Please ask yourself why are you wanting fellow United fans to feel zero pleasure when we win games because they had the temerity to question the direction we were going during our worst ever PL season. Fair play to you for having no time for 'fans' who gave Ole personal abuse and had literally nothing positive to say win, lose or draw this season, but can you not see you're still a rat upon the same wheel they're on if you're wishing discomfort on fans like @Massive Spanner who happen to be on the other side of a rationally-held debate?
I'm sorry Ole
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Great post.
Some of the vitriol and bitterness by fans who you'd think would be happy is incredible.
It's posts like that that basically show you the poster isn't happy about any progress Utd are making, but rather the simple fact of being temporarily 'right' on an internet forum.
Glad to see fans finally giving Ole some credit.
We still have faults as team, our passing and movement is still pretty average but you can see signs of improvement.
Ole had a job of completely transforming the squad, literally an overhaul which is still on-going. It was clear from day one we needed stability, a vision and probably 3 to 4 windows to get even close to where we wanna be. Not only that, Ole also has to change the mentality and workrate of the squad and still maintain consistent results while relying on youth to step up. Its a challenging role. If anyone thought we would just start playing perfect football with the intensity required on a consistent basis from the off need to be more realistic for me.
We have had some awful results, and some even worse performances but we are moving forward with the plan. I've always said going gung ho and shocking Ole after like 2 bad results would set us back another year. We need stability and to follow the same route with the same coaches/recruitment plan (both incomings and outgoings) and we will start to see results.
I cant wait for the summer window, with another potentially 3 or maybe 4 signings coming in a few more out we will be looking even better.
The Fernandes signing has been brilliant. He's changed our season and lifted the performances of others. Superb
We still have faults as team, our passing and movement is still pretty average but you can see signs of improvement.
Ole had a job of completely transforming the squad, literally an overhaul which is still on-going. It was clear from day one we needed stability, a vision and probably 3 to 4 windows to get even close to where we wanna be. Not only that, Ole also has to change the mentality and workrate of the squad and still maintain consistent results while relying on youth to step up. Its a challenging role. If anyone thought we would just start playing perfect football with the intensity required on a consistent basis from the off need to be more realistic for me.
We have had some awful results, and some even worse performances but we are moving forward with the plan. I've always said going gung ho and shocking Ole after like 2 bad results would set us back another year. We need stability and to follow the same route with the same coaches/recruitment plan (both incomings and outgoings) and we will start to see results.
I cant wait for the summer window, with another potentially 3 or maybe 4 signings coming in a few more out we will be looking even better.
The Fernandes signing has been brilliant. He's changed our season and lifted the performances of others. Superb
Somehow I don’t think any fan is going to get zero pleasure in seeing us winning. It’s a laughable suggestion. Basking in reflected glory is what most fans do and no one is really going to take that away from them.
Can understand people having doubts about Ole and questioning if he's the right man to win us a title. Cannot understand those who still want him sacked before the end of the season and those who call him a 'Gollum faced prick' or 'worst manager in the league'.
I've never waivered from being Ole in until at least the end of the season and that's because I felt I understood exactly what he's had to do. I had absolutely no expectations that we would be a top 4 team this season once we got rid of so many players and only brought 2 proper first team players in and one gamble player. I adjusted this even further when Pogba got injured after 3 games. This wasn't me lowering my general expectations for Manchester United in the long term, this was me understanding that I could not expect consistent results with the squad we started the season with.
Even if Ole isn't here beyond the end of next season (and for me he deserves at least one more full season) then whoever comes in next is going to be taking over a club which has been massively turned around behind the scenes thanks to his and his coaches and his players' hard work this season.
I've never waivered from being Ole in until at least the end of the season and that's because I felt I understood exactly what he's had to do. I had absolutely no expectations that we would be a top 4 team this season once we got rid of so many players and only brought 2 proper first team players in and one gamble player. I adjusted this even further when Pogba got injured after 3 games. This wasn't me lowering my general expectations for Manchester United in the long term, this was me understanding that I could not expect consistent results with the squad we started the season with.
Even if Ole isn't here beyond the end of next season (and for me he deserves at least one more full season) then whoever comes in next is going to be taking over a club which has been massively turned around behind the scenes thanks to his and his coaches and his players' hard work this season.
I am more than happy. When McTominay scored the winner yesterday I ended up on the floor two rows in front. By far the most fun I've had at a game in recent memory. I am enjoying watching us recently as much as I have at any time since Sir Alex retired.
The thing is... I don't even claim to be temporarily right. I don't know if Ole will take us as far as we need to go or not... but I don't spend my time claiming to be right. Claiming that Ole is a useless manager. Claiming that fans who show any positivity about this team and manager are deluded. These fans have made this forum pretty toxic this season and they deserve to be called out for it.
Problem is, when fans were claiming he wasn't good enough - he wasn't good enough!
Now lots are wading in and emphatically claiming 'he is good enough, told you so', and my point is simply - ok, time will tell.
He's obviously earned next season, and no matter whether you're Ole in or out, it has to be admitted that the standards for him, given the money spent, are very low.
For me, I'll enjoy the highs his brand of footy brings, and I'll see where we are next Christmas.
What I won't do though, is pretend that this group of players shouldn't be above Foxes or a Chelsea side that haven't been allowed to sign anyone and lost their best player.
In short - Ole has earned next season, but Ole has also under-achieved this season overall (thus far).
Hear hear..
Lots has changed over the past few months.
We overcome the Wolves bogey team thing.
We've beat City three times, home and away.
We've beaten Chelsea home and away.
We matched a Liverpool team in cruise control.
Luke Shaw is playing his best football since we bought him.
Matic is playing his best football in about 3 years.
Fred is becoming a consistent top performer.
9 clean sheets in 12. or 8 in 10 except for two howlers from the GK's.
All of our signings are performing, and slowly improving their weaknesses.
The players and fans seem happy and enjoy our games for the first time in 5 + years.
Lingard and Pereira only feature in cup games against weak opposition as they should.
And we have two of our biggest players out.
I don't care what any one says, I'm enjoying being a United fan and actually liking the players.
I'd be more worried bringing in another manager now and ruining all that, than I would about whether Ole is the best man for the job.
We overcome the Wolves bogey team thing.
We've beat City three times, home and away.
We've beaten Chelsea home and away.
We matched a Liverpool team in cruise control.
Luke Shaw is playing his best football since we bought him.
Matic is playing his best football in about 3 years.
Fred is becoming a consistent top performer.
9 clean sheets in 12. or 8 in 10 except for two howlers from the GK's.
All of our signings are performing, and slowly improving their weaknesses.
The players and fans seem happy and enjoy our games for the first time in 5 + years.
Lingard and Pereira only feature in cup games against weak opposition as they should.
And we have two of our biggest players out.
I don't care what any one says, I'm enjoying being a United fan and actually liking the players.
I'd be more worried bringing in another manager now and ruining all that, than I would about whether Ole is the best man for the job.
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Results maybe weren't good enough for where we want to be, but why was Ole not good enough? Were the injuries to key players down to Ole being not good enough at the job? Was he actually wrong to sell so many players last summer, as many claimed, or was it a sensible long term plan that we are now seeing the fruits of?
You say "ok, time will tell", but that was always the case. It's ridiculous that people are only finally coming round to the idea that "give him time" might be a more sensible option than "sack him immediately".
Pochettino is defensive
. You must be the biggest troll on Redcafe or don’t know much about football. We have experts who have analyzed the deference between Spurs now and before under Poch and it is clear that he is an attacking coach. Won’t take any of your post seriously after that statement. Moreover, Ole similar to Klopp??? I wish that but we can’t put the type of football that Liverpool player under this manager as he is reactive.nope. Poch has an Average squad which is showcase by their struggles now.
be right back to answer the rest
For the first time since Fergie retired I feel like I'm watching United again. I always backed ole to have at least one full season and I'm so glad we're starting to turn the corner and everyone s getting behind our United legend. Looking forward to every united game at the mo. God bless you Ole Now let's stay united and kick on.
United finishing a season strongly? I have witnessed this before..
Only if he had Pogba fit and now Rashford available. Mere addition of Bruno and Ighalo raised our level a bit. Not there yet but at least we aint clueless like before.
Only if he had Pogba fit and now Rashford available. Mere addition of Bruno and Ighalo raised our level a bit. Not there yet but at least we aint clueless like before.
Not hard to be more attacking than a Jose Mourinho team now is it.
With the lows we've had, the highs just feel so much better. I haven't celebrated a goal like McTominay's in a long time, probably up there with Rashford's pen against PSG in terms of post Fergie 'moments'.
We've had so many false dawns, and to be honest I don't know what's going to happen, but this time feels different. For the first time in years, I feel like I'm watching a team with spirit, belief and players with some pride while wearing the shirt. I feel like we've suffered from a severe lack of depth and quality this season, having to suffer through Lingard and Pereira, but I haven't doubted our application all season.
Now I feel like like we're bringing quality in to match the workrate. Bruno and Ighalo have been huge for us. This run of 10 unbeaten, with 8 clean sheets, feels different from the first 11 when Ole came in. I was always felt last year like I was waiting for the bubble to burst, but now I'm expecting us to go from strength to strength.
I could be wrong, I really hope I'm not, but for the first time in a long time, I feel truly positive about a United team again. We've desperately been lacking direction, and finally I can see what we're trying to achieve.
We've had so many false dawns, and to be honest I don't know what's going to happen, but this time feels different. For the first time in years, I feel like I'm watching a team with spirit, belief and players with some pride while wearing the shirt. I feel like we've suffered from a severe lack of depth and quality this season, having to suffer through Lingard and Pereira, but I haven't doubted our application all season.
Now I feel like like we're bringing quality in to match the workrate. Bruno and Ighalo have been huge for us. This run of 10 unbeaten, with 8 clean sheets, feels different from the first 11 when Ole came in. I was always felt last year like I was waiting for the bubble to burst, but now I'm expecting us to go from strength to strength.
I could be wrong, I really hope I'm not, but for the first time in a long time, I feel truly positive about a United team again. We've desperately been lacking direction, and finally I can see what we're trying to achieve.
You are funny too... but I think your way of understanding football must be even worst than what I thought. But yeah, Pochettino is a copy of Bielsa, and it’s very much pressing and a lot of defensive work.Pochettino is defensive
nope. Poch has an Average squad which is showcase by their struggles now.
be right back to answer the rest
And yes, Ole has the ability to try different style as proven by what he did at Molde. He won the league with possession and then switched to counter pressing and direct football when he started losing key players. Just stop mate. Your workshop of Poch is getting ridiculous. Feel free to workshop but do not spit nonsense as if he would be better than Ole, or if you can’t see that Ole counter press and use of full backs to compensate the lack of creativity we had for a period is similar to what Klopp did.
Excuse my words. But that’s absolute nonsense. And you can check from my post history. As well as my twitter posts if you care to check. But and I believe many others have never doubted him even for a second. I always looked at the situation we were in whiles having bad results. And that’s how come I never doubted him. Because whenever we seemed to have a full squad that’s fit he always performed. All he needed was a good squad with a bit of depth like any other coach
Dropping Andreas and Jesse is a major cause of concern since there both only kids. They could reach the potential of Zidane and Scholes. Definitely should be playing every game. Now we have Bruno there FFS.
On a serious note no manager could of doing anything playing Andreas and Jesse and the amount of injuries we had in midfield this season. There both Championship players and looks like Ole has had enough of the two not evening making the match squad against City. Bruno has had the Cantona effect and looks to be absolutely world class. The future is looking bright.
I was slating Ole and AWB all season but I'll hold my hands up, even without champions league qualification we are building something here. Two or three smart signings in the Summer and could be up challenging for the league.
I will get a tatoo of Sancho if we sign him.
On a serious note no manager could of doing anything playing Andreas and Jesse and the amount of injuries we had in midfield this season. There both Championship players and looks like Ole has had enough of the two not evening making the match squad against City. Bruno has had the Cantona effect and looks to be absolutely world class. The future is looking bright.
I was slating Ole and AWB all season but I'll hold my hands up, even without champions league qualification we are building something here. Two or three smart signings in the Summer and could be up challenging for the league.
I will get a tatoo of Sancho if we sign him.
Problem with the Out Brigade is that they seem to live in the past. Wanting the standards and achievements to be matched against their best memories of peak Fergie. Memories has a strange way of sanitising the crap performances under Fergie too.
They also never seem to understand that we had both crap and thin squad after the culling. You can compare and hope all you want, a 5-foot tall guy won't be able to dunk a basketball regardless.
If you want to live in reality, all teams take multiple windows to build. The fact that everyone that Ole has brought in has been relatively successful indicates that he knows exactly what he wants and is looking for.
There will always be multiple false dawns. I have worked both in global MNCs and nowadays startups. If you are building up something from scratch, there will always be plenty of false dawns, pivots and situations that can cause you startup to fail -- unlike in the large corporations. United was a decline 'corporation' and one that needed to be creatively re-engineered/re-built.
We need to get back to that stage of a steady ship. But that takes years. And its clear that what Ole did over the summer was this creative destruction/regeneration of United. When he was talking about going back to our 'DNA' you knew then he was talking about rebuild from the core. Highly ambitious but as a ex-United player, no-one would know what that would mean better than Ole.
The danger ahead is that if we spend big next summer, our expectations will be dispositional to the investments. If we are world beaters by next December, many will be asking for Ole's sacking. We are two summers away from challenging the scousers.
Having the right FM players bought in won't be enough. We do need to win some silverware along the way to build that confidence and arrogance within the squad before we challenge for the league consistently.
Meanwhile what we can do as fans are to enjoy the small victories.
“It's the not the Destination, It's the journey.”
I'm Sorry Ole,
I never meant to hurt you,
I never meant to make you cry,
But tonight Bruno has City in his pocket.
I never meant to hurt you,
I never meant to make you cry,
But tonight Bruno has City in his pocket.
You do know this place doesn't forget that kind of sentences, right? We will want a picture proof, a video proof, everything!
Ole seems like a good man manager, you gotta give him that. He does seem to be able to get the best out of his players.
Some players like Fred and Shaw were written off by most but thanks to Ole at least in part they are doing very well now. He stuck with them, showed faith in them and theyre performing well.
Next thing, I reallly do hope AWB will keep improving as a full back and I hope Baily can sorta do a Fred and turn it around, become world class.
Some players like Fred and Shaw were written off by most but thanks to Ole at least in part they are doing very well now. He stuck with them, showed faith in them and theyre performing well.
Next thing, I reallly do hope AWB will keep improving as a full back and I hope Baily can sorta do a Fred and turn it around, become world class.
I'm not convinced that he's an excellent manager and hence good enough for Manchester United. But the recent run has been really good. Hope it continues. I think in the league it's just been 3 good results as before that we had a poor start to 2020 (?).
Depends if "all that" is sustainable and a genuine show of proper progress, or just a decent run, the likes of which we've seen under LvG and Mourinho as well, before returning to mediocrity. Can Ole finally turn us into a quality football one - that visibly appears to excellently coached? As that has not been the case for most of his time at United and hence a majority considering him to not be good enough.
If you know anything about Bielsa style, which Pochettino remolded at Spurs, you would understand that there is an emphasis on playing the match in the attacking third that sees his team win the ball back as quickly as possible. Pep, praised Pochettino for such an attacking philosophy while he was at Espanyol and that philosophy has been brought over with him to England where his team was the best at high pressing and attacking in the final third during his early spells where he had a young dynamic team. Pochettino also utilize maurading fullback, emphasized controlled possession and vertical football. Pep, Rodgers, Klopp, Sampaoli, and Pochettino are undisputed king of the pressing game and have the word “press with intensity in their playing style.” For you to say he is a defensive coach is still making me laugh and tells me you are just trolling.
What Ole did at Molde is irrelevant to what he has done already in the premier league. Using his time at Molde rather than his time at Cardiff or at United where he has broken a lot of negative records shows desperation on your half. And Pochettino will definitely do better because at the moment, Ole isn’t doing better than Mourinho or Van Gaal at United. Whereas, I believe he is also doing as bad as Moyes. That might have changed because of recent result though.
There is of course context. Klopp at Dortmund, where he had some success and SAF at United where he made a lot of shrewd transfer purchase, and rarely competed financial against other top club in Europe later in his career, e.g., in the time of glazers arrivals. (I can’t remember the exact time frame, but if you are a true United fan, you would remember the period where we looked at bargain purchase, yet we were still successful). Yes because Ole always adopt a high press /sarcasm. It is not even proper high pressing compared to the likes of Klopp, Poch or Pep. Against top club, Ole adopts low press similar to Mourinho and get them on the counter. Ole used high pressing not to gain control of the game, but to catch opponents in a mistake and counter. It is all reactive like Mourinho.
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Some people wanting rid of Ole have behaved badly on this forum recently, but then in this thread people supporting Ole have acted just as badly. The Ole in brigade thread was atrocious, these are some examples from just one random page in January.
The levels of toxicity have been unreal.
The thing is that I can't see the players, the media, and other figures inside the club turning on Ole. He just get it. Every time Van Gaal and Mourinho got close to having us competing, something soon stood in the way of building continuity, whether that was due to mistreating players, having an outdated playing-style or boring style, shoe-horning big ego players into positions they wanted, bad recruitment signing big names against their wishes etc. The list goes on but there was always a lack of trust, and eventually the penny dropped and the blame fell on the manager. The root of our problems were not solely due to the manager of choice, and the failure to realise this just prolonged our downfall post SAF. I highly doubt Ole would do better in the same scenario, but if Ole can do whats needed this time around it could just be marvellous times ahead.
If he proves himself good enough at building a squad, then we have a massive benefit in regards to continuity, because he has the inherent trust of everyone. Unless of course he fails to maintain the squad properly and land himself in similar trouble to our previous managers, but in that case he also would need to make his own mess. Doesn't look like it currently and as you say, it hasn't felt like it and I never doubted the teams application this season either.
Spoken like a true runner up.
Agree with your post though. I think the lack of perspective from some fans have been astonishing, even if the cause for it is real.My need for United winning silverware isn't as critical in my support of the club as some others. I don't contribute to its success since I am not part of the organisation. If I was actually involved in the organisation then it may be different. I am not going to ride off its coattail.The thing is that I can't see the players, the media, and other figures inside the club turning on Ole. He just get it. Every time Van Gaal and Mourinho got close to having us competing, something soon stood in the way of building continuity, whether that was due to mistreating players, having an outdated playing-style or boring style, shoe-horning big ego players into positions they wanted, bad recruitment signing big names against their wishes etc. The list goes on but there was always a lack of trust, and eventually the penny dropped and the blame fell on the manager. The root of our problems were not solely due to the manager of choice, and the failure to realise this just prolonged our downfall post SAF. I highly doubt Ole would do better in the same scenario, but if Ole can do whats needed this time around it could just be marvellous times ahead.
If he proves himself good enough at building a squad, then we have a massive benefit in regards to continuity, because he has the inherent trust of everyone. Unless of course he fails to maintain the squad properly and land himself in similar trouble to our previous managers, but in that case he also would need to make his own mess. Doesn't look like it currently and as you say, it hasn't felt like it and I never doubted the teams application this season either.
Spoken like a true runner up.
As a fan/supporter, I accept the ups and downs of the club. My reasons for supporting the club is more deeply rooted than by its success.
So Ole doesn’t counter press but somehow Poch does? Fantastic. So all the games where we counter press and we overran the opposition must not have happened. You focus so much on workshopping Poch that you have completely blinded yourself. You’re the troll here.
I am pretty sure Ole will beat Poch most of the times because he counter presses and also drop low to preserve energy if the team didn’t get the ball back right away. He’s also very direct, just look how our passes are when we decide to attack.
Poch has been great for Spurs, fair enough. It stops there really.
Stay strong my friend, time for you to step out and start believing again after your traumatic post-fergie relationship with the club.
I under stand your points, I'd argue that despite there being bad performances throughout the season the trajectory has been clear with clear improvements in the squad. We can't just ignore the big injuries we've suffered and pretend they didn't make his job very, very difficult either.
Finally, he himself said from the beginning of the season that this season there would be inconsistencies, ups and downs, and he was right. Despite that, it is quite clear that a lot of things surrounding the club have improved since he came here, including the football on the pitch which has been more and more exciting.
In my opinion he has done enough to deserve the opportunity to prove he can win things. Until he does win things, he will rightly be classed as not good enough, but in the end that could have just been a short sighted view.
I think we've turned a corner now. I refused to commit to that statement after any other big result this season. I'll give him some more time. Maybe his plan is starting to unfold? He has "his" team and plays "his" formations. Not 100% sure of his tactics as yet, but the players now seem bought in and it is yealding results and performances. Let's see where we finish and what (if anything) we finish with. After Spurs, the run of games is definitely a set of winnable ones. The past trouble we've had has been beating the ordinary teams, which a lot of these are.
Finally, someone made an actual logical reason to back Ole.
Most use the, "we must trust him and hope" or "he was a great player, decades ago", but the guy above has given a concrete argument.
Good stuff.
I for one, would still argue that being in 5th place with the lowest points total ever, is sackable and that the only reason we are doing well is because we have arguably the 2nd best No.10 on the planet. We are relying on individual talent and not tactics. We recently drew again Everton (who have a cheaper squad than ours), against a manager who is several levels above ours. Had Ancelotti been our manager, I am convinced we'd have won. I don't see any reason why we should have one of the worst managers in the EPL, managing us BUT the above is an excellent counter argument, which bizarrely nobody has made.
I have never seen anyone use this. Back Ole because he was a great player. Where is the proof for this?
Rhyme Animal himself gave Solskajer a huge amount of shit, just go back to the start of this thread and have a look. His stance has softened lately due to the improvement of our form but, myself and others have been arguing that this has been in the post under Ole's rein, and it's always been a case of getting in the right players to get these results.
Yes the same Ancelotti that just got spanked 4-0 by Chelsea, and the same Chelsea that got spanked by us. Come on man, Ole has been glorious, we are grinding out results against the big teams, still working on the minnows of the league but with our full strength squad back and a couple more signings this summer we will be good to go.
The style of football has been amazing, I've never felt more proud to watch the games as I have been of late. There is heart and there is passion in that squad now, is that not what we want?
No offense intended, but I find it hard to believe that anyone with knowledge of the game, United affiliated or otherwise, could have followed Ole's tenure and not once doubted his managerial abilities, especially given the overwhelming number of reasons to do just that.
Unless you were willing to show blind faith, of course, but that's another issue entirely.
I don't particularly have a problem if people have doubts or even prefer some other manager over him, just hope the personal insults to him stop, and the ridiculous hyperbole about his inability as a manger also stops.
Towards end of the last season(post Paris) was really poor otherwise we would have easily made it to top-4, I think Ole started addressing that by slowly getting rid of few players or not playing them.
This season he is really unlucky with injuries to our top players (SMT,Pogba,Rashford, Martial).
Even he goes now I am sure he will be remembered as someone who cleared the deck and laid good foundations by bringing in right players. Hope his love affair continues and with an addition of 2/3 other good players we can start looking at getting back to TOP.
This season he is really unlucky with injuries to our top players (SMT,Pogba,Rashford, Martial).
Even he goes now I am sure he will be remembered as someone who cleared the deck and laid good foundations by bringing in right players. Hope his love affair continues and with an addition of 2/3 other good players we can start looking at getting back to TOP.
I think we could have picked some other games to beat Ole with a stick. Everton game was difficult because Dave made it so in first 5 mins.
Managers are like players. They have potential too. The stuff about relying on individual talent is pretty ridiculous though. Which team or coach does not? And, Ole has proven in big games that he has some decent tactics. Beating low block teams are a different matter. They do need more of individual talents than tactics. We do not have enough individual talents on the pitch (most of the time due to having injuries) to change the game against those team. That's about it.
But, that's not saying that Ole will take us back to glory. He might well be. We will see.
Don't say 'sorry' too soon. When United lose and it will happen eventually, everything will be reversed to previous state here.