Is our CM situation any worse than it was during our last title win?

[altodevil]

Present:
Matic
McTominay
Fred
van de Beek
Pogba

2012-13:
Cleverley
Anderson
Carrick
Post-illness Fletcher
Post-retirement Scholes

 

[Crashoutcassius]

No better probably. But that midfield was incredibly weak for years

 

[Pexbo]

Any midfield with Carrick and Scholes is hard to beat. You’re also forgetting that Giggs played in a three pretty regularly.

 

[Devil may care]

Carrick was a much better player than any of the current 3 midfielders we have, the teams we were competing with weren't as strong and we had Fergie, he could turn chicken shit into chicken salad, teams still feared us while he was here.

 

[croadyman]

Any midfield with Carrick and Scholes is hard to beat. You’re also forgetting that Giggs played in a three pretty regularly.

Yeah was thinking this myself the other night but when you take into account Scholesy & Carrick you have to say yes, like @Devil may care just pointed out the brilliance of Fergie and less competition helped mask the problem in that area

 

[pav1790]

Have people forgotten how good Carrick was starting 2011? Even won over his long time detractors in those seasons.

 

[Gerald G]

Carrick was a much better player than any of the current 3 midfielders we have, the teams we were competing with weren't as strong and we had Fergie, he could turn chicken shit into chicken salad, teams still feared us while he was here.

Pretty much this.

Plus we've been complaining about our midfield for years. Our midfield signings have basically been poor too or just not worked out - Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Fred etc

Still annoyed that we missed out on Kroos

 

[hungrywing]

If you remove Pogba, Scholes by himself is better than everyone on that list combined.

 

[altodevil]

Have people forgotten how good Carrick was starting 2011? Even won over his long time detractors in those seasons.

Yeah I think Carrick alone swings it. That said, on the whole I think the quality in depth isn't too dissimilar.

 

[Tarrou]

Yeah I think so

Swap Carrick for anyone today and we’re in way better shape

 

[altodevil]

If you remove Pogba, Scholes by himself is better than everyone on that list combined.

Not 2012 Scholes

 

[el3mel]

No. People are just exaggerating.

 

[MadMike]

No, but I don't understand what that has to do with anything.

Back then Mac City didn't have Pep, Liverpool were in shambles, Chelsea were not quite a shambles but a poor Di Matteo team and so on. The competition was far weaker compared to now and we had Fergie back then.

I severely doubt peak Fergie would win the title with our current midfield against this level of opposition. Never mind Ole.

 

[Achilles McCool]

Carrick was a much better player than any of the current 3 midfielders we have, the teams we were competing with weren't as strong and we had Fergie, he could turn chicken shit into chicken salad, teams still feared us while he was here.

That’s one of Fergie’s miracles that I wouldn’t want to see (or taste!) but I guess after turning water into wine (a little too often, according to reports), the chicken salad feat came pretty easy!
Now, how does he teach Ole how to create a midfield that is immune to the press?!?

 

[Trophy Room]

I think it really boils down to how Ole wants to play. Like it or not, our best performances have been with McFred - they are an underrated duo although individually turn to shite when one is unavailable. Matic is great on his day but is clearly in decline and cannot be relied upon. Pogba is just a liability in a holding role especially in the PL. It’s such a vital position but very few gettable options.

 

[Bondi77]

If you remove Pogba, Scholes by himself is better than everyone on that list combined.

You do not have to remove Pogba.

 

[Bondi77]

Present:
Matic
McTominay
Fred
van de Beek
Pogba

2012-13:
Cleverley
Anderson
Carrick
Post-illness Fletcher
Post-retirement Scholes

I haven’t seen Van De Beek play yet

 

[Caesar2290]

Nope, but we had a GOAT of a manager who won 5 of the last 7 EPLs and lost the other 2 by goal difference and 1 point.

Right now it's hard even to say under what category we can class Ole

 

[Longshanks]

Carrick is the big difference i think, he basically held that midfield together in fergies final seasons. Giggs also played in cm quite a bit in that season if I remember rightly.

Probably better than our current options but not massivley..

 

[Strats]

Post retirement Scholes wasn’t at his best, but would have been a good option with his passing in today’s midfield.

 

[Infra-red]

2012-13 midfield was a historically weak one for United, but still better than our current options.

Our opponents were not of the level of the current Liverpool/Chelsea/City sides.

The comparison therefore falls down rather badly.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

We actually had a proper top class midfielder then in Carrick. The work he did that season was incredible, so yes, our current midfield is considerably worse.

 

[The United]

Well, didn't Jones play as DM before?!

 

[choccy77]

Present:
Matic
McTominay
Fred
van de Beek
Pogba

2012-13:
Cleverley
Anderson
Carrick
Post-illness Fletcher
Post-retirement Scholes

Anderson covered that midfield so there was no room to run around him.

 

[Bastian]

Yes. I think a lot of people here are underestimating the value of Carrick's experience and footballing intelligence on the pitch. We have no one even remotely close to that. McTominay needs a partner to take the lead and Fred's so erratic, especially for a midfielder. Matic is was class, but can we really bank on him to hack it physically? He definitely does not work as in partnership with Fred (not based on the Southampton match, but the entire failed experiment, same as Bailly-Lindelof).

Post-illness Fletcher still has the characteristics required, a model pro and big game player. Scholes was obviously way past it physically, but again, the right mentality (look at how good Moutinho has been for Wolves) and probably invaluable on the training ground.

I made the point before, but think of our training matches, without any serious quality in the midfield department, we won't prepare in training for what we normally face in matches. And tactically it shows, again and again.

2012-2013 Cleverley wasn't anywhere near good enough, but would probably get a game for us these days.

It's hard to overestimate the lack of midfield quality we've had for years now.

 

[Pronewbie]

Yes. Because we had a world class screener in Carrick and tidy passers of the ball. It was sufficiently balanced if nothing special.

 

[Samid]

Switch Fred for Carrick and we’d be favorites for the league.

 

[Blood Mage]

Don't be mental, Carrick was incredible that season.

 

[#07]

Carrick was so good he made Cleverley look a Man Utd midfield stalwart.

Carrick was so much better as a midfielder than anyone else we have today, including Pogba.

Pogba doesn't really excel as an orthodox midfielder. You get the best out of him when he's allowed to go forward with freedom. Pogba's best stuff has basically come as a floating playmaker off the left. Pretty much the Juan Mata role from the other side of the pitch.

Playing in a midfield two, with responsibility for covering and kicking off attacks, Carrick was miles ahead of what we've got. If we had Carrick of 10 years ago, or even Carrick of 5 years ago, we'd win the league.

 

[BAMSOLA]

Yes because we don't have SAF.

 

[Morpheus 7]

The league is way stronger, we had a better manager too.

 

[Kyonn]

Present:
Matic
McTominay
Fred
van de Beek
Pogba

2012-13:
Cleverley
Anderson
Carrick
Post-illness Fletcher
Post-retirement Scholes

Is 36/37 CR7 as good as peak RVP?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If you remove Pogba, Scholes by himself is better than everyone on that list combined.

In 2012-2013?

He definitely was not.

He barely played that season.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It was worse(and yes I know Carrick was great that season) with a worse defense and worse attack.

We had the best manager ever though.

Our squad now is easily better than it was in 2012-2013.

 

[CM]

Carrick would walk into this team, so yes.

I think it's a waste of time considering Pogba and van de Beek serious midfield options in this side too - both operate further up the pitch. None of McTominay, Fred or Matic improve the 12/13 side that won the title.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Carrick was immense that season. Him and RvP carried the team to that title.

Although one thing’s for certain, constant moaning about how weak we are in central midfield has been a theme on here for nearly 20 years. Although the strength of our squad always worried me less (i.e. not at all) with Fergie in charge.

 

[Mr PG]

main problem is we have to cover for Pogba defensively (as good as he is going forward) and now we'll have to cover for Ronaldo as well who won't press from the front). Thats why Ole is comfortable with 2 screeners (McFred) who'll be happy to just sit there...we just need to get Bruno to play a bit deeper now and Sancho comes deep to collect the ball so that's ball progression problem solved.

 

[CloneMC16]

12/13 had Carrick playing at an elite level. Carrick and RVP carried that team hard to win the title. We have nobody of his quality in our current midfield. People look at Pogba, but he's not a sitting midfielder. He shouldn't be playing in a pivot. Our 12/13 midfield was still weak outside of Carrick, though. Fans were asking for a midfielder for years and Sir Alex never bought one. This hasn't really changed since the Sir Alex years. We've rarely ever been happy with our midfield.

 

[DannyDee]

Carrick provided the stability that none of our defensive mids currently offer.

 

[Ralph1386]

Present:
Matic
McTominay
Fred
van de Beek
Pogba

2012-13:
Cleverley
Anderson
Carrick
Post-illness Fletcher
Post-retirement Scholes

Important to mention Matic’s age in your list. He’s not exactly 28 is he? His legs are almost gone and he can at most play one game a week, and maybe not last the full 90 minutes even then.