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2cents

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The Corinthian said:
He has some control, of course. How do you think it was only Ukrainian Jews that were given passage to Israel and not any Ukrainian non Jews?
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Did you read the Al Jazeera article you linked to?
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“Since the outbreak of the war with Russia on February 24, the Israeli government has called on Ukrainian Jewish refugees to immigrate to Israel and removed bureaucratic hurdles to secure their arrival as quickly as possible.​
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“We call on the Jews of Ukraine to immigrate to Israel – your home,” Israel’s Ministry of Immigration and Absorption said in a statement on February 26…​
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…“While it is important to recognise that there is a real refugee crisis in Ukraine,” which “everyone has a duty to care for”, Tatour said it must be noted that “Israel is not opening its borders for Ukrainian refugees – it is opening its borders for Jewish Ukrainian refugees…​
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…The efforts to relocate Ukrainian Jews have been funded and led by several arms of the Israeli government and partner institutions, including the semi-governmental Jewish Agency for Israel of the World Zionist Organization, as well as the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ).”​

The article doesn’t mention Zelensky once or place any degree of agency on the Ukrainian government in the matter. I find it bizarre that you could come away from reading that thinking “yeah, obviously Zelensky sent them to settle the Golan.”
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The Corinthian

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2cents said:
Did you read the Al Jazeera article you linked to?
​
“Since the outbreak of the war with Russia on February 24, the Israeli government has called on Ukrainian Jewish refugees to immigrate to Israel and removed bureaucratic hurdles to secure their arrival as quickly as possible.​
​
“We call on the Jews of Ukraine to immigrate to Israel – your home,” Israel’s Ministry of Immigration and Absorption said in a statement on February 26…​
​
…“While it is important to recognise that there is a real refugee crisis in Ukraine,” which “everyone has a duty to care for”, Tatour said it must be noted that “Israel is not opening its borders for Ukrainian refugees – it is opening its borders for Jewish Ukrainian refugees…​
​
…The efforts to relocate Ukrainian Jews have been funded and led by several arms of the Israeli government and partner institutions, including the semi-governmental Jewish Agency for Israel of the World Zionist Organization, as well as the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ).”​

The article doesn’t mention Zelensky once or place any degree of agency on the Ukrainian government in the matter. I find it bizarre that you could come away from reading that thinking “yeah, obviously Zelensky sent them to settle the Golan.”
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Why did you leave the second part of my post out? If he’s waxing lyrical about Israel as an inspiration then that’s a factor as well.
 

2cents

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The Corinthian said:
Why did you leave the second part of my post out? If he’s waxing lyrical about Israel as an inspiration then that’s a factor as well.
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Because it’s completely irrelevant to the statement you made that Zelensky sent Ukrainian Jews to Israel to settle the Golan.
 

calodo2003

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4bars said:
Exactly. A guess, But is not known. and how you can guess medical supplies and water because of the tunnels? Propaganda
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Jfc, you can look at someone’s house & surmise that there is medicine & food & water in it.

This isn’t hard.
 

The Corinthian

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2cents said:
Because it’s completely irrelevant to the statement you made that Zelensky sent Ukrainian Jews to Israel to settle the Golan.
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They’ve settled on stolen land and the Golan has been namechecked.

Whether Zelensky sent them or influenced it, I’m happy with where I stand on it, and you’re entitled to your view.

Whether he sent them or influenced the situation to settle in the Golan specifically that’s not what I meant, but I am typing from my phone.
 

berbatrick

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VorZakone said:
But...the Soviets were in favor of the creation of an Israeli state?
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Yes! It's interesting, but I haven't found much about it. But in terms of timing, I have a theory.

During the war, Stalin allowed the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee to be set up officially. These helped support the propganada war effort in the west, with a focus on Nazi atrocities including publicising what the Red Army found in the concentration camps and death camps.

After the war, Stalin found that the focus on the Holocaust of Jews was politically not beneficial to him - he wanted to highlight the millions of Russian/Slavic/Soviets killed, as an equal atrocity. His earlier experiment with Jews was to treat them as a nationality (like Ukrainians or Georgians), which means set up a semi-autonomous republic, for which he gave land in the Far East, near China. There were some tens of thousands of Jews moving there, but many did not leave their homes.

So I wonder if he felt Zionism was the "solution" to his Jewish "question". Stalin was, in contrast to most other Bolsheviks, not committed to third-world anti-colonial movements*, and this only increased after WW2, when his entire stance was about defending what he had conquered, rather than the ideological spread of communism. He didn't lift a finger to help Mao in the Chinese Civil War after it restarted in 1945. The Arabs inhabiting Palestine weren't even Communist, and the armies that later backed them were regressive royals. So this aspect, I don't think bothered him one bit.

The reason the timing matters is 1948, when he voted for Israel at the UN, and then shipped them arms, is also when he disbanded the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee officially, and he would soon start an anti-semitic purge, known as the doctors' plot (where he killed most of those involved in the Committee), which ended only with his death.


*I know this because he made every third-world communist party tie itself in knots trying to follow the Soviet line on Nazism - first, it is a mutation of social democracy, then, we need to form a broad progressive front with social democrats to defeat it, then, it is not the main threat, unlike the west, finally, it is an existential threat to communism and working people worldwide. Trying to follow and explain this nonsense fatally discredited most foreign Communist parties. The Indian one backed British rule after Barbarossa, while Gandhi and lakhs of others were in jail.
 

owlo

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berbatrick said:
Yes! It's interesting, but I haven't found much about it. But in terms of timing, I have a theory.

During the war, Stalin allowed the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee to be set up officially. These helped support the propganada war effort in the west, with a focus on Nazi atrocities including publicising what the Red Army found in the concentration camps and death camps.

After the war, Stalin found that the focus on the Holocaust of Jews was politically not beneficial to him - he wanted to highlight the millions of Russian/Slavic/Soviets killed, as an equal atrocity. His earlier experiment with Jews was to treat them as a nationality (like Ukrainians or Georgians), which means set up a semi-autonomous republic, for which he gave land in the Far East, near China. There were some tens of thousands of Jews moving there, but many did not leave their homes.

So I wonder if he felt Zionism was the "solution" to his Jewish "question". Stalin was, in contrast to most other Bolsheviks, not committed to third-world anti-colonial movements*, and this only increased after WW2, when his entire stance was about defending what he had conquered, rather than the ideological spread of communism. He didn't lift a finger to help Mao in the Chinese Civil War after it restarted in 1945. The Arabs inhabiting Palestine weren't even Communist, and the armies that later backed them were regressive royals. So this aspect, I don't think bothered him one bit.

The reason the timing matters is 1948, when he voted for Israel at the UN, and then shipped them arms, is also when he disbanded the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee officially, and he would soon start an anti-semitic purge, known as the doctors' plot (where he killed most of those involved in the Committee), which ended only with his death.


*I know this because he made every third-world communist party tie itself in knots trying to follow the Soviet line on Nazism - first, it is a mutation of social democracy, then, we need to form a broad progressive front with social democrats to defeat it, then, it is not the main threat, unlike the west, finally, it is an existential threat to communism and working people worldwide. Trying to follow and explain this nonsense fatally discredited most foreign Communist parties. The Indian one backed British rule after Barbarossa, while Gandhi and lakhs of others were in jail.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_anti-Zionism was an interesting read when I googled it earlier. Can't speak to the accuracy.
 

Sir Matt

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So what was apparently a quiet campaign behind the scenes to dissuade Netanyahu from a full ground invasion failed, and Israel is now going to make a costly humanitarian mistake.
 
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Desert Eagle

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Piece of trash Netinyahu is going to keep killing people on both sides with his evil incompetence. Hope someone puts a bullet in his skull.
 

frostbite

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Slain Hamas militants’ body camera videos show the preparation and tactics behind their terror attack on Israel

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/middleeast/hamas-attack-body-cam-videos-invs-dg/


“I don’t think Hamas wanted us to see” the videos of attacks on civilians, said Gina Ligon, a counterterrorism expert who analyzed the footage for CNN. “That is not congruent with their narrative that they’re defenders of Palestine — that was terrorism.”
 

Bert_

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The Corinthian said:
They’ve settled on stolen land and the Golan has been namechecked.

Whether Zelensky sent them or influenced it, I’m happy with where I stand on it, and you’re entitled to your view.

Whether he sent them or influenced the situation to settle in the Golan specifically that’s not what I meant, but I am typing from my phone.
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Zelensky wants a Ukrainian version of Iron Dome for obvious reasons. Him sucking up to the Israelies to help him get his hands on that is an obvious play. His only priority is Ukraine's survival.

What has that got to do with Ukrainian Jews migrating to Israel or their settlements though? Has he encouraged them to do so? Seems counterproductive when you need man-power to fight a war.
 

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frostbite said:
Slain Hamas militants’ body camera videos show the preparation and tactics behind their terror attack on Israel

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/middleeast/hamas-attack-body-cam-videos-invs-dg/


“I don’t think Hamas wanted us to see” the videos of attacks on civilians, said Gina Ligon, a counterterrorism expert who analyzed the footage for CNN. “That is not congruent with their narrative that they’re defenders of Palestine — that was terrorism.”
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So, they filmed the footage for their personal jackoff archives?
 

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Jim Beam said:
Croatia voting against it?? Absolutely and fully ashamed seeing this, feck my government and everyone involved in such decision. If there was ever a confirmation we are run by bunch of evil, corrupted and calculated sociopaths, there you go.
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I am actually disgusted by Croatia, I have lot of connection with Croatia and can't even watch it with same eyes anymore.

And what's worse is that this doesn't even look like big news there, why aren't your people protesting? :o

Austria is also nothing country, I am not surprised.
 

nickm

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The Corinthian said:
They’ve settled on stolen land and the Golan has been namechecked.

Whether Zelensky sent them or influenced it, I’m happy with where I stand on it, and you’re entitled to your view.

Whether he sent them or influenced the situation to settle in the Golan specifically that’s not what I meant, but I am typing from my phone.
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So in summary even though Zelensky may or may not ACTUALLY be a Zionist, he’s a Jew so feck it, he’s a still a Zionist.
 

calodo2003

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4bars said:
How? And If so, why dont only bomb those houses?
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My god. Because those necessities are crucial for those living in the house to survive? Why would materiel to support a larger military force be any different in composition?

Targets, men & their supplies, aren't always stationary, you know?
 

TheReligion

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I find it strange Israel seems to think that hostages are alive. Obviously they will be subject to intelligence from the US but let’s be honest it’s highly likely they are all dead.

There’s been no proof of life (to my knowledge) since they were taken, no indication where they are being held and Hamas have even said they have killed some of them in response to the bombing. When you add this to the fact Gaza is under siege with no food, water or power, it seems more likely the hostages will all be dead.

If Israeli had any idea where they were then they’d have sent special forces in a long while ago rather than blanket bomb the area.
 

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TheReligion said:
I find it strange Israel seems to think that hostages are alive. Obviously they will be subject to intelligence from the US but let’s be honest it’s highly likely they are all dead.

There’s been no proof of life (to my knowledge) since they were taken, no indication where they are being held and Hamas have even said they have killed some of them in response to the bombing. When you add this to the fact Gaza is under siege with no food, water or power, it seems more likely the hostages will all be dead.

If Israeli had any idea where they were then they’d have sent special forces in a long while ago rather than blanket bomb the area.
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But some have been being released? I think it’s still likely that some are alive. I do sense some might be dead - be it to garner obedience from the rest, from friendly fire (Israeli strikes), or otherwise. But I would highly doubt they’re all dead.
 

Jim Beam

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Amar__ said:
I am actually disgusted by Croatia, I have lot of connection with Croatia and can't even watch it with same eyes anymore.

And what's worse is that this doesn't even look like big news there, why aren't your people protesting? :o

Austria is also nothing country, I am not surprised.
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It did came out last night as one of major news in most outlets and many people are disgusted with the decision reading through it this morning. Our government usually suck it up to EU in recent years, so this is a bit strange, but obviously we are not strangers sucking it up to USA as well if they give us a pat on the back. You won't find us holding our ground when it comes to politics that's for sure. However and considering there was a war here 30 years ago you would thought there would be (at the very least) some sensible thinking before you vote this way.

As for the protests, most people are generally apathetic. We barely raise our voices when it comes to huge cases of corruption that directly concern us. Tbf, there was a huge protest just few days ago in Zagreb in support of Palestine and against the killing/genocide. I also can't deny anymore there is a strong nationalistic, xenophobic (including Islamophobia) views in some people's mind that are pretty noticeable. I like to think (and hope) they are in minority, but they are certainly loud as it is always the case with people who hold radical right-wing views.
 

TheReligion

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rpitroda said:
But some have been being released? I think it’s still likely that some are alive. I do sense some might be dead - be it to garner obedience from the rest, from friendly fire (Israeli strikes), or otherwise. But I would highly doubt they’re all dead.
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I wasn’t aware some had been released. When was this?
 
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