India politics thread

[Suv666]

Errm BJP can be blamed for a lot of things but it did not force people to lynch people in this case. That's on Sikhs and their extremist stance towards anything that qualifies as scarliege. The media and public response to same has been shameful

Tbf though this would have happened irrespective of religion. If someone tried to desecrate a Muslim or Hindu holy site I'm sure the outcome would have been the same. Things get out of hand when mobs are involved.

I dont really follow mainstream media what have they been saying?

 

[coolredwine]

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[Peter van der Gea]

Errm BJP can be blamed for a lot of things but it did not force people to lynch people in this case. That's on Sikhs and their extremist stance towards anything that qualifies as scarliege. The media and public response to same has been shameful

The Sikhs have been second class citizens in every state other than Punjab for 80 years.

Hindu nationalists are claiming Sikhism as an off shoot of Hinduism.

Give the non Hindus our land back and you won't get lynched. Simple. Otherwise, don't expect us to not Freedom fight.

Hinduism is an amalgamation of different belief throughout India, but Sikhism isn't one of those, so terrorists from UP will get merked by the old men in our Gurduwaras if they try and do what 1984 didn't.

 

[Sultan]

Errm BJP can be blamed for a lot of things but it did not force people to lynch people in this case. That's on Sikhs and their extremist stance towards anything that qualifies as scarliege. The media and public response to same has been shameful

Understand these things happen on the spur of the moment with emotions getting the better of people. However, the fault line is previous lynchings not being condemned by this government and it's now seen as open season for fundamentalist groups to take the law into their own hand. Lynchings had hardly ever been heard of prior to BJP taking power.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Politicians will be like "Yes!! That's the kind of easily triggered, polarized mobs that we want, Just makes getting to power all the more easy"

 

[Desert Eagle]

I am against violence especially religious violence however go to any sacred religious site in the world and try to desecrate a holy book/artifact/monument when loads of religious fanatics are there and you are taking a huge risk. Go look at how many believers die during the Hajj , now imagine someone started burning a Quran in the middle of it.

The law should punish those responsible though unfortunately seems like there won't be enough evidence or motivation to convict the guilty parties.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I am against violence especially religious violence however go to any sacred religious site in the world and try to desecrate a holy book/artifact/monument when loads of religious fanatics are there and you are taking a huge risk. Go look at how many believers die during the Hajj , now imagine someone started burning a Quran in the middle of it.

The law should punish those responsible though unfortunately seems like there won't be enough evidence or motivation to convict the guilty parties.

Stop with this whataboutery. It doesn't matter whether another set of believers are worse or not. There was one person who tried to do something. Now, we do not even know if he was mentally sane. And he was stopped/caught/brought under control physically.
The next course of action should be to hand him over to the cops. Not beat him till death.

 

[fishfingers15]

If there's a but... or however... in your post, whatever follows usually tends to be deplorable.

 

[fishfingers15]

I abhor violence but.. just stop with the abhor violence, there's no need of but.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Stop with this whataboutery. It doesn't matter whether another set of believers are worse or not. There was one person who tried to do something. Now, we do not even know if he was mentally sane. And he was stopped/caught/brought under control physically.
The next course of action should be to hand him over to the cops. Not beat him till death.

I agree completely with the bolded. The point is in a religious setting you are likely to be surrounded by fanatics and that comes with inherent risk.

 

[Sultan]

The point is in a religious setting you are likely to be surrounded by fanatics and that comes with inherent risk.

I understand where you're coming and such people think they are defenders of their faith.

If anything, the people in and around the inner sanctum of the shrine should be spiritually charged and be the best of people. A lot of these fundamentalists are generally emotionally charged and driven. They don't differentiate between spiritualism and emotion. A God-loving spiritual person would always hasten to stop such behaviour.

I am more than confident if something similar had happened in a religious setting in the West the person would not have been lynched. The problem I think is made acceptable in certain countries and these fanatics are seen as heroes.

 

[RedDevil@84]

The point is in a religious setting you are likely to be surrounded by fanatics and that comes with inherent risk.

That is only because the law in India is not strong enough (thanks largely to opportunistic politicians) to arrest the guys who kill people because they were triggered. If they knew that they will be charged and jailed, then many would think twice before letting their emotions get the better of them.

 

[Desert Eagle]

That is only because the law in India is not strong enough (thanks largely to opportunistic politicians) to arrest the guys who kill people because they were triggered. If they knew that they will be charged and jailed, then many would think twice before letting their emotions get the better of them.

In most cases yes but religion has that special sauce where they are unlikely to be thinking about legal/criminal deterrents.

I understand where you're coming and such people think they are defenders of their faith.

If anything, the people in and around the inner sanctum of the shrine should be spiritually charged and be the best of people. A lot of these fundamentalists are generally emotionally charged and driven. They don't differentiate between spiritualism and emotion. A God-loving spiritual person would always hasten to stop such behaviour.

I am more than confident if something similar had happened in a religious setting in the West the person would not have been lynched. The problem I think is made acceptable in certain countries and these fanatics are seen as heroes.

There is probably a scale in terms of country/religion for fanaticism and I'd tend to agree most Western countries would come out ahead of Asian/African/South American countries but then that starts the debate about resources and education and why certain parts of the world are lagging far behind others(spoiler alert: a lot of the blame lies with imperialism and foreign meddling)

Would be great if all Sikhs/Muslims/Hindus/Jews etc were "spiritually charged and the best of people" but that is not the world we live in and we have examples almost daily that religion is not the answer to a more moral and compassionate society.

 

[RedTiger]

so terrorists from UP will get merked by the old men in our Gurduwaras if they try and do what 1984 didn't.

Chill bro, now is the time to dial the temperature down and not raise it.

 

[Sultan]

Would be great if all Sikhs/Muslims/Hindus/Jews etc were "spiritually charged and the best of people" but that is not the world we live in and we have examples almost daily that religion is not the answer to a more moral and compassionate society.

I assure you there are millions who are spiritually charged people from all faiths and refrain from wrongdoing knowing they will have to answer for their actions. They make for great people and examples for humanity. Unfortunately, that does not make the news.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I assure you there are millions who are spiritually charged people from all faiths and refrain from wrongdoing knowing they will have to answer for their actions. They make for great people and examples for humanity. Unfortunately, that does not make the news.

I think those millions would refrain from wrong doing without a holy book, revelation or prophet. Morality, compassion and spirituality predate most modern religions.

 

[Sultan]

I think those millions would refrain from wrong doing without a holy book, revelation or prophet. Morality, compassion and spirituality predate most modern religions.

Not always, bro.

Religious beliefs and the ultimate belief in expecting a reward in the hereafter do help and change people to do good which might not have happened without religion in their life.

Anyway, we are changing the course of this thread. Best to cease our convo.

Love and peace x

 

[Desert Eagle]

Not always, bro.

Religious beliefs and the ultimate belief in expecting a reward in the hereafter do help and change people to do good which might not have happened without religion in their life.

Anyway, we are changing the course of this thread. Best to cease our convo.

Love and peace x

Love and peace Sults. Happy holidays to you and your loved ones brother.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Chill bro, now is the time to dial the temperature down and not raise it.

Sorry, I was having a hard day. Peace

 

[VidaRed]

82% Sikh youth pray frequently, highly religious compared to others, shows CSDS-Lokniti survey

New Delhi: An overwhelming majority of Sikh youth are highly religious, so much so that just 1 per cent of them have never prayed, a survey released last week has found.

The survey, titled ‘Indian Youth: Aspirations and Vision for the Future’, was conducted in July-August this year by the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS) under its research programme ‘Lokniti’, in collaboration with German think tank ‘Konrad Adenauer Stiftung’ (KAS).

High religiosity among Sikhs

Around 82 per cent Sikh youngsters pray regularly or sometimes even if there is no festival being celebrated. The corresponding figure was 74 per cent for Christians, 72 per cent for Muslims, 69 per cent for Hindus and 46 per cent for others.

Around 86 per cent Sikh youngsters visited a place of worship (gurudwara) even when there was no festival, compared to 57 per cent each for Hindus and Christians and 56 per cent for Muslims.

The share of Sikh youth drawn towards TV channels showing religious programming has gone up from the previous round of the survey, which is opposite to the trend observed across all other communities. In 2016, 73 per cent Sikhs reported watching religious shows on TV, which has risen to 82 per cent this year.

The share of youth drawn towards religious shows on TV has fallen by 3 per cent among Hindus (60 from 63), 13 per cent among Muslims (49 from 62) and 1 per cent among Christians (51 from 52).

“The proliferation of Shabad Kirtan Gurbani channels (religious TV channels) in Punjab during the last few years may account for the relatively higher tendency among Sikhs to watch religious programmes on TV, although the trend towards an increase in religious programmes on TV and launch of channels exclusively dedicated to religious discourse is not limited to Punjab alone,” the report said.

50% supported ban on stand-up comedy on any religion

The survey data showed that around 50 per cent of the overall respondents supported a ban on stand-up comedy on any religion, while only a third (32 per cent) opposed it and 18 per cent had no response.

Around 48 per cent youngsters supported a ban on comedy movies on religious leaders.

The share of youngsters from the Sikh community supporting a ban on stand-up comedy about religion was overwhelmingly high at 86 per cent, while only 13 per cent opposed it and 2 per cent gave no response.

Among Christian respondents, 62 per cent supported a ban on comedy relating to religious matters.

A little over half (51 per cent) of the Hindu respondents were in favour of banning stand-up comedy on any religion.

Among Muslims, slightly more youth opposed bans (39 per cent) on such stand-up comedy shows than those who supported it (38 per cent), while 23 per cent gave no response.

On comedy movies on religious leaders, 85 per cent Sikhs supported a ban, followed by 65 per cent Christians, 49 per cent Hindus and 36 per cent Muslims. Here too, more Muslims opposed (46 per cent) such a ban than those who supported it.

“When it comes to religion, people do not take satire in a very sporting way,” said Sanjay Kumar, professor and co-director of Lokniti, the research programme at the CSDS.

“People in smaller numbers exhibit a higher desire to protect their religion. They engage in more religious activities. And when they see some kind of attack on their faith, they become aggressively defensive. What we saw in Amritsar (alleged sacrilege and lynching) is a manifestation of that,” said Kumar.

There are Sikh stand-up comedians like Jasmeet Singh Bhatia, Jaspreet Singh and Angad Singh Ranyal who have garnered millions of views on their YouTube stand-up comedy shows, but they too do not crack jokes on religion.

“It is mostly because the volume of respect towards religion and religious matters is extremely high among the Sikhs — this is their cultural heritage. They consider their Gurus as their role models because of the numerous sacrifices they made and any disrespect to them is followed by strong resistance,” said Pali Bhupinder Singh, a playwright and expert on cultural matters in Punjab.

https://theprint.in/india/82-sikh-y...d-to-others-shows-csds-lokniti-survey/784879/

 

[milemuncher777]

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[DM07]

Any Sikhs here?

Sikhs are the next enemies of this Hindutva movement. The propoganda has started on WhatsApp/Twitter. The infighting of Guru Gobind Singh's wife which resulted in defeat to Mughals, the consideration of a holy book like a god (waving fan over it), above everything else, how 6 of the 10 gurus are basically from the same extended family, etc are being used to ridicule the religion.

The hindutva guys are kind of relived from the lynching. You read things like entire Hinduism was blamed for beating up of a child inside a temple but no one is blaming Sikhism for lynching a guy inside the temple. They have conviniently forgotten the numerous lynchings over cow protection. It's hilariously ironic to see them get together and raising voice against this lynching in golden temple when they have indirectly supported all lunchers in the name of Hinduism.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Any Sikhs here?

Sikhs are the next enemies of this Hindutva movement. The propoganda has started on WhatsApp/Twitter. The infighting of Guru Gobind Singh's wife which resulted in defeat to Mughals, the consideration of a holy book like a god (waving fan over it), above everything else, how 6 of the 10 gurus are basically from the same extended family, etc are being used to ridicule the religion.

The hindutva guys are kind of relived from the lynching. You read things like entire Hinduism was blamed for beating up of a child inside a temple but no one is blaming Sikhism for lynching a guy inside the temple. They have conviniently forgotten the numerous lynchings over cow protection. It's hilariously ironic to see them get together and raising voice against this lynching in golden temple when they have indirectly supported all lunchers in the name of Hinduism.

What the feck are you on about. Are you really trying to ridicule Sikhism?

 

[DM07]

What the feck are you on about. Are you really trying to ridicule Sikhism?

Ofcourse not. I am posting what I have read on hindutva WhatsApp groups and twitter timelines. After the farmers protest, these nutters have gradually started targetting Sikhs. Don't be surprised if they are targeted like Muslims and Christians.

 

[MDFC Manager]

On lynchings:

 

[Sultan]

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Seriously disturbing the path of hate openly encouraged by state mechanisms.

 

[RedTiger]

Seriously disturbing the path of hate openly encouraged by state mechanisms.

Elected officials in a democratic country saying this and no ripples in international news

 

[Sultan]

Elected officials in a democratic country saying this and no ripples in international news

That thread was vomit-inducing. Imagine if Muslim, Christian, Sikh or Hindu leaders uttered such nonsense in India?

 

[coolredwine]

On lynchings:

Solid logic there. No data because it’s unreliable, hence no crime. Essentially did the same with Covid too.

 

[coolredwine]

Elected officials in a democratic country saying this and no ripples in international news

It will follow soon when they start catching up. And then Indian govt will treat it like it’s WMD.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Solid logic there. No data because it’s unreliable, hence no crime. Essentially did the same with Covid too.

Correct. And where you can't feign lack of data (economy, growth indicators etc), just fudge the numbers and/or change the metrics all together.

 

[Suv666]

 

[devips]

I wonder. Would there be incidents of lynching in the Indian religious buildings in western countries if there were events of "alleged" sacrilege? My guess is nobody would dare break the law.

It tells me this " spiritual" fanaticism actually has boundaries drawn on all four sides. Where Govts enforce the law in a fair but tough way, fanatics tone down their fanaticism.

It also tells me, in India and Pakistan too, lynchings would come down drastically if the laws are complied with in a fair way.

 

[DM07]

I wonder if the EU and the US will eventually wake up and say things are spiralling out of control in India and it needs international censure and sanctions. Or are they keep going to turn a blind eye to India as they need a somewhat powerful ally against China in South Asia.

 

[coolredwine]

Correct. And where you can't feign lack of data (economy, growth indicators etc), just fudge the numbers and/or change the metrics all together.

Or "we don't agree with the ratings" ala this genius:

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[coolredwine]

I wonder if the EU and the US will eventually wake up and say things are spiralling out of control in India and it needs international censure and sanctions. Or are they keep going to turn a blind eye to India as they need a somewhat powerful ally against China in South Asia.

tbf, they haven't exactly turned a blind eye, but sanctions are a reach when it comes to India. Far too big a country.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Or "we don't agree with the ratings" ala this genius:

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[Suv666]

Round up of some of the comments. Indian society is beyond repair.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

India should be broken up into all the federal states. Let the people who feel the country be in charge of their country's progress

 

[milemuncher777]

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