ISIS in Iraq and Syria

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
32,061
Location
Ginseng Strip
Except there's been no conquering lately, which would call into question the legitimacy of this view. If anything, the west is clearly interested in long term middle eastern democracy and stability to ensure uninterrupted commerce.
Their recent policy of arming questionable rebel groups while continuing to champion the most undemocratic of regimes like the Saudis and Bahrainis and turning a blind eye to the brutal bombing campaigns they're currently eliciting. That all seems to suggest the contrary.

You might have a point with 'uninterrupted commerce' if you meant keeping the military-industrial complex happy.
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
32,061
Location
Ginseng Strip
Picking a side and then arming them usually fails. But if the US doesn't do it then the Russians or the French will.
Backing a faction on one side of the border and them bombing them on the other doesn't just fail, its delusional.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,975
Location
Hollywood CA
Their recent policy of arming questionable rebel groups while continuing to champion the most undemocratic of regimes like the Saudis and Bahrainis and turning a blind eye to the brutal bombing campaigns they're currently eliciting. That all seems to suggest the contrary.

You might have a point with 'uninterrupted commerce' if you meant keeping the military-industrial complex happy.
The Saudis and Bahraini are allies to the extent that it's always preferable to have amenable governments who are willing to have a relationship and talk about policy than hostile governments with alternate regional goals.
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
32,061
Location
Ginseng Strip
The Saudis and Bahraini are allies to the extent that it's always preferable to have amenable governments who are willing to have a relationship and talk about policy than hostile governments with alternate regional goals.
If the West is genuinely interested in long term democracy they'd support opposition and pro-democracy movements in Saudi and Bahrain (they didn't) and as for stability, putting pressure on their Turkish allies to properly police the Turkey-Syria border and telling the Saudis to crackdown on influential Wahabi donors would go a long way to curbing the instability perpetuated by ISIS. They haven't done that either.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,975
Location
Hollywood CA
If the West is genuinely interested in long term democracy they'd support opposition and pro-democracy movements in Saudi and Bahrain (they didn't) and as for stability, putting pressure on their Turkish allies to properly police the Turkey-Syria border and telling the Saudis to crackdown on influential Wahabi donors would go a long way to curbing the instability perpetuated by ISIS. They haven't done that either.
Of course the west is interested in long term democracy as it enhances global commerce and creates a more suitable climate for trade and the promotion of values democratic societies espouse.
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
32,061
Location
Ginseng Strip
Of course the west is interested in long term democracy as it enhances global commerce and creates a more suitable climate for trade and the promotion of values democratic societies espouse.
Again, recent actions have suggested the contrary.

You can always trade with resource-rich despots and when has values ever come into it?
 

Grinner

Not fat gutted. Hirsuteness of shoulders TBD.
Staff
Joined
May 5, 2003
Messages
72,329
Location
I love free dirt and rocks!
Supports
Arsenal
Yanks only liked dictators because they were good for business and kept the commies at bay. That's no longer true and so democratic regimes are preferred. It's why they supported the Egyptian and Libyan uprisings and tried to topple Assad in the first place. If they hadn't fecked up Iraq so badly things would probably look very different.
 

holyland red

"Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"
Joined
Oct 19, 2001
Messages
19,098
Location
Haifa, Israel
Wounded Syrian killed when Druze lynch mob attacks IDF ambulance
For second time in 24 hours, Druze in northern Israel pelt ambulance with stones; two IDF soldiers lightly hurt in attack, one of the Syrian wounded killed.

For the second time in 24 hours, some 150 Druze protesters attacked and hurled stones at a military ambulance transporting wounded Syrian rebels near Majdal Shams in the Golan Heights on Monday night, killing one of the rebels.

Two IDF soldiers who were also in the ambulance, one of them an army doctor, were lightly hurt in the attack. Both Syrians were in serious condition when arriving in Israel. After the attack on the ambulance, both rebels were in critical condition, one of them succumbing to his wounds on the way to the hospital. The two soldiers were taken to the Ziv Medical Center in Safed, while the Syrians were airlifted to the Rambam Medical Center in Haifa.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4671371,00.html
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,396
Some on Twitter saying it was in response to rumours put out by the Syrian government that the Syrians receiving treatment were Jabhat al-Nusra fighters.
 

holyland red

"Holier-than-thou fundamentalist"
Joined
Oct 19, 2001
Messages
19,098
Location
Haifa, Israel
Some on Twitter saying it was in response to rumours put out by the Syrian government that the Syrians receiving treatment were Jabhat al-Nusra fighters.
IDF spokesman denied that Nusra people are treated in Israel, but then I wouldn't bet my life on that. I'm not sure one could tell if young men dropped on the Israeli border with serious injuries were FSA, Jabhat-Al Nusra or non-involved civilians.

It seems that recent tensions here involve a lot of disinformation regarding the state of Syrian Druze. There have been rumours that the Druze in Southern Syria could face massacres by Jihadists, and these have caused unrest among the Druze this side of the border. Some have even expressed their will to cross the border and defend their fellow Druze. Fortunately, the rumours have proved to be premature so far, and Jabel Druze is still not under attack.

Regardless, lynching should not be an option in a state of law.
 

Nick 0208 Ldn

News 24
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Messages
23,721
Islamic State spreads tentacles to Russia as Chechnya militants pledge allegiance to leader Baghdadi

New alliance marks first time the terror group has made a territorial claim in Russia and becomes the latest addition to its rapidly expanding portfolio of terror franchises

By Roland Oliphant, Moscow
24 Jun 2015


Islamic State has claimed a swathe of southern Russia as a “province” of its emirate after fighters there pledged allegiance to the group, opening a new front on Europe’s doorstep.

Thousands of Islamist fighters from the region this week pledged allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of Isil, in a video filmed in the Muslim republic of Chechnya.

Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, Isil’s spokesman, appointed a new "governor" of the Caucasus, calling on all “mujahideen” to recognise his authority “and obey him in everything except sin.”

The move appears to sideline the current leadership of the Caucasus Emirate, an umbrella group of smaller extremist groups in Chechnya, Daghestan and Ingushetia, who have fought to break away from Russian rule for decades.

Mr Adnani declared that the Caucasus would form a new province of the self-proclaimed Caliphate, marking the first time the terror group has made a territorial claim in Russia and becomes the latest addition to its rapidly expanding portfolio of terror franchises.

Al-Baghdadi called on jihadi fighters across the world to follow his lead in June of last year, when he declared himself head of the "Caliphate". Since then, dozens of groups in Africa, Asia and the Middle East have sworn allegiance.

Several thousand citizens of former Soviet states, including Chechens and other Russian citizens from the North Caucasus republics, are believed to be fighting alongside Isil and other groups in Syria and Iraq.

It is believed 400 Chechen extremists have died in battle fighting with Islamic State in Syria and Iraq since 2011.

The Caucuses Emirate, which is classified by the UK has a terrorist group and claims to have more than 15,000 fighters, has claimed responsibility for several terrorist attacks in Russia, including suicide bombings of the Moscow metro and Domodedovo airport in 2010 and 2011.

Terrorist attacks have waned in recent years as the group struggled under the twin pressures of a crackdown by the Russian security services and an outflow of fighters to Syria and Iraq.

Russian Caucasus-watchers fear the new affiliation with Isil could breathe new life into the insurgency that has recently been relatively stagnant.

“Part of it is clearly for the Caucasians to show the world that they are now part of a very powerful international organisation, and we may see some symbols of this union in the near future - and that could well come in the form of terrorist attacks,” said Alexey Malashenko, an expert in Caucasus affairs at the Moscow Carnegie Centre.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...nts-pledge-allegiance-to-leader-Baghdadi.html
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
32,061
Location
Ginseng Strip
Oh boy, the Chechen mentalists at it again.

If Russia could take care of them in the Caucus instead of them terrorising the Middle East in droves that would be swell.
 

Nick 0208 Ldn

News 24
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Messages
23,721
I should imagine that the Russian authorities have been quite happy for so many of these fighters to be otherwhere.

I can recall the Moscow theatre attack and Beslan siege, but has there been anything on a comparable scale since the mid-2000s?
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,396
Reports now that IS fighters have attacked Kobane from across the Turkish border.
 

milemuncher777

formerly kid777
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
5,156
Reports now that IS fighters have attacked Kobane from across the Turkish border.
They've also attacked and captured parts of Hassekah town.

Last year they lost Kobane and few days back YPG captured Tel Abeyd which was their key supply route in straight fight. So this cowards seems to have changed their approach, they know they will be beaten fair and square in straight battle so now they're trying to divert the attention and stretch the YPG units by attacking multiple Kurdish areas at same time.
 

Kaos

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
32,061
Location
Ginseng Strip
Turkey is the biggest cancer in the Middle East atm.
I'd argue the Saudis hold that accolade.

Turkey is actually a great nation with wonderful people, its just held back by its Quasi-Ottoman Islamist nutter and his links to Islamic extremists, and its treatment of minorities.
 

Ballache

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
17,233
Location
Stockholm/Beirut
Supports
Martial
I'd argue the Saudis hold that accolade.

Turkey is actually a great nation with wonderful people, its just held back by its Quasi-Ottoman Islamist nutter and his links to Islamic extremists, and its treatment of minorities.
I actually think that Saudi's influence has decreased recently and they're taking it out on the Yemanis. Of course I don't mean the people of Turkey, but Erdogan is an absolute twat.
 

MZX7

@Vato @Varun @moses @Hectic @Solius
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
1,977
Location
New York
It is all just politics. US invades Iraq for oil. Israel bombs innocent civilians for control of land.
ISIS c**ts want to a prove a point that isn't valid.
UK just wags it's tail at everything US orders off it.
Russia and China seek to form allies and advantageous business partnerships with countries with estranged US relations.
Saudi wants to be the dominant Arab country in the middle East but has no idea how. US promises help.
US has sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela because the leaders there had contrasting views not in line with US foreign policy.
India and Pakistan have differences because of sh** that occurred more than 67 years ago.

And in the meanwhile innocent people, looking to earn a living and worrying about things like food and Manchester United get slaughtered or face inflation.

The world is a fecked up place.
 

Tommy

bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
10,672
Location
Birmingham
Supports
Liverpool
They're destroying statues in Palmyra, a world heritage site, and one of the worlds most history-laden cities...




Some of the most magnificent artifacts from the history of our entire species, gone with the swing of a hammer.
 

milemuncher777

formerly kid777
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
5,156
Now this is good. Both of them just needs to get in full blooded war so IDF and IS blows each others heads off and the world would be a safer place.

Messing with Israel seems like a terrible idea... Fingers crossed they try it more often :D
Yep. What a terrible idea it'd be messing with those brave IDF soldiers who's speciality is killing innocent childrens, women and old.
 

Tommy

bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
10,672
Location
Birmingham
Supports
Liverpool
Terrible in terms of being overwhelmingly outpowered. It's like a Jack Russell taunting a lion.
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,396

Attila

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
11,073
Location
RIP Mino
Supports
Trad Bricks
I didn't expect ISIS to last this long.

What a terrible decision Bush+Blair made in invading Iraq all those years ago.