Is Pogba as good as gone?

[amolbhatia50k]

What black legends? Ole’s a greater legend than Andy Cole.

What's the point of this post?

A) who cares how big a legend Ole was as a player when discussing him as a manager?
B) why are we comparing him to 'black legends'?

 

[GBBQ]

He wasn't playing basketball in America and it's totally irrelevant to the idea of playing through injuries.

Ok he was playing basketball though, I just saw it was with Jimmy Butler and took it to mean he was in Miami.

If his ankle issue was so serious that he might have long term implications from using it he would not be playing basketball.

Do you think Pogba is respectful of the club that pays him, given his comments, his agents comments, playing basketball when he should be rehabbing, his social media bio not mentioning United?

 

[sammsky1]

If Pogba was British and played in that 80’s team he’d be a legend right now too.

What black legends? Ole’s a greater legend than Andy Cole.

Where’s the Cole legend banner? I wasn’t talking about good players was I. Viv Anderson was a great player he’s not a United legend.

I’m not even saying black players we had need to be legends but I just asked the question. Don’t know why you brought up Viv could have easily said Rio.

Given his performances Pogba would not be an 80s legend. SAF would have sold him long before. or he would have been like Neil Webb. Very forgettable. Cole is not revered like OGS because none of his goasl won us a last minute CL trophy. Does that really need explaining to you?

So anyone who doubts Pogba is anti black men or racist. AmIRite? Going by the above posts, you seem to have lost all objectivity on race issues.

 

[dirkey]

But how can you make that claim? Honestly it's shocking, you don't know how painful or uncomfortable it may be but you make that claim, you don't know what the long term consequences of playing through it are. You realize how daft that is, would you make that claim for anyone else without experiencing the same thing or even knowing precisely where the problem is?

I'm not making a claim. I'm merely stating what I think. I'm not saying it's a fact.

If another player was clearly using his agent to agitate for a move away from the club, then heading off to the US to play basketball while injured, missing a game due to injury and rather than stay behind for treatment nipping over to France to manage a charity game ... yeah, i'd probably think the same.

Again, not stating anything, it's my gut feeling.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If another player was clearly using his agent to agitate for a move away from the club, then heading off to the US to play basketball while injured

Wait, Pogba played an actual game of basketball whilst out injured? For real?

 

[Member 113277]

For what it's worth, the Sun is speculating Pogba is off and there could be a Pogba-Kroos switch, if he goes to Madrd.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10660460/pogba-man-utd-career-over-transfer-exit/

 

[Gehrman]

Ok he was playing basketball though, I just saw it was with Jimmy Butler and took it to mean he was in Miami.

If his ankle issue was so serious that he might have long term implications from using it he would not be playing basketball.

Do you think Pogba is respectful of the club that pays him, given his comments, his agents comments, playing basketball when he should be rehabbing, his social media bio not mentioning United?

We really don't know what the advice is from his physio and doctors. It's all conjecture. If you have a problem with your ankle, but still need to keep fit because your a professional athlete it's probably better to throw a ball than kick it.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

He has inspired us on many occasions.

Hmm. You see what you want to see, I guess.

Which goes both ways, by all means: confirmation bias and so forth.

But for me he really isn't that sort of player. To be that sort of player you have to do it more often than not. And you can't put in too many performances which makes people go "where the feck was he?"

Without bigging up Robbo too wildly, I can't remember United fans saying "yeah, Robbo went missing again - feckin' show pony". When Robbo was missing, he was generally not playing (injured - which he was frequently), he wasn't on the pitch with the match passing him by.

Again, I'm willing to cut Pogba plenty of slack for being a very talented player in a generally non-functional team. But I'm not willing to give him much credit as a "leader" on the pitch.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

He can't carry 10 men, if that is what you expect from him.

Christ you would think he is playing for Norwich, we are still 5th in the premiership which means there are only 4 better teams at the moment if my maths is correct and not all our players are useless.

 

[romufc]

Christ you would think he is playing for Norwich, we are still 5th in the premiership which means there are only 4 better teams at the moment if my maths is correct and not all our players are useless.

Please read the post in context.

It was meant fore the poster who said he needs superstars next to him.

PP has not delivered but blaming him is just pointless.

 

[Jeppers7]

No evidence? Keane got fecking fired.

Rooney only signed in 2003, won the FA cup in his first year. Rio signed in 2002 and won the league in 2003 and the fa cup the following year.

The mere fact you're comparing 2003-2006 when we finished 3rd (75 points), 3rd (77 points) and 2nd (83 points) with the current situation is absolutely mindblowingly dumb.

He's also stated that Rio considered leaving at the time. Had to be convinced by the greatest manager of all time to stay.

 

[GBBQ]

We really don't know what the advice is from his physio and doctors. It's all conjecture. If you have a problem with your ankle, but still need to keep fit because your a professional athlete it's probably better to throw a ball than kick it.

But he wasn't training, he was in jeans playing basketball. Like I said in an earlier post, players shouldn't have to play through injuries (though many do) but when the player in question has already said he wants a new challenge and his agent has trashed the club then you have to expect a reaction from the fan base when you post this stuff on social media. It raises the question if he is motivated at all to play for United or if he's wrapping himself in cotton wool so he can focus on his next move / Euros.

 

[Gehrman]

But he wasn't training, he was in jeans playing basketball. Like I said in an earlier post, players shouldn't have to play through injuries (though many do) but when the player in question has already said he wants a new challenge and his agent has trashed the club then you have to expect a reaction from the fan base when you post this stuff on social media. It raises the question if he is motivated at all to play for United or if he's wrapping himself in cotton wool so he can focus on his next move / Euros.

It's still all conjecture. If you ask me if he wants out, I say yes. If you ask me if he is feigning an injury I say no.

 

[dirkey]

Wait, Pogba played an actual game of basketball whilst out injured? For real?

I don't think it was a game of basketball, but wasn't there some footage of him playing it while in US? As I mentioned earlier, I might have that wrong! But pretty sure he did?

 

[JPRouve]

Ok he was playing basketball though, I just saw it was with Jimmy Butler and took it to mean he was in Miami.

If his ankle issue was so serious that he might have long term implications from using it he would not be playing basketball.

Do you think Pogba is respectful of the club that pays him, given his comments, his agents comments, playing basketball when he should be rehabbing, his social media bio not mentioning United?

Not really, first he was in Miami after the cast was taken off and was cleared for rehab where he would be able to resume most activities and you don't just rehab, it's only a few hours per day. Now that doesn't mean that the treatment succeeded, the only way to know that is when you actually go back to competitive sports with competitive intensity. Some pains, discomfort or physical reactions(swellings) can only occur under a certain level of intensity, that can't really be replicated outside of an official game.

I don't really care about what his social media bio mentions, in fact I don't care about his social media activity.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't think it was a game of basketball, but wasn't there some footage of him playing it while in US? As I mentioned earlier, I might have that wrong! But pretty sure he did?

No, he played few minutes of pick up basketball in street clothes. It wasn't an intense activity.

 

[Member 90887]

It's not a job that you do alone, he isn't failing to do anything when we have nothing resembling like a talented team. We all know it and that's why we have been moaning about the state of the squad in terms of lack of quality and depth. So unless you think that Pogba is supposed to scout future signings and negotiate their transfers, he isn't the one failing, none of our players are.

Of course he is failing to do what he was bought to do.

Do you really think that Pogba has been even close to what he was supposed to offer when we bought him for a record price ? not even close. He should have been the catalyser for the rebuilding. Instead, he has been extremely dissapointing.

Instead of making silly, insulting and rather silly comments, present a credible and even possibly, interesting response for other Cafe members to consider. That's how a forum works.

My comments are my opinions on Pogba at United.

What are yours?

I actually agree with several of the points you presented. I just find the bit about us not matching his supposed hunger for trophies a bit silly. He was seen as the player at the center of the rebuilding and rightly so, since he was bought for a large sum of money. He is one of the reasons the rebuilding is not working well (albeit a small part of the problem).

 

[GBBQ]

It's still all conjecture. If you ask me if he wants out, I say yes. If you ask me if he is feigning an injury I say no.

I never said he was feigning injury, just that he might not have the motivation to play through the pain (like other players have previously) because his focus is elsewhere.

Some pains, discomfort or physical reactions(swellings) can only occur under a certain level of intensity, that can't really be replicated outside of an official game.

Yes exactly, so not exactly putting himself at risk of Batistuta like injuries, its natural enough that a player would make that step up to full time competition to test how strong his ankle actually is. And likewise not completely unwarranted for fans to be concerned that he was playing basketball (in jeans so no part of rehab) nearly a month before he tried his ankle for United.

I don't really care about what his social media bio mentions, in fact I don't care about his social media activity.

You might not, but he does, so its clearly not a mistake that he doesn't reference United. Again all down to a lack of respect for the club.

 

[Gehrman]

Of course he is failing to do what he was bought to do.

Do you really think that Pogba has been even close to what he was supposed to offer when we bought him for a record price ? not even close. He should have been the catalyser for the rebuilding. Instead, he has been extremely dissapointing.

You don't build a team around Pogba. He's not Messi or Ronaldo. He excells when playing in a good team and he hasn't played in one. He's still by far been our most creative outlet despite being inconsistent.

 

[JPRouve]

Of course he is failing to do what he was bought to do.

Do you really think that Pogba has been even close to what he was supposed to offer when we bought him for a record price ? not even close. He should have been the catalyser for the rebuilding. Instead, he has been extremely dissapointing.

For me yes because I said it at the time, Pogba has never been the catalyser of any team and he wasn't worth a record fee in the first place. Your disappointment comes from your lack of knowledge of the player.

 

[Gehrman]

If Pogba was never good enough, why is it we want 150 mil for him? That's not the selling price for an average midfielder.

 

[JPRouve]

Yes exactly, so not exactly putting himself at risk of Batistuta like injuries, its natural enough that a player would make that step up to full time competition to test how strong his ankle actually is. And likewise not completely unwarranted for fans to be concerned that he was playing basketball (in jeans so no part of rehab) nearly a month before he tried his ankle for United.

DId you actually follow the post because you seem to not get what I said. The poster suggested that a player with an injury that he doesn't know could play through it. And I simply answered that unless you know what the extent of the injury and the diagnosis given this week are, you can't make that type of comment particularly when you don't even know what the long term consequences could be. Here you are talking about something that happened more than a month before the diagnosis.

 

[Member 90887]

How are we matching the ambition of a top player? How on Earth have you used that smilie there? Must be the dumbest use of that smilie ever on these boards.

Having ambition and failing to reach the objectives related to our ambition are two different things.

Do you honestly think that our ambition as a club is to be where we are right now ?

 

[JPRouve]

You might not, but he does, so its clearly not a mistake that he doesn't reference United. Again all down to a lack of respect for the club.

Why would that be a mistake, do players reference their clubs all the time or is it something that they have to do?

 

[dirkey]

No, he played few minutes of pick up basketball in street clothes. It wasn't an intense activity.

Ah, OK. I should have fact checked that piece so!

In saying that, pick up basketball can still be intense? If he was playing a proper game, there aren't many more games that are as bad for the ankle as basketball, lots of cutting and sharp movements.

 

[Jeffthered]

Hmm. You see what you want to see, I guess.

Which goes both ways, by all means: confirmation bias and so forth.

But for me he really isn't that sort of player. To be that sort of player you have to do it more often than not. And you can't put in too many performances which makes people go "where the feck was he?"

Without bigging up Robbo too wildly, I can't remember United fans saying "yeah, Robbo went missing again - feckin' show pony". When Robbo was missing, he was generally not playing (injured - which he was frequently), he wasn't on the pitch with the match passing him by.

Again, I'm willing to cut Pogba plenty of slack for being a very talented player in a generally non-functional team. But I'm not willing to give him much credit as a "leader" on the pitch.

I am not arguing with the Pogba - Robson comparison, because I fully agree, there is none. Bryan Robson was a super hero to me and always will be. Astonishing player for both club and Country.

Pogba today is an unfortunate situation, and at times he has not made things better, his attitude has at times been poor, like many around him. But the club set up has also been shoddy over the last few years. Hasn't helped anybody, and I do not think we have seen the consistent best (DDG aside..) from any United player for quite a few seasons now.

 

[Member 90887]

You don't build a team around Pogba. He's not Messi or Ronaldo. He excells when playing in a good team and he hasn't played in one. He's still by far been our most creative outlet despite being inconsistent.

I am not gonna disagree with this point, but that means nothing really when the other players in his position are Scott, Fred, Matic and you could add Lingard to that lot.

For me yes because I said it at the time, Pogba has never been the catalyser of any team and he wasn't worth a record fee in the first place. Your disappointment comes from your lack of knowledge of the player.

Far from it.

My disappointment comes simply from the fact that for me, he has been subpar. Way off what he should have offered.

 

[JPRouve]

Ah, OK. I should have fact checked that piece so!

In saying that, pick up basketball can still be intense? If he was playing a proper game, there aren't many more games that are as bad for the ankle as basketball, lots of cutting and sharp movements.

If it was a serious game maybe but in this case keep in mind that it was two or three weeks after the cast was removed, in theory he was cleared for all activities.

 

[JPRouve]

Far from it.

My disappointment comes simply from the fact that for me, he has been subpar. Way off what he should have offered.

Subpar what? If you thought that he was a catalyser then you had no clue about the player.

 

[Gehrman]

I am not gonna disagree with this point, but that means nothing really when the other players in his position are Scott, Fred, Matic and you could add Lingard to that lot.




Far from it.

My disappointment comes simply from the fact that for me, he has been subpar. Way off what he should have offered.

Pogba's goal and assist record is pretty good considering the team he has played in.

 

[Brophs]

Tweet

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I think we all knew that, one day, his slavish devotion to this club would be his undoing.

 

[The Firestarter]

Subpar what? If you thought that he was a catalyser then you had no clue about the player.

What's a catalyser? Catalyst ?

 

[GBBQ]

DId you actually follow the post because you seem to not get what I said. The poster suggested that a player with an injury that he doesn't know could play through it. And I simply answered that unless you know what the extent of the injury and the diagnosis given this week are, you can't make that type of comment particularly when you don't even know what the long term consequences could be. Here you are talking about something that happened more than a month before the diagnosis.

Eh the Poster stated that Pogba could have made a come back a lot sooner than he did (and specifically referenced the basketball match) so yes I did follow the post (and it wasn't about this week's diagnosis)

I think he probably has a slight injury that he could play through. I believe he could have come back a heck of a lot quicker than he did. I don't believe he has been putting everything into his efforts to get fit again - might be wrong, but wasn't there footage of him playing basketball while he had this 4 month ankle injury?

 

[JPRouve]

Eh the Poster stated that Pogba could have made a come back a lot sooner than he did (and specifically referenced the basketball match) so yes I did follow the post (and it wasn't about this week's diagnosis)

The first sentence of that post...

 

[JPRouve]

What's a catalyser? Catalyst ?

He used catalyser and I went with it.

 

[Gehrman]

I am not gonna disagree with this point, but that means nothing really when the other players in his position are Scott, Fred, Matic and you could add Lingard to that lot.




Far from it.

My disappointment comes simply from the fact that for me, he has been subpar. Way off what he should have offered.

But highligting how shit his team mates are is also the reason he wants to leave. He's not Bryan Robson and he doesn't want to be one.

 

[In Rainbows]

Ok he was playing basketball though, I just saw it was with Jimmy Butler and took it to mean he was in Miami.

If his ankle issue was so serious that he might have long term implications from using it he would not be playing basketball.

Do you think Pogba is respectful of the club that pays him, given his comments, his agents comments, playing basketball when he should be rehabbing, his social media bio not mentioning United?

No, he was shooting with no effort. That's completely different from actually playing basketball or doing run away jump shots. It would be like if Pogba was playing football on the streets, but the only thing he did was stand still and pass when the ball came to him. There's a difference.

 

[GBBQ]

The first sentence of that post...

Fair enough, misread it and was addressing the rest of the post. I stand by those comments and I really don't believe Pogba is arsed about getting back fit for United.

 

[dirkey]

The first sentence of that post...

I wasn't talking about this week's injury news. I was talking about the initial one, that he took 4 months to get over, or whatever it was.

 

[JPRouve]

I wasn't talking about this week's injury news. I was talking about the initial one, that he took 4 months to get over, or whatever it was.

To be fair that's not better what makes you think that he could have played through it? And the Miami thing is after a month of immobilisation and more than two weeks after the cast removal. At which point do you think that he could or should have played through it and why?