If you don’t understand why Ole is a gamble worth taking… you’re doing football support wrong

[Kajus]

Mourinho threw the toys out the pram after spending shitloads of money.

OGS didn't do anything even after not signing players in crucial positions.

Ah, so there is a very particular acceptable scenario regarding throwing one's toys out the pram. Could you point me to an example where doing so ended up good for the manager and the club?

 

[Lynty]

His results since Liverpool have been quite good and those that expected a quick fix are deluded. This is not a squad or team that is built around experienced heads like Chelsea (see Kante, William etc) but rather youthful essence. Literally the experience in this team comes from De Gea, Maguire and Pogba.

This is my feeling too.

 

[Lynty]

A big portion of the support is unfortunately not very bright. The same people who are shouting Ole out at the top of their breaths are the same people who rage in the match day forum whenever Rashford's (our best club-produced prospect since I don't know, fecking Giggs or something) touch goes bad. It is not that they don't understand how football works, they don't understand how the world works. They are more likely to use caps lock and simple language when they write, because they know deep down that their arguments count for nothing – unfortunately this makes them appear louder, and also, perhaps more powerful than those who try to remain reasonable.

Disregard the fact that Ed's words ring true when he says it seems Ole has instigated a discipline that his predecessors declined or were unable to do. That he is diligent and demands everything that they have to give from the players. We know that he gives them bollockings despite his mild-seeming demeanor. We know that he promotes youth. We know that he is trying to get rid of a lot of the players that has been widely agreed to not meet the standard that we require (Fellaini, Darmian etc) We know that he wants (WANTS) to play attacking football. We should also know, if we step back to think for two seconds, that young players are impressionable and that it is more likely to weigh on them, that insane pressure, of playing for the biggest club in England, which to make matters worse, that club has been struggling for several years. So that it is a huge club with a correspondingly huge expectation – too great for where it is at the moment. Which might make them hesitate, not follow the plan, not manage to attack when Ole wants them to, simply because the pressure gets to them and they start to play like robots.

So that we know, in effect, that he is addressing a lot of the underlying problems – he is trying to put the framework for success in place. As it was with Klopp and Fergie early on, their early work led to a oscillation in results between the sublime and the abysmal – 4 nil win against Chelsea is offset by 1 nil loss against Watford, is succeeded by becoming the only team so far this season to snatch a point or two from title-rushing Liverpool.

He seems to be doing everything right, and yet it takes time. Any place, anywhere you go, if you want to succeed you have to do the basics right. Somehow, for some reason, the success is never instantaneous.

Will he succeed? It's an open question. I think the biggest hurdle are these unmeetable expectations, perpetuated by the not-very-bright. Unfortunately their voices are very loud.

No other manager will come in and do better. Perhaps we could get in a Jose type coach to haul us to 4th or 3rd with the use of mercenaries again. But we will be back in the mire soon – he won't persist as loyally with the youth, who won't get the requisite experience, who won't as a consequence become the backbone of a future title winning side.

Even to get us to the top through the plastic route, by spending, we need a vision, we need a strategy, we need a project. But it seems the money is not there.

So we have to do it the hard way, with our youth – who the feck is better to do it that way than Solskjaer?

They say your Poch will come in and instantly make this group of players better? With Pereira and Lingard in midfield? Hah. Don't make me laugh.

And so you will say, but but, Solskjaer let Lukaku and Herrera go without bringing in replacements? Yes, but he is planning long term, he doesn't want to get in just anybody who will do a job for us two years and feck off to some mid-table club in Spain – he wants future long-serving servants, he wants to build a spine.

He is in a word, trying to institute a project.

But, silly me, I forget – you don't have time for that, do you?

Or rather, you are incapable of catching even the faintest glimpse of what is being done behind the scenes, blinded as you are, by the white gleaming sheen of the scoreboard?

Good second post.

Thought I'd get in there before somebody else tries to shoot you down.

 

[JPRouve]

Ah, so there is a very particular acceptable scenario regarding throwing one's toys out the pram. Could you point me to an example where doing so ended up good for the manager and the club?

I'm not advocating it because I don't really like that type of things but the open conflict between Antero Henrique and Tuchel led to the sacking of the former and an actual focus on bringing center midfielder at PSG which was badly needed.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Two points off fifth, and chugging along nicely in the cups, it could be worse considering the mess Mourinho left behind.

You need a shower to get all that sand out of your hair mate.

 

[Majima]

A big portion of the support is unfortunately not very bright. The same people who are shouting Ole out at the top of their breaths are the same people who rage in the match day forum whenever Rashford's (our best club-produced prospect since I don't know, fecking Giggs or something) touch goes bad. It is not that they don't understand how football works, they don't understand how the world works. They are more likely to use caps lock and simple language when they write, because they know deep down that their arguments count for nothing – unfortunately this makes them appear louder, and also, perhaps more powerful than those who try to remain reasonable.

Disregard the fact that Ed's words ring true when he says it seems Ole has instigated a discipline that his predecessors declined or were unable to do. That he is diligent and demands everything that they have to give from the players. We know that he gives them bollockings despite his mild-seeming demeanor. We know that he promotes youth. We know that he is trying to get rid of a lot of the players that has been widely agreed to not meet the standard that we require (Fellaini, Darmian etc) We know that he wants (WANTS) to play attacking football. We should also know, if we step back to think for two seconds, that young players are impressionable and that it is more likely to weigh on them, that insane pressure, of playing for the biggest club in England, which to make matters worse, that club has been struggling for several years. So that it is a huge club with a correspondingly huge expectation – too great for where it is at the moment. Which might make them hesitate, not follow the plan, not manage to attack when Ole wants them to, simply because the pressure gets to them and they start to play like robots.

So that we know, in effect, that he is addressing a lot of the underlying problems – he is trying to put the framework for success in place. As it was with Klopp and Fergie early on, their early work led to a oscillation in results between the sublime and the abysmal – 4 nil win against Chelsea is offset by 1 nil loss against Watford, is succeeded by becoming the only team so far this season to snatch a point or two from title-rushing Liverpool.

He seems to be doing everything right, and yet it takes time. Any place, anywhere you go, if you want to succeed you have to do the basics right. Somehow, for some reason, the success is never instantaneous.

Will he succeed? It's an open question. I think the biggest hurdle are these unmeetable expectations, perpetuated by the not-very-bright. Unfortunately their voices are very loud.

No other manager will come in and do better. Perhaps we could get in a Jose type coach to haul us to 4th or 3rd with the use of mercenaries again. But we will be back in the mire soon – he won't persist as loyally with the youth, who won't get the requisite experience, who won't as a consequence become the backbone of a future title winning side.

Even to get us to the top through the plastic route, by spending, we need a vision, we need a strategy, we need a project. But it seems the money is not there.

So we have to do it the hard way, with our youth – who the feck is better to do it that way than Solskjaer?

They say your Poch will come in and instantly make this group of players better? With Pereira and Lingard in midfield? Hah. Don't make me laugh.

And so you will say, but but, Solskjaer let Lukaku and Herrera go without bringing in replacements? Yes, but he is planning long term, he doesn't want to get in just anybody who will do a job for us two years and feck off to some mid-table club in Spain – he wants future long-serving servants, he wants to build a spine.

He is in a word, trying to institute a project.

But, silly me, I forget – you don't have time for that, do you?

Or rather, you are incapable of catching even the faintest glimpse of what is being done behind the scenes, blinded as you are, by the white gleaming sheen of the scoreboard?

Anyone who is Ole out are not intelligent enough?

What a load of pretentious nonsense.

To generalise an entire group of supporters and suggest that is extremely offensive.

 

[wolvored]

By different circumstances, do you mean not having key players fit because that was the last time he had that.

Yes he picks the squad he let personnel go without replacing. He played with no fear. No need to think of the future during those games. No need to worry about the players condition. Once he got the job he changed tack and that's the only time start till now you can judge him on.

 

[WorksforTrystero]

Good second post.

Thought I'd get in there before somebody else tries to shoot you down.

Thanks, I appreciate it – especially since you quoting it makes it more visible and therefore adds weight to the argument against the sea of simple-minded expletive. Although I suppose it is naive to imagine that my post is anything more than pissing in the sea.

And just to flesh out my argument slightly , I mean, I stated pretty explicitly that I believe no one would do a better job, but in fairness I don't know that – maybe Poch would give us a new manager bounce, and maybe we'd be playing well for a while – but the same problems that we struggle with now would come back to bite him in the ass, of that I'm convinced. And then we'd be back where we are – needing to give time to a manager, needing to support his project.

Is Poch a better candidate for the job?

All I know is that Ole seems to be doing everything right, and he seems to have the steel – I was quite skeptical of the appointment in the beginning, because I thought he was too weak, too smiling, too mild with the players – but he also has the added benefit of knowing the club from top to bottom. He was there under the Fergie project, and he saw what made it work. Can he translate that to 2019? Who knows. But as far as recapturing some of the spirit of Fergie's time?

Poch doesn't stand a chance in hell, simply because he wasn't there.

Ole just might.

 

[AshRK]

Trusting and backing someone is all good and fine but blindly trusting is stupidity. Ole has defintely done some good things but sentimentality aside those are not enough for a club like Manchester United. Just because he is picking youth doesn't automatically make him Sir alex 2.0. It is good he has good bonding with the players and he understands the club culture but that all alone is not enough. He has to show he can have his team play some good football and get results. Alex Ferguson became Sir Alex Ferguson for the work he did and not just because he gave Ryan Giggs and other youth academy players a chance.

 

[Lynty]

Anyone who is Ole out are not intelligent enough?

What a load of pretentious nonsense.

To generalise an entire group of supporters and suggest that is extremely offensive.

Perhaps the internet isn't the right place for you.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Ah, so there is a very particular acceptable scenario regarding throwing one's toys out the pram. Could you point me to an example where doing so ended up good for the manager and the club?

Yes there has to be some valid reason for someone to throw a fit. The problem is that OGS was not given enough money or was not allowed to buy players making the squad weak or he chose to be happy with the weak squad - if it was the first two cases, OGS prioritized his job more than the well being of our club, if it was the third case, OGS was foolish to think our squad was good enough. Whichever way you see, it's a bad look on OGS.

 

[Ish]

A big portion of the support is unfortunately not very bright. The same people who are shouting Ole out at the top of their breaths are the same people who rage in the match day forum whenever Rashford's (our best club-produced prospect since I don't know, fecking Giggs or something) touch goes bad. It is not that they don't understand how football works, they don't understand how the world works. They are more likely to use caps lock and simple language when they write, because they know deep down that their arguments count for nothing – unfortunately this makes them appear louder, and also, perhaps more powerful than those who try to remain reasonable.

Disregard the fact that Ed's words ring true when he says it seems Ole has instigated a discipline that his predecessors declined or were unable to do. That he is diligent and demands everything that they have to give from the players. We know that he gives them bollockings despite his mild-seeming demeanor. We know that he promotes youth. We know that he is trying to get rid of a lot of the players that has been widely agreed to not meet the standard that we require (Fellaini, Darmian etc) We know that he wants (WANTS) to play attacking football. We should also know, if we step back to think for two seconds, that young players are impressionable and that it is more likely to weigh on them, that insane pressure, of playing for the biggest club in England, which to make matters worse, that club has been struggling for several years. So that it is a huge club with a correspondingly huge expectation – too great for where it is at the moment. Which might make them hesitate, not follow the plan, not manage to attack when Ole wants them to, simply because the pressure gets to them and they start to play like robots.

So that we know, in effect, that he is addressing a lot of the underlying problems – he is trying to put the framework for success in place. As it was with Klopp and Fergie early on, their early work led to a oscillation in results between the sublime and the abysmal – 4 nil win against Chelsea is offset by 1 nil loss against Watford, is succeeded by becoming the only team so far this season to snatch a point or two from title-rushing Liverpool.

He seems to be doing everything right, and yet it takes time. Any place, anywhere you go, if you want to succeed you have to do the basics right. Somehow, for some reason, the success is never instantaneous.

Will he succeed? It's an open question. I think the biggest hurdle are these unmeetable expectations, perpetuated by the not-very-bright. Unfortunately their voices are very loud.

No other manager will come in and do better. Perhaps we could get in a Jose type coach to haul us to 4th or 3rd with the use of mercenaries again. But we will be back in the mire soon – he won't persist as loyally with the youth, who won't get the requisite experience, who won't as a consequence become the backbone of a future title winning side.

Even to get us to the top through the plastic route, by spending, we need a vision, we need a strategy, we need a project. But it seems the money is not there.

So we have to do it the hard way, with our youth – who the feck is better to do it that way than Solskjaer?

They say your Poch will come in and instantly make this group of players better? With Pereira and Lingard in midfield? Hah. Don't make me laugh.

And so you will say, but but, Solskjaer let Lukaku and Herrera go without bringing in replacements? Yes, but he is planning long term, he doesn't want to get in just anybody who will do a job for us two years and feck off to some mid-table club in Spain – he wants future long-serving servants, he wants to build a spine.

He is in a word, trying to institute a project.

But, silly me, I forget – you don't have time for that, do you?

Or rather, you are incapable of catching even the faintest glimpse of what is being done behind the scenes, blinded as you are, by the white gleaming sheen of the scoreboard?

So anyone & everyone who doesn't think Ole has what it takes to succeed, are not very bright, does not understand how football works and they also do not understand how the world works?

So much for opinions eh.

 

[RK]

I agree with this view completely.



The relationship between the family and the club is different from the one between the staff and the club. More often than not, a fan could not influence the direction a club takes, so trying not to concern myself with something over which I do not have much influence makes sense to me. In the case of managers (or staff, in general), they have the power to directly and immediately impact the running of the club.

As a fan, I do hope the club appoints competent staff and would be happy for the club if they win. And I cannot do anything if the club takes decisions which, to my mind, might be completely baffling or if United do not win as often as I would like them to. But in either of the cases, I would continue supporting the club, and trying to keep myself happy with any positives I see.

Cheers, you've expanded better than I did! Idea of the family analogy was that we don't really have a say on who we get to support as fans.
We could choose to be relentlessly toxic, hoping that our unrest is noticed and the axes come swinging. But that's not support and it's not enjoyable for anyone. It's glory hunting. Much healthier to just be positive and enjoy the ride.

Its about giving your support, in the good times as well as the bad times. The Club is an entity that has zero benefits from support since it has no thoughts or feelings, where as the people that make up the club do. Everyone is entitled to their opinions about players and managers, but the amount of nasty abuse they get thrown after them is just shameful. Ole has not had the greatest of starts to the season, but i dont think anyone can doubt his commitment and love to the club and that he has the best of intentions, although the results have been poor

Saying hes out of his depth or unfit to manage a club at this level is all fair. But when you start calling a club legend cnut, clown, twat, idiot and so on because you are unhappy with the results, then you are a shite "supporter", and its abundantly clear you only like the club and the people involved in it when they are winning. In other words, a glory hunter

There is a fine line between "Wanting what is best for the club"(Read: Endless moaning over bad results) and outright toxicity. Just look at Arsenal and how ridiculously toxic their fanbase have become, spurred on by the geniuses as AFTV. Sending death threats to the pregnant wives of your own players. What the feck kind of "supporter" is that? Right now the Arsenal fans are more of a hindrance than a boon to their own club and the atmosphere in and around the Emirates have been awful for years. Luckily we are not there yet, but its not that far off either

Great post, thanks. Always good to see something like this in amongst moaning.
I've been worried about the slide into Arsenalism for a while...

 

[Paul778]

We're on this road already - unless the world implodes and we're in danger of relegation we need to stick with it. I do believe they will make 1-2 signings in January. Probably not big names, but better options that we have now in areas we are lacking.

Everyone knows that Utd were on the decline in the last few seasons of SAFs reign. At that point we were already struggling to get top notch talent in, and SAF himself had a number of punts on players that didn't work. We were extremely lucky to get Van Persie when we did and also for him to have an outstanding season.

When was the last time United really made a statement signing of a player that was an up and coming big thing, rather than a player looking for a last payout? (I know the answer you guys are going to say is Pogba, but I think he's a special case really - he doesn't seem to be driven by football - at least not here).

I've always been a fan of Ole and I was both happy and sad when he got the job permanently. I really hope he doesn't spoil his legacy.

He knows the club and knows what he wants to do, but he has one of the worst selection of playing staff in my memory (and I've been a Utd fan over 40 years). For instance, take all of our strikers in the Premier league era and put them in order, and then work out where Rashford and Martial actually sit. Would either of them even be above Saha, let alone the top tier talent we've had in that time? (Hughes, McClair, Cantona, Cole, Yorke, Van Nistolroy, Saha, Solskaer, Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Tevez). For consistency, I wouldn't put them above any of those listed. And as for the midfield, let's not even go there...

Some of the performances on the pitch haven't been great and I would have hoped he would turn out to be a better tactician but we have the squad we have - he really doesn't have that many options. You can't just have a knee jerk reaction to every bad performance and drop players willy nilly. I'm pretty sure he knows which players will be his first 11 now and where the gaps on that page are. Sure we'd have loved him to consign Lingard to the reserves earlier but you need to give players a chance to play themselves into form - there was a point on the CAF where we were all raving about him and it wasn't that long ago. That said, SAF would always go out and get the best coaches in to help him - for all the will in the world I'm not sure Carrick in his first role is ideal.

His signings are not world class but all of them have come in, shown commitment and been an improvement on the other options for those positions. He has also managed to get rid of a lot of the guys with chips on their shoulders from the club. I look at Daniel James, his energy and work ethic and it reminds me of what Ole said at the start "Noone should be outrunning United over 90 mins".

Everyone says it's going to be a journey. I'd love to United to magically be playing to the standards of Rooney/Ronaldo/Tevez in their prime, but I've been in it for the long haul this far - not going to change now. And getting another manager in and starting over would just be madness.

 

[pacifictheme]

So anyone & everyone who doesn't think Ole has what it takes to succeed, are not very bright, does not understand how football works and they also do not understand how the world works?

So much for opinions eh.

Yeah that was my take away as well. Agree or you're an idiot. Classic.

For me this thread would have been good earlier in his reign but its a year in and we have no identity. The profile of the squad is definitely going in the right direction but i don't have any belief in his ability to coach this team to become more than the sum of its parts like a good manager would. I hope i am wrong.

 

[Ban]

You need a shower to get all that sand out of your hair mate.

It took you too long to write this kind of post, page 6, I'm disappointed.

 

[Ish]

Yeah that was my take away as well. Agree or you're an idiot. Classic.

For me this thread would have been good earlier in his reign but its a year in and we have no identity. The profile of the squad is definitely going in the right direction but i don't have any belief in his ability to coach this team to become more than the sum of its parts like a good manager would. I hope i am wrong.

I sincerely hope I am wrong as well. But yeah, I don't see it with him and nothing from his coaching career says otherwise.

 

[WorksforTrystero]

So anyone & everyone who doesn't think Ole has what it takes to succeed, are not very bright, does not understand how football works and they also do not understand how the world works?

So much for opinions eh.

Unfortunately not all opinions are equally valid. There are people who opine that the Nazi regime was wonderful.

But there are degrees of validity. I have to spoon feed this point, or I will next be accused of equating wanting Ole out with Nazism. There are degrees of validity, and the best way to evaluate them is by looking at the arguments that underlie them.

Mine is backed by a fairly long argument. I have written it. I believe the argument is reasonable. The ones who argue against it have little more than results to back theirs up. We are 9th, ergo Ole sucks. They don't understand or don't want to understand that results is a reflection of decisions and causes whose effects are not immediate. Some of which causes Ole controls, some of which he doesn't. But either way we haven't seen nearly enough to know whether what he's doing is working.

I have explained why I believe that many of the things he has done will have positive long term effects.

All everyone who argues against me have is "coaching' and 'attacking patterns' and 'tactics'.

None of which were integral parts to the tenure of the greatest ever manager of English football. Hmm. What you say? They were not integral? So they are not the most important ingredients in a successfull managerial tenure you say? Is it not proven?

It goes like this: Fergie is the greatest. He was not a great tactician. The logical argument is that great tactics is not essential to success – it might help, of course, the sequence says nothing about that, but it does establish that great tactical skills are not essential.

I think the most important thing is steel and conviction. It seems Ole has it so far. Or does anyone see signs of him bending under the pressure?

So anyone & everyone who doesn't think Ole has what it takes to succeed, are not very bright, does not understand how football works and they also do not understand how the world works?

So much for opinions eh.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

A big portion of the support is unfortunately not very bright. The same people who are shouting Ole out at the top of their breaths are the same people who rage in the match day forum whenever Rashford's (our best club-produced prospect since I don't know, fecking Giggs or something) touch goes bad. It is not that they don't understand how football works, they don't understand how the world works. They are more likely to use caps lock and simple language when they write, because they know deep down that their arguments count for nothing – unfortunately this makes them appear louder, and also, perhaps more powerful than those who try to remain reasonable.

Disregard the fact that Ed's words ring true when he says it seems Ole has instigated a discipline that his predecessors declined or were unable to do. That he is diligent and demands everything that they have to give from the players. We know that he gives them bollockings despite his mild-seeming demeanor. We know that he promotes youth. We know that he is trying to get rid of a lot of the players that has been widely agreed to not meet the standard that we require (Fellaini, Darmian etc) We know that he wants (WANTS) to play attacking football. We should also know, if we step back to think for two seconds, that young players are impressionable and that it is more likely to weigh on them, that insane pressure, of playing for the biggest club in England, which to make matters worse, that club has been struggling for several years. So that it is a huge club with a correspondingly huge expectation – too great for where it is at the moment. Which might make them hesitate, not follow the plan, not manage to attack when Ole wants them to, simply because the pressure gets to them and they start to play like robots.

So that we know, in effect, that he is addressing a lot of the underlying problems – he is trying to put the framework for success in place. As it was with Klopp and Fergie early on, their early work led to a oscillation in results between the sublime and the abysmal – 4 nil win against Chelsea is offset by 1 nil loss against Watford, is succeeded by becoming the only team so far this season to snatch a point or two from title-rushing Liverpool.

He seems to be doing everything right, and yet it takes time. Any place, anywhere you go, if you want to succeed you have to do the basics right. Somehow, for some reason, the success is never instantaneous.

Will he succeed? It's an open question. I think the biggest hurdle are these unmeetable expectations, perpetuated by the not-very-bright. Unfortunately their voices are very loud.

No other manager will come in and do better. Perhaps we could get in a Jose type coach to haul us to 4th or 3rd with the use of mercenaries again. But we will be back in the mire soon – he won't persist as loyally with the youth, who won't get the requisite experience, who won't as a consequence become the backbone of a future title winning side.

Even to get us to the top through the plastic route, by spending, we need a vision, we need a strategy, we need a project. But it seems the money is not there.

So we have to do it the hard way, with our youth – who the feck is better to do it that way than Solskjaer?

They say your Poch will come in and instantly make this group of players better? With Pereira and Lingard in midfield? Hah. Don't make me laugh.

And so you will say, but but, Solskjaer let Lukaku and Herrera go without bringing in replacements? Yes, but he is planning long term, he doesn't want to get in just anybody who will do a job for us two years and feck off to some mid-table club in Spain – he wants future long-serving servants, he wants to build a spine.

He is in a word, trying to institute a project.

But, silly me, I forget – you don't have time for that, do you?

Or rather, you are incapable of catching even the faintest glimpse of what is being done behind the scenes, blinded as you are, by the white gleaming sheen of the scoreboard?

Quick question @WorksforTrystero, why are Manchester United the only big club in the World that need to drop down to midtable in order to fix their problems?

Is that just the United way?

 

[Kajus]

Yes there has to be some valid reason for someone to throw a fit. The problem is that OGS was not given enough money or was not allowed to buy players making the squad weak or he chose to be happy with the weak squad - if it was the first two cases, OGS prioritized his job more than the well being of our club, if it was the third case, OGS was foolish to think our squad was good enough. Whichever way you see, it's a bad look on OGS.

The third case I agree, for the first two I don't however. If the manager comes out and publicly says that he's not happy with the squad, what do you think that would do the squad morale? Imagine being told by your superior that he's looking to replace you, how motivated would you be to give your all to the man? These are young players we're talking about Ole's just trying to make the squad confident. I'd much rather have that than the negativity of Mourinho.

And I'm all for criticising Ole for the things he does wrong - he's no saint. But criticising the man for being too positive in the press is clutching at straws if you ask me.

 

[VP89]

Quick question @WorksforTrystero, why are Manchester United the only big club in the World that need to drop down to midtable in order ti fix their problems?

Is that just the United way?

Some old testament style United fan will come to you and probably quote random shit from Batman as a philosophical answer.

 

[Toni's Left Foot]

I just hope Ole is here long enough to shine a light on as many of our academy/U23 prospects as possible so his inevitable replacement can't ignore them.

I can tolerate a couple of barren years with Ole if we maintain the current trajectory with our youth.

Ole is clearly not our long term solution but he can still play a critical role in laying down the foundations to our future success.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Some old testament style United fan will come to you and probably quote random shit from Batman as a philosophical answer.

Ha ha, true, we are the new Liverpool and this is the new RAWK after all.

 

[Ainu]

Once again fantastic insight, keen and incisive.

Let me guess, you're in the 'sack Ole' camp and hope we replace him with another world class manager like our previous two who won a minor cup each while playing tumescent football and splurging our money on aging, overpriced has-beens?

He's United through and through, we've had some fantastic results under him, a great transfer window with a clear direction and strategy and the only downside to his tenure is we've still got gash in the squad, or no cover in certain positions, leaving us prone to individual errors and slip ups against smaller clubs, especially those who play a low block. Sure you can criticize some of his tactical choices but on the other hand you have to praise the good ones, like tearing apart Chelsea or shutting out the top team in Europe.

Certainly seems like some fans on here are so jaded they can't enjoy the great moments and view every Phil Jones/Pereira/etc brainfart as a nail in Ole's coffin when in reality he's not got any other viable options.

Still yet to see any legitimate criticism of him that isn't about (having) to play Jones/Pereira/Mata/Lingard/Young, a few substitutions that didn't come off, he's too nice in interviews or the tired, constant refrain of 'He's not experienced enough!' despite the very fact that while being our manager that very criticism runs thinner and thinner every month.

Is that a dumb enough post for you mate? Or should he be getting the sack because he doesn't shout at the refs or wave his arms about on the touchline? Up to you mate but your posts are awful.

Why do you just make a load of baseless assumptions and then use them as a platform to rage against them?

 

[shamans]

Sick and tired of these dumb excuses. Football doesn't work that way. You all have bought into this absurd notion of having to finish lower in the league to finish hire.

 

[momo83]

For some people Manchester United is like family. You don't choose your family. If you have a son that's not very bright academically or your sister is the worst player in her team, you don't relentlessly criticise them, insult them, or offer them up for adoption so you can improve the quality of your family. You just support them and try to take pride in their efforts.

If they don't succeed relative to others, fair enough, at least you did you best and there's still good feelings and memories without toxicity.

United have been selling academy players for a 100 years. The league and lower lower league are to this day still filled with players sold by SAF.... why do you think they were sold?

I know your garbage is about Ole. But just showing you that the club doesn’t tolerate “incompetence in the family”

 

[UpWithRivers]

Emotion and sentimentality are nice words but they are misplaced and misused to tug on the heart strings of fans. Would Ole becoming Sir Alex mark 2 be friggin awesome. Of course! Would it be better than a random manager - hell yeah. But so what. I would love Cantona to manage us (my favorite player) and Beckham, Giggs, Scholes et al all to be coaches and in the final game of the season against Liverpool we have a number of injuries and they all play and Sir Alex manages for one game and we beat them 9-0 and win the title.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

During the final days of Jose, if any supporter was asked who they think he should be replaced by, would anyone have chosen Ole? If we're being truthful, I very much doubt it.

So we should support the decision of the incompetent Woodward because Ole was a legendary player for us? He wasn't appointed on the strength of his managerial record, that's for sure.

The excuses that are peddled out for him, the what ifs, he needs time (Rodgers didn't), the ludicrous comparisons to Fergie and Klopp.....it's insane.

 

[Acquire Me]

Good article.

 

[SteveW]

Midtable is the culmination of everything.

You cant claim he got the tactics right when we only have 1 away wins in many games. How can you say he motivates his players when we faildd to win more than we lose.

Facts is we're bad. Anything that tries to say otherwise is opinion.

You can say he has his mitigating factors, that's fair. But we're far from good. Acknowledge that much

I acknowledge that as of now. Put Pogba and Scotty back into the current 11 and i would disagree. Our problem is we have no backup for either. That's the real problem.

 

[SteveW]

It’s too much to ask the Ole Out brigade.
But the three points you listed:
*Signings have been the best we’ve made under any post-Fergie manager
*Tactics are to at least attempt a forward press which we desperately need, playing youth to good effect
*Motivation is hard to determine however the players are still behind him and numerous players have improved under him

This threadbare squad of teenagers finishes mid table under any manager on the planet

That's how i feel as well. It's scapegoating

 

[KekiZeki]

Any decision in life can be considered a gamble. For me, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is the most logical choice and I've been saying it for a lot longer than he's been a manager. We need someone from within the club, and Giggs, sadly, falls from the nbr. 1 choice. I know personal affairs shouldn't affect the managing ability for the club, but his particular situation does, perhaps when enough time passes it will be another story... Gary Neville bombed managerially + he talks too much, not a go to name for me. Ole is the one to give the chance to, and to support. It sadens me to see how little respect some people are showing for one of our own, regardless of the argument if he should be the manager or not, debate about him should be civil. Calling him a clown is always over the line and should be bannable, in my opinion.

 

[Enigma_87]

Once again fantastic insight, keen and incisive.

Let me guess, you're in the 'sack Ole' camp and hope we replace him with another world class manager like our previous two who won a minor cup each while playing tumescent football and splurging our money on aging, overpriced has-beens?

He's United through and through, we've had some fantastic results under him, a great transfer window with a clear direction and strategy and the only downside to his tenure is we've still got gash in the squad, or no cover in certain positions, leaving us prone to individual errors and slip ups against smaller clubs, especially those who play a low block. Sure you can criticize some of his tactical choices but on the other hand you have to praise the good ones, like tearing apart Chelsea or shutting out the top team in Europe.

Certainly seems like some fans on here are so jaded they can't enjoy the great moments and view every Phil Jones/Pereira/etc brainfart as a nail in Ole's coffin when in reality he's not got any other viable options.

Still yet to see any legitimate criticism of him that isn't about (having) to play Jones/Pereira/Mata/Lingard/Young, a few substitutions that didn't come off, he's too nice in interviews or the tired, constant refrain of 'He's not experienced enough!' despite the very fact that while being our manager that very criticism runs thinner and thinner every month.

Is that a dumb enough post for you mate? Or should he be getting the sack because he doesn't shout at the refs or wave his arms about on the touchline? Up to you mate but your posts are awful.

Being United through and through has zero correlation to his abilities as a manager.

Great transfer window leaving us barebones in midfield and attack.

Great results equals 28% win rate since months.

Assuring we have covers in certain positions is down to him in a large extend.

Dire football, dire results, clear to see for everyone, not just United fans.

Spurs sacked their manager who was PL proven and is one of the best they had since decades, because he drove them this season on equal points with us - that should say enough.

Some fans have real small mentality and act as if we are a midtable club.

No rebuild should include the form we are currently on (borderline relegation one) combined with shite on a stick football.

 

[shamans]

"United is like a family", yeah buddy let's see how long this family can sustain itself without success. We're walking towards our demise thinking about the glory days. We have become Liverpool of the past two decades.

 

[SteveW]

I have more or less given up defending OGS on this forum as the responses you get from some people are so toxic. But my decision to back OGS is mainly based on this:

He is thinking about the future - not himself. He is building a foundation with players who are young and talented, either from the youth-team or by signing them. And yes - the chances are it will get him fired because the results of his work will probably first become obvious in 18-24 months when Williams, Garner, Greenwood, James, McTominay, AWB, Tuanzebe etc gets that extra experience to make the right decisions - which means we win matches instead of drawing them.

And the idea of a new manager who pleases our more negative fans scares me - another Mourinho, or LvG a manager who puts himself and immediate trophies ahead of the club.

Is OGS good enough ? We don't know - the only way to know for certain is to give him 12 months - because that is when our players will start to perform to the best of their abilities. But will he be given 12 months ? Who knows.

But what the most negative people in here don't seem to (or want to ) understand is that what happened today would have happened to any manager - because the situation was so awful when OGS took over. At least he managed to prevent all our biggest talent from leaving the club - and adding to them. (Rashford, Martial and DDG).

And whoever takes over if OGS gets fired, will have a very nice squad to build from - unlike the chaos OGS himself had when he took over.

Very good post @lysglimt

 

[shamans]

Any decision in life can be considered a gamble. For me, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is the most logical choice and I've been saying it for a lot longer than he's been a manager. We need someone from within the club, and Giggs, sadly, falls from the nbr. 1 choice. I know personal affairs shouldn't affect the managing ability for the club, but his particular situation does, perhaps when enough time passes it will be another story... Gary Neville bombed managerially + he talks too much, not a go to name for me. Ole is the one to give the chance to, and to support. It sadens me to see how little respect some people are showing for one of our own, regardless of the argument if he should be the manager or not, debate about him should be civil. Calling him a clown is always over the line and should be bannable, in my opinion.

We have become the banter club. Opposition clubs laugh at Ole and his naive tactics. He is out of his depth.

 

[Eriku]

I appreciate the sentimentality but it's best saved for a more deserving manager with the 'United pedigree'. Right now it just comes across as clinging to delusions as bad as anyone thinking Jose could "make United great again" in that failing third season. Also a bit of a close minded stance and hyperbolic about Ole's time here considering there's debate on here about Ronaldo being a United legend.

You seriously doubt Ole being a legend? It’s not all down to ability, you know.

This is because he sold Lukaku and Smalling, both would have qualified as experienced players. He was also partly responsible for losing Herrera as well, another experienced player. Stop complaining if you consistently lose the plot.

Ole partly responsible for losing Herrera? Someone’s not been paying attention.

 

[SteveW]

A big portion of the support is unfortunately not very bright. The same people who are shouting Ole out at the top of their breaths are the same people who rage in the match day forum whenever Rashford's (our best club-produced prospect since I don't know, fecking Giggs or something) touch goes bad. It is not that they don't understand how football works, they don't understand how the world works. They are more likely to use caps lock and simple language when they write, because they know deep down that their arguments count for nothing – unfortunately this makes them appear louder, and also, perhaps more powerful than those who try to remain reasonable.

Disregard the fact that Ed's words ring true when he says it seems Ole has instigated a discipline that his predecessors declined or were unable to do. That he is diligent and demands everything that they have to give from the players. We know that he gives them bollockings despite his mild-seeming demeanor. We know that he promotes youth. We know that he is trying to get rid of a lot of the players that has been widely agreed to not meet the standard that we require (Fellaini, Darmian etc) We know that he wants (WANTS) to play attacking football. We should also know, if we step back to think for two seconds, that young players are impressionable and that it is more likely to weigh on them, that insane pressure, of playing for the biggest club in England, which to make matters worse, that club has been struggling for several years. So that it is a huge club with a correspondingly huge expectation – too great for where it is at the moment. Which might make them hesitate, not follow the plan, not manage to attack when Ole wants them to, simply because the pressure gets to them and they start to play like robots.

So that we know, in effect, that he is addressing a lot of the underlying problems – he is trying to put the framework for success in place. As it was with Klopp and Fergie early on, their early work led to a oscillation in results between the sublime and the abysmal – 4 nil win against Chelsea is offset by 1 nil loss against Watford, is succeeded by becoming the only team so far this season to snatch a point or two from title-rushing Liverpool.

He seems to be doing everything right, and yet it takes time. Any place, anywhere you go, if you want to succeed you have to do the basics right. Somehow, for some reason, the success is never instantaneous.

Will he succeed? It's an open question. I think the biggest hurdle are these unmeetable expectations, perpetuated by the not-very-bright. Unfortunately their voices are very loud.

No other manager will come in and do better. Perhaps we could get in a Jose type coach to haul us to 4th or 3rd with the use of mercenaries again. But we will be back in the mire soon – he won't persist as loyally with the youth, who won't get the requisite experience, who won't as a consequence become the backbone of a future title winning side.

Even to get us to the top through the plastic route, by spending, we need a vision, we need a strategy, we need a project. But it seems the money is not there.

So we have to do it the hard way, with our youth – who the feck is better to do it that way than Solskjaer?

They say your Poch will come in and instantly make this group of players better? With Pereira and Lingard in midfield? Hah. Don't make me laugh.

And so you will say, but but, Solskjaer let Lukaku and Herrera go without bringing in replacements? Yes, but he is planning long term, he doesn't want to get in just anybody who will do a job for us two years and feck off to some mid-table club in Spain – he wants future long-serving servants, he wants to build a spine.

He is in a word, trying to institute a project.

But, silly me, I forget – you don't have time for that, do you?

Or rather, you are incapable of catching even the faintest glimpse of what is being done behind the scenes, blinded as you are, by the white gleaming sheen of the scoreboard?

Good post.

 

[Enigma_87]

It’s too much to ask the Ole Out brigade.
But the three points you listed:
*Signings have been the best we’ve made under any post-Fergie manager
*Tactics are to at least attempt a forward press which we desperately need, playing youth to good effect
*Motivation is hard to determine however the players are still behind him and numerous players have improved under him

This threadbare squad of teenagers finishes mid table under any manager on the planet

- signings - this has been commented for numerous times. He strengthened 2 areas on the pitch and left us barebones in others - this is not how you conduct good transfer business. The jury is still out on players like Maguire who we paid over the top. James was low risk Giggs recommendation, yet again seems like is made out to be a master stroke for Ole. If you give him credit for signing some key players you have to criticize him for not strengthening midfield and attack. When the squad is in worse shape than last year and he oversaw 2 transfer windows, whose fault it is?

- 28% win rate since March. Games where we didn't have shot on target. Playing youth because of transfer dealings and not enough cover in certain areas.

- Why wouldn't they be? A manager with high demands will ask a lot more of players like Jones and Lingard. They are getting free pass and collecting fat paychecks. Players like Lingard, Jones, Mata, etc got multiple years of new deals under Ole.

So you praise him for transfer dealings yet completely absolve him of any fault for the threadbare squad? Seriously?

 

[SteveW]

A good result is having 30% possession in a home draw to Liverpool. Standards really have gone through the floor.

Pretty sure the result was 1-1. Due to Rojo and Young fecking up.