Is Pochettino's time at Spurs coming to an end?

[Johan07]

Yeah, but I'd rather have our unproven quantities tbh. Ndombele has shown pretty good things thus far (only poor game came against Olympiakos) .. Lo Celso has been injured so we'll see.

Why does Ndombele 'not look ready for the PL?'. He's had 3 games here, scored once and assisted once. He's adapting to the league and the team and already looks to have obvious quality. How would Lo Celso not be ready yet when he's stepped foot on the pitch in the league for about 10 minutes?

We did the 'loan deal' for Lo Celso because the idea was that it stopped PSG getting a certain cut of the deal, so probably lowered the price on Betis' end. That's all.

Yeah, thats precisely why I would not endorse us doing something similar. I would hope we would be above such stuff (which we probably are not at all).
Also, if I understand the terms of the deal you can back out of it at the end of the season if Lo Celso does not perform.
I am not a fan of these type of transfers either.
But thats just me I guess.
I would rather see us commit to a player if we do sign him.

 

[Tom Cato]

The most successful club in the history of club football disagrees.

You need the right manager for the right time to be successful.

I actually have a great example of a club manager who had a considerably worse start to his managerial career in a certain club, than OGS is currently having, but who was given time and ultimately turned out to be successful.

There is a 2.7m tall statue of the man outside the Sir Alex Ferguson stand if you wonder who I'm referring to.

 

[acnumber9]

Like who? Mctominay? Pereira?

Your midfield options bar Pogba are hardly uber proven PL quality.

I never said they were. But believe me nobody is watching Winks or Sissoko with googly eyes and praying for the day they play for their club either. I don’t know why such a great team with so many amazing options is playing so poorly.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Getting Poch because he was good previously, despite winning nothing, after a worse run of games than our current manager, would be just as stupid as hiring Jose after his disastrous last season at Chelsea and thinking it's not that version that we will get but the previous successful one. The excuses that get made for him are constant, but with the quality players he has had at his disposal, in particular Kane, to never even win a Cup is inexcusable. That his lack of winning reflects his verbalized attitude to winning shows that it is because he has failed to instill the winning mentality that Champions need. An attitude that one can clearly see Ole trying to instill. Honestly, if you really love Poch more than Ole just become a Spurs fan and go join their board. You're more White than Red.

It's true but they could win a trophy this season and he could still go. He's right that the League Cup or FA Cup won't transform the club, as the league would.

Spurs will probably finish in the top four on the strength of their home form, and people will say it's far from a crisis, but this is exactly what happened to Arsenal. They got comfortable, the manager worked wonders but then struggled to when the market became saturated.

Thought Spurs peaked in 2015/16, even if they reached a CL final and were involved in another title race. They haven't been able to replicate the performances in the back end of that season and it was a fresh team at its peak. They never did learn from their mistakes.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I never said they were. But believe me nobody is watching Winks or Sissoko with googly eyes and praying for the day they play for their club either. I don’t know why such a great team with so many amazing options is playing so poorly.

It would hardly be the first time in history that talented players under performed, would it?

The club isn't on a smooth path at the moment. I don't think Pochettino is happy at the club and that's dripping down to the players, and the likes of Eriksen are pretty much on strike.

 

[padr81]

Its a rough patch and to be honest a long one. The cl run papered over a poorish end to last season too.

They'll turn it round but they need rid of the players who want out or who Poch wants out like Rose.

Also being honest the Newcastle result is the only real shocker. Leicester are probably closer to the big 6 than they are to 8th currently and had it not been for 0.001 of a cm, they'd have won well at a tough ground.
Its the manner of how the results happened that's concerning, throwing points away.

 

[acnumber9]

It would hardly be the first time in history that talented players under performed, would it?

The club isn't on a smooth path at the moment. I don't think Pochettino is happy at the club and that's dripping down to the players, and the likes of Eriksen are pretty much on strike.

Spurs have been declining for two years now. Maybe they aren’t as good as you think.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Spurs have been declining for two years now. Maybe they aren’t as good as you think.

Us declining doesn't mean we're not good/not better on paper than our top 4 rivals.

 

[acnumber9]

Us declining doesn't mean we're not good/not better on paper than our top 4 rivals.

But on paper isn’t really transferring to on the pitch by any great margin which is the point I’m trying to make. The way you talk about these players and the differences to Utd would make me think they should be a mile ahead. That they haven’t been means either the players aren’t as good as you think or the manager isn’t doing a good job.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

But on paper isn’t really transferring to on the pitch by any great margin which is the point I’m trying to make. The way you talk about these players and the differences to Utd would make me think they should be a mile ahead. That they haven’t been means either the players aren’t as good as you think or the manager isn’t doing a good job.

Right now Pochettino is not doing a good job with this group of players, yes. We're playing tumescent, slow football and are porous at the back with a group of players who are better than that.

Not because Pochettino is a bad manager, but imo because his negativity of late has seeped down to the players and he's simply lost his energy/drive to take the club forward.

They don't have the motivation anymore for the league. They'll still get themselves up for big CL matches or a derby like Arsenal, but the intensity isn't there week in week out in the league, not as it used to be. Kane presses like a madman still for England but practically drops in to midfield for Spurs. Eriksen is basically playing like he's on holiday, only a few who I think are still on board with Poch (like Lamela) are performing to or above their level.

The club needs a change, and so does Poch.

 

[Amadaeus]

See this argument doesn't really work. Lampard has spent nothing at Chelsea. Ole has significantly less net spend this summer than Pochettino...do you think the expectation on these two will be lower as a result? Do you think either would be in a job in 4 years time if they win nothing in that period?

It is not rocket science to assume something you have no evidence either way for, because it is just guess work. You are guessing that Pochettino would be a better manager if he spent more money. He's had a good enough squad to challenge for trophies for years now. He has spent quite a lot of money in the summer. Can you honestly say any of the signings they've made look like improvements?

Klopp isn't really comparable to Pochettino. He made Dortmund one of the best teams in the world and won two league titles and a cup with them despite having to compete with Bayern. He was a proven winner when Liverpool brought him in. You can see very obvious improvement from one year to the next from Liverpool under him. None of this can be applied to Pochettino.

Here in lies the problem with the Pochettino opinions on here though. People pinning their hats on him being the person to be succesful at United, then just ignoring anything that suggests he might not be. Things such as the fact we already have a manager who is currently doing better than him with arguably a weaker set of players. If we were currently without a manager I wouldn't be against giving Pochettino a chance, but we have a manager, and even if we didn't Pochettino already has a club.

You can’t compare the quality and spending of a club in just one window, when prior to this window, that specific club, spend fortune to build their current squad. It is like saying because Real Madrid has a transfer ban, the quality of their team will depreciate. Klopp even supported this argument, by saying the transfer ban didn’t affect Chelsea too much because of their past expenditures. Mount and Abraham for example are like £60m signings. So your argument doesn’t work because Ole and Lampard didn’t take over a club like Spurs, Everton, or West Ham. They took over a top club with a foundation of success already built.

N’Dombele has been a significant improvement to Sissoko or Winks, so that point is not even worth arguing about. Similarly, if Poch spent more, their squad will see further improvement. It is not rocket science.

It is hilarious how you state that none of that can be applied to Pochettino. Pochettino made Spurs into a top team and champions league finalists. Expected goals had Spurs premier league winners in the 16/17 season. Just like Klopp, Poch made a decent team, better with little investment. The similarities are there and those who don’t see it are just wumming.

Ole has to do better than Spurs, because he has invested significantly more and has better quality in depth. Since when has our standards drop that Spurs is now one of our rivals? That just shows the amazing job Poch has done because prior to him, Spurs was never one of our main competitors.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Are we seriously arguing over whether the signings we've made look like improvements?

Two of them have been injured, one of which hasn't even played a game.

The only one who has is Ndombele, who yes has been an improvement and yes has contributed. His only poor game has been against Olympiakos.

 

[GlastonSpur]

.. The future is much brighter at United than at Spurs …

I see.

Playing in the EL vs playing in the CL. A manager clearly out of his depth vs one of the most sought-after managers in world football. United still sitting below Spurs in the league table despite a much easier fixture list so far. And club income that is stalling vs a rapidly-rising club income.

If that's a "brighter" future then Donald Trump is a left-wing liberal.

 

[Amadaeus]

I see.

Playing in the EL vs playing in the CL. A manager clearly out of his depth vs one of the most sought-after managers in world football. United still sitting below Spurs in the league table despite a much easier fixture list so far. And club income that is stalling vs a rapidly-rising club income.

If that's a "brighter" future then Donald Trump is a left-wing liberal.

I meant with regards to youth players coming through the academy and making a breakthrough. If we keep hold of Ole, I don’t see a much brighter future. But, if we take Pochettino or maybe even a manager like Tuchel, then as a club we will definitely have a brighter future.

 

[GlastonSpur]

I meant with regards to youth players coming through the academy and making a breakthrough. If we keep hold of Ole, I don’t see a much brighter future. But, if we take Pochettino or maybe even a manager like Tuchel, then as a club we will definitely have a brighter future.

Pochettino isn't going to United.

So basically your "brighter future" claim rests on some alleged superiority of your youth players - of which there's precious little sign - and signing a manager "like" Tuchel. Good luck with all that.

 

[Amadaeus]

Pochettino isn't going to United.

So basically your "brighter future" claim rests on some alleged superiority of your youth players - of which there's precious little sign - and signing a manager "like" Tuchel. Good luck with all that.

You underestimate the power of the mighty euro. The brighter future remains on the fact that we are still a much bigger club than you and we just need to hire a manager as good as Klopp, Pep or Poch.

 

[Bearded One]

Poch must be feeling that he needs to give himself another challenge and so we must cash in. We need to be all over his face at this time in such a manner that the current manager and team do not get a wind of it to avoid demotivation.

I think he will be successful with us.

 

[Moiraine]

Poch must be feeling that he needs to give himself another challenge and so we must cash in. We need to be all over his face at this time in such a manner that the current manager and team do not get a wind of it to avoid demotivation.

I think he will be successful with us.

I think Ole would be given one more season. And I really don’t think Poch will take United’s job if offered. We have fallen so far behind the pack.

 

[Bearded One]

[QUOT⁷E="shahzadi, post: 24725511, member: 102058"]I think Ole would be given one more season. And I really don’t think Poch will take United’s job if offered. We have fallen so far behind the pack.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate your opinion but I think we have to begin to be very ruthless in our dealings. We cannot continue to be "nice" and still expect sharp changes.

I know that the proposition to come to United is no longer as attractive as it once was but can we at least try by throwing everything into it? Elite management was where Spurs Pool got it right after many years of being shite. Spus' team became worse when they had the Bale money to spend and even AVB is yet to recover from the effect of the hammer.

 

[Borussin]

Really not getting the comparisons with Klopp and Pep who have had budgets. Poch has done an amazing job at Spurs turning then into a regular CL side. Hopefully that time is over and he leaves to be replaced by some donkey who will restore balance to the force.

A couple season without CL football and they will need to sell players just to cover debt repayments. If Poch doesn’t turn it around nobody else will.

I' m really not getting why Klopp gets thrown in with Pep when it comes to transfers?

Klopp has spent around £400 mill at Liverpool.
Poch has spent around £300 mill at Spurs
Guardiola has spent around £550 mill at City.

Guardiola of course has been in the job the least time of the 3 as well, and took over by far the best team.

Obviously Guardiola hasn't had to consider selling players either, whereas as Klopp has, and has built as much through selling as buying, so I never get the comparison. Surely Klopp and Pochettino are more comparable. And in fact Poch had a better core of players at Spurs when he took over than Klopp did at LFC. It's strange to me the perception people have of some coaches in this league, like they don't know their history or what they took over. There's this perception of Poch as being some genius who took over a team of nothing players and built them up without spending. But that isn't the reality at all.

(And disclaimer - I think he's a terrific coach by the way, just don't get the way he's percieved here at times!)

I do think though that this is his last season at Spurs. It'd actually be a shame if this team that he mostly was able to keep together for the last 4 years end up winning nothing. They really should have, he's had a fantastic team to work with there. This is probably the last season that they have a chance of winning something as a group.

 

[Borussin]

Klopp is a chequebook manager. He spend the second most in Germany when he was there.
Poch is outspent by Everton,West Ham etc.

Let seen how Poch would get on if he could buy players for world record fees in there positions.

I don't even know where to begin with that

You know those teams he took to 2 league titles and a double, and to the CL final where built on a pittance don't you? Dortmund spent about £60 mill on playres in his first FIVE seasons there, and barely spent more than they earnt in sales. No idea what the 'spent the 2nd most' is based on? Compared to who? Are you talking about the 14 years he coached as a whole there? His 7 years at Dortmund? Or what? It's a mad statement.

You know Everton have spent more than Liverpool in the past few years too right? So they have been outspending Klopp during his time at Liverpool.

He is about as much of a chequebook manger as Poch is.

I get why some fans here though are desperate to percieve him as one, as it makes you feel better, cos you wish he was United manager, and that's ok, I get it. But it simply isn't true.

 

[thegregster]

I don't even know where to begin with that

You know those teams he took to 2 league titles and a double, and to the CL final where built on a pittance don't you? Dortmund spent about £60 mill on playres in his first FIVE seasons there, and barely spent more than they earnt in sales. No idea what the 'spent the 2nd most' is based on? Compared to who? Are you talking about the 14 years he coached as a whole there? His 7 years at Dortmund? Or what? It's a mad statement.

You know Everton have spent more than Liverpool in the past few years too right? So they have been outspending Klopp during his time at Liverpool.

He is about as much of a chequebook manger as Poch is.

I get why some fans here though are desperate to percieve him as one, as it makes you feel better, cos you wish he was United manager, and that's ok, I get it. But it simply isn't true.

He spent big money at Liverpool. 400mil+. Everton don't have the wage capacity to compete with Liverpool so it's not much of an argument.

Back when he was at Dortmund he was able to buy from a league that had little money. Clubs were grossly undervaluing their players. It's not as if Poch landed in a league that is producing cheap young players.

Do you think if Poch was allowed go out and spent 200m+ in the summer Spurs wouldn't be better off? He is never going to get that. Nor do they have the wage capacity Liverpool have.

I don't wish he was United's manager. He lacks class.

 

[cjj]

I' m really not getting why Klopp gets thrown in with Pep when it comes to transfers?

Klopp has spent around £400 mill at Liverpool.
Poch has spent around £300 mill at Spurs
Guardiola has spent around £550 mill at City.

Bit of a misrepresentation - In the last 5 seasons, Spurs and Liverpool are net ~£95m, whereas City's net is over £500m.

Klopp's figures are arguably skewed by the fact they've managed to sell a select few players for wild fees.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

He has been punching above his weight for many seasons and the results this season so far doesn't make him a bad manager all of a sudden. However I do agree he probably takes spurs as far as he can with the resource he has.

 

[Zoo]

...

 

[ArjenIsM3]

He'll be our saviour!

 

[tomaldinho1]

Wow

 

[charlenefan]

Wow things could start to unravel really fast unless they sort their shit out

 

[AshRK]

I think he has overstayed at spurs. Actually it would have been the best case scenario for us to appoint him this summer. He could have actually left spurs and maybe taken a break befote joining us or madrid or Bayern

 

[Guy Incognito]

Honestly think he'll go at the end of the season. Even if Spurs finish fourth.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Spurs now have to win the FA cup to ensure they don't go trophyless once again. That club is seriously allergic to trophies. I know we are shit right now and can't gloat but at least when we weren't we were winning stuff.

Spurs have a seriously good squad of players. Maybe not as good as City or Liverpool but definitely third best by far. Poch will be lucky to keep his job if they don't buck up.

 

[SuperiorXI]

He's worked wonders at Spurs. Severley over achieved. Top manager.

 

[SilentWitness]

That side was more than good enough to beat Colchester. Even more so when the subs came on. Terrible result and one more in the line that shows he's overstayed his time there. They just need to freshen up and restart. Both him and Spurs. They just look bored of each other.

 

[Bojan11]

They kept too many players in the last year of their contracts.

Didn’t Potch get rid of Walker because he didn’t want to be there? Yet he’s got three players that most likely don’t want to be there too currently. As great a job as he’s done, I think a change would be best for both parties.

 

[Zoo]

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[Walters_19_MuFc]

Spurs are as bad as us!

 

[Kush]

He'll be our saviour!

There are no guarantees in football of course but he's a much much superior manager to Ole.

 

[drdoityourself]

The best teams nowadays have a set system and quite a regular starting eleven. Been a long time since I've seen a settled Spurs team.

He seems defeated by now, the end is nigh.

 

[balaks]

I think it's nearly over now - I'd say if we dont win our next few matches he will be gone.

 

[charlenefan]

I think it's nearly over now - I'd say if we dont win our next few matches he will be gone.

Sacked or Quit?