I'm too old for football, mate.Is Pogba as good as gone?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
I'm too old for football, mate.As unpopular opinion as this will be...
If Pogba plays in this side, under this manager, 2 things happen -
1. He looks crap - because the manager and side are way below the level of the teams that his true peers play for.
2. He gets slaughtered by the institutionally racist British media and fans.
The Utd old-boys network, particularly Neville, have essentially sabotaged Pogba's image in the British press - they have used him as a constant scapegoat to deflect away from their mate's poor coaching abilities.
The guy was our top scorer and top assist maker last season... and ended the season being verbally abused by fans and constantly singled out negatively by the footy media - how does that even happen?
Could you name another club, ever, where this has happened? Suarez at Liverpool got less flack from the footy media ffs! And think about his behaviour vs Pogba's!
Even now - WITHOUT PLAYING - he's the focus... rather than the under-performing players and manager! Again - think how utterly ludicrous that fact is.
It is a toxic situation for an individual player to be in, and understandable that the player wants to leave ASAP.
The reality is that Elite players won't be up for playing for Solskjaer - whether that's unpopular or not, it's true.
And if you throw in to the mix scapegoating them and verbal abuse from fans, well... yeah.
If Pogba plays in this side, under this manager, 2 things happen -
1. He looks crap - because the manager and side are way below the level of the teams that his true peers play for.
2. He gets slaughtered by the institutionally racist British media and fans.
The Utd old-boys network, particularly Neville, have essentially sabotaged Pogba's image in the British press - they have used him as a constant scapegoat to deflect away from their mate's poor coaching abilities.
The guy was our top scorer and top assist maker last season... and ended the season being verbally abused by fans and constantly singled out negatively by the footy media - how does that even happen?
Could you name another club, ever, where this has happened? Suarez at Liverpool got less flack from the footy media ffs! And think about his behaviour vs Pogba's!
Even now - WITHOUT PLAYING - he's the focus... rather than the under-performing players and manager! Again - think how utterly ludicrous that fact is.
It is a toxic situation for an individual player to be in, and understandable that the player wants to leave ASAP.
The reality is that Elite players won't be up for playing for Solskjaer - whether that's unpopular or not, it's true.
And if you throw in to the mix scapegoating them and verbal abuse from fans, well... yeah.
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So where did I say awful grafters? Of course we need better players but we need players who are willing to work hard too. Sadly Pogba isnt willing to do that in a Utd shirt.
That's why I said he'll be gone at the end of the season.
He's injured. Pictured on crutches not long since. I was a little dubious myself but it seems legit. He wants to move to Real, I think that's obvious. They don't appear willing to come anywhere near to our valuation though so nothing is likely to change until his contract starts to run down.
They will probably come with cash + swap deal and if he is still very persistent on leaving and starts pushing for it, it will look kinda stupid for Ed to not take that deal if the player offered was good enough.
He's definitely injured currently though. He actually has been a professional regarding playing for the club, I will give him that. Though he still may end up leaving in Jan if Madrid really really wanted him that early.
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He's gone. Not that it really matters because United are gone too. It's fecking painful being a United fan in 2019.
Crazy post.
The media fall over trying to hype up Kante and he's as black as Pogba is. It has nothing to do with racism, Pogba simply comes off as an extremely unlikeable guy because of his pogboom antics, poor body language and extremely inflated sense of worth compared to what he has produced in a United shirt.
Suarez was hated in England for sure but it't much harder taking digs at someone like Suarez who literally carried his team. Something Pogba either refuses or is incapable of doing.
Dan James plays in this team yet creates chances, set pieces or goals every game. Pogba doesn't. So how can you blame the team making him look bad when a Championship player can do more by himself than almighty Pogbest?
Taking forever to get over a non injury on holiday. Will return early december and not be fit enough to play until January when he’ll be sold.
feck him. He's why you cant have players who act bigger than the club. Keano and Becks gave much more and more consistently over a longer period and were shown the door for acting too big or flirting with transfers away. Hes not a parch on either.
rip whoever wants him off for as much as possible for a lazy turn up once every four games waste of space. Undoubtedly very talented but feck all effort or application there so whats the point.
if have kai havertz straight in for him
feck him. He's why you cant have players who act bigger than the club. Keano and Becks gave much more and more consistently over a longer period and were shown the door for acting too big or flirting with transfers away. Hes not a parch on either.
rip whoever wants him off for as much as possible for a lazy turn up once every four games waste of space. Undoubtedly very talented but feck all effort or application there so whats the point.
if have kai havertz straight in for him
When you have a generational talent that’s a diva and plays when he feels like it, you either find a way to placate and make him feel special or sell him. When you allow him to remain in limbo he becomes a problem. Neither Mourinho nor Ole are good with dealing with these types of egos imo.
I get the point, I really do. But how is any of this relevant to Pogba's performances and general standing with the fans? He'll look crap because of his teammates not being good enough and he'll leave due to not rating Ole? I don't get it. I feel like Pogba stopped his development a good while back, I don't know why or what happened. I was waiting on those crossbar shots to go in the net the following season, never happened. I've waited to see if he would mature and become a more complete midfield player, capable of controlling a midfield, or at the least hold his own enough to show consistency in midfield. He hasn't.
I don't doubt he has been unfairly treated at times, but when he arrived everyone was happy. At some point, something about Pogba has changed peoples expectations about him. Selective viewpoints will always confirm our beliefs, so then you get this shit situation where you either have to defend him or hate him.. however, looking past all that bullshit, simply I believed he would become a great complete midfielder contributing consistently for us. He hasn't.
He wants to leave? I haven't been sad about the thought of that since he apparently wanted to go to City. He wont work under Ole? Wont work with this team? He wont work for United period is more fitting description, what fan want a player like that anyway? 'I'm the worlds best player, but I wont play for your team or prove that I am good enough because you all suck.' Yeah right. The fact he is talented isn't the question and personally I don't think he is what this team needs, not due to his talent but because the lack of consistency, and I'm not talking about stats. Rashford's stats is amazing for a kid his age, yet nobody is wanting to get obsessed about him if he doesn't improve his allround game soon, can't just keep living on moments forever.
We needed two last summer. 1 to replace the two that we lost and 1 we needed anyways to improve our midfield even if those two stayed. Saying only 1 to replace Herrera and Fellaini because McTomminay clearly has justified his place as a regular
i agree. He isn't the worlds best player. In fact, hes the best of the worst set of central midfielders i recall us ever having and thats about it. He's nowhere in the list of the best players or midfielders to play for us. He's nowhere in the list of the best players of all time or even the best premier league midfielders of all time. He’s meant to be at his peak right now. I’d say hes a 4 out of 5 star player on a good day and will just never consistently reach that top world class level.
I think it is more appropriate to say he is the worst out of the best. It does two things. It highlights his talent, his potential and our expectations for where a player of his calibre should be, but it also places him right at the bottom, even above a few less talented better performers for us, which again is speaking directly to why he is the absolute worst of the best.
But its all semantics, your point still stands.
If we think of the types of scholes, vieira, gerrard, lampard, de bruyne. Modric, pirlo, iniesta. Midfielders who can really control and influence games and dominate in 9 games out of ten. He just is a clear cut below. Not on the same planet.
Could really do with him back in the team. We'd instantly be more threatening, he could provide for our front 3 in ways that the alternatives can only dream of.
These are all different types of midfielders you listed, almost all of which had different styles at different points in their careers. So it's hard to know exactly which qualities you're talking about.
Comparing him to those players and it gets painfully obvious, yes he most certainly lack the consistency in performances. It feels weird to me saying because I think he had the potential and talent to surpass a good few of those, I'm certain he never will. We would have known by now. Going to Madrid who has won La Liga just a couple of times the last decade, and being apart of that shit show wont exactly put him in contention either. The road is the destination, something Pogba probably failed realising.
just being world class central midfield players. Regardless of style. Hes not. I dont even know how to quantify his style - maybe as a ‘dribble forward 30 yards and either smash the ball wildly into row zz with a shit shot or dribble into a cul de sac and not be arsed to track back as the opposition break away’ central midfielder
Hard to blame him solely when most players stagnate when coming here. He was on a very promising career trajectory before coming to Man Utd.
I would say he's like a lesser Zidane who obviously learned from Pirlo. In any case, I agree that since coming to play for us he hasn't developed to the level those players were perceived to have been. Unfortunate, but not unexpected.
think he quite simply thought he was the shit too soon and lost the right attitude. Development stalled totally along with application. Interesting that that fool mendy at city is just nowhere and has a similar attitude except Pep wont have it. He reminds me as well of players like Balotelli and Gascgoine who could just never get their head in the right place
I have no idea about his injury becuase we seemingly aren't supposed to get any updates about our star players injury status. However, he's definitely leaving in the summer. And so he should. Would be daft to waste all his best years at a sinking ship.
Agree. Said that previously I actually think he was more hard worker at Juve than at United, and was running his socks off back then to establish him as a top player. He became more lazy after we paid that much for him, then he won the World Cup, and I think that was it with the "World Cup winner" tag under his belt as immunity against any upcoming criticism.
Of course, he's still a quality, but he could have been one of the best midfielders if he wants to, but he looks like he's not interested anymore. Too much tactical set up needed to cover for his flaws which he has no excuse for not solving as he has enough physique and ability to do the dirty work on the pitch when he loses the ball.
It's shame that his talent has been wasted under a ton of excuses that I have no doubt got into his head eventually along side that world cup winner tag and ended up with him not achieving half of what he should have become.
He's done at United but his next move gonna be crucial if he wants to actually achieve what his talent should have been as he's 27 years old now. If he has the same problems in his next club as with United, people will look at his career in the future as kinda wasted with only Juve years being his good ones.
Pogba has always played with a languid gait. You guys are making stuff up now.
Blame him of what? Not progressing? In that case I disagree. I don't care to blame him for anything, and haven't done so but I'd weigh in on this and say it is more unfair to blame the club, they basically sacked a coach to keep him around and signed a smiley face to make him happy, cause Pogba happy means United win but that lasted how long? Herrera improved his game at the club, Fellaini did alright for such a limited player, Zlatan came in and did his thing. Sure some turn to shit and stay that way, but we don't harp on about Schneiderlin anymore do we, either you make it here or you don't, who's to blame is irrelevant unless it's systematic but I do disagree with any claim that it is.
We've hardly improved any players in quite a few years, so I'm curious why you think that isn't systematic. Although I'm not sure of exactly the reason for it, it's been happening pretty consistently for a while now, especially with younger players. Even your examples are few, and stretches at best.
Bad signings counts for a lot of the examples, like Bastian etc. That is the explanation I'll stick to, cause I don't know how you systematically stop talented players from shining at such a big club.
Then you have other players that developed really well but maybe wasn't suited to the league like Blind, or unlucky that not everyone liked the system suited to him. I seem to recall many players improving under Van Gaal due to tactical training, but not everyone was happy about applying themselves that much and from that unprofessional atmosphere a lot of bad spirit can manifest, which works for nobody. Same thing happened with Mourinho. That is as far as I can go explaining anything systematic.
Either way every different case has its individual explanations. I still see people sad about Blind leaving for instance, I'm not but that is just because he wasn't good enough when he was here for whatever reason. I would have loved to have him if he was, same with Pogba.
Must be crazy thinking pogba will leave without summer transfer saga for at least 3 windows. We need more quality midfield not reduce it.
Put it this way, you'd have to be certified braindead to be buying a United shirt with Pogba on it at this point.
He'll probably play a handful of times this season, with intermittent "injuries", and then be on his way in the summer, assuming Raiola cant engineer something in January.
He'll probably play a handful of times this season, with intermittent "injuries", and then be on his way in the summer, assuming Raiola cant engineer something in January.
I remember now that I considered buying a shirt with his name on it for my dad, but didn't because the whole thing of him coming here felt a bit insincere from the start really. I remember thinking he would spend a couple of years here developing into a beast then leave for Madrid like Ronaldo, I didn't believe the whole coming back once and for all thing, and decided I didn't want to risk feeling so attached to a player like that. It didn't turn out like that at all, to my eyes he hasn't developed enough to even earn himself a move like that anyways. But, I guess it was the plan from the start so we'll have to honour that initial view, and make belief Pogba wants out because of other reasons.
Couldn't care less tbh. Just sell him and get 2-3 players. Liverpool did it with Cou then why not us? Too much headache
Liverpool got a hefty offer. We at United neither get such offers nor our team can negotiate such kind of money.
Agree. I personally really like Pogba but he's not the right player for our current situation. He's skillfull, creative and a complete powerhouse who should be at a club challenging for honours but he also has a few weaknesses in his decision making and team play. And for a team that lacks cohesion and is evidently looking for a foundation and engine to build upon, he's not the ideal star man. Somebody like RVN (absurdly good goalscorer) or Keane (the complete CM) is a much more suitable talisman for a sleeping giant than Pogba.
Regardless, like I said, we need a midfield revamp and Pogba wants to go. It's best for all parties that he moves to Madrid and we sign 3 midfielders.
You take what you can. We can get 100 for him. I earlier said we should expect a world record fee but feck it - we need to move and sort out our twam. If we can hold out for 120 then great.
Imagine we had a manager who could actually coach the team and inspire passion to win in the players... even a guy like Allegri was able to use him properly, but we have washed Jose and Ole to try and get the best out of him. It clearly hasn't worked, we just need proper coaching staff and he will be immense.
We still will get 100m. That's enough to fund atleast 2 players. We don't have zero transfer budget.
I find it very difficult to believe he won't shine in a big way when he finally leaves this mess.
....the caf expecting Pogba to watch from the stands every game. Travelling for nothing.
He is doing his best, recovering as fast as he can, going to Dubai, personal coach, etc.
What the heck? What's wrong with that?
He is doing his best, recovering as fast as he can, going to Dubai, personal coach, etc.
What the heck? What's wrong with that?
Couldn't care less tbh. We are not competing for anything over the next years and he's being used completely wrong with some absolute shite players around him so there's really no point of even having him in the team. For Pogba to be at his best he needs quality around him and especially in the middle. That's why he shined at Juve and why he looked a lot better even here when Herrera was playing alongside him. I just hope we are able to get good money for him when he goes but his recent form and injury problems will most definitely lower the fee.