They do have different sensibilities in that part of the world as we are constantly reminded.
Is Garnacho about to be "Cavanied"? | No
- Thread starter duffer
- Start date
So because some people sometimes make racist comparisons between black people and gorillas, that means Garnacho must’ve been doing so as well? Got it.
It isn’t something I’d post myself, simply because I know what people are like. But can we all stop being offended on other peoples behalf for a second, and put this into perspective? It’s really weird to actually think he’d be doing this maliciously.
It isn’t something I’d post myself, simply because I know what people are like. But can we all stop being offended on other peoples behalf for a second, and put this into perspective? It’s really weird to actually think he’d be doing this maliciously.
I’m not saying it wasn’t a silly thing to do. The fact we’re discussing it proves it was a silly thing to do. If he’d gone with the bicep emoji instead there’d be zero drama. So he did feck up. I’m not denying that.
The one and only point I’m making with my last few posts is that it is obvious there was no racist intent behind what he did.
Well FA set a precedent with Cavani didn't they? On getting offended on behalf of others.
Which was also daft. I feel they just go whichever way the wind is blowing though - if this gets lots of attention, I doubt they’ll ignore it.
What a ridiculous comment. The level of discourse on this forum is a joke.
And with Barnardo Silva.
Its just idiotic but this is what United players seem to do it appears.
It's like a contest to who can be the dumbest
I'm sure there's no racial intent but that's not the point. It is stereotypical and will be taken as such.
There also no point defending it as it's obvious you can't do stuff like this as you should know how it will be taken.
It's like a contest to who can be the dumbest
I'm sure there's no racial intent but that's not the point. It is stereotypical and will be taken as such.
There also no point defending it as it's obvious you can't do stuff like this as you should know how it will be taken.
I don't get this mentality. Surely by saying he's being racist (towards his friend and teammate) by posting pictures of a gorilla, it's the people saying he's racist who are actually being racist. They are essentially saying that black people look like gorillas...
In Bilva's case, at least there was no 3-game ban and some kind of context was taken into consideration in the punishment. In Cavani's case, the post was not even in English.
It's kind of ironic that you invoke context, yet conveniently ignore hundreds of years of context of that symbol and idea being negatively associated with black people. Are we doing context or not? You can't pick and choose and then be surprised when people minds immediately go to the centuries-old practice rather than the newfangled text speak, which is a notoriously unclear medium of communication anyway.
No, this is a straw man and no one is suggesting that. Still, it's best avoided and he shouldn't be complaining about any punishment coming his way. He needs to be smarter.
I don't think he intended it either. But for certain measures a strict liability approach is taken to avoid and/or stamp out the questionable behavior. You can debate whether it is warranted in this context or not.
To take it out of a race context, the idiot United support who wore that "97 Not Enough" shirt, was also treated with strict liability. I myself thought he was referring to their 97-point season in which they failed to win the title, because I had always associated the Hillsborough disaster with 96.
It's clearly a storm in a teacup but you'd think the club would have taken steps to educate players on which language/emoticons can be taken out of context on social media after the Cavani affair. It'd take 5 minutes to do so.
No need to go into bird lawyer territory here. Dont' think anyone actually said or thinks he was being racist, but the shortest answer is that kids could see it and imitate it thinking its now ok and a normal thing to do.
Don't say this, you'll be accused of writing in the daily mail comment section.
That's possibly the thickest post I've read on here.
Which is why he deleted it in 5 mins.
But then you have to consider what is the visual colloquialism of a gorilla in context to sending it to someone ? As another poster highlighted a bicep emoji has connotation of strength, the fire, thumbs up, or wink emoji's conveys a positive response in support of something. I've yet to come across there being a norm in this social media world we occupy where the gorilla emoji is used adequately.
I don't think this means racial intent from the player because of my understanding of that players character and the situation (young teenager and it's his teammate) but it makes you question the said players intelligence.
I agree it’s best avoided - but only because you’ve got weapons on twitter who’ll say you’re racially abusing your teammate.
Urgh, I feel dirty just having you respond to me with that nonsense.
I dunno, I mean, if it's an opposition fan or player who is doing it to antagonise then it's reasonable to say they are being racist because they are equating the black player to a gorilla.
If it's his friend and teammate, and he's clearly not posted anything in a negative way, and assuming Onana didn't find it offensive, then what you're essentially saying is "yeah but he can't post a picture of a black man and a gorilla because I'm racist and think that's the same".
MUFC's Response Team is clearly on point but, as we all know, the internet never forgets. Hopefully the FA do the sensible thing.
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Garnacho, bless the little lad, is thicker than Luke Shaw’s ass
Yeah, lets suspend a 19 year old. Let's hang him out to dry and ruin his reputation over what wasnt intended and wasnt deemed offensive to the person it was directed towards. fecking stupid game this is.
How’s the progress going on those 115 charges against City?
And that should be the end of it…but it won’t be! What a bloody stupid world we live in. Let’s be honest it’s these kind of conversations that lead to resentment, particularly for the less educated amongst us. So many real issues to deal with without this shite.
I wold be amazed if he is charged over this.
I can see a possible use for AI here (seriously):
Top level football players are largely idiots (sorry, but that's the truth: they're ignorant as feck on the whole).
Let's say United make it club policy that no player can post anything on social media (official/verified accounts) before running it through a certain "filter" first. Ideally, this "filter" should be an intelligent human being, but I can see the logistical challenges involved in having an intelligent human being assigned to every player in the squad, being on call 24 hours, etc.
So - use AI. Some kind of app. Shouldn't be that hard to program an app that will a) receive your input, b) deem whether it contains anything potentially offensive and c) post the input on your social media account if it doesn't contain anything potentially offensive (if it does, the input won't be posted, and the AI will suggest an alternative phrasing or whatever).
"You have chosen to praise your black teammate by using a gorilla emoji. This is not advisable. Below is a list of emojis you can select that would convey the same message in an advisable manner."
ETA
Actually, let's see what AI (GPT-4) will say if you ask:
"Could it be considered racist if you use a gorilla emoji to praise a black person?"
Top level football players are largely idiots (sorry, but that's the truth: they're ignorant as feck on the whole).
Let's say United make it club policy that no player can post anything on social media (official/verified accounts) before running it through a certain "filter" first. Ideally, this "filter" should be an intelligent human being, but I can see the logistical challenges involved in having an intelligent human being assigned to every player in the squad, being on call 24 hours, etc.
So - use AI. Some kind of app. Shouldn't be that hard to program an app that will a) receive your input, b) deem whether it contains anything potentially offensive and c) post the input on your social media account if it doesn't contain anything potentially offensive (if it does, the input won't be posted, and the AI will suggest an alternative phrasing or whatever).
"You have chosen to praise your black teammate by using a gorilla emoji. This is not advisable. Below is a list of emojis you can select that would convey the same message in an advisable manner."
ETA
Actually, let's see what AI (GPT-4) will say if you ask:
"Could it be considered racist if you use a gorilla emoji to praise a black person?"
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Very sound arguments.
To be clear, I'm not excusing the United fan and was my initial impression. It's only a few years ago that the additional victim was recognized and I wasn't exactly tracking it. The punishment was rightly deserved. It was an analog with a different context to demonstrate the point about something approaching strict liability applying to certain offenses regardless of intent, particularly when doubt can exist as to intent. The seriousness of the offense will dictate the standard of liability.
You can quibble with whether or not that standard of liability is appropriate in this context, but what you cannot do is ignore the context and reasons for why people would take umbrage at gorilla imagery in any way being associated with a black person, regardless of intent. If that makes you feel dirty, I recently became aware of an excellent exfoliating bath scrub I can recommend you.
I don't particularly feel strongly about whether Garnacho is punished or not, but I won't feel sorry for him if he is.
2 game ban for Onana for trying to influence impartial FA.
I’m so glad he’s come out and said this. Too many out there that like to virtue signal and get offended on behalf of others. Context is everything.
Idiotic that this is even news worthy. They are friends and it was as clear as day what he meant. And it's the usual suspects that get offended by bs like that and try to create an issue.
Knowing how sensitive the FA is, this is just plainly stupid. He obviously meant no harm, but he didn’t think about misinterpretations.
On the other hand going back into Cavani, his sanction was Outrageous and xenophobic. Here in Latin America we commonly call dark skinned people (not necessarily black, tanned will suffice) as negro or negrito meaning no offense (and they take no offense). Heck there are people who call everyone negro regardless of their skin tone. The FA completely failed to understand a different culture.
On the other hand going back into Cavani, his sanction was Outrageous and xenophobic. Here in Latin America we commonly call dark skinned people (not necessarily black, tanned will suffice) as negro or negrito meaning no offense (and they take no offense). Heck there are people who call everyone negro regardless of their skin tone. The FA completely failed to understand a different culture.
Thankfully he made an statement. What Garnacho meant was to compliment Onana, not to offend him, and Andre clearly understood it.
Great tweet.
Although I do wonder if keeping schtum and hoping everyone forgets about it might have been a better idea?
It has little bearing on what FA will do though.
This is a topic that won't die on its own unfortunately.Great tweet.
Although I do wonder if keeping schtum and hoping everyone forgets about it might have been a better idea?
So you're agreeing with lsd then? If the level of discourse on this forum is "a joke," as you believe, then it is indeed (according to you) at a similar level to that of the Daily Mail.
So what animals are you allowed to compare people to then?
Good for him to come out with that.
Feck the FA. The whole Cavani situation was a good indicator of what they are.