He's hardly all out attack but his Real side were devastating on the counter attack. It couldn't be near as bad as the shit currently being played. He simply couldn't be any more negative and depressing than Jose.
Is Diego Simeone the best man to take the club forward?
- Thread starter Nikelesh Reddy
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Let's not kid ourselves, when Jose leaves and takes up another job and that team does well, people will start to understand that it has nothing to do with Jose's quality as a coach. He is still one of the best. The problem was and has always been the players. How can you play a counter attacking game with no wingers or players willing to dribble....without the right personnel in terms of attack, and the lazy players we have had in our squad, in retrospect, Jose never had a chance. Most of the players were the ones who also did not work hard with Van Gaal, in addition you add a guy like Pogba who is known for his lack of defensive activity in midfield, and you have the man utd you see here. Simeone would be no different. Jose's problem at utd has always been his mouth, i want him sacked because of the divisions he causes, his lack of respect for some of the values of the club and the media storm he brings, but when it comes down to it, we have some very lazy players in our squad.
Simone's is defensive but he's a tactical genius compared to Zidane.
It's not so much the 'style we need, it's the coaching. He would get Utd solid and playing good attacking football imo because he would have the budget and scope here.
It's not so much the 'style we need, it's the coaching. He would get Utd solid and playing good attacking football imo because he would have the budget and scope here.
Atletico has better players than us. They don't play attacking football. I can't watch another season of shit on stick football.
Lets be real, no one in your current squad can do any of that. They lack the drive the ambition the effort the passion to do that.
He the best man to stay back and defend.
No, he is not. He is the right manager for a club like Atletico, who are the perennial underdogs in their league and need him to pull above their weight. His football is effective but not very pleasing on the eye. He is what Jose was when he came on to the scene.
Anyway, I think his next job will be at Inter.
Anyway, I think his next job will be at Inter.
So was Jose's real
He wouldn't..
Altetico have a wealth of attacking talent.. Much better than us. Costa and Griezmann are world class. Yet they still don't play attacking football. Even against smaller sides. Saw them a number of times last year including against Qarabag, and the football they play is mind numbingly painful.
This is as silly as expecting Mourinho to come here and change the way he has always been. I made that mistake. He is not a bad manager. But an attacking one he is not.
Pogba showed that in a world cup winning team.
And the videos of him at tournament shows how inspirational he was to that.
They are still fighters within this team. But this management doesn't help one bit.
No criticism of playerz should finish without a qualifier that he has had over two years to make it his squad.
Simeone is a perfect manager for someone like Spurs or Atletico or the perennial underdogs, not for us.
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Klopp was the one we should've gone after
This. Atlético have a very good team, they’ve mostly played together for at least a couple of years yet still they almost never go into any game with an attacking approach. Even when they play teams like Eibar and Valladolid at home they usually defend with 8 players and try to absorb the pressure while hitting them on the counter. When they need to have the ball for a longer period of game they usually struggle to break down the opposition.
He would get us plenty of wins and probably reach a CL semifinal or final but people would want him gone after 3 games if they complained about Mourinho’s football.
He'd be the more or less obvious choice after Mourinho if we are to follow some pattern playing wise finally, people obviously don't want that so expect the same scenario as when we've switched from LVG to Mourinho, so from possession based football to what should've been a counter-attacking one. Simeone probably wouldn't want to come here anyway.
Just make sure you make a thread 'why there's no continuity' in two years or so where the board and everybody is berated for the lack of long-term vision.
Just make sure you make a thread 'why there's no continuity' in two years or so where the board and everybody is berated for the lack of long-term vision.
feck no. Thankfully, I don't think he will leave his stable job that he has to come here, even if we approached him.
No. Next manager has to give fans a reason to watch every United match outside of pure loyalty. Winning is entertaining and all that but the chances of not winning are far higher than the chances of actually winning enough to make up for mind-numbing football. And Simeone isn't even the serial winner that Mourinho used to be.
Noooo he's a younger Mourinho
Zidane for me. Goals galore and most of the time United win.
Simeone like Dyche and Tony Pulis, is a tactical genius.
Were you saying the same about Hazard et. al. when they downed tools under Mourinho?
Majority of the opinions on this forum are usually based on the last few games.
His football is awful. He is doing a great job, but not sure he is right for us.
Was just surprised at his opinion given that he is a Chelsea fan and I assume he's seen firsthand how bad Mourinho can make his players look.
You've also got to look at the sort of players we have in the squad, their personalities and whether they'd be a good tactical fit for Simeone. You also have to look at the culture of the club, its history and the general direction of our youth set up. Furthermore have a look at what our rivals are doing.
For me it is complete madness what the club has done post Fergie in terms of hiring back to back boring managers with zero reputation for fast-flowing attacking football. I think to gamble once on a Jose type figure post Fergie would have been fine, but to make a fourth appointment which you could put under the cautious negative bracket would be downright insane as if the way this club has been run recently isn't already reminiscent of a lunatic asylum.
There comes a time when 'win at all costs' mentality needs to be thrown out the window especially when you're not looking any closer to winning and when you're boring the shit out of the fans for 6 years in a row. Also whilst Simeone has undoubtedly overperformed with his club (considering the budget and their rivals), he's still been the least successful out of the top three spanish clubs - which tends to suggest there is a limitation to his style of play. It can make a club competitive, but it is not a winning style of football which can lead to periods of dominance which is what a club the size of United needs to be aspiring to.
There's no real wide play in Simeone's tactical philosophy, which again runs counter to United's philosophy. You could argue Poch also falls into this bracket (and I still don't appreciate how Spurs just consistently look pretty woeful in big games). Zizou too - though I would argue he lets his full-backs off the leash, and has experience of using wide-forwards like Bale and Ronaldo. All three are not ideal fits IMO but we are limited for choice at this moment in time - which means I think Zizou is probably the most safest option post Jose (as he's a proven winner and more importantly, I'd say his teams football is the most interesting to watch out of those three, plus can handle big club pressure/big egos/teams are proactive on big stage). The other option would be Jardim - whom many have said is also pragmatic, though he does seem like a proper 'coach' and if we can play anything like Monaco did in that UCL campaign - I'd be over the moon.
In an ideal world, we would appoint someone with a 'Cruyffian' tactical blueprint and put ourselves back on the right path towards modernisation but most of our rivals have appointed the best executioners of attacking football coaching... which means we don't have any obvious choices to my knowledge. The safe choice seems to be Zidane on a two year contract... unless of course we risk it all on say a Cantona, backed by attacking coaches who can help him out with training etc.
Thierry Henry is another left-field choice - has been getting coaching experience as an assistant manager at Belgium, playing a key role in improving likes of Lukaku and Hazard, assisting them in reaching third in World Cup. He's a EPL icon, the lads would love him (Pogba, Lukaku, Martial etc) and even though he's a total rookie, having been brought up by Wenger/Pep - he's guaranteed to want to play a slick, stylish type of game and he's a winner at every level of the game. Great talker and very charismatic. He's a rookie, but so were guys like Pep/Zidane - maybe he has the potential to explode.
Wenger might be a decent caretaker option, if we want someone to lay down some foundations of stylish football whilst we wait for a more ideal candidate. Maybe a year and a half maximum (though I wouldn't personally go with this option).
Marco Silva and the Wolves manager seem to have something about them - but probably too early to tell, how well they would translate on to the big stage just yet. They're also pragmatic, not sure if they're the full-flowing attacking kind of managers we want here but their sides are decent to watch.
For me I'd narrow it down to Henry/Cantona, Zidane, Jardim.
For me it is complete madness what the club has done post Fergie in terms of hiring back to back boring managers with zero reputation for fast-flowing attacking football. I think to gamble once on a Jose type figure post Fergie would have been fine, but to make a fourth appointment which you could put under the cautious negative bracket would be downright insane as if the way this club has been run recently isn't already reminiscent of a lunatic asylum.
There comes a time when 'win at all costs' mentality needs to be thrown out the window especially when you're not looking any closer to winning and when you're boring the shit out of the fans for 6 years in a row. Also whilst Simeone has undoubtedly overperformed with his club (considering the budget and their rivals), he's still been the least successful out of the top three spanish clubs - which tends to suggest there is a limitation to his style of play. It can make a club competitive, but it is not a winning style of football which can lead to periods of dominance which is what a club the size of United needs to be aspiring to.
There's no real wide play in Simeone's tactical philosophy, which again runs counter to United's philosophy. You could argue Poch also falls into this bracket (and I still don't appreciate how Spurs just consistently look pretty woeful in big games). Zizou too - though I would argue he lets his full-backs off the leash, and has experience of using wide-forwards like Bale and Ronaldo. All three are not ideal fits IMO but we are limited for choice at this moment in time - which means I think Zizou is probably the most safest option post Jose (as he's a proven winner and more importantly, I'd say his teams football is the most interesting to watch out of those three, plus can handle big club pressure/big egos/teams are proactive on big stage). The other option would be Jardim - whom many have said is also pragmatic, though he does seem like a proper 'coach' and if we can play anything like Monaco did in that UCL campaign - I'd be over the moon.
In an ideal world, we would appoint someone with a 'Cruyffian' tactical blueprint and put ourselves back on the right path towards modernisation but most of our rivals have appointed the best executioners of attacking football coaching... which means we don't have any obvious choices to my knowledge. The safe choice seems to be Zidane on a two year contract... unless of course we risk it all on say a Cantona, backed by attacking coaches who can help him out with training etc.
Thierry Henry is another left-field choice - has been getting coaching experience as an assistant manager at Belgium, playing a key role in improving likes of Lukaku and Hazard, assisting them in reaching third in World Cup. He's a EPL icon, the lads would love him (Pogba, Lukaku, Martial etc) and even though he's a total rookie, having been brought up by Wenger/Pep - he's guaranteed to want to play a slick, stylish type of game and he's a winner at every level of the game. Great talker and very charismatic. He's a rookie, but so were guys like Pep/Zidane - maybe he has the potential to explode.
Wenger might be a decent caretaker option, if we want someone to lay down some foundations of stylish football whilst we wait for a more ideal candidate. Maybe a year and a half maximum (though I wouldn't personally go with this option).
Marco Silva and the Wolves manager seem to have something about them - but probably too early to tell, how well they would translate on to the big stage just yet. They're also pragmatic, not sure if they're the full-flowing attacking kind of managers we want here but their sides are decent to watch.
For me I'd narrow it down to Henry/Cantona, Zidane, Jardim.
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Just like with our player recruitment, the right sort of managers are out there, you just need to find them and take a gamble. A gamble with a £2bn business is a big leap for the Glazers and Woodward who I think would much rather a safe pair of hands than taking a risk.
Ancelotti is the safe pair of hands unfortunately, but his time has passed. An even safer pair of hands is Mourinho.
What’s Paul Lambert up to these days?
Ancelotti is the safe pair of hands unfortunately, but his time has passed. An even safer pair of hands is Mourinho.
What’s Paul Lambert up to these days?
Just no. Nothing compares to Van Gaal.
Give the job to Zidane now. He will attract the best players and play good football.
I think Simeone would be the only option right now, his football may not be the best to watch but he will bring success to the club and doesn't have the baggage that Mourinho was certain to bring to the club when he came (and we are witnessing it now). Simeone seems to maintain a healthy atmosphere at the club and his players fight for him, while the same was said about Mourinho during his early years at Chelsea and Inter, the opposite was shown at Real and then Chelsea again.
My preferred option would have been Tuchel, but PSG nabbed him, or Naggelsmann, but Leipzeg have nabbed him. I don't see any other viable coaches who bring both an exciting brand of football, which us fans would like to see, and have shown potential to be successful at a high level.
My preferred option would have been Tuchel, but PSG nabbed him, or Naggelsmann, but Leipzeg have nabbed him. I don't see any other viable coaches who bring both an exciting brand of football, which us fans would like to see, and have shown potential to be successful at a high level.
I am not aware of what is a "Cruyffian tactical blueprint" or what does "modernization" mean as I more of a meat and potatoes kind of football supporter, but, and this might not be a popular opinion, I think our football had become stale a little before Moyes, and under the Sir Alex era. We were winning games and titles, and comfortably; however the joy of watching United play good football started diminishing in the last few years with the great man in-charge. We had good spells and played well in spurts; not consistently enough, imo. I remember browsing on my phone or checking out in the middle of games even before Moyes landed and managed to kill any joy of watching United.
So, yeah, I don't know what those fancy terms mean, but my ideal manager will be in the Pep/Klopp/Sarri mold, who is a coach first and a manager second. Who improves our football on the very basic level by showing his vision and making the players believe in it. I want to see some pace, some fast passing, football with verve and passion. Want to see us destroying teams and making hell for their defenses and goal keepers. I want someone who can bring that. Enough of this pragmatic shit that we have been playing for close to a decade.
Fancy terms aside, we are asking for the same thing basically. Cruyff believed in possession, but not the LVG kind and was much more attacking in nature. He's the archetypal attack is the best form of defence manager - far more attacking than even Fergie. Basically, high press, fast possession, width (stretching the play - making pitch as big as possible with the ball) and not over-coaching in the final third - but emphasis on positional interchange, overloading in areas in the pitch through constant use of overlaps etc. Basically Barca at their fast flowing best (which is very similar to how Klopp and Sarri set up). In the final third, you need to coach players, give them various solutions to a range of scenarios, but in the end you trust them to find the solutions themselves to some degree. LVG overcoached in final third, stripping players of individuality and Jose - zero input and no patterns of play at all it seems.
No
Simeone struggles quite badly to reinvent his team and still relies on the same core (Godin, Griezmann, Costa, Filipe Luis, Koke, Juanfran) with the additiona of some youngsters, who had a lot of time to get used to him (Saul, Thomas, Correa, Gimenez). Most of the established players, that he bought, didn't have a lasting impact: (Alderweireld), Mandzukic, Jackson, Vietto, Carrasco, Kranevitter, Cerci, Gameiro, Gaitan, Vrsaliko, Vitolo and Gelson Martins (he is new, but he'll fail). He struggles to adapt his tactics to his players. When he buys a new player he expects them to be a like-for-like replacement for someone else. Yet no player is exactly the same and this severly limits new players.
The character of the current United team is very different to the one of Atletico and I doubt that he is flexible enough to change his approach. There are very few players in this team, that would be able to do what he asks them to. Yet his transfer history is extremely mediocre even if you'd want him to build a new team from scratch. Additionally there is a huge risk that his own personality/culture would rub people (= his players, the fans, the press, team team around him) the wrong way.
So, no, Simeone is not the right man for United. If he leaves Atletico, he should go to Italy and try to re-build one of the fallen gigants of Italien football. He could be perfect for that, because he'd be the underdog again.
The character of the current United team is very different to the one of Atletico and I doubt that he is flexible enough to change his approach. There are very few players in this team, that would be able to do what he asks them to. Yet his transfer history is extremely mediocre even if you'd want him to build a new team from scratch. Additionally there is a huge risk that his own personality/culture would rub people (= his players, the fans, the press, team team around him) the wrong way.
So, no, Simeone is not the right man for United. If he leaves Atletico, he should go to Italy and try to re-build one of the fallen gigants of Italien football. He could be perfect for that, because he'd be the underdog again.
Does that mean we should get a 3rd defensive minded coach? This is not the Manchester United way! Any incoming manager needs to understand the history and traditions of this club. Any fan who thinks it’s ok to sit through a bore fest every week in pursuit of trophies needs to get their head evaluated
He’s bought them or had enough money and time to change them!
Counter attacking football? Is this why he played 5 in defence plus 2 defensive shields in front versus west ham?
Not sure that he would be that much different to Mourinho if he came to United.
HELL no! We need an all out attacking manager not a spanish version of Mourinho. Did you watch his team in the champions league last season?
I'd prefer we get a manager that would rather win 4-3 than try to defend a one goal lead for majority of the game
I'd prefer we get a manager that would rather win 4-3 than try to defend a one goal lead for majority of the game
God no, in some ways he's actually worse than Mourinho as well with embarrassing touchline antics. And they quite often have games against absolute shit where they struggle to get more than 2 shots on target.
I also think he's much better suited to being an under dog. Brilliant manager but not the right fit for us.
I also think he's much better suited to being an under dog. Brilliant manager but not the right fit for us.
You would have said the same about Pochettino if he didn't prove himself at Tottenham. By now (as United fans especially) we should know that big names doesn't always yield big success.
I dont think hes reactive at all. Atletico play a similar system and style against everyone. Its just defensive with counterattacks. But they are actually entertaining with their counterattacks.
Mourinho changes the team to make it more defensive against mid table and relegation threatened teams. If anything Simeone is more likely to play an extra attacking option in those conditions