary rotation, although I am inclined to think Fellaini might be better for Burnley's style? Anyway, the problem was on sub. Why taking out Lukaku instead of Rashford, when the latter was clearly out of sort. Did you notice that the entire team stop after Rashford missed that chance and allowed Burnley to score the 2nd? It was an unbelievable miss, would you think Lukaku can do it better? I would only give Ole a 6/10 on Plan B.
If we finish outside the top 4 should Ole get the job ?
I think it depends what the mood is like come summer. If the season finished tomorrow, I think he should get the job without doubt. Regardless of top 4.
He has done marvellous so far. Much better than I thought possible at the point he took over.