I'm not sure I agree with this. Martial and Shaw were fantastic for us under LvG. Now that we have a different Manager they're not good. Think it's more a case of Jose can't/won't utilise them in the same way as LvG did. Like how he's struggling with Rashford while LvG got him playing brilliantly and just like how Jose has managed to improve Rojo (it works both ways). Ultimately it's up to Jose to motivate and inspire his troops to reach the levels of performance we know they can achieve and he's failing with some of the players.
Is Mou still 'The Special One' for you all?
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Was looking for this photo (from the game this weekend) and found a bunch of similar ones from his time at Chelsea. He really likes Pulis. Bonded by a mutual hatred of Arsene Wenger?
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I love Jose and think he is a fantastic manager.
However a lot of his aura has diminished.
However a lot of his aura has diminished.
Jose is by far the best manager you could possibly have at the moment imo - He is a proven winner.
I think the criticisms are a bit pathetic to be honest. Anyone can see we've improved and the reasons why we still fall short. I mean the only thing he's fallen short of is the idiots expecting us to compete for the title suddenly. Challenging for top 4 and doing well in the cups is exactly what i expected.
If we're in the same situation this time next year then it would be fair to start to question but not on his first season ffs.
If we're in the same situation this time next year then it would be fair to start to question but not on his first season ffs.
I reserve my judgement til next season.
I won't be surprised if this is his last coaching job. One thing he's always been is pretty self aware of his own and his team's limitations - so if he feels his time is up as an elite coach, I can't see him hanging around too after.
And lets be honest, if he can't get it together here with our budget and managerial freedom/power he's not really going to get it together anywhere. No excuses now.
And lets be honest, if he can't get it together here with our budget and managerial freedom/power he's not really going to get it together anywhere. No excuses now.
My opinion on him hasnt changed much since he started here. He still looks like the best guy available but at the same time he is clearly diminished.
I said before he joined that what made SAF so special wasnt the heights he achieved but the fact he managed to sustain those heights for such a long time. Mourinho achieved similar heights to SAF, a number of managers do, but very few of those managers are able to sustain it for years and years and years, and the problem we had was for Mourinho to be the success we all wanted him to be with us, he would have to buck that trend. So far the jury is out as to whether he can or will do that.
But that's not to say he definitely wont. We have little choice but to give him what he needs and hope he can do it. A lot of pressure on him to deliver in the league next season - deliver a decent title challenge, at least. If we win the EL this year that'll be a great springboard to launch into next season, in terms of confidence - for the squad we already have, and prospective targets thinking about whether they want to come here.
I said before he joined that what made SAF so special wasnt the heights he achieved but the fact he managed to sustain those heights for such a long time. Mourinho achieved similar heights to SAF, a number of managers do, but very few of those managers are able to sustain it for years and years and years, and the problem we had was for Mourinho to be the success we all wanted him to be with us, he would have to buck that trend. So far the jury is out as to whether he can or will do that.
But that's not to say he definitely wont. We have little choice but to give him what he needs and hope he can do it. A lot of pressure on him to deliver in the league next season - deliver a decent title challenge, at least. If we win the EL this year that'll be a great springboard to launch into next season, in terms of confidence - for the squad we already have, and prospective targets thinking about whether they want to come here.
Yawn. We've been through the whole "top red" thing before
I agree that we should stick with him. I am not happy about the chopping and changing, however that said, there is nothing wrong with questioning the current performance in his job. I don't think many are actually calling for an end to the Jose journey. I don't know if Jose is the man to "rebuild" a football club and time will tell. He has been typically an instant success man and that goes against the whole "building" a squad.
You are right in that we have missed chances. More than anyone else. These players have it within them to score though and maybe need an arm around the shoulder, especially the young ones. Rashford and Martial in particular seem to have lost all composure in front of goal.
He's a pretty good manager, with some clear weaknesses (such as his glaring lack of longevity). This season he's not been good enough, but if we manage to secure a Champions a League spot through Europa it'll our lacklustre league performance will be forgotten quick enough.
But failing to secure a CL-spot? That's massively off target, and in private I'm sure he'll be the first to admit it himself. Hopefully he'll get it right next season though. Otherwise I see us disintegrating pretty fast, akin to Chelsea last season.
He's quite clearly nothing special at this point in time, as far as football managers go, as there are better managers out there, doing much more with far less.
But failing to secure a CL-spot? That's massively off target, and in private I'm sure he'll be the first to admit it himself. Hopefully he'll get it right next season though. Otherwise I see us disintegrating pretty fast, akin to Chelsea last season.
He's quite clearly nothing special at this point in time, as far as football managers go, as there are better managers out there, doing much more with far less.
Is this thread serious?
He looks like he knows what he's doing and know what he wants. And I'm happy he's mentally challenging our players and not overly protecting soft bottles.
This is from a guy who did not want him here in the first place.
I look at most of our matches and I can't find fault with his approach.
His only mistake was not pushing the club to bring in more attackers in the summer. A mistake I'm sure won't be made this one.
He looks like he knows what he's doing and know what he wants. And I'm happy he's mentally challenging our players and not overly protecting soft bottles.
This is from a guy who did not want him here in the first place.
I look at most of our matches and I can't find fault with his approach.
His only mistake was not pushing the club to bring in more attackers in the summer. A mistake I'm sure won't be made this one.
Mourinho has always been good at identifying what a squad needs to improve it, I guess that is why he has this reputation for doing particularly well in his second seasons. So Im confident we'll look better next season than we have this. Whether it will be enough to win the league or not is another question. But we'll improve.
Not for me at all. And while I support him as our manager and not calling for his head he has yet to convince me otherwise on why I never wanted him. I am yet to see the "world class" manager we signed because he has performed way below my minimum expectations.
There is next season but it feels like signing a world class player on the decline and the hope fans have is because of his prestigious history and stature, very little to do with now.
There is next season but it feels like signing a world class player on the decline and the hope fans have is because of his prestigious history and stature, very little to do with now.
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Yes, of course he is.
Yes, He clearly isn't the best coach or have a magical formula to play great football. He relies on great players and I won't complain if we build a squad of great players over the summer. Winners are what we need and winners he can attract. Let's see when we have more Mourinho players how we play/compete.
Exactly.. The over the top knee jerk reaction of some so called 'supporters' really beggers belief.
Like I said in another thread the otherday, people really have no idea of the magnitude of the the task Jose inherited, and are addicted to a 'quick fix' mentality.
Anybody with half a braincell can see we are inproving and Jose needs more time and money to straighten out the mess he took over.
But hey, let's just berate the manager and show the level of our self deluded expectations.. It's easier
Exactly this. It took Fergie 3 1/2 years to win shit. In today's "instant success or else" he would have been sacked and been a mere foot note.
I'm not thrilled with everything I see but realize there are many factors to our mediocrity of late. Willing to give Mou 2 full seasons at least.
Yup, iirc they were always good friend, I bet Jose rates him because Pulis is as much of a pragmatic as Jose and Pulis does punch above his weight with shit teams. Remember when he called out Bog Sam on his 19th century tactics? I don't think he's ever done that on Pulis who's notorious for it (not that I hold it against Pulis, as much as it's a fecking puke to watch his teams absolutely kill the game, I sort of admire it).
Was looking for this photo (from the game this weekend) and found a bunch of similar ones from his time at Chelsea. He really likes Pulis. Bonded by a mutual hatred of Arsene Wenger?
very well put.. nice analysis and in depth breakdown of the manager and his work.. You cleary have an impartial and unprejudiced view!
No
You cleary have an impartial and unprejudiced view!
Think you should smile a little bit more too mate.
This is where I am. Regardless of the whys and wherefores of Jose being here, changing him now would vindicate the players' profligacy in front of goal and put us back to square one building a purposeful squad.
I find this well over the top.
He was only special in that puppet show.
That was great.
That was great.
Good post.
This was one if the main reasons for this thread. Got lost amidst all that 'you don't know the magnitude' top red posts earlier.
I'm very pissed that Shaw, Martial and Rashford are regressing under Mou. I was really excited by these 3 and hoping they'd be the stars of the future for us.
I hate seeing them used as bait excuse for him not being able to get the best out if them. I'd be seriously pissed if we sold any of them.
I want Utd to win, that's all I care about. I have no affinity to Mourinho like I did with SAF, not because SAF was here my whole life time, but because SAF was a decent person. I couldnt care less if Jose stays or not. I just want to see Utd playing good football and competing again
What else is there to say?
You cleary have an impartial and unprejudiced view!
The old Mourinho would have been a welcome appointment, the type of manager you hated on one hand but secretly wished he was your own. A guy who's confidence bordered on arrogance but had a likeable charm that made him endearing. Whatever happened to him in Madrid ruined him and severely tainted that appeal.
This made evident by him dominating the league two years ago, right?
Once he starts winning again all of that shite will return. He knew the job would be hard but I think even he is a little surprised how tough this rebuild would be.
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Don't really care about the special one nonsense as it was always a fairly meaningless term.
I do think he's the best manager we could get though so I'm happy to have him. I don't like some of his methods, I don't think he's good in every regard but no one is.
I do think he's the best manager we could get though so I'm happy to have him. I don't like some of his methods, I don't think he's good in every regard but no one is.
I've only seen Sir Alex do that vs Barca in 08. Comparing Sir Alex's approach to football with Mou is ridiculous, virtually sugar and salt. There's a reason one is know for pragmatic football while the other is known for peddle to the metal type stuff.
He likes the traditional Brit managers. Gets on well with Allardyce as well even though they've clashed "philosophically". Think Mourinho admires their lack of pretension and probably thinks Rafa, Wenger, etc are bluffing or putting it on in some way and there to be taken psychologically.
Was looking for this photo (from the game this weekend) and found a bunch of similar ones from his time at Chelsea. He really likes Pulis. Bonded by a mutual hatred of Arsene Wenger?
Im sure I read this in another thread on here a few weeks ago. But the old Mourinho would clearly mock the new Mourinho, given how things have gone this season. But that says as much about the "Old Mourinho" as it does about our current manager - its the problem with crowing too much when you are winning, and ridiculing people like Wenger when they are struggling: it means people are always waiting for you to slip yourself, so they can turn it all back on you.
The difference being does anyone actually see Wenger getting back to the top? Whereas with Jose it looks like we are just a few more tweaks away from turning those draws into wins, we're already just about unbeatable.
Yeah just before it spectacularly blew up in his face.
Funny how so many were saying that the current Chelsea side were done and needed a number of changes, how Hazard wasn't all that and questioned a number of other players, yet that same side, plus players that Mourinho deemed not good enough are currently on their way to winning the league.
For me he is absolutely the right man for the job. He's never managed at a club with a combination of mediocre/inconsistent (Young) attacking talent, especially one which is expected to be challenging for the title. We currently stand in my eyes with;
Martial - Potentially world class - Inconsistent.
Miki - Our only truly world class attacking midfielder.
Mata - Injured
Rashford - more often than not played out on the wing - Potentially world class/decision making - Inconsistent.
Zlatan - World class.
Lingard - Decent squad player, not even close to world class level. A level below what's required for the title, at least in a Mourinho team.
Young - Squad player, past the peak of his powers as a winger, which were never close to being the best in the first place.
Rooney - Absolute dross, slow, cumbersome. Only value is as a set piece taker.
When you compare this to his Chelsea/Madrid/Porto/Inter attackers, the difference is night and day.
Robben, Drogba, Hazard, Willian, Lampard, Ronaldo, Benzema etc etc
The point is, his teams have always been successful because they've had the right combination of pace and consistent, proven creative players, usually surrounding a target man. I'm confident that as soon as Jose signs the right attacking players in the summer to compliment Zlatan and Miki then we'll be a force to be reckoned with again. He's sorted the defence out in one season, now he's fully aware of the limits of our attack, be they down to potential, or just limited players. He's ruthless and won't hesitate to improve us in the summer.
Martial - Potentially world class - Inconsistent.
Miki - Our only truly world class attacking midfielder.
Mata - Injured
Rashford - more often than not played out on the wing - Potentially world class/decision making - Inconsistent.
Zlatan - World class.
Lingard - Decent squad player, not even close to world class level. A level below what's required for the title, at least in a Mourinho team.
Young - Squad player, past the peak of his powers as a winger, which were never close to being the best in the first place.
Rooney - Absolute dross, slow, cumbersome. Only value is as a set piece taker.
When you compare this to his Chelsea/Madrid/Porto/Inter attackers, the difference is night and day.
Robben, Drogba, Hazard, Willian, Lampard, Ronaldo, Benzema etc etc
The point is, his teams have always been successful because they've had the right combination of pace and consistent, proven creative players, usually surrounding a target man. I'm confident that as soon as Jose signs the right attacking players in the summer to compliment Zlatan and Miki then we'll be a force to be reckoned with again. He's sorted the defence out in one season, now he's fully aware of the limits of our attack, be they down to potential, or just limited players. He's ruthless and won't hesitate to improve us in the summer.
Except no-one is arguing he isn't a cnut who isn't prone to falling out with players? If anything, that's how he's all been, which contradicts your view that you would prefer the "old Jose", because that's as old Jose as it comes. Chelsea having player power has nothing to do with his ability as a manager. The day players start deciding who their manager is at United, is the day I'm done with this sport.
I certainly hope youre right. I certainly dont see Wenger getting back to the top, whether Mourinho can do it or not remains to be seen, he's got a better chance but it doesnt look inevitable. But as Ive said before I am totally behind him, that's partly because I dont see we have much choice but its also because his record is such that we'd be crazy not to give him more time to turn things around.
My point was really that he has put pressure on himself by not being the most gracious of people.
Wasn't enthused by his appointment, especially as the team had finally started to show signs of improvement under Van Gaal. I feel Van Gaal and Moyes were sacked too soon. I appreciate the passion he shows and that he demands a lot from his players but the constant moaning at press conferences and belittling of players is a lot to stomach. Barely a few days ago he apologised for how he treated Schweinsteiger, then he goes and lambastes Luke Shaw in the press. Even if Shaw isn't training well, he's done nothing publicly to warrant having his own manager run him down. His antics on the touchline earlier in the season got him the touchline ban during a crucial run of games and also wasn't helpful.
However, he shouldn't be sacked and should be given the 3 years to try and improve the results and at least get us back into the top 4. I think the lack of top level quality in the squad is a greater problem than the manager at the moment.
However, he shouldn't be sacked and should be given the 3 years to try and improve the results and at least get us back into the top 4. I think the lack of top level quality in the squad is a greater problem than the manager at the moment.
I genuinely believe people are just speaking about how he lost his aura etc because he's no longer such a cnut. He's matured. Our football is much, much better and I'm not scared going to smaller teams and getting beat anymore. We just need some improvements to turn those draws into wins and we will be golden imo.
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