Ilkay Gündogan

JB08

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I remember when many on here (myself included) didn't want to sign him from Dortmund because there was a picture where you could see the size of his belly :lol:
 

Zehner

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Very happy for him. I had written him off to be honest, thought the injuries would have lowered his ceiling significantly but he's arguably playing even better now than he did for Klopp. Great to see, hope he keeps this form up.
 

hasanejaz88

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No Kroos?
Oh bugger yea, forgot him :lol:

Would be interesting to see which 3 Low goes with, Kroos is the most immobile of the options. While he is the most technically proficient, you need to have pieces around him to being support defensively, and offensively. Gundogan is in great goalscoring form and therefore can prevent the midfield from being too offensively passive, which has been the case in the past.

Trust Low to go with Gundogan, Kroos and Kimmich though and make Germany play at a snails pace.
 

2mufc0

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He is playing like David Silva did imo. Midfielder who would constantly attack the half spaces and get into dangerous positions again and again. He is imo the first player in their team since Silva who managed to do this really well, I thought Foden would be nailed on to be that guy but kudos to Gündogan for making this role his own and probably playing the best season of his life.
Silva was great at finding space but he never played this forward (Aguero normally occupied that space). Plus Silva never scored as prolifically as Gundogan has this season and its not even over. We are just over half way through and he's almost matched Silva's best goal scoring season.
 

BayernFan87

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I said a while back, when he had 1 year left on his contract, that we should sign him and play him with Pogba and Matic (or another DM) as I thought it would free Pogba from the deep playmaking role and play further forward. He was underrated back when City had their 100 point season (when De Bruyne was injured for most of it and Gundogan filled in) and I think it was then that he was negotiating a contract renewal. Would have been relatively cheap as well.

That being said, we now have Bruno :D As a German fan it's good to see Gundogan doing well, can only bode well for the upcoming Euros. A midfield three of Kimmich-Goretzka-Gundogan can be pretty potent in terms on the offensive and defensive end.
I mean... I would hope so, but do you really think Jogi will bench Kroos?

Regarding Gündogan: He really seems to be in the form of his life. There was a report in German media several weeks ago that stated that he changed his diet (don't know how exactly) and now sleeps multiple times a day for a few hours (like Ronaldo and Haaland). Maybe this is part of the reason for his performances?
 

Rektsanwalt

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A Schalke fan bigging up an ex Dortmund player. That's a new low even for Bundesliga posters on here
You don't get it.

A german poster with napoleon complex, exactly what we needed.
I really don't think so. Following the Thiago thread, it's just amusing to see some parallels between him and Gündogan. It shows how many people judge far too early and how some need more time than others despite being great players, even when they're not performing well. Also, since the general notion on here is that Bundesliga players are destined to fail in the EPL, for example:

I'm trying to think of outfield player hits. I'm sure there are some but none that I can just think of immediately.
stuff said like this feels very delusional from the point of view of someone like me, who really isn't too keen on Dortmund. I mean, considering the amount of hate fans from a club of the Bundesliga and the Bundesliga itself gets, it's quite surprising to see as many posters still being active on here. I personally think it's hate for the Sancho saga and hate for Germany/Germans in general. Definitely irrational stuff being posted here, though considering some transfers. I'd say that De Bruyne, Pulisic, Aubameyang, Keita, Sane, Firmino, Dzeko, Son, Gündogan, even players like Matip or Fuchs could be called failures. If anything, some of these players will be contenders for an EPL top 10. That has nothing to do with some kind of a complex I have, it's just very irritating to be on the receiving end of so much irrational hate.
 

simmee

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You don't get it.



I really don't think so. Following the Thiago thread, it's just amusing to see some parallels between him and Gündogan. It shows how many people judge far too early and how some need more time than others despite being great players, even when they're not performing well. Also, since the general notion on here is that Bundesliga players are destined to fail in the EPL, for example:



stuff said like this feels very delusional from the point of view of someone like me, who really isn't too keen on Dortmund. I mean, considering the amount of hate fans from a club of the Bundesliga and the Bundesliga itself gets, it's quite surprising to see as many posters still being active on here. I personally think it's hate for the Sancho saga and hate for Germany/Germans in general. Definitely irrational stuff being posted here, though considering some transfers. I'd say that De Bruyne, Pulisic, Aubameyang, Keita, Sane, Firmino, Dzeko, Son, Gündogan, even players like Matip or Fuchs could be called failures. If anything, some of these players will be contenders for an EPL top 10. That has nothing to do with some kind of a complex I have, it's just very irritating to be on the receiving end of so much irrational hate.
"Far too early" Mate, it's his fifth season. Obviously injuries have played their part but this is his first long spell of top class football at City.
 

Rektsanwalt

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"Far too early" Mate, it's his fifth season. Obviously injuries have played their part but this is his first long spell of top class football at City.
Fifth season is definitely worrying very true (although I'd say that even before 20/21 he was quite a good player for the best PL side in the last 5 years!) and still: He's a success. Being a vital part in a league winning side (most likely) is a great achievement, no? Especially in the most competetive leauge in the world, I'd say. Can't have it both ways.
But I said it in a more general meaning and considering the context, I thought it's very obvious what I meant, hombre. People being very fast with their judging is quite common, not just in football, and very often people judge a trend and not what lies behind a trend.
 

sullydnl

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Top player yes, but this is clearly a purple patch.
It might be to a degree but statistically it looks largely sustainable.

Over the last 6 matches he has the highest xG of anyone in the league. And if you strip away penalties, he's still third in the league. He's overperformed his xG by about two goals in that period but that still leaves you with an impressive 4+ expected goals in the last six matches. And if you stretch it back to GW13 (when his goalscoring began) he's top for xG and non-penalty xG, expected to score just under 7 goals in those 12 GWs.

And you expect overperformance from better finishers, which Gundogan appears to be. There's an interview with Pep from two years ago where he describes Gundogan as having a Scholes-like ability in the box, so it's not like this has come entirely out of the blue. It's just that he hasn't been used in this role for City before now.

Basically the key difference is his role changing. If he stays in that role then he'll keep on scoring goals, as he's getting a lot of opportunity to do so.
 

adexkola

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Must be said that this isn't the first time Gundogan has had a run of great form for City. In the run-in 2 seasons ago he was fantastic as a holding midfielder.

Side note, as good as Foden has been this season, Guardiola is continually pushing him to pick up the skillset necessary to perform the Silva role that Gundogan has picked up excellently this season.
 

padr81

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You don't rate Son?
I knew Son wouldn't keep it up once Jose got closer to losing it. Son will finish the season with less than 20 goals imho. He's on 13 now. Which of course is not terrible at all but Kane will score over 20 and have 15 or so asssists. Bruno will have over 25 goal contributions combined. Salah will score well over 25 and Gundogan is the man who like Mane last season around game week 20-25 has decided the title race. KDB because well he's KDB. If there is an argument for Son theres an argument for Bamford, Vardy and DCL imho. All 3 teams are currently out performing Spurs (relative to their expectations of course)
 

padr81

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It might be to a degree but statistically it looks largely sustainable.

Over the last 6 matches he has the highest xG of anyone in the league. And if you strip away penalties, he's still third in the league. He's overperformed his xG by about two goals in that period but that still leaves you with an impressive 4+ expected goals in the last six matches. And if you stretch it back to GW13 (when his goalscoring began) he's top for xG and non-penalty xG, expected to score just under 7 goals in those 12 GWs.

And you expect overperformance from better finishers, which Gundogan appears to be. There's an interview with Pep from two years ago where he describes Gundogan as having a Scholes-like ability in the box, so it's not like this has come entirely out of the blue. It's just that he hasn't been used in this role for City before now.

Basically the key difference is his role changing. If he stays in that role then he'll keep on scoring goals, as he's getting a lot of opportunity to do so.
Absolutely, Jamie Carragher made a good point that Cancelo getting in the team has freed Gundogan. Cancelo and Bernardo can now fill the midfield spots which means Gundo can push on into that 8.5 role that Scholes used to score so many from. Basically he hits the area's David Silva used to hit but Gundo is a far better finisher and calmer head in front of goal (sadly worse player, which is no slight)
 

Icemav

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Really wanted us to sign him way back when but then the injuries came. What a player though.
 

padr81

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Bruno has had a better season.
Fernandes has not done it in the big games though which could be telling against him. Gundogan has scored 2 v Spurs, 2 v Liverpool, 1 vs Chelsea in 3 key wins that fired City to within touching distance of the title.

Bruno has offered little in big games for the most part. Not saying he shouldn't be in the running he's been magnificent and if he won it would be hard to argue against but its looking like Ilkay Gundogan has decided the title race.
I'd have voted Mane over KDB last season for the same reason, Bernardo over VVD the season before and KDB over Salah the season before that. They were the crucial cogs in separating their team from the other in terms of silverware so the most decisive players over the league season.
 

Noot

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You don't get it.



I really don't think so. Following the Thiago thread, it's just amusing to see some parallels between him and Gündogan. It shows how many people judge far too early and how some need more time than others despite being great players, even when they're not performing well. Also, since the general notion on here is that Bundesliga players are destined to fail in the EPL, for example:



stuff said like this feels very delusional from the point of view of someone like me, who really isn't too keen on Dortmund. I mean, considering the amount of hate fans from a club of the Bundesliga and the Bundesliga itself gets, it's quite surprising to see as many posters still being active on here. I personally think it's hate for the Sancho saga and hate for Germany/Germans in general. Definitely irrational stuff being posted here, though considering some transfers. I'd say that De Bruyne, Pulisic, Aubameyang, Keita, Sane, Firmino, Dzeko, Son, Gündogan, even players like Matip or Fuchs could be called failures. If anything, some of these players will be contenders for an EPL top 10. That has nothing to do with some kind of a complex I have, it's just very irritating to be on the receiving end of so much irrational hate.
Nitpick but Keita has flopped hard. He was sold to us as coming in and automatically being one of the best midfielders in the league, he's barely a top ten midfielder in the city of Liverpool.
 

Zen

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Fernandes has not done it in the big games though which could be telling against him. Gundogan has scored 2 v Spurs, 2 v Liverpool, 1 vs Chelsea in 3 key wins that fired City to within touching distance of the title.

Bruno has offered little in big games for the most part. Not saying he shouldn't be in the running he's been magnificent and if he won it would be hard to argue against but its looking like Ilkay Gundogan has decided the title race.
I'd have voted Mane over KDB last season for the same reason, Bernardo over VVD the season before and KDB over Salah the season before that. They were the crucial cogs in separating their team from the other in terms of silverware so the most decisive players over the league season.
A season isn't just "big games".... Bruno's contribution is worth a whopping 20 points directly, Gundy's..... guess what, 3 points. I know it's not a be all end all thing and stuff, but it's very telling. Obviously he can continue the run and that'd be dandy for his chances of winning.... but if voting ended now, it'd be daylight robbery.

You'd have a fair few split votes on City's player of the season so far - forget him winning over Bruno, or well, Graelish. City are flying as a team and could cope with any loss as they are proving anyway.... Utd without Bruno would be Spurs without Kane I'd hazard to guess.
 

padr81

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A season isn't just "big games".... Bruno's contribution is worth a whopping 20 points directly, Gundy's..... guess what, 3 points. I know it's not a be all end all thing and stuff, but it's very telling. Obviously he can continue the run and that'd be dandy for his chances of winning.... but if voting ended now, it'd be daylight robbery.

You'd have a fair few split votes on City's player of the season so far - forget him winning over Bruno, or well, Graelish. City are flying as a team and could cope with any loss as they are proving anyway.... Utd without Bruno would be Spurs without Kane I'd hazard to guess.
He has got the goals to put Liverpool away, the goal that broke Chelsea plus won the peno and scored the goals that put Spurs away so I dunno where the 3 points thing comes from. Would we have went on and scored the others without him contributions vs those teams who knows?

Brunos been phenomenal for what its worth outside the big games and it wouldn't be a crime for him to win it, nor would it be a crime for him not to.

It wouldn't be a robbery at all and he was also very good in his box to box role this season before the goals, just playing a different role.

Goals per minute played in the PL this season.
Gundogan 1 every 125 minutes, Bruno 1 every 144 minutes.

Goals this season:
Gunodgan 11 in 18 appearances, Bruno 14 in 24 appearances.

Goals from open play.
Gundogan 10 in 18 appearances, ,Bruno 8 in 24 appearances.

Including assists, Bruno checks in with a goal or assist every 93 minutes which is hugely impressive. Gundogan less often at 135 minutes.

But the real stat for Gundogan to be in with a shot is.

City (likely title winners) this season.
With Gundogan - P18 W15 D3 L0 - 48/54 pts -- 2.66 points per game.
W/O Gundogan - P05 W01 D2 L2 - 05/15 pts --- 1 point per game

He's worth 1.66 points per game to what many people see as the champions elect (though not I) this season...
 

SqualorVictoria

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A season isn't just "big games".... Bruno's contribution is worth a whopping 20 points directly, Gundy's..... guess what, 3 points.
How on earth did you calculate this? Against West Bromwich alone (1-1 and 0-5), he scored City's first goals, which would make it 4. Unless you aren't counting in wins by more than one goal, which I guess suits your point more.
 

Noot

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Reading the Gundogan vs Bruno for PoTY debate above, I think most City fans would actually give it to Ruben Dias if the season ended today. We categorically wouldn't be in this title race at all without him. Gundogan emerged over the last 12 matches but didn't do a lot for the first part of the season.
 

FrankDrebin

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Bruno's allround game has actually been pretty fine in the big match-ups for us.
I guess if he isn't on the scoresheet or assisting the usual summation of his performance = useless
 

Cornish

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It'll be interesting to see if he carries on playing like he has been when De Bruyne is back as the positions he is getting into are similar to where De Bruyne likes to play
 

Zen

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How on earth did you calculate this? Against West Bromwich alone (1-1 and 0-5), he scored City's first goals, which would make it 4. Unless you aren't counting in wins by more than one goal, which I guess suits your point more.
Well yes, that's how it's done. But even vs WBA with your way, it's 3, not 4. 1pt gained on the draw, 2 for the win.... but let's be real, they were smashing WBA the second time either way.

He's obviously worth more than 3pts, but it's just rough thing to put forward Bruno's immense importance to United over Ilkay's to City. I'm not using it say Bruno is 7 times the player, because he's clearly not. I'd say City would still be top without Ilkay(KDB and Aguero!), United would on the fringes battling for fourth. As mentioned above, the Dias-Stones connection is massive for City.

Bruno basically has Shaw performing to a high level consistently, Graelish has the arguable goalie of the year, Ilkay has CB pairing of the season by a landslide, Cancelo, the likely YPOTY, and all but about 5 weeks of the best player in the league around him, oh and the best coach in the league.
 

2mufc0

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Crazy thing to say but city look worse since KDB came back and also results in Gundo playing deeper and losing his goal threat.
 

padr81

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Back to back potm awards as his team went from 8th to 11 points clear. I had the dude completely written off start of the season after the last couple. Congrats Ilkay, made me eat my words.
 

padr81

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Pep playing him at DM for 3 years conned everyone into thinking he was shit.
Conned me for sure.

He's much better playing with Bernardo as an 8 than playing with kdb, likely because we're more patient on the ball and he can time his runs.
 
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Conned me for sure.

He's much better playing with Bernardo as an 8 than playing with kdb, likely because we're more patient on the ball and he can time his runs.
I sit next to a City fan at work, obviously not seen him for a while due to covid but a good lad to be fair to him, we regularly argued about two of your players though - Gundogan & Mahrez. He thought they were shit. He once told me he’d happily swap them for McTominay & Lingard, which honestly took me aback. I just figured maybe because he watched City more closely than me that maybe he was right, but they still both look class to me. Always did. Especially Mahrez.
 

padr81

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I sit next to a City fan at work, obviously not seen him for a while due to covid but a good lad to be fair to him, we regularly argued about two of your players though - Gundogan & Mahrez. He thought they were shit. He once told me he’d happily swap them for McTominay & Lingard, which honestly took me aback.
12 months ago so would I. Not lingard for mahrez though I would have been happy to move him on but mct for gundogan in a heartbeat, gundogan looked terrified of putting his foot in.

I was down for selling gundo, rodri, cancelo, mahrez and stones. They'll probably all make tots just to make me look a bigger tit.