He's not worse than Rooney was for the last 3-4 years of his Utd career.
He gets more stick than he deserves.
He gets more stick than he deserves.
Is Fred the worst regular starter for United in living memory?
- Thread starter PeteManic
- Start date
My guess is Rangnick isn't going to want to play him much unless he absolutely has to, though I guess he might be 100% sure we're buying a DM in January or the summer so developing someone for the role isn't high priority. Mobility and seemingly agility in midfield is prized in Rangnick ball and he's all about younger players generally anyways and we're going to need a backup #6 next year and in the future unless we buy 2 of them (which seems less likely, though I guess if we don't buy Rice and do buy an 38 we could also still spend less on a #6), so that's Fred, McTominay or VDB unless Rangnick falls in love with Garner or Galbraith or someone. I think Fred-McTominay or Fred-VDB or even Pogba in the 2 as he has played in a 2 for France at times are more likely.
Matic is 33, he's not been good for 2 years now and he's slow. I just don't see Rangnick bothering with him a ton apart from putting him out there to show what someone following his instructions looks like. He might still be a useful player for a mid-table side playing a system suiting him perfectly with some athletic partners around him, but I think that's about it at this stage.
Figuring out if Pogba should stay and play in a 2 if he and the club want it, if Fred-VDB as a pairing works or McTominay-VDB or just figuring out if McTominay is good enough to be our giant, young, no transfer fee backup #6 behind the new one we have to bring in would all be higher priorities if they looked like plausible ideas in training.
"It's his job" is a non argument. If he's doing his job/doing what he's supposed to be doing, then that's all that can be asked for. Going by your logic Ronaldo scoring goals should also get no credit because it's "his job". Stop parroting Roy Keane.
No. McTominay is the worst regular starter for us in recent memory.
I think Ralf will get the best out of him, he just needs to tidy up he’s passing and the positional mistakes he makes. For effort he’s been our best player on the pitch so a few tweaks and he’ll improve. He’s been better then McT but he doesn’t seem to get as much stick….?
Personally I think Fred is a decent footballer, quite useful in some roles. However, he's atracious in a defensive position and that's where he got his bad reputation. When he's asked to play the "ball chaser" role and is allowed to join attacks, he is consistently good. Just don't make him play CDM.
Good midfield play has always demanded a combination of skill, energy and tenacity, but nowadays it also needs awareness, a range of passing abilities, an ability to interchange roles, in particular to act as a second line for supporting the 'press' and a front-line 'out ball receiver' for relieving the 'press' of opponents and starting the transition from defence to attack.
In a way Fred is a throw back to the old midfielder who broke up opponents play and supported his own attackers, with simple either defence or attack mechanisms. Unfortunately he does not have the range of attributes required for the modern day midfielder... if he has, he has been keeping them well hidden. Also Fred is prone to stupendous 'gaff's that happen too often to be just bad luck!
In a way Fred is a throw back to the old midfielder who broke up opponents play and supported his own attackers, with simple either defence or attack mechanisms. Unfortunately he does not have the range of attributes required for the modern day midfielder... if he has, he has been keeping them well hidden. Also Fred is prone to stupendous 'gaff's that happen too often to be just bad luck!
Does more harm than good.
I think people are forgetting the days of Darren Gibson and Tom Cleverley far too quickly 
He works well in the more forward role,
He will always get criticised but his mother needs to take some of the blame for calling him Fred. If he was British then he would be given an easier time for sure.
He will always get criticised but his mother needs to take some of the blame for calling him Fred. If he was British then he would be given an easier time for sure.
Andreas Pereira of Ole’s first season and a half says hi, from his current place of hiding.
This place couldn't tell that Ole wasnt a good enough manager. Going to assume most opinions on Fred are wrong too.
Showing my age now but Ralph Milne bought by Fergie is the worst player I’ve seen in a red shirt.. Fred’s no where near the worst there’s plenty more.
Oh my, just brought back memories of Cleverly constantly pointing at his feet asking for the ball when he has 2 or 3 defenders on him.I think people are forgetting the days of Darren Gibson and Tom Cleverley far too quickly
Thing is Ronaldo is one of the best at scoring goals, Fred is average at best at what he does, and borderline amateur at what it’s supposed to not be his role, like ball control and passing.
What kind of delusional mind can watch that display and describe it as superb, motm or what not? Also so many on here blubbering about the first 20 minutes and you see here that’s not the case
You can point like some 3 good involvements in a pool of absolute dross.
He’s a mostly shite player (at this level) who has some particularity good attributes. I suspect Rangnick will play him more than not, but that’s out of necessity rather than choice. Fred is probably the least terrible option we have in there primarily because he can actually run.
He has a midfielder brain, he has some good ideas and decent awareness when on the ball, it's just he's poor technically.
McTominay on the other hand only sees what is in front of him, has no awareness and really more of a defender in midfield than an actual midfielder. Based on that I see Fred having a good career as a midfielder, while McTominay imo will stay here and will be used as a stop gap anywhere he's needed. A bit like a less injury prone Phil Jones.
Fred is the worst regular starter for United in living memory and an atrocious footballer. How people can't see that is baffling.>>>>>>>>--------------------------Truth----------------------------<<<<<<<<Fred is a brilliant player. A modern pressing midfielder with great energy, attitude and the stats back that up. Anyone who doesn't recognise that he's one of our best and most important players doesn't understand football.
Can't we all just agree to disagree on Fred for now and let's see how he get's on under the new manager?
Can't we all just agree to disagree on Fred for now and let's see how he get's on under the new manager?
Won us the game while playing out of position.What kind of delusional mind can watch that display and describe it as superb, motm or what not? Also so many on here blubbering about the first 20 minutes and you see here that’s not the case
You can point like some 3 good involvements in a pool of absolute dross.
That video was just all his lowlights from the match and his two goal contributions and a block thrown in.What kind of delusional mind can watch that display and describe it as superb, motm or what not? Also so many on here blubbering about the first 20 minutes and you see here that’s not the case
You can point like some 3 good involvements in a pool of absolute dross.
He made 53 passes in the match, ~80% of which were successful. Where were his 40 odd successful passes in the video? I'm not saying they're good stats, but what kind of delusional mind can watch that video and actually believe it was everything he done in the match
Just not true is it? Like you just ignore what other players do and overinflate Fred actions. Every Fred tackle is worth 2x Scott or Bruno I guess
https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=yFNewGWvR7gTu6Qps9-W1
EDIT: if you switch to per 90 Scott leads damn near every off ball stat
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Yes but that is because Fred has to do twice the work or something
Like standing on his own keeper’s foot for example. Giving the ball away in dangerous areas. Not taking players down when they’re counter attacking.
You need to read better and stop wasting everybody’s time. The poster clearly wrote all his pros and cons. The other passes were all sideways and backwards, as usual, it also does not include all of his hiding behind Arsenal players. But there you go, you started it.That video was just all his lowlights from the match and his two goal contributions and a block thrown in.
He made 53 passes in the match, ~80% of which were successful. Where were his 40 odd successful passes in the video? I'm not saying they're good stats, but what kind of delusional mind can watch that video and actually believe it was everything he done in the match
Great thread
That was pure accident.
I don't know about stats and stuff, as usually see this after the games. I also don't think Fred is gonna become the incarnate of Keane or scholes or such.
However I do watch UTD games and for me the TV doesn't always show players in the best light. Watching Fred live is different to watching Fred on TV
That said I think Fred had a decent game against Arsenal, overall. That is not based on the assists (or stats) but his overall play. So in most of our attacks Fred was either the furthest forward or next furthest forward. Likes of Rashy and Sancho often not in the picture.
Fred also got back very quickly and others were ambling back. He covers a lot of space which whilst good is also where some see him as messing up.
When the ball was on the left by Arsenal, Mct followed the ball/player/provided cover. Fred moved into the middle and covered. When the ball was on the right Fred did his job and followed the ball and the player and provided cover yet our middle was empty as Mct didn't cover. Just look at Arsenals second goal. Mct is just watching
People, including me, were wondering why rashy played on the right when Sancho is better there and rashy in the opposite side. Yet it can be viewed simply as rashy provides cover for likes of dalot and AWB in the way mct, greenwood and Sancho don't. Fred on the left does.
These are basics of football. The MF are there to provide cover if a defender gets forwards. They also provide cover if a front man is further back. For me often Free being out of position is more about him trying to cover too much ground. He isn't the only one. Just watch a few games where Varane played and was out if position. He wasn't out of position because he isn't aware or good at that (see previous displays with previous club) but he was trying to cover the ground Maguire wasn't making up.
I like most people was frustrated with Ronaldo and previously Bruno for taking shots when he should be looking to pass the ball. Which makes sense on paper but in reality we simply don't have likes of Sancho, Rashy or martial busting a gut to get into the opposition box. From memory only Ronaldo since signing and dvb have been in positions for a tap in from a save regularly when playing.
Hopefully with Ralf we will see a team dynamic that will seperate the good from the bad.
However I do watch UTD games and for me the TV doesn't always show players in the best light. Watching Fred live is different to watching Fred on TV
That said I think Fred had a decent game against Arsenal, overall. That is not based on the assists (or stats) but his overall play. So in most of our attacks Fred was either the furthest forward or next furthest forward. Likes of Rashy and Sancho often not in the picture.
Fred also got back very quickly and others were ambling back. He covers a lot of space which whilst good is also where some see him as messing up.
When the ball was on the left by Arsenal, Mct followed the ball/player/provided cover. Fred moved into the middle and covered. When the ball was on the right Fred did his job and followed the ball and the player and provided cover yet our middle was empty as Mct didn't cover. Just look at Arsenals second goal. Mct is just watching
People, including me, were wondering why rashy played on the right when Sancho is better there and rashy in the opposite side. Yet it can be viewed simply as rashy provides cover for likes of dalot and AWB in the way mct, greenwood and Sancho don't. Fred on the left does.
These are basics of football. The MF are there to provide cover if a defender gets forwards. They also provide cover if a front man is further back. For me often Free being out of position is more about him trying to cover too much ground. He isn't the only one. Just watch a few games where Varane played and was out if position. He wasn't out of position because he isn't aware or good at that (see previous displays with previous club) but he was trying to cover the ground Maguire wasn't making up.
I like most people was frustrated with Ronaldo and previously Bruno for taking shots when he should be looking to pass the ball. Which makes sense on paper but in reality we simply don't have likes of Sancho, Rashy or martial busting a gut to get into the opposition box. From memory only Ronaldo since signing and dvb have been in positions for a tap in from a save regularly when playing.
Hopefully with Ralf we will see a team dynamic that will seperate the good from the bad.
You can pick out his bad moments that led to no goals conceded. Or you could pick out his good moments which led to two of our goals. Without Fred on the pitch we lose or draw that game.What kind of delusional mind can watch that display and describe it as superb, motm or what not? Also so many on here blubbering about the first 20 minutes and you see here that’s not the case
You can point like some 3 good involvements in a pool of absolute dross.
Yes with 10 men we probably lose or draw that game.
Some of the most entertaining threads involve players who require a nuanced understanding of football to recognize their contributions. Keep it going lads
Respect our players. Grow up.
Show me a midfielder who runs as much as Fred for consecutive games and is still one of our better players .
man runs like mad at Villareal and chelsea and people still bitching when he misplaces the ball at home all in the same week playing every 2-3 days.
man runs like mad at Villareal and chelsea and people still bitching when he misplaces the ball at home all in the same week playing every 2-3 days.
Sends shivers down your spine doesn’t it
Bounces off him? That’s harsh. It’s a nicely measured pass over the Arsenal attacker that nearly led to a goal for us. Also, if you’re going to show every mistake then I think it is only fair to show everything he does well, including the simple things because they’re things that someone like Pogba struggles with consistently and are a big part of playing in midfield.
But he did nothing special there. Like i said i omitted most of the simple passes - only added mistakes, tackles and great passes
I believe in a well coached team which presses as a team and not individuals Fred could become a great asset.
As long as he's kept to his strengths and the other players pick up the weaknesses in his game he could be one of the first names on the teamsheet
As long as he's kept to his strengths and the other players pick up the weaknesses in his game he could be one of the first names on the teamsheet
Ralph Milne? Colin Gibson?
I disagree with you. And I think this is an example of the negative bias against him. He reacts first to the second ball on the corner and then plays a deft lobbed pass over the Arsenal attacker with his weak foot which leads to a chance. I’m not saying it’s special but it’s certainly worthy of documenting if all the mistakes are shown. And also, as I said, the simple passes he makes should be shown too as it’s an important part of his role and something not all more talented players can do effectively. Also, if you felt that that bit of play was ok to leave out, then I reckon there’s other valuable bits that were too.
Theres a myth that Fred can’t pass to save his life, so leaving bits like that out only helps to perpetuate it.
"It's his job" is a non argument. If he's doing his job/doing what he's supposed to be doing, then that's all that can be asked for. Going by your logic Ronaldo scoring goals should also get no credit because it's "his job". Stop parroting Roy Keane.
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I think keane said DDGs job was to save shots...as a goalkeeper. Ronaldos job is to make attempts on goal, just so happens he's exceptional at that
so if the odd effort goes astray it's easily forgivable. Fred on the other hand, his job is to tackle, pass, press etc. Just so happens he is spectacularly dreadful at passing, couldn't tackle a fish supper in a genuine 50/50 and yea he can press but even at that it's easy to see he presses too enthusiastically often walking into a trap and leaving big spaces. All the effort required to be fair but it's hardly enough
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I think keane said DDGs job was to save shots...as a goalkeeper. Ronaldos job is to make attempts on goal, just so happens he's exceptional at that
so if the odd effort goes astray it's easily forgivable. Fred on the other hand, his job is to tackle, pass, press etc. Just so happens he is spectacularly dreadful at passing, couldn't tackle a fish supper in a genuine 50/50 and yea he can press but even at that it's easy to see he presses too enthusiastically often walking into a trap and leaving big spaces. All the effort required to be fair but it's hardly enough
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