India politics thread

pratyush_utd

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Who hasn't India bullied? Sri Lanka, Maldives, Nepal Bhutan?
Sri Lanka is the only country where we made strategic mistake and that was like 30 years ago and paid the price by losing our PM through assassination. We have excellent relationship with all the country you mentioned there. Even with Afghanistan and Bangladesh.

I don't even know how it can be considered bullying. We literally had a months long standoff with Chinese for Bhutan (and also our interests.)
 

Foxbatt

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Sri Lanka is the only country where we made strategic mistake and that was like 30 years ago and paid the price by losing our PM through assassination. We have excellent relationship with all the country you mentioned there. Even with Afghanistan and Bangladesh.

I don't even know how it can be considered bullying. We literally had a months long standoff with Chinese for Bhutan (and also our interests.)
Yes your interests. That's bullying these countries. India was involved in getting rid of Rajapakse in Sri Lanka and then came the fiasco of the so called coalition of the useless in Sri Lanka. Now his brother is back as president. Before that there was a plan to invade Sri Lanka.

In Maldives India was again involved in the domestic affairs and even blocked MPs from traveling to India. Not only that blocked sale of some food stuff and materials too until there was a change in the government.
The Indian media was hostile and even called for invasion of the Maldives.

All because China was trading and financing commercial projects in these countries.
As for Nepal and Bhutan, India forces them to accept the Indian point of view instead of their own. I would understand and accept that if Pakistan was involved then India would take an opposing views. But these are internal matters of these countries and they are not giving military bases to China and only trading.
 

pratyush_utd

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Yes your interests. That's bullying these countries. India was involved in getting rid of Rajapakse in Sri Lanka and then came the fiasco of the so called coalition of the useless in Sri Lanka. Now his brother is back as president. Before that there was a plan to invade Sri Lanka.

In Maldives India was again involved in the domestic affairs and even blocked MPs from traveling to India. Not only that blocked sale of some food stuff and materials too until there was a change in the government.
The Indian media was hostile and even called for invasion of the Maldives.

All because China was trading and financing commercial projects in these countries.
As for Nepal and Bhutan, India forces them to accept the Indian point of view instead of their own. I would understand and accept that if Pakistan was involved then India would take an opposing views. But these are internal matters of these countries and they are not giving military bases to China and only trading.
Invade a sovereign country? Who do you think India is ? USA or China? I did miss the election fiasco but even Sri Lanka realise now the debt trap which China baited them into. Do you think India should just roll down and accept china naval base right next to its Southern border?

Maldives is right next to India and having Chinese presence was not acceptable. China was not interested in merely trade and India offered concessions which was accepted by Maldives. Its just called strategic negotiations rather bullying.

I think you are being extremely naive when it comes to China. India does not want Chinese presence near our border and we dealt with it by diplomacy not bullying.
 

Foxbatt

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Invade a sovereign country? Who do you think India is ? USA or China? I did miss the election fiasco but even Sri Lanka realise now the debt trap which China baited them into. Do you think India should just roll down and accept china naval base right next to its Southern border?

Maldives is right next to India and having Chinese presence was not acceptable. China was not interested in merely trade and India offered concessions which was accepted by Maldives. Its just called strategic negotiations rather bullying.

I think you are being extremely naive when it comes to China. India does not want Chinese presence near our border and we dealt with it by diplomacy not bullying.
Listen mate. I don't know the ins and outs of India domestic politics but I do know a lot more than most people about what happens in Sri Lanka and Maldives. If anyone thinks or thought that Sri Lanka and Maldives was going to give a base to any foreign country then they are bigger idiots than they look. At no time was China even asking or these countries discussing about a military base.
It was not diplomacy but bullying. The government itself may not have threatened openly in invasion but when ex diplomats go on TV in India and call for invasion then it's exactly bullying.
 

pratyush_utd

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Listen mate. I don't know the ins and outs of India domestic politics but I do know a lot more than most people about what happens in Sri Lanka and Maldives. If anyone thinks or thought that Sri Lanka and Maldives was going to give a base to any foreign country then they are bigger idiots than they look. At no time was China even asking or these countries discussing about a military base.
It was not diplomacy but bullying. The government itself may not have threatened openly in invasion but when ex diplomats go on TV in India and call for invasion then it's exactly bullying.
Sri Lanka and Maldives may not give but under Chinese debt, they don't really had too much of an option. You think the deal was trade only then fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. I am sure Maldives and Sri Lanka has so much to offer to China in terms of trade. Don't go around throwing insults, its uncalled for. And i have no idea from where you have got this invasion story from.
 

Foxbatt

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Sri Lanka and Maldives may not give but under Chinese debt, they don't really had too much of an option. You think the deal was trade only then fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. I am sure Maldives and Sri Lanka has so much to offer to China in terms of trade. Don't go around throwing insults, its uncalled for. And i have no idea from where you have got this invasion story from.
What are you talking about debt? Every country has debts and I know for a fact that both countries are capable and are paying it off.
The invasion story is from the Indian military. They had plans to invade Sri Lanka and then on Indian TV former diplomats were calling for the invasion of Maldives. This not a hearsay. I saw it and many people have.
 

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@Foxbatt Chinese submarine literally docked at Colombo and Sri Lanka has practically signed away Hambantota to Beijing because they couldn't service the debt.

You're being extremely naive or on a WUM if you don't see why a China owned port on the Indian Ocean right next to India is a valid security concern. And wtf are you on about the invasion theory?
 

Foxbatt

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@Foxbatt Chinese submarine literally docked at Colombo and Sri Lanka has practically signed away Hambantota to Beijing because they couldn't service the debt.

You're being extremely naive or on a WUM if you don't see why a China owned port on the Indian Ocean right next to India is a valid security concern. And wtf are you on about the invasion theory?
I know that for a fact that Hanbantota port is not a military port. Have you been to Sri Lanka or Maldives? I have too many times to count. Colombo and Hanbantota are two different places. Sri Lankan constitution does not allow to give bases to foreign countries.
The invasion was planned in 1987 the Sri Lankan army launched an operation against Tamil Tigers in Jaffna. The Indian air force with their jets flew over Sri Lanka. The Indian High Commissioner informed the Sri Lankan government unless the army stopped India will be forced to take action. The plan was there to invade Sri Lanka.
Even if China or anyone else has a base( there is nothing at that sort anyway) no one has a right to invade or bully any country. You guys may be too young to know or have no knowledge apart from what you see on the internet.
They send a helicopter with Indian military to Maldives in 2010 and then refused to withdraw it when requested by the Maldives government too. Since you don't have knowledge of what goes in these countries I do understand that you would know the real situation.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Anything the BJP do can be absolved by saying "it's always happened, nothing new about that".
 

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I know that for a fact that Hanbantota port is not a military port. Have you been to Sri Lanka or Maldives? I have too many times to count. Colombo and Hanbantota are two different places. Sri Lankan constitution does not allow to give bases to foreign countries.
The invasion was planned in 1987 the Sri Lankan army launched an operation against Tamil Tigers in Jaffna. The Indian air force with their jets flew over Sri Lanka. The Indian High Commissioner informed the Sri Lankan government unless the army stopped India will be forced to take action. The plan was there to invade Sri Lanka.
Even if China or anyone else has a base( there is nothing at that sort anyway) no one has a right to invade or bully any country. You guys may be too young to know or have no knowledge apart from what you see on the internet.
They send a helicopter with Indian military to Maldives in 2010 and then refused to withdraw it when requested by the Maldives government too. Since you don't have knowledge of what goes in these countries I do understand that you would know the real situation.
Your air of superiority and know-it-all tone is absolutely not needed. More so when you are spouting stuff about points I haven't even mentioned.

Hambantota has been handed over on a lease for China to operate the port. If you don't know that, look it up. I never said Colombo and Hambantota are nearby. In fact one simple reason why Hambantota is a political favor is that there was no reason to build a port there in the middle of nowhere instead of up north except for the reason that it is Rajapaksas home place.

Sri Lanka did allow a Chinese submarine to dock in Colombo port during Rajapaksas first term, which is a severe security risk from Indias perspective. Because China gets a warm water port on the Indian Ocean shipping channel and a listening port right next to Chennai and nearby Vishakapatnam, both of which are important for the navy. If you cannot understand that, again I've nothing to say.

The invasion via peace keeping corps of 40 years ago proves nothing except that our then leadership was wrong in taking a big brotherly attitude. Not sure why you keep on repeating it. Rajiv Gandhi was fool hardy doing it and paid with his life. And Sri Lanka of then (civil war torn and weak) is very different from the one today. India can't push over any of her neighbours without consequences today.

I'm not saying India has perfect relationships with her neighbours. Far from it. We pushed Sri Lanka and Maldives and even Nepal to China's arms. Our geopolitical acumen is distinctly sub par especially for our neighbours - and I firmly believe India is to blame for that.

But the absolute anti Indian crap that you're on about is nonsense and honestly not even relevant to this thread.

Lastly just because you've been in the country several times doesn't make you an expert.
 

Foxbatt

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Your air of superiority and know-it-all tone is absolutely not needed. More so when you are spouting stuff about points I haven't even mentioned.

Hambantota has been handed over on a lease for China to operate the port. If you don't know that, look it up. I never said Colombo and Hambantota are nearby. In fact one simple reason why Hambantota is a political favor is that there was no reason to build a port there in the middle of nowhere instead of up north except for the reason that it is Rajapaksas home place.

Sri Lanka did allow a Chinese submarine to dock in Colombo port during Rajapaksas first term, which is a severe security risk from Indias perspective. Because China gets a warm water port on the Indian Ocean shipping channel and a listening port right next to Chennai and nearby Vishakapatnam, both of which are important for the navy. If you cannot understand that, again I've nothing to say.

The invasion via peace keeping corps of 40 years ago proves nothing except that our then leadership was wrong in taking a big brotherly attitude. Not sure why you keep on repeating it. Rajiv Gandhi was fool hardy doing it and paid with his life. And Sri Lanka of then (civil war torn and weak) is very different from the one today. India can't push over any of her neighbours without consequences today.

I'm not saying India has perfect relationships with her neighbours. Far from it. We pushed Sri Lanka and Maldives and even Nepal to China's arms. Our geopolitical acumen is distinctly sub par especially for our neighbours - and I firmly believe India is to blame for that.

But the absolute anti Indian crap that you're on about is nonsense and honestly not even relevant to this thread.

Lastly just because you've been in the country several times doesn't make you an expert.
Of course I am an expert in the region. I speak both languages and lived there. It's not an anti Indian rant. It's the reality of the mistakes India makes in the region.
This is not on the politicians of India but the civil service and foreign service mandarins of India.
When you have the Indian High Commissioner act as a Viceroy there is going to be push backs.

The Indian involvement originally in Sri Lanka doesn't involve China at all. It involved the USA who wanted the port of Trincomalee. India never support the independent Tamil Elam because they very well know that Tamil Nadu could try to join with Elam. No all they wanted was to create trouble so the Sri Lankan government can't get involved with anyone else. The Tamil Tigers who fought against the IPKF was treated in Tamil Nadu hospitals. It was a fight RAW Vs Indian military. Indian military could have killed Prabakaran many times but the government has banned the military from doing it. Eventually he killed Rajiv because he found out that Rajiv never supported an independent Tamil state in Sri Lanka.
The Indian government has got too much power in some people like the NSA or even some people in the foreign ministry. The PM is too busy to know if there was a submarine visiting Sri Lanka or Maldives. Most probably he won't even know that.
Indian aid is conditional with too many attachments. China is different. They only want one thing and that is a vote for them in the international forums and organisations. They are not interested in the internal politics of the country. It's strictly commercial and the vote. India likes to play local politics. Maybe it's from the colonial era of the British.

Apart from the politics India is fairly good to her neighbours apart from Pakistan which is understandable. I deal a lot in the region with the Indian government too. Very professional people. Very helpful too, especially the military.
India doesn't need to operate that way. Everyone in the region understands that India is not going to disappear and will be the regional power. China is too far away and too weak to get involved in the region. This is something India needs to understand that at this moment in time, in the Indian Ocean, China is nothing. Not only because of India but because the USA has got Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean and they would not let anyone else, be it China or even India be able to threaten them there.
Maybe Modi with his dictatorial tendencies may be able to stop the bureaucrats trying to get too much influence. Or maybe India needs an executive style Presidency instead of a Prime Minister.
 

pratyush_utd

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Your air of superiority and know-it-all tone is absolutely not needed. More so when you are spouting stuff about points I haven't even mentioned.

Hambantota has been handed over on a lease for China to operate the port. If you don't know that, look it up. I never said Colombo and Hambantota are nearby. In fact one simple reason why Hambantota is a political favor is that there was no reason to build a port there in the middle of nowhere instead of up north except for the reason that it is Rajapaksas home place.

Sri Lanka did allow a Chinese submarine to dock in Colombo port during Rajapaksas first term, which is a severe security risk from Indias perspective. Because China gets a warm water port on the Indian Ocean shipping channel and a listening port right next to Chennai and nearby Vishakapatnam, both of which are important for the navy. If you cannot understand that, again I've nothing to say.

The invasion via peace keeping corps of 40 years ago proves nothing except that our then leadership was wrong in taking a big brotherly attitude. Not sure why you keep on repeating it. Rajiv Gandhi was fool hardy doing it and paid with his life. And Sri Lanka of then (civil war torn and weak) is very different from the one today. India can't push over any of her neighbours without consequences today.

I'm not saying India has perfect relationships with her neighbours. Far from it. We pushed Sri Lanka and Maldives and even Nepal to China's arms. Our geopolitical acumen is distinctly sub par especially for our neighbours - and I firmly believe India is to blame for that.

But the absolute anti Indian crap that you're on about is nonsense and honestly not even relevant to this thread.

Lastly just because you've been in the country several times doesn't make you an expert.
No point in discussing this. He doesn't understand the difference between strong diplomacy and bullying. Also has no clue about China debt trap policy. If what India does is bullying then I don't know what Hong Kong, Taiwan and Cuba will feel about their neighbours.
 

AshRK

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China is too far away and too weak to get involved in the region. This is something India needs to understand that at this moment in time, in the Indian Ocean, China is nothing.
I am not going to go into details of your posts but you are massively wrong if you think china doesn't have a strong influence with India's neighbors. You are underestimating china big time by saying they are nothing or weak.
 

Foxbatt

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I am not going to go into details of your posts but you are massively wrong if you think china doesn't have a strong influence with India's neighbors. You are underestimating china big time by saying they are nothing or weak.
They don't. I know that for a fact. They are weak in the region. The strongest is the USA. As for Chinese bullying or course they do. So do many others including the USA, Russia, France and the UK too. The Saudis too.
I deal with it generally so I know what I am talking about. I don't comment on Indian domestic politics because I don't know much about it as Indians do. But this is my field.
If you think I am Indian bashing then you are wrong. SARC needs a strong and reliable India.
You guys are getting too sensitive. The real world is different.
India needs to understand the region better. No one likes to be pushed around. Big or small. They need to understand that the other countries do understand that India is not going to go away. They are not stupid. So a bit of more diplomacy and less involvement in domestic affairs of other countries would be what is required.
 

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The Jallianwalla bagh anniversary is today. Here's the speach that Shaheed Uddham Singh ( who gave his name as Ram Mohammed Singh Azad) gave in London after having been convicted and sentenced to death for the assassination of Colonel Michael O'Dwyer (former governer of Punjab).

"I say down with British Imperialism. You say India do not have peace. We have only slavery Generations of so-called civilization has brought us everything filthy and degenerating. known to the human race. All you have to do is read your own history. If you have any human decency about you, you should die with shame. The brutality and bloodthirsty way in which the so-called intellectuals who call themselves rulers of civilization in the world are bastard blood . . ."
At this point, he was interrupted by the judge, but after some discussion, he continued:
"I do not care about the sentence of death. It means nothing at all. I do not care about dying or anything. I do not worry about it at all. I am dying for a purpose.’ Thumping the rail of the dock, he exclaimed, ‘We are suffering from the British Empire.’ Udham Singh continued more quietly. ‘I am not afraid to die. I am proud to die, to have to free my native land and I hope that when I am gone, I hope that in my place will come thousands of my countrymen to drive you dirty dogs out; to free my country.
"I am standing before an English jury. I am in an English court. You people go to India and when you come back you are given a prize and put in the House of Commons. We come to England and we are sentenced to death.’
"I never meant anything, but I will take it. I do not care anything about it, but when you dirty dogs come to India there comes a time when you will be cleaned out of India. All your British Imperialism will be smashed.’ "Machine guns on the streets of India mow down thousands of poor women and children wherever your so-called flag of democracy and Christianity flies.’
"Your conduct, your conduct – I am talking about the British government. I have nothing against the English people at all. I have more English friends living in England than I have in India. I have great sympathy with the workers of England. I am against the Imperialist Government.’
"You people are suffering – workers. Everyone are suffering through these dirty dogs; these mad beasts. India is only slavery. Killing, mutilating and destroying – British Imperialism. People do not read about it in the papers. We know what is going on in India."
At this point, the judge refused to hear any more, but Singh continued:
"You ask me what I have to say. I am saying it. Because you people are dirty. You do not want to hear from us what you are doing in India.
He then thrust his glasses back into his pocket, and exclaimed three words in Hindustani and then shouted:
'Down with British Imperialism! Down with British dirty dogs!"
He turned to leave the dock, spitting across the solicitor’s table.
Legend.
 

2cents

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The Jallianwalla bagh anniversary is today. Here's the speach that Shaheed Uddham Singh ( who gave his name as Ram Mohammed Singh Azad) gave in London after having been convicted and sentenced to death for the assassination of Colonel Michael O'Dwyer (former governer of Punjab).



Legend.
My sister got me this book for Christmas, I’ve been meaning to read it soon -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patient_Assassin
 

RedTiger

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My sister got me this book for Christmas, I’ve been meaning to read it soon -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patient_Assassin
Hindsight is a valuable thing bro. I do wonder whether Reginald Dyer ever came to realise how integral his actions were to the eventual independence of India. Would you say that bloody Sunday 1920 had the same effect for Ireland? It's funny how one ill thought out action can have reverberating consequences for the will of a people.
 

2cents

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Hindsight is a valuable thing bro. I do wonder whether Reginald Dyer ever came to realise how integral his actions were to the eventual independence of India. Would you say that bloody Sunday 1920 had the same effect for Ireland? It's funny how one ill thought out action can have reverberating consequences for the will of a people.
Probably the British response to our 1916 Rising would be a closer comparison there. By the time of Bloody Sunday we were already at war and less than a year away from (partial) independence.

India still had a long way to go after 1919, and the path its movement took was, of course, quite different to ours.

But yeah, it’s certainly a pattern in late British imperial history - see the Denshawai Incident for Egypt’s equivalent.
 

pratyush_utd

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Does anybody has clue what is happening with West Bengal? Even covid19india.org site is flagging the issue that numbers may not be correct.

Is it because of state election? Religious gathering are not stopped. Non essential shops are open even during lockdown. Norms are not same as other states. Doctor forums in West Bengal is raising the issue that transparency of data is not there.
 

VidaRed

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I know ML Sharma. His private practice as a lawyer is almost nil and behaves like a scoundrel within the court premises, you'd see him fighting with other lawyers in the corridors and using mc bc language. It is common knowledge that the bjp uses him to file a badly drafted petition against the govt in the hope that it gets dismissed and which is what happens most of the times. Even some ngo's use him for similar purposes. Even the congress got him to file a few petitions when they were in the government. Apart from this he also gets involved in matters which have caught the public eye as means to generate a name for himself.
 
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coolredwine

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The case may be depicted for your understanding as follows: suddenly, a police posse descends down on your residence and ransacks your house without showing any warrant. At the end, they arrest you and lodge in the police lockup. In the court, they would say that while investigating a theft (or any other complaint) case in xxx place (substitute any place in India) police recovered a pen drive or a computer from yyy (substitute any name) in which some letters written by a supposed member of some banned organisation were recovered that had a mention of zzz who according to the police is none other than you. They present you as part of deep conspiracy.

Suddenly, you find your world turned topsy-turvy. Your job gone, family losing house, media defaming you about which you cannot do a damn thing. Police will produce “sealed envelopes” to convince judges that there was a prima facie case against you that needs custodial interrogation. No arguments about there being no evidence would be entertained as judges would answer that it would be seen in trial.

After custodial interrogation, you will be sent to jail. You beg for bail and the courts will reject them as the historical data shows that the average period of incarceration ranged from four to 10 years before they got bail or acquitted. And this can happen literally to ANYONE. In the name of the “nation”, such draconian legislations that denude innocent people of their liberties and all constitutional rights are constitutionally validated.

The jingoist nation and nationalism have got weaponised by the political class to destroy dissent and polarise people. The mass frenzy has accomplished complete derationalisation and inversion of meanings where destroyers of the nation become deshbhakts and selfless servers of people become deshdrohis.

As I see my India being ruined, it is with a feeble hope that I write to you at such a grim moment. Well, I am off to National Investigative Agency custody and do not know when I shall be able to talk to you again. However, I earnestly hope that you will speak out before your turn comes. Anand Teltumbde


https://scroll.in/article/959082/i-...open-letter-a-day-before-he-is-to-be-arrested
 

MDFC Manager

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Does anybody has clue what is happening with West Bengal? Even covid19india.org site is flagging the issue that numbers may not be correct.

Is it because of state election? Religious gathering are not stopped. Non essential shops are open even during lockdown. Norms are not same as other states. Doctor forums in West Bengal is raising the issue that transparency of data is not there.
Any sources for all of these?
 

pratyush_utd

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Any sources for all of these?
Go to covid19india.org, you will see an asterisk against Bengal numbers. It is one of the most reliable site for tracking total number of cases.
For others, I will try to find the link.
 

VidaRed

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Delhi Man in Defense Colony Dies Of COVID-19, Guard Blamed For Infection Tests Negative
Coronavirus: The three were being treated in Max Hospital, Saket. An elderly man in his 80s died yesterday and his son is on the ventilator. The man's wife has recovered

New Delhi: A security guard accused of infecting three of a family in Delhi's Defence Colony has tested negative for COVID-19, NDTV has found.

The three were being treated at Max Hospital, Saket. An elderly man in his 80s died on Wednesday and his son is on the ventilator. The man's wife has recovered and has been discharged.

The family had blamed their security guard, accusing him of visiting the Tablighi Jamaat gathering last month, which emerged as a major virus hotspot linked to cases across the country.

But the guard's test report, accessed by NDTV, is negative. The test was conducted by RML hospital on 11 April, but days later, an officer at the Defence Colony police station said the report was still awaited.

Based on the family's accusations, the guard was charged by the police.


The police had claimed that his mobile phone records had placed him in the Nizamuddin area. The Tablighi Jamaat centre where the gathering was held, Markaz Nizamuddin, is also in the area.

They had put up a notice in the upscale colony, naming the guard and warning residents that he may have visited the Tablighi gathering and was missing. WhatsApp messages were also sent.

In the past week, however, there was no news on whether the guard had tested positive for coronavirus. Reports said he had been tracked down by the police and quarantined. Some even claimed he was missing.

NDTV spoke to the guard, who said he was not on the run but had been quarantined in his one-room dwelling in Okhla. His landlord has received a call from RML Hospital that his COVID test report was negative.

"They told me it's negative. So you don't have to worry anymore," the guard said on the phone.

He denied that he had ever visited the Tablighi centre. "I have never stepped inside the Nizamuddin Markaz. I never used to go to the Markaz. I used to go the mosque that is 20 metres away. The mosque used to open and shut at its regular timings and I would leave right after the namaaz. I will not lie to you."

A police officer, not wishing to be named, confirmed this to NDTV. "The update that we have obtained from the hospital is that it is negative," he said.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/delhi-defence-colony-coronavirus-security-guard-accused-of-infecting-3-of-delhi-family-covid-19-nega-2213025
 
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