Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

[stefan92]

Pep has easily fullfiled the expectations of winning league titles at Bayern and City. Far worse managers have done it.

But consistently winning leagues is not the expectation, it is the minimum to not getting sacked, at least at Bayern.

Winning the CL is the expectation if you sign a potential GOAT manager for a team that reached 3 CL finals in the 4 seasons before. He didn't reach a single one.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Not to mention, he inherited a UCL winning Bayern team, and later, Flick has won the same number of trophies at Bayern including the UCL in less time than Pep.

He inherited a treble winning team.

 

[Amar__]

Not to mention, he inherited a UCL winning Bayern team, and later, Flick has won the same number of trophies at Bayern including the UCL in less time than Pep.

I completely forgot that Bayern won UCL just before and after him.

But consistently winning leagues is not the expectation, it is the minimum to not getting sacked, at least at Bayern.

Winning the CL is the expectation if you sign a potential GOAT manager for a team that reached 3 CL finals in the 4 seasons before. He didn't reach a single one.

Expectations at City was always the premierleague, because he's failed so far 3-4 years in a row in CL and didn't get sack. I am sure they were happy at City with the trophies he's won with them so far. For Bayern maybe you are right, the expectations could be winning the CL, but I am not sure.

 

[Bebestation]

Pep has never been in charge of a club that wasnt well structured. He has landed at clubs that has given him the resource to thrive.

Let me see what Pochettino does at a club like Chelsea first to make such a conclusion. Unlike pep, Pochettino has turned around clubs that does not have the right resources. Achieving things at Spurs and Southampton that no other manager has achieved yet or will probably not achieve in awhile. At Psg, he coached an uncoachable team into the champion league semi finals, won all the domestic cups, went unbeaten at home, and got the best out of a generational talent, who has been struggling since he left. I feel the platform is there for Pochettino to be in that bracket, if Bohley doesn't mess things up. If there is any coaches Bohley has to back, it is the one that he hired right now.

However, as it stands, I believe pep is going to be the best because of how his team plays and the ability to perform that way consistently over a long period of time. Moreover, the trophies he has won. Sir Alex is 1st on that list. And mourinho 2nd. But after the treble, pep will be 2nd and if pep can continue this for few more years, he will easily be 1st. But once again, let see how Pochettino does at Chelsea because he has platform now that he can truly show what he is capable of if Bohley doesn't mess things up.

This is what I feel about most feel Barcelona managers and players.

Ever since Cruyff’s total football - it’s literally as they said it - they have a DNA that is passed down through generations.

 

[Cascarino]

There’s definitely an argument. The fact he hasn’t done it under certain circumstances that someone like Ferguson did will be held against him, but there’s also something to be said for taking the jobs where success is expected, there’s a pressure in that as well and meeting those expectations. People often make the point that Guardiola couldn’t do what Klopp did at Liverpool, which I think is probably true, but I think the reverse is true as well, not many managers would have had the league domination Guardiola has had even with all the advantages granted to him. I don’t think either manager will have been as good as prime Allardyce at rescuing clubs destined for relegation, horses for courses and all that. If you have financial superiority and you’re going to pick any one manager to guarantee you the league, you’ll pick Guardiola. I also think his work at Barcelona gets underrated in these discussions, people will point to the amazing players he inherited, but Guardiola made a lot of bold at the time, he had a clear innovative vision of how he wanted his team to play, shifted some legends of the game and put faith in some untested and unproven youngsters and massively lifted the game of others, and constructed arguably the greatest club side of all time all as a rookie manager. No other manager would have achieved what he did that season. So while it’s fair to say Guardiola couldn’t do the jobs that other managers have, and people will point to Mourinho’s inter and situations like it, it’s only fair to say that 07/08 Barcelona could have only have happened under him.

When people talk Messi and Ronaldo, and someone says “I don’t see the point in comparing them”, I never really understood that. Two players who played at the same time and were positionally comparable enough to make comparisons, why wouldn’t someone have an opinion on who’s better? But with Ferguson and Guardiola I get it, two GOAT managers who had different strengths and suited different jobs. I’d still go for Ferguson, but I can easily see the argument for either.

 

[AdamColeBebe]

No

 

[MexicanCowboy]

If he manages to keep winning titles at the same rate he has so far I would say so. This sport is about winning after all.

Btw, for those saying managers like Mourinho are better for managing weak teams I gotta say if you are a top manager there is no reason to manage weak teams. The only reason Mourinho managed Tottenham and is currently managing Roma is because he failed managing top sides and got sacked.

 

[Ayoba]

He's the bestest in the whole wide world

 

[Nickelodeon]

He is the GOAT* for me

 

[FrankDrebin]

SAF won the league title with Tom Cleverley playing a key role in the team. Tom fecking Cleverley.

 

[Dec9003]

It’s difficult to compare modern ‘head coaches’ with old school managers like Fergie imo. Their jobs are a lot different, Fergie had a say in everything at United, which is probably more demanding but gives you control. At City for example Pep has a whole team above him working on everything, which helps him focus on coaching but maybe gives him less control than Fergie had.
He’s probably the best coach or one of, maybe not the best manager though for me.
Plus as Amadeus said we’ve not seen Poch get unleashed at Stamford Bridge yet.

 

[mctrials23]

Hard to argue that he isn't one of the best ever. My biggest issue with him is that always goes into a league and takes over the most dominant and rich team. Yes he usually makes them better but he bloody well should do with the resources and position he inherits. I think hes a fantastic manager but he never works within restrictions.

Like most managers, he works best in a certain structure and environment. His just happens to be one where he has the best team in the league and huge funds to spend each year. Thats not a dig, plenty of managers have a similar remit and don't deliver.

 

[Stobzilla]

In football, he is probably the best Head Coach.
SAF remains the best manager.

 

[T00lsh3d]

He’s up there, but there’s just too much tainted about his Barca and City success to have him at number one.

A bit like City themselves, they’ll always be just too tainted by corruption for their football to get its recognition

 

[Sviken]

You give an average manager the City and Bayern jobs, they'll win you the title consistently. Pep is a great manager, but he has done nothing out of the extraordinary. I'll start praising him when he takes an actual difficult job and does something with it. Playing Football Manager on an unlimited budget ain't that difficult.

 

[BuzzKillington]

Pep Guardiola is my idol.

 

[dinostar77]

Best manager of all time?

Barcelona he had one of the greatest players ever to play the game in his prime. Without him at bayern he failed to make the CL final even once.

At city, he has been bankrolled by a club that cheated ffp and have a army of lawyers tying up UEFA and PL in litigation so the hundreds of charges dont stick.

 

[Raebareliwale]

Undoubtedly the best coach ever.

A lot of you folks are ignoring the fact that he got the Barcelona job because of what he did with Barca B team.
Barca B team were relegated a season before and he revolutionized that team.

His great coaching work was so evident that he got the Barca job over Jose, an unbelievable and v risky decision by Barca at that time.
Barcelona always had great players but Frank Raijkard never fulfilled the teams potential.
It was Pep who delivered, and oh my god what a beauty that team was.

Bayern, I believe Bayern played incredibly well under him but no doubt the expectations were too high in Europe and he failed to meet those expectations but nonetheless the quality of football was outrageous. But if we only judge him on Champions League success, he failed.

City, what a progression it has been. Monumental.
Pellegrini's team was not the best one but the transition has been truly formidable.
There have been hiccups for sure but what a transformation.
If City manage to get the treble, it will be a historical achievement for sure.

SAF/Mourinho were great managers but SAF was always beaten by Pep. Mourinho was great at Madrid but he sort of tarnished his reputation at united.
Moreover, premier league's standard is probably at the highest right now.
Back in the days of SAF. it was mostly 2-3 teams that were competing.
Moreover, I don't recall SAF winning the Champions League more than 2 times in his overall tenure.

In my mind, Pep is definitely the best there is. He already has 2 champions league titles to his name and moreover has age on his side.
He will surely win alot more judging by his track record.

Notable mention is Jurgen Klopp. What Klopp has achieved with Liverpool is nothing short of incredible. I think Pep and Klopp have redefined the standards of football in recent history.

 

[Bebe]

Not until he achieves some kind of success with something other than the best squad in whatever league he's playing in.

Barca had probably the best midfield of all time as well as probably the best player of all time

Bayern play in a one team league

City have the deepest squad in world football with 50m players on the bench backing up every position.

He's incredible, and can probably elevate an elite squad to levels no other manager (including SAF) could. But until he does something where the odds aren't stacked in his favour he can't be considered the best ever, imo.

 

[Amar__]

If he manages to keep winning titles at the same rate he has so far I would say so. This sport is about winning after all.

Btw, for those saying managers like Mourinho are better for managing weak teams I gotta say if you are a top manager there is no reason to manage weak teams. The only reason Mourinho managed Tottenham and is currently managing Roma is because he failed managing top sides and got sacked.

No one said Mourinho is better because he managed Roma and Spurs ffs. By weaker teams people mean the likes of Porto and Inter who will probably never win the CL again in some time.

 

[Cloudface]

Maybe the unluckiest player and manager?

Failing a drugs test due to his doctor giving him the wrong medicine.

His titles at Barcelona being placed under a shroud due to the investigation into Barcelona paying off referees.

Being banned from Europe for two years at City and only getting off on a technicality and therefore not clearing his good name as they no doubt would have done.

And now the further 115 charges of breaking financial regulations at City which are overshadowing his almost, done before, historic treble attempt.

He's just terribly unfortunate.

 

[ifightdragons]

I'd say that he isn't as legendary as SAF and some others.

But yes, I think Pep has come the closest to actually perfecting the principles of Total Voetbal. He is the embodiment of what football has become since the 2010s, and every top club and manager going forward will aim to emulate him.

I'd say he is technically the very best manager/tactician we have ever seen.
If he can keep it up for another 10 years, no one can use the argument of longevity against him either.

 

[MongeySpangle]

These comments really make me laugh. As if anyone who was good enough in any profession wouldn't take the best jobs on offer in their field. The best teams want him for a reason. Please tell me why he would choose to go to a midtable team to build them to a European regular when there is not a single team in the world who wouldn't want him managing them. The argument is and always has been ridiculous.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

What SAF did at Aberdeen dwarfs all of Pep's achievements to date too. In the last 57 years the Scottish league has been won by a team other than Rangers or Celtic only 4 times. 3 of those were Aberdeen under SAF, and since he won it in 84/85 every single league title has been won by either Rangers or Celtic. He also won 4 Scottish Cups and 1 Scottish League Cup during his time there. And the cherry on top was the 82/83 Cup Winners' Cup, defeating Bayern Munich in the QF, and Real Madrid in the final. SAF is still the last manager to have defeated Real Madrid in a European final.

 

[Dannn411]

No he isn't. But he is up there. I'd say top 10/ top 5. Mostly because of the Barcelona years. Particularly early Barcelona years. They went from ordinary to unplayable in literally one year and they stayed unplayable for 4-5 years.

Yes he likes going to places where he has maximum competitive advantage over the rest of the league but what he did at Barcelona was special and that can never be taken away from him. Those 5 years alone are enough to be considered an all time great. He is a genuinely legendary coach.

 

[P-Ro]

These comments really make me laugh. As if anyone who was good enough in any profession wouldn't take the best jobs on offer in their field. The best teams want him for a reason. Please tell me why he would choose to go to a midtable team to build them to a European regular when there is not a single team in the world who wouldn't want him managing them. The argument is and always has been ridiculous.

Yea but could he handle a managing a Southampton team on a cold, rainy Tuesday night at St Mary's like Pochettino? The jury is still out.

 

[Canagel]

He is. One only has to watch City players for club and country to find the answer.

KDB is a nothing player in International football but in Manchester with a system catered to hide his weaknesses he is a different player. A lot of players owe their careers to him.

Sane has looked like a fraud ever since he left Guardiola. Other managers have had access to the same players and not achieved the same things.

I dont like his antics but you can't argue against his credentials as a manager.

 

[Amadaeus]

Agreed. Do you think Poch has done enough to be considered above SAF or not yet? I think they're neck and neck as things stand.

Nah, not yet, because Pochettino hasn't really gotten that platform yet. He created a platform for spurs, only for Levy to mess it up, by not backing him when they needed few world class players. Not surprised about how things are going with the clubs he has left.

 

[Irwin99]

Yea but could he handle a managing a Southampton team on a cold, rainy Tuesday night at St Mary's like Pochettino? The jury is still out.

These comments really make me laugh. As if anyone who was good enough in any profession wouldn't take the best jobs on offer in their field. The best teams want him for a reason. Please tell me why he would choose to go to a midtable team to build them to a European regular when there is not a single team in the world who wouldn't want him managing them. The argument is and always has been ridiculous.

That's NOT what people are saying though and you're deliberately misinterpreting the argument. No one is saying 'go manage Yeovil and take them to the champions league' it's more about could he turn around a big but struggling club who perhaps were under some financial restrictions, going through a major slump and reverse their fortunes and build something lasting? Spurs have been a champions league team for quite a few seasons over the past 5 or 6 years but do you really think Pep would have the patience or even the skill to implement his style of football there without EVERYTHING being handed to him? Jose for all his faults took a Porto side to champions league glory, Klopp rebuilt Dortmund AND Liverpool (who had been something of a joke for most of 30 years) and Sir Alex Ferguson won a fecking European trophy with Aberdeen!!! Those were some real battles and tests of credential.

 

[Grylte]

He's only managed the best or richest clubs, clubs half the caf would've won trophies with, he's not even close.

 

[berbatrick]

You give an average manager the City and Bayern jobs, they'll win you the title consistently.

Before Pep, City won the league 2 of 5 seasons (since the takeover). They never defended their title.
With Pep, they've won 5 of 7 seasons, including a three-season and 2-season repeat.

The PL is not = Bundesliga, Pep (and his funding) have made it into that.

 

[iHicksy]

Gotta laugh at clowns like the poster above saying he's the greatest because he gets a tune out of KDB when he's crap at international level. Are you freaking kidding me? That's the yardstick you use? You could say the same about Scholes, Lampard etc. What about all of the players he couldn't coach? You know, like the 6 leftbacks he had to buy one after the other?

If he's such an amazing coach, why does he need to spend literally billions to replace players over and over that he's unable to coach to fit into his system. Yes City play good football, but Pep literally needs to endless buy and replace players until he finds the one that he can finally make work. SAF meanwhile was rocking up to champions league games with O shea and cleverley in cm and could take apart arsenal 8-1 with the da silva twins playing cm. So please, let's not pretend he's some coaching genuis, yes he's probably the most advanced in terms of tactics to play fluid football, but he also needs a conveyer belt of the absolute best players to even get close to the CL and win the league. Heynckes
coaching was far, far superior to Peps and SAF is a far far better overall manager. He only looks like winning the CL now that they've managed to buy the best goal scorer on the planet. Surely a truly great coach would have been able to win the prem without spending billions and billlions.

 

[Dannn411]

Why are people using Aberdeen to prop up Sir Alex's legacy? Yes Aberdeen was obviously great but the real jewel in the crown is Manchester United. Anybody can win titles with a great team. Not many can build a great team, turn the team completely over and build other great teams without skipping a beat. Two hat-trick titles 10 years apart from the same man is by far the toughest thing to do in football.

Don't let these other clubs fans deceive you that anybody could have done what Sir Alex did. Fergie has three separate great teams that he built. 92-95, 96-99, 06-11.

 

[Jazz]

No.

He could never win the league with the team that Sir Alex won his last PL title with....

Just no.

 

[P-Ro]

That's NOT what people are saying though and you're deliberately misinterpreting the argument. No one is saying 'go manage Yeovil and take them to the champions league' it's more about could he turn around a big but struggling club who perhaps were under some financial restrictions, going through a major slump and reverse their fortunes and build something lasting? Spurs have been a champions league team for quite a few seasons over the past 5 or 6 years but do you really think Pep would have the patience or even the skill to implement his style of football there without EVERYTHING being handed to him? Jose for all his faults took a Porto side to champions league glory, Klopp rebuilt Dortmund AND Liverpool (who had been something of a joke for most of 30 years) and Sir Alex Ferguson won a fecking European trophy with Aberdeen!!! Those were some real battles and tests of credential.

No it is YOU who is misinterpreting the argument. I don't think Pep has the MINERALS to take Yeovil to the Champions League but Pochettino does. If Pep is to go down as an all time great he HAS to take Yeovil to European glory.

 

[stefan92]

Why are people using Aberdeen to prop up Sir Alex's legacy? Yes Aberdeen was obviously great but the real jewel in the crown is Manchester United. Anybody can win titles with a great team. Not many can build a great team, turn the team completely over and build other great teams without skipping a beat. Two hat-trick titles 10 years apart from the same man is by far the toughest thing to do in football.

Don't let these other clubs fans deceive you that anybody could have done what Sir Alex did. Fergie has three separate great teams that he built. 92-95, 96-99, 06-11.

Four. Not giving him credit for his Aberdeen team is just silly. He won a European cup with a club that had not even won stuff in Scotland before he arrived. It was an amazing job and cutting that from hid CV doesn't do him justice.

 

[Irwin99]

Before Pep, City won the league 2 of 5 seasons (since the takeover). They never defended their title.
With Pep, they've won 5 of 7 seasons, including a three-season and 2-season repeat.

The PL is not = Bundesliga, Pep (and his funding) have made it into that.

You could quite clearly see that City has been at a very good level from around the time they first won the league in 11/12, in fact i don't think they've ever dropped out of the top 4 since unlike all the other big six clubs. He's definitely taken them up a level but I find it hard to take seriously that he's done something that another top manager couldn't do with those resources.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

feck off OP

That’s all

 

[Gavinb33]

Why are people using Aberdeen to prop up Sir Alex's legacy? Yes Aberdeen was obviously great but the real jewel in the crown is Manchester United. Anybody can win titles with a great team. Not many can build a great team, turn the team completely over and build other great teams without skipping a beat. Two hat-trick titles 10 years apart from the same man is by far the toughest thing to do in football.

Don't let these other clubs fans deceive you that anybody could have done what Sir Alex did. Fergie has three separate great teams that he built. 92-95, 96-99, 06-11.

That club is over 115 years old and SAF won 50% of their total trophies, that Aberdeen side beat Real Madrid and Bayern Munich en route to European trophy with a team or largely home grown or young players and they are the last team in Scotland not named Rangers or Celtic to win the league and that was over 40 years ago to not count it would be a disservice what he did there was miraculous, Aberdeen bear Real Madrid in a final for a European cup to even contemplate that now would be mind boggling

 

[mshnsh]

Guardiola needs certain type/level of players to be successful. Ferguson won things with Cleverly and Fletcher in his team.

At Bayern, he managed a treble winning side, but the best he did in the Champions League was a couple of semifinals where his team was thrashed by Barcelona and Real Madrid. The reason was that while he had very very good players, they were not his type.

But with the right type of players (to suit his style), he is a genius and definitely one of the best ever. He is revolutionary interms of style of football and the ability of his teams to play any calibre of opponent off the park. He has also won the treble twice, has anyone else done it?