Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[Amir]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Does he expect the dead to complain?

 

[Idxomer]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Does he expect the dead to complain?

Probably just the injured and the released hostages?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Probably just the injured and the released hostages?

It's a funny line but not much of a point:

Israeli Police Ask Victims and Witnesses to Testify About Hamas Sexual Violence - January 4th, 2024.
Israel's police investigators are having difficulties finding living victims of or witnesses to sexual assault committed by Hamas on October 7, due to the fact that many of the victims were killed that day, taken hostage or are in a state of psychological distress and unable to testify.

"We have circumstantial indications that there are victims who are still alive who haven't contacted us yet," said Superintendent Adi Edri, normally an investigator in the unit that handles online sex crimes against minors, who is currently in charge of investigating sexual assault committed during the massacre. "That's why we have turned to the media. We didn't do this lightly."

 

[roseguy64]

Yes, its basically red meat among pro-Hamas accounts, but almost certainly not likely grounded in any reality, particularly among those who understand how the military works. Klippenstein's piece was pretty balanced though I thought.

Which pro-Hamas accounts are these?

 

[Dumbstar]

Victims of Gaza City attack say they were ambushed

The more we talk to people about what happened during the attack near Gaza City this morning, the more it becomes clear they feel it was a trap, an ambush.
As soon as people approached incoming trucks carrying food aid, they were shot at. There were attack drones in the sky. There was also fire from naval forces and armoured vehicles in the vicinity.
All at once, these military forces fired at a group of people who were hungry, traumatised and displaced. People who were just trying to get their hands on whatever they could to feed their families and stay alive.
The number of dead from the attack has now risen to 104 and there are still, unfortunately, injured people left on the road. Paramedics, civil defence crew and volunteers are trying to help get these people to hospitals, but are finding it very difficult to get to the area. We are expecting the number of casualties to increase even more in the coming hours.
This is what is left for people in northern Gaza – face starvation or risk one’s life trying to get aid.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/live...of-children-in-slow-motion-ngo?update=2740245

If you still don't believe in The Devil or anti Christ I don't know what will convince you.

 

[Kaos]

Everytime I see this thread bumped I'm reminded of a quote I heard of the Charlie Rose show 20 years ago: "The Israelis will always win, and the Palestinians will always be there to make sure they don't enjoy it"

Maybe the solution is to let them fight it out once and for all and the rest of the world take any refugees that want to leave. This nearly century old conflict needs to stop.

That's precisely what the world is doing though. Except this isn't some balanced, symmetrical war between two armies. Its a regional miltiary superpower backed by a global superpower waging a campaign of destruction on a largely civilian population, claiming they're targeting an existential threat, with said threat being a bunch of militiamen with rudimentary homemade weapons. By letting it play out you're essentially advocating for the the Israeli/US end game, which is the full ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinian population, hoping neighbouring countries take in the fleeing Palestinians as refugees.

There is a simple way to end this conflict - end the occupation of Palestinian territories, give the Palestinians their nation, and insist Israel withdraw from their colonial settlements and declare their borders. Until the US decides it doesn't want to sponsor a genocide and actually twist Israel's arm in behaving like a civilised nation, then we're only going to see this suffering prolonged, or the Palestinians cleansed from the land.

 

[Badunk]

From the BBC:

An Israeli military source says Israeli soldiers opened fire as some in the crowd moved towards them in a way that was "endangering the troops"
Israeli government spokesperson Avi Hyman has described what happened as a "tragedy" and said initial indications were that the deaths were caused by delivery trucks "ploughing into crowds of people" waiting for aid to be distributed
Meanwhile, an IDF statement said residents surrounded aid trucks prior to the incident and "looted supplies", and dozens were killed as a result of "pushing, trampling and being run over by the trucks"

All they ever do is murder, then lie about it, get caught out lying and then shrug their shoulders. Absolutely despicable cnuts of the highest order.

 

[Dumbstar]

From the BBC:

An Israeli military source says Israeli soldiers opened fire as some in the crowd moved towards them in a way that was "endangering the troops"
Israeli government spokesperson Avi Hyman has described what happened as a "tragedy" and said initial indications were that the deaths were caused by delivery trucks "ploughing into crowds of people" waiting for aid to be distributed
Meanwhile, an IDF statement said residents surrounded aid trucks prior to the incident and "looted supplies", and dozens were killed as a result of "pushing, trampling and being run over by the trucks"

All they ever do is murder, then lie about it, get caught out lying and then shrug their shoulders. Absolutely despicable cnuts of the highest order.

There is no word that describes them. Cnuts just isn't strong enough.

Rest in power Aaron Bushnell

 

[Sly]

A huge massacre happened, and the scenes are harrowing which is why I won't post any tweets.

They fired on thousands waiting for aid, at least 77 Palestinians were killed and 250 wounded.

This is awful. No humanity, horrible times. I barely go to Twitter anymore because this conflict is really taking a toll on me. It's just massacres, after massacres, children starving, people getting shot with white flags, parents crying for their children buried in rubble, a daily occurrence that doesn't stop. These people have been abandoned by the world and any western high ground has been lost forever.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Ah the terrorism and genocide continues unabated. Barbaric subhuman cnuts.

 

[Badunk]

They're saying people were run over by trucks deliberately or were so impatient for the aid that they got run over by accident. Yet there's gunfire galore in the footage. It's just incredible the brass neck on them to lie so blatantly when the evidence is there for all to see. It's like an army of Boris Johnsons with the latest weaponry and a hatred for Palestinians.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

It's a funny line but not much of a point:

Israeli Police Ask Victims and Witnesses to Testify About Hamas Sexual Violence - January 4th, 2024.
Israel's police investigators are having difficulties finding living victims of or witnesses to sexual assault committed by Hamas on October 7, due to the fact that many of the victims were killed that day, taken hostage or are in a state of psychological distress and unable to testify.

"We have circumstantial indications that there are victims who are still alive who haven't contacted us yet," said Superintendent Adi Edri, normally an investigator in the unit that handles online sex crimes against minors, who is currently in charge of investigating sexual assault committed during the massacre. "That's why we have turned to the media. We didn't do this lightly."

Seems a bit convenient.

 

[Kaos]

They're saying people were run over by trucks deliberately or were so impatient for the aid that they got run over by accident. Yet there's gunfire galore in the footage. It's just incredible the brass neck on them to lie so blatantly when the evidence is there for all to see. It's like an army of Boris Johnsons with the latest weaponry and a hatred for Palestinians.

They lie simply because they get away with it, knowing whatever nonsense spews from their genocidal mouths gets accepted as gospel by the Western powers. Why bother holding back on murdering and terrorising a desperate civilian population when some Israeli spokesman can conjure up some convenient portrayal of events that they know will be accepted as the objective truth. Knowing full well their allies, to quote Boris Johnson, will 'consider this matter closed'.

 

[Idxomer]

They lie simply because they get away with it, knowing whatever nonsense spews from their genocidal mouths gets accepted as gospel by the Western powers. Why bother holding back on murdering and terrorising a desperate civilian population when some Israeli spokesman can conjure up some convenient portrayal of events that they know will be accepted as the objective truth. Knowing full well their allies, to quote Boris Johnson, will 'consider this matter closed'.

It's not even convenient. Even in their contradicting versions, they are responsible. The leading terrorist in their government put out a statement praising his army of cnuts for their actions.

 

[Kaos]

It's not even convenient. Even in their contradicting versions, they are responsible. The leading terrorist in their government put out a statement praising his army of cnuts for their actions.

Even then their allies will do all the leg work to absolve their culpability. We'll still see the usual BBC headlines of 'Palestinians found dead' and 'young Palestinian adult lost their lives'.

 

[Idxomer]

Even then their allies will do all the leg work to absolve their culpability. We'll still see the usual BBC headlines of 'Palestinians found dead' and 'young Palestinian adult lost their lives'.

Yeah, I'm not disputing that. CNN described it as a chaotic incident.

 

[Kyonn]

That's precisely what the world is doing though. Except this isn't some balanced, symmetrical war between two armies. Its a regional miltiary superpower backed by a global superpower waging a campaign of destruction on a largely civilian population, claiming they're targeting an existential threat, with said threat being a bunch of militiamen with rudimentary homemade weapons. By letting it play out you're essentially advocating for the the Israeli/US end game, which is the full ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinian population, hoping neighbouring countries take in the fleeing Palestinians as refugees.

There is a simple way to end this conflict - end the occupation of Palestinian territories, give the Palestinians their nation, and insist Israel withdraw from their colonial settlements and declare their borders. Until the US decides it doesn't want to sponsor a genocide and actually twist Israel's arm in behaving like a civilised nation, then we're only going to see this suffering prolonged, or the Palestinians cleansed from the land.

Maybe the world is letting the first part play out but is it letting in reguees?

 

[Kaos]

Maybe the world is letting the first part play out but is it letting in reguees?

The Western world has no desire to take in refugees who aren't Ukrainian atm, as for the Arab world, its essentially a red line for them. Firstly because they aren't capable of housing millions of Palestinian refugees (some of which currently do), but also ultimately because in doing so would dignify Israel's attempts to ethnically cleanse the native Palestinian population. We should be pushing for an autonomous state the Palestinians can call their home, without the barbaric treatment and subjugation from Israelis, not cheerleading Israel's attempt to colonise the entire territory for their settlers. And yes, letting this play out as is would be to default to the latter stance.

 

[Idxomer]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Idxomer]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Giggsyking]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Steal more land and homes of Palestanians.

 

[Giggsyking]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Vomiting emoji.

 

[Kyonn]

The Western world has no desire to take in refugees who aren't Ukrainian atm, as for the Arab world, its essentially a red line for them. Firstly because they aren't capable of housing millions of Palestinian refugees (some of which currently do), but also ultimately because in doing so would dignify Israel's attempts to ethnically cleanse the native Palestinian population. We should be pushing for an autonomous state the Palestinians can call their home, without the barbaric treatment and subjugation from Israelis, not cheerleading Israel's attempt to colonise the entire territory for their settlers. And yes, letting this play out as is would be to default to the latter stance.

Definitely not "cheerleadering". Not taking either side. I'm just old enough to have seen these two fight this out for way to long. I gave up on a Palestinian state back in the late 90s. There is zero good guys in this conflict.

 

[Giggsyking]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[The Corinthian]

Definitely not "cheerleadering". Not taking either side. I'm just old enough to have seen these two fight this out for way to long. I gave up on a Palestinian state back in the late 90s. There is zero good guys in this conflict.

There's quite clearly good guys, such as the innocent Palestinian women and children being murdered in front of our eyes. This 'both sides' and 'as bad as each other' schtick is nonsense.

 

[Kyonn]

There's quite clearly good guys, such as the innocent Palestinian women and children being murdered in front of our eyes. This 'both sides' and 'as bad as each other' schtick is nonsense.

That singular woman isn't a side. There two sides, the Israelis and the Palestinians. And while what the Israelis are doing is horrific let's stop pretending the Palestinians are blameless. The Oct attacks were Israel's Pearl Harbor. At least so far, they haven't dropped two atomic bombs

 

[Mike Smalling]

Everytime I see this thread bumped I'm reminded of a quote I heard of the Charlie Rose show 20 years ago: "The Israelis will always win, and the Palestinians will always be there to make sure they don't enjoy it"

Maybe the solution is to let them fight it out once and for all and the rest of the world take any refugees that want to leave. This nearly century old conflict needs to stop.

What a disgusting take.

 

[Kyonn]

What a disgusting take.

Well feel free to be disgusted. Let see if it makes any difference to my life or anyone else's.

 

[JPRouve]

Definitely not "cheerleadering". Not taking either side. I'm just old enough to have seen these two fight this out for way to long. I gave up on a Palestinian state back in the late 90s. There is zero good guys in this conflict.

If you gave up on a Palestinian state then you are siding with Israel.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Well feel free to be disgusted. Let see if it makes any difference to my life or anyone else's.

I agree, the ones that are already actively supporting a genocide are typically not going to be swayed.

 

[Kyonn]

If you gave up on a Palestinian state then you are siding with Israel.

I'm not. Where did I say or imply I was?

 

[Idxomer]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

War criminal.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

That singular woman isn't a side. There two sides, the Israelis and the Palestinians. And while what the Israelis are doing is horrific let's stop pretending the Palestinians are blameless. The Oct attacks were Israel's Pearl Harbor. At least so far, they haven't dropped two atomic bombs

They constitute the vast majority both of the living and the slain and it's perfectly possible to be on their side.

 

[Kyonn]

They constitute the vast majority both of the living and the slain and It's perfectly possible to be on their side.

Fine, if you take that POV I still say the best course of action is to lobby your government to take them in refugees.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Fine, if you take that POV I still say the best course of action is to lobby your government to take them in refugees.

The best course of action is for Israel to stop killing them in their thousands.

 

[Kyonn]

The best course of action is for Israel to stop killing them in their thousands.

But that's not a option that either of can take

 

[Kaos]

I'm not. Where did I say or imply I was?

Here?

Definitely not "cheerleadering". Not taking either side. I'm just old enough to have seen these two fight this out for way to long. I gave up on a Palestinian state back in the late 90s. There is zero good guys in this conflict.

Not meaning to sandbag you in anyway, but this is unfortunately a 'conflict' where the whole 'I'm not taking a side' approach defaults to an acceptance of the status quo, which historically has been the occupation, subjugation and oppression of the native Palestinian population, and more recently an ongoing genocide.

This isn't some symmetrical 'fight' that has been going on for decades. Its always been a regional superpower backed by a global superpower oppressing and gradually withering away a mostly helpless and increasingly desperate civilian population, who in their desperation often turn to hit and run tactics and occasional acts of terror.

For me this tragedy isn't a particularly complicated one. You either support the Palestinian right to a nation which is theirs by birth and generational ancestry, or you accept the Israeli drive to pillage, occupy and drive out what remains of them. This isn't a conventional clash of heads between two equally sparring adversaries over trivial border disputes.

 

[Idxomer]

Comparing Pearl Harbor to what happened in October is one of the most baffling things I've read here, and we have had our share of nonsensical takes in here.

 

[Kyonn]

Here?



Not meaning to sandbag you in anyway, but this is unfortunately a 'conflict' where the whole 'I'm not taking a side' approach defaults to an acceptance of the status quo, which historically has been the occupation, subjugation and oppression of the native Palestinian population, and more recently an ongoing genocide.

This isn't some symmetrical 'fight' that has been going on for decades. Its always been a regional superpower backed by a global superpower oppressing and gradually withering away a mostly helpless and increasingly desperate civilian population, who in their desperation often turn to hit and run tactics and occasional acts of terror.

I gave up on the idea of a two state solution not because I took Israel's side but because I realized by the late 90s that there was no two state solution that both side would agree to. I take no side in this.