He’s not Ronaldo. The sooner he realises this, the sooner he becomes a better player. He’s trying too hard to emulate his game on Ronaldo.
Is it time to burst “Rashy’s” bubble?
- Thread starter Raees
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I'm not part of this conversation but I just want to point out that it's rhetorical, not rhethorical. It was just triggering me and now I feel cleansed.
To be fair it us unfair for me to make that comparison
Yeah, I wonder if someone like Pep would be beneficial for Rashford. The work he's done on Sterling is superb.
Yes it is and it stems from him being young and rash. The problem goes much higher.
I'm not a negatiive fan by caf standards, but one thing I would say we know about this group of players is there is a complete lack of resillience there (even worse is that I dont think you can coach that as its a natural trait). Ole couldnt arrest the slide last year and if one develops this year I couldn't see him being able to turn it around. I also think Ole needs to shoulder some of the blame here as well as the Glazers, I genuinely feel he was happy with the squad before the season started. I was too until the Milan game when I actually realised that going into a season with a team full of kids might not be the best idea.
That being said, I think we need to end the witch-hunting and put the torches and pitchforks away. Yes Rashford is inconsistent and needs to work on his game, but people abusing him isnt going to change that, be it telling him how crap he is on social media or going further and racially abusing him.
Sterling? Of course he did when he was 21. The same age as Rashford is now.
Rashford along with Martial have all the talent in the world to become world class players. Yes, they may dip occasionally because they are not the world generational superstar (Messi) and have to wait until they have matured/in their peak years to reach the consistency required.
This is what we do as a club and have done since and before the 70's when I first became a fan and identified with our core mission, we take talented players and nurture them.
We may not be back on top for a few years or at least until our patience and nurturing pays off and fourth this year is a great target.
Maybe some might struggle to be a supporter if winning is their only reason - and please don't tell me that you think 6 years is too long without the PL title. We have been 29 years and then 26 years and yet still plenty to enjoy if you enjoy the process rather than just the winning.
Doesn’t really change his age. It’s not his fault we’re relying on him.
I hate the free kicks but I think he's been decent.
Excellent at some parts of the game and mediocre at others. Swings between a threat and journeyman constantly. If he has space in front of him, that's when he excels.
Of course it's normal for people to expect more from Rashford comparing to other youth players, given the money he is on and experience he has gained over the past 4 seasons.
He needs to take responsibility, there shouldn't be any more excuses of him not being able to deliver
I understand your perspective and I actually do think one of Martial and Rashford will go on to be a top player but the patience argument is suspicious to me because for every young player that is nurtured to a top level many more fall way below the standard and there is a point where you have to say this isn't working. It is also a convenient excuse for the Glazernomics model to continue where an incompetent banker is in charge of our recruitment. Lingard is probably a good example of how the argument for patience can backfire, he's 27 now and he's not at the level the club should aspire to be. Players like Jones, Evans and Smalling were promising ones for the future a few years back, two of which are approaching testimonial years and it's been a horrible mistake keeping these guys.
The thing that sticks out for me also is the utter failure of Arsenal's project a few years back (post invincibles) and they're patience with players like Walcott, Wilshere, Diaby and many others. Every year their fans had the same division between the ones that said 'we need investment' and others that said 'next year will be different as the players will be more experienced'. It never worked for them and they've lost their top 4 spot for the past three seasons. The danger is we could go down the same path if we're not careful.
There's a player in there, I honestly think he could do a Sterling and become world class after years of inconstancy. He needs a stronger manager. The selfishness he shows is ridiculous. Some of the efforts from range are just plain stupid.
I hate to say it, but if Pep managed him he'd become a much much better player.
I hate to say it, but if Pep managed him he'd become a much much better player.
When has he been even close to scoring with his free kicks last time? They are bad.
This is it. He needs good coaching.
Was the second one not close yesterday?
How many young players are on the wages hes on? I don't like to get into salaries but for what he demanded, you'd expect him to be the finished product.
Martial was a golden boy winner and Rashford a runner up - so I do think these 2 have far better quality/potential than Walcott (much as I like him). Wilshere and Diaby were class and both just undone by injury which I think is really, really sad and unfortunate and I would be devastated if the same happened happened to Martial or Rashford.
Evans was a fantastic player for us (and even last season big clubs were looking to buy him) and Smalling as well- it is not his fault that the goal posts have changed and everybody wants a ball playing CB. Jones was an absolute beast when he came from Blackburn - good enough to play in midfield for them and in the front of the back 4 for us on occasions. Again undone by injuries which have robbed him of a yard of pace and the chance to fulfill his massive potential.
Arsenal's problems were because they didn't really spend money when they had it because Wenger was very prudent especially given the cost of their new stadium and the desire to stay free from credit.
Our Managers here have been backed financially - it took more than lose change to buy Pogba for then a record fee for a UK club. Martial (44m), Shaw (30m - record fee for a teenager at the time), Fred (52m) and Sanchez they forked out a massive contract for him so he would join us. The recent fees this term also show huge backing. I don't get the Glazer out comments. If they were like Mike Ashley then that would be a problem but they are not. We tried to sign a few players but everyone has money now and a 'project' so we have to share now! Even Pep did not get all that he wanted.
I don't see the problem with Lingard. He is a full international and a player that coaches seem to like/pick. He is a late developer and hopefully he will pick up form again and all will be forgotten. It happens every year that a player gets singled out when things go wrong. He will be OK and if he can not recover then he will fall down the pecking order and be replaced. The brutality of playing professional football.
Not really. I dont think so? Pogbas was much closer.
He is 21 .. give him a break..
This is one of my worst ever threads on the Caf, absolutely despicable that we want to bring one of our young players, an incredible talent and one who will likely be a huge part of our squad for years to come, “down a peg or two”.
Disgraceful.
Disgraceful.
World class?
As for becoming a much better player under Pep, you could say that pretty much about our entire team (except possibly Smalling). Cos you know, he’s a way better manager than Ole.
I honestly do not blame him or Martial or James. The blame goes towards Ole and Ed.
I don't think Mourinho was right for us and he made questionable signings, but there are certain things, he was doing what was right and using Martial and Rashford on Left Wing as a competition of each other was one of them. It resulted in both players playing out of their skin until he signed Sanchez and it all went tits up.
Similarly signing a center forward and knowing he could not rely on Rashford or Martial as the main man was another wise decision, although his choice was center forward (Lukaku) is not something i agree with, however his thought process was correct.
Ole and Ed has now put us in a position where are soo much reliant on young players who continiously blow hot and cold. And above all they know whatever performances they will put up we don't have any competition for them whatsoever.
In any top club which is not run by morons and a yes man manager, we would not be relying on Martial and Rashford as starters atleast not both. One of them should start and the other must be used as a substitute to come on amd make impact against tired legs.
Our situation becomes even morr laughable and sad when we not only have to rely on these two but Jessy Lingard whose most important attribute is running and he is playing in the most important position in attack, which is meant to create chances and link with midfield. Furthermore, we have another young championship player who is extremely raw and needs atleast a season or two right now. Lastly our impact sub and most attacking option off the bench is a 17 year old kid.
No wonder we are hit and miss in attack. Our problem is we have all seen our heydays with Ronaldo, Ruud and Rvp like finishers where we are looking at expected goals and chances to make ourselves feel better and think sooner or later we will score th and climb up the table.
However we must realize that this is the level of these players and that is how they are going to perform each week.
We must be ready and it should not surprise us if our attackers miss one on ones, or miss penalties or if they choose the wrong option time and time again or miss or overhit passes because thats what experienced players are for and the young guns complement them, rather here, we have a team full of young players and jessy Lingard in attack and we expect them to be ruthless and efficient in attack.
I don't think Mourinho was right for us and he made questionable signings, but there are certain things, he was doing what was right and using Martial and Rashford on Left Wing as a competition of each other was one of them. It resulted in both players playing out of their skin until he signed Sanchez and it all went tits up.
Similarly signing a center forward and knowing he could not rely on Rashford or Martial as the main man was another wise decision, although his choice was center forward (Lukaku) is not something i agree with, however his thought process was correct.
Ole and Ed has now put us in a position where are soo much reliant on young players who continiously blow hot and cold. And above all they know whatever performances they will put up we don't have any competition for them whatsoever.
In any top club which is not run by morons and a yes man manager, we would not be relying on Martial and Rashford as starters atleast not both. One of them should start and the other must be used as a substitute to come on amd make impact against tired legs.
Our situation becomes even morr laughable and sad when we not only have to rely on these two but Jessy Lingard whose most important attribute is running and he is playing in the most important position in attack, which is meant to create chances and link with midfield. Furthermore, we have another young championship player who is extremely raw and needs atleast a season or two right now. Lastly our impact sub and most attacking option off the bench is a 17 year old kid.
No wonder we are hit and miss in attack. Our problem is we have all seen our heydays with Ronaldo, Ruud and Rvp like finishers where we are looking at expected goals and chances to make ourselves feel better and think sooner or later we will score th and climb up the table.
However we must realize that this is the level of these players and that is how they are going to perform each week.
We must be ready and it should not surprise us if our attackers miss one on ones, or miss penalties or if they choose the wrong option time and time again or miss or overhit passes because thats what experienced players are for and the young guns complement them, rather here, we have a team full of young players and jessy Lingard in attack and we expect them to be ruthless and efficient in attack.
The problem is I'm sure Ed and Ole tried to bring in a striker even before Lukaku was sold, I don't think they're that stupid or reactionary (although I'm sure some will disagree with me on this). I just think it's much harder to bring in quality players to United than it was in the past, and the rumors of Pogba leaving most certainly didn't help making the club an attractive proposition for any player. A guy like Timo Werner would have been great to have, or Wissam Ben Yedder. But one resigned with RB Leipzig and the other went to Monaco, a club that was almost relegated last season.
Martial looks like he will recover from his knock, but that's not sustainable to depend on the two of them throughout the whole season. As useless as Sanchez may have been, he's still another body that could play up front that's going out the door. It's going to be a busy January 2020 at Manchester.
Martial looks like he will recover from his knock, but that's not sustainable to depend on the two of them throughout the whole season. As useless as Sanchez may have been, he's still another body that could play up front that's going out the door. It's going to be a busy January 2020 at Manchester.
I’ve already replied to the same question. It’s fair enough to question it re wage but that’s nothing to do with his age. More A general United issue.
Rashford is a very good talent mate. Under Pep I can see him bordering world class. It's all about confidence and direction for young forwards.World class?
As for becoming a much better player under Pep, you could say that pretty much about our entire team (except possibly Smalling). Cos you know, he’s a way better manager than Ole.
Under the right manager he could definitely become one of the best forwards in the world.
If his wages do not count then surely his appearances / experience count as our expectations of him comparing with other young United players?
There is no hiding...he needs to start performing this season
In your opinion... Where can we get the best of Rashford? As LW or ST? What's his best position?
ST
He's 21 so i think he takes some seriously unfair criticism, hes got a good few seasons yet before he should be called a finished product or anywhere near his peak, so he needs to be given every opportunity to feck up and learn, fact is we shouldn't be reliant on a 21 year old in the first place so only those above need to shoulder this responsibility. Cant help but think an older striker would do wonders to have around him (i get we have Ole but he's got a lot on his plate).
That said i think he needs a fire lighting under him at times and some serious coaching around when and when not to release the ball, he's like the young pacy lad in my 9aside team, fast as feck, can dribble but never ever makes the correct choice when releasing the ball, its so fecking annoying i just want to drag him to one side and explain why the move broke down and why our team is now under pressure as a result of his gormless or totally non-existant thought process.
That said i think he needs a fire lighting under him at times and some serious coaching around when and when not to release the ball, he's like the young pacy lad in my 9aside team, fast as feck, can dribble but never ever makes the correct choice when releasing the ball, its so fecking annoying i just want to drag him to one side and explain why the move broke down and why our team is now under pressure as a result of his gormless or totally non-existant thought process.
ST
Too much sentimentality on this forum. I think that we can all agree that when Rashford first came into the premier league squad he looked like he had great potential. He was fast, wiling to take on defenders and could unleash a fierce shot to goal. He still has potential but he is now becoming over-rated. Central strikers tend to be two-footed and can provide at least an occasional headed goal.
Rashford seems to shy away from using his Left foot and has a clear aversion to headers, at least outside the box. Also his dribbling is unreliable.
I would prefer that we stick with the tried and proven under Fergie, that is use our money and status to buy a proven top striker from within the league. This is something we had done from RVP all the way back to Cantona. Although it would be a nice narrative, top clubs do not tend to push homegrown players with potential into such an important position. We should have sent him out on loan and bought at least one top striker. Look at the other big teams in Europe they buy the talented strikers, they do not risk their exalted position on sentiments.
If you don't think that Lukaku was good enough then we should have gone all out for Kane or even Vardy.
Mind you I am quite happy with Martial as our No9, although i would prefer him in a fluid trio of strikers, but I know that it wont be long before fans start making noise for rashford to go central.
Rashford seems to shy away from using his Left foot and has a clear aversion to headers, at least outside the box. Also his dribbling is unreliable.
I would prefer that we stick with the tried and proven under Fergie, that is use our money and status to buy a proven top striker from within the league. This is something we had done from RVP all the way back to Cantona. Although it would be a nice narrative, top clubs do not tend to push homegrown players with potential into such an important position. We should have sent him out on loan and bought at least one top striker. Look at the other big teams in Europe they buy the talented strikers, they do not risk their exalted position on sentiments.
If you don't think that Lukaku was good enough then we should have gone all out for Kane or even Vardy.
Mind you I am quite happy with Martial as our No9, although i would prefer him in a fluid trio of strikers, but I know that it wont be long before fans start making noise for rashford to go central.
In many ways he cost us the game again. Needs to really stop believing his own hype. This isn't the Rashford show and he needs to realize there are 10 other players with important roles in the team.
When he takes a 30 yard show like he does it is just disrespectful to the teammates. Unless he can score them even once in say 15 attempts, why bother?
When he takes a 30 yard show like he does it is just disrespectful to the teammates. Unless he can score them even once in say 15 attempts, why bother?
Do you not think Sterling is world class? Because Rashford has a better starting point than he did. If Rashford had Pep as his coach I'd be surprised if he didn't become world class.World class?
As for becoming a much better player under Pep, you could say that pretty much about our entire team (except possibly Smalling). Cos you know, he’s a way better manager than Ole.
I don't think even Pep is making the likes of Shaw, Lingard and Young world class dude
Dunno why you felt the need to show how much of a top red you are. United bring through youths but not at the expense of success. We are not Arsenal under Wenger. I recall Giuseppe Rossi (arguably our most talented player in academy for past 20 years) didn't get the chance here to mature and neither did Pique, simply because there were better options. United first team is not and has never been an academy. There has always been a need to compete so the players have to deliver despite their age. I am not so certain neither Rashford or Martial will become world class but I am happy to have the both of them. My concern with Rashy is that he has shown no progress over 3 seasons and is still doing the same stupid shit so perhaps he needs better coaching.
But he's been playing for years. He has way more experience than players older than him. He should be far more consistent in his performances by now I feel.
I don:t think he's rubbish or whatever nonsense others are saying, but he now has no more excuses. He's been playing long enough and is now pretty much one of 3 main attacking players in our team along with Martial (no excuses either) and Pogba (but playing deeper it seems)
Absolutely. And I think we should learn from that. That level of excellence and intelligence and in fact, maturity as a football team is something you want your manager to bring. At City everyone seems to know the right thing to do in most situations and if they deviate from that and take a random /daft/glory option, it's an anomaly and possibly frowned upon. Which is one reason why they play like such a strong collective. It's a culture thing.
I'd say it isn't that we aren't mentally together as a team. We definitely are. But as a principal /methodology our players play in isolation much more than theirs do. No wonder we rely on individual brilliance so much. Chasing a game, we want Rashford or Martial to take their man on and score a wonder goal. Chasing a goal, City will carve you up through 4 players making 4 good decisions.
Obviously it isn't always one way or the other. We also play collectively strong football sometimes. The goal against Wolves was excellent. But it has to permeate the way you play all the time.
He's actually been overall quite poor for a while rather than just inconsistent.
I don't understand this no excuses business. Firstly it's as if you're penalising them for starting their careers well. Plenty of players peak between 25 and 28. Secondly, the peformance of any forward is impacted by the creativity of the team behind them. And Rashford (and Martial) have sadly not got a team behind them that creates a lot for them.
If its true that they've put him on some sort of high-intensity Cristiano Ronaldo MKII training plan then it would explain a lot.
The shooting is a joke. The freekicks are bizarre. He's not playing to the best of his abilities based on his strengths and weaknesses, its as if he's trying to emulate someone who has an entirely different skillset.
He needs to base his game largely off of runs in behind the defence. He's excellent at them. Rotate with Martial, make those runs and try to score 1v1's.
Seeing him run at opposing defenders is fairly painful. He's almost guaranteed to either get tackled, make the wrong decision or just forget about the ball when he's trying to dribble.
The shooting is a joke. The freekicks are bizarre. He's not playing to the best of his abilities based on his strengths and weaknesses, its as if he's trying to emulate someone who has an entirely different skillset.
He needs to base his game largely off of runs in behind the defence. He's excellent at them. Rotate with Martial, make those runs and try to score 1v1's.
Seeing him run at opposing defenders is fairly painful. He's almost guaranteed to either get tackled, make the wrong decision or just forget about the ball when he's trying to dribble.
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