Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[owlo]

Protesters mass outside Israeli PM Netanyahu's house as anger grows

“…On Saturday, a poll for Israel's Channel 13 Television found 76% of Israelis thought Netanyahu, now serving a record sixth term as prime minister, should resign and 64% saying the country should hold an election immediately after the war…”

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...i-pm-netanyahus-house-anger-grows-2023-11-04/

Not sure if I’ve mentioned it before, but I do wonder if this is his last dance, being brutally aggressive because he knows he’s gone anyway.

Oh I didn’t see that. Cheers.

Hey at least he changed it from people calling for a ceasefire from the UK on nazi germany… small wonders.

The 2nd post is probably quite accurate though about the anger internally in Israel. It’s why people who think the US could just tell them to stop are wrong. You can clearly see his bias though. (Although is that a bad thing)

 

[Frosty]

Not sure if I’ve mentioned it before, but I do wonder if this is his last dance, being brutally aggressive because he knows he’s gone anyway.



Hey at least he changed it from people calling for a ceasefire from the UK on nazi germany… small wonders.

The 2nd post is probably quite accurate though about the anger internally in Israel. It’s why people who think the US could just tell them to stop are wrong. You can clearly see his bias though. (Although is that a bad thing)

Good call, since half the political establishment were in favour of that in 1940.

 

[Amir]

Not sure if I’ve mentioned it before, but I do wonder if this is his last dance, being brutally aggressive because he knows he’s gone anyway.

If anything, he's being aggressive because it's the only way he'll be able to claim victory that might satisfy his voters.

 

[4bars]

If the West thinks that they're coming out of this unscathed, they're in for a rude awakening.

Why do you think so and what do envision that the west will pay for it?

 

[owlo]

Good call, since half the political establishment were in favour of that in 1940.

Of a negot peace/surrender to stop the blitz, or of a humanitarian ceasefire to stop killing German civilians?

If anything, he's being aggressive because it's the only way he'll be able to claim victory that might satisfy his voters.

I think even Bibi might know he’s done this time, though the stockholm syndrome is understandable. He’s like a turd that just won’t flush.

 

[NotThatSoph]

@Sweet Square Extension of the meme/theory going around I mentioned earlier. He’s retired US military.

For some reason my mental image of all those people spending all day looking at rockets and tanks is that they're teenage boys, even though it probably doesn't make much sense.

 

[owlo]

For some reason my mental image of all those people spending all day looking at rockets and tanks is that they're teenage boys, even though it probably doesn't make much sense.

Many of them are in 30+ year old bodies! Imagine coming back from war, emotionally battered, not ready for a relationship, wounded in many cases, not ready to socialise or in some cases work. You sit on the internet and game along with your old colleagues, talking about the good/bad old days and pontificating about the world. Some become OSINT analysts because it’s the only skill they have. They often have a bunch of technical expertise and little to no emotional maturity or nuance. (And yes I may or may not include myself in this description to some extent)

 

[4bars]

The Palestinian and general Arab view and experience of Zionism and Israel has been that it’s a racist settler-colonial project driven by conspiratorial imperialism. And hence, by the international standards of our time, fundamentally unjust, unnatural, illegitimate, and destined to collapse. Resistance to it was therefore always inevitable, whatever the Palestinians’ ethnicity or religion, etc. And there are plenty of contemporary examples they can and do draw upon to give hope and strength to the belief that the righteous cause can and will triumph over apparently overwhelming power - Algeria, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc. We saw Khalid Mash’al reference these just a couple of weeks ago.

But of course Palestinians draw on their own Islamo-Arabic heritage to make sense of their plight and give strength to their cause. And that is the same heritage that has, to a large degree, shaped both Arab and Palestinian nationalism, which are historically entwined. If one goes looking in that heritage for negative traditions concerning Jews, examples of Arab-Muslim heroism in the face of Western intrusion, and ultimately a vision of the region where the Arab Muslims are masters of their own destiny, then there is plenty to be found, and it’s fair to state that these have given shape and form to, and helped sustain, a Palestinian resistance that would always have existed anyway.

Dont you think that the comparisons are a bit different though, algeria, vietnam, afghanistan, etc were territories occupied by powers that had their land elsewhere and they had a place to return while for local population was surviving the invader. While israelians, besides de settlers that comes from other countries, they dont have another israel to go. Is a more an existencial occupation. If they lose, they will be again a pariah ethno-religious group scattered around the world

 

[owlo]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Sums up my thoughts on it quite succinctly.

 

[berbatrick]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[berbatrick]

I don't understand the quote. Does it means that the State Department is unhappy about known employee's opinions or that they want these opinions to be aired out?

Read somewhere that State has been totally sidelined by the White House, treated like an outside interest/protest group, so probably this is their way of making themselves* heard.

*or at least, some part of the dept

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Not sure if I’ve mentioned it before, but I do wonder if this is his last dance, being brutally aggressive because he knows he’s gone anyway.

I also wondered the same question about Hamas as they were on the verge of a defeat if the numbers in the polls ahead of the now-cancelled October elections in Gaza were true. This conflict is just way too convenient for them and for Bibi when their political dominance was/is clearly faltering.

If anything, he's being aggressive because it's the only way he'll be able to claim victory that might satisfy his voters.

There might not many faithful left at the end of the road anyway. Worse than that are the damage and the mess he will leave behind to whoever his successor will be.

 

[Frosty]

Of a negot peace/surrender to stop the blitz, or of a humanitarian ceasefire to stop killing German civilians?

A negotiated peace was being discussed at the highest levels during the Battle of France. Although the RAF were banned from dropping anything other than propaganda leaflets for a few months in 1939 (so a preemptive ceasefire of sorts?), and the British and French adopted a very passive footing during the Phoney War, hoping everything would blow over.

 

[Giggsyking]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

They have nothing left, for a some sort of a normal life in the future, bombed hospital, schools and universities.

 

[WeePat]

Just saw that Rachel Riley tweet about Jews refusing to play football with Arabs isn't racist.

Are there still some on here that will defend her?

She’s saying the opposite to be fair. It was an attempt at satire that she clarifies in subsequent tweets.

 

[Giggsyking]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[2cents]

Dont you think that the comparisons are a bit different though, algeria, vietnam, afghanistan, etc were territories occupied by powers that had their land elsewhere and they had a place to return while for local population was surviving the invader. While israelians, besides de settlers that comes from other countries, they dont have another israel to go. Is a more an existencial occupation. If they lose, they will be again a pariah ethno-religious group scattered around the world

Sure, but I’m just describing a commonly-encountered Palestinian perspective, which often includes the assumption that with the inevitable Palestinian victory the Jews will “return” to Poland, Morocco, or wherever. Like you I also think this is a misreading of the Israeli Jews, but it’s understandable given what the Palestinians have experienced.

 

[Super Hans]

Just read that Labour MP Andy McDonald got suspended by the party for saying, "We won’t rest until we have justice, until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea can live in peaceful liberty.”

Mental.

 

[calodo2003]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[calodo2003]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[adexkola]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

feck 'em then.

If they want to believe Tlaib is anti-Semitic (along with many Jews who use the term) that's their business.

It's like how they were so hung up about the correct application of the word Apartheid towards Israel (that they even called the use anti-Semitic until Amnesty International and other orgs put their stamp of approval)

 

[Denis79]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Atleast Erdogan has balls to say it like it is.

 

[NoPace]

When the Bosnia war was happening I knew some people who worked for charities who went over there. They secretly filmed some what was going on and distributed copies upon return. I have arched the film and honestly wishes I hadn't. It was only about 10 minutes long and I couldn't go past 2/3 minutes at the time. Literally had nightmares for weeks and anxiety.

Anyway the reason I put that is because I currently know people in Gaza and some who are friends of a friend. Plus some who are very active in the charity field.

Some of them that I have spoken to are unanimous in saying that there has been a lot "made up" about the 7/10 attack. Let me just say that the attack did happen of that there is no dispute. However the 40 decapitated babies wasn't the only made up bit. Also it wasn't just Hamas involved. Feeling is Hamas are doing an ISIS, as in claiming every attack anywhere in the world and the narrative being "allowed" as it suited the Brits/Americans and etc.

The claim also is that some Israelis killed at the music festival etc was by "friendly fire" and panic by IDF.

*** Not claiming true. Just passing on information f I'm people inside.

***** That said more likely to believe this than IDF and Hamas propaganda

I don't think this is that sensationalist.

Of course more than Hamas were involved, the Wiki page for the October 7th attack lists 4 parties alone on the Hamas side.

Of course some of (a couple, tens, I don't know) of the dead Israelis were killed by IDF/Israeli forces in shootouts with the Palestinians who were trying to take them hostage. All those Israelis would be alive if there was no October 7th attack.

I'm not sure there's much to takeaway from this politically.

 

[owlo]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Hey guys, lets tear down some centuries old statues and monuments of confederates and slavers because they offend our sensitivities and are dog whistles to white supremacists/racists.

Lets also use the term that Iran, Hamas, and every other terrorist uses for destruction of Israel. That's ok, it's just a slogan. We see it differently.

(Am I becoming right wing? )

edit: hah, then I read this.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Ted Lasso]

It blows my mind that someone who is Jewish/Israeli is even talking about ethnic cleansing given that if Hitler had had his way wouldn’t even be around today to push that view.

Utterly fecking amazes me.

I learned about the Nakba for the first time this last month after seeing outrage at Netflix for allowing some Palestinian documentary to be aired. Is there a level beyond utterly fecking mind blown because that's what state of disbelief I'm in that this extremist Zionist violent and murderous expulsion happened in 1948, a heartbeat after WWII. Maybe there was never really any hope for better humanity

 

[adexkola]

Hey guys, lets tear down some centuries old statues and monuments of confederates and slavers because they offend our sensitivities and are dog whistles to white supremacists/racists.

Lets also use the term that Iran, Hamas, and every other terrorist uses for destruction of Israel. That's ok, it's just a slogan. We see it differently.

(Am I becoming right wing? )

edit: hah, then I read this.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

No, let's tear down statues and monuments of Confederates and slavers in public spaces because they shouldn't be publicly honored when their goal was to enslave the ancestors of many citizens who drive/walk by those statues every day.

How is that a parallel to saying that using a slogan which is not only used by Hamas, but by Jews, is anti Semitic? Especially when, most users are adamant in the conditions of their usage of the phrase?

You guys aren't good at analogies. If you were, you wouldn't spend years pushing back against the apartheid one.

edit: that's a stretch, he may need some ice for that. As a resident on this side, when someone says "The South will Rise Again", that's not enough to determine the intent of the statement. If you're wearing a white hood or are draped in a Confederate flag, that may be the cherry on the shit racist sundae. If you're OutKast, you're pushing back against East Coast/West Coast snobbery of southern Hip-Hop. Maybe find another tweet that sticks the analogy landing

 

[owlo]

No, let's tear down statues and monuments of Confederates and slavers in public spaces because they shouldn't be publicly honored when their goal was to enslave the ancestors of many citizens who drive/walk by those statues every day.

How is that a parallel to saying that using a slogan which is not only used by Hamas, but by Jews, is anti Semitic? Especially when, most users are adamant in the conditions of their usage of the phrase?

You guys aren't good at analogies. If you were, you wouldn't spend years pushing back against the apartheid one.

edit: that's a stretch, he may need some ice for that. As a resident on this side, when someone says "The South will Rise Again", that's not enough to determine the intent of the statement. If you're wearing a white hood or are draped in a Confederate flag, that may be the cherry on the shit racist sundae. If you're OutKast, you're pushing back against East Coast/West Coast snobbery of southern Hip-Hop. Maybe find another tweet that sticks the analogy landing

Co-opting a hate term, used round the world by terrorists to mean something, to mean something else as a ”peaceful slogan” is clearly just dog whistling to those haters.You use it because you know it’s upsetting, because of the connotations, and you don’t care. You could viably pick any other term to mean peace and flowers, but you don’t, you pick one which dovetails perfectly with extremism.

Its no different to me using something like “white lives matter” or “blue lives matter” - i could pick any other term to express myself but choose to align myself with idiots. Is “blood and soil” ok with you? Or “"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children"?

As I said, my opinion on it aligns with this dude.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Whether people personally mean it in a kind way or not is their business, but not acknowledging exactly what you’re doing by using the term is just dishonest.

 

[Kaos]

Co-opting a hate term, used round the world by terrorists to mean something, to mean something else as a ”peaceful slogan” is clearly just dog whistling to those haters.You use it because you know it’s upsetting, because of the connotations, and you don’t care. You could viably pick any other term to mean peace and flowers, but you don’t, you pick one which dovetails perfectly with extremism.

Its no different to me using something like “white lives matter” or “blue lives matter” - i could pick any other term to express myself but choose to align myself with idiots. Is “blood and soil” ok with you? Or “"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children"?

As I said, my opinion on it aligns with this dude.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Whether people personally mean it in a kind way or not is their business, but not acknowledging exactly what you’re doing by using the term is just dishonest.

The issue is the slogan predated the likes of those factions - both militant Arab and the Israeli far-right, who themselves have just adopted it for more nefarious intent since then. Is it a clumsy slogan to adopt? Probably. But to say its a term sourcing from extremists isn't entirely true.

 

[owlo]

The issue is the slogan predated the likes of those factions - both militant Arab and the Israeli far-right, who themselves have just adopted it for more nefarious intent since then. Is it a clumsy slogan to adopt? Probably. But to say its a term sourcing from extremists isn't entirely true.

I only know what I’ve read on Wikipedia about the slogan, but it does seem murky at best, and there’s no real arguing that it does dog whistle the extremists. There’s no real need for it is there; it doesnt even really make sense in the way that Tlaib claims.

Sure I agree, it’s probably just an accepted protest chant now as much as glory glory man utd is at games or something, and the majority of lads chanting it have no nefarious intent. But every time it is used, it’s whistling those extremists who do. It’s lI’ve the “white lives matter” chants I suppose, the majority are just protesting using the term randomly, but its geeing up the hardcore racists.

I also (rightly or wrongly) hold Tlaib to a higher standard, as she’s supposed to be a US legislator.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Yes, let's debate the intricacies of phraseology while refugee camps are being purposely bombed multiple times.

 

[Amir]

I think even Bibi might know he’s done this time, though the stockholm syndrome is understandable. He’s like a turd that just won’t flush.

He's paranoid and pessimistic in the best of times, so I'm sure he's extremely worried (about himself, that is), but all signs are showing that he's absolutely going to fight and try to claim it's not his fault.

 

[Amir]

There might not many faithful left at the end of the road anyway. Worse than that are the damage and the mess he will leave behind to whoever his successor will be.

He's got a big cult that will support him no matter what and gladly accept his reasoning and blame others.

Latest polls show he has lost nearly half of his party's voters. But still, he has the support of over half, and that's at his lowest ebb which is the weeks following October 7. He's more likely to regain at least some of them than lose any of the voters who are still willing to stick with him.

 

[Sweet Square]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Giggsyking]

I only know what I’ve read on Wikipedia about the slogan, but it does seem murky at best, and there’s no real arguing that it does dog whistle the extremists. There’s no real need for it is there; it doesnt even really make sense in the way that Tlaib claims.

Sure I agree, it’s probably just an accepted protest chant now as much as glory glory man utd is at games or something, and the majority of lads chanting it have no nefarious intent. But every time it is used, it’s whistling those extremists who do. It’s lI’ve the “white lives matter” chants I suppose, the majority are just protesting using the term randomly, but its geeing up the hardcore racists.

I also (rightly or wrongly) hold Tlaib to a higher standard, as she’s supposed to be a US legislator.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Brown Toothpick]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Adisa]

IDF telling people to flee to areas that are being bombed.

 

[Adisa]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

The irony.

 

[Giggsyking]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

He is not stupid saying that, he knows they will never do it, but want the world to know they have one and in addition to that he just want to plant more terror in the hearts of the Palestinian people.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Minister of Heritage wants to create some more Israeli heritage.

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Feck me, what an idiot. I never knew he was a minister nor did I know what his responsibility was.
seems to have the understanding of a 5-year-old.

He's been banned from parliament meetings (the regular ones, that happen every week in every country),
that haven't actually taken place since the war began. Another lip service from Bibi, the grand master of it.

You don't need the horror images from Gaza,
The Israeli MPs will do the job for ya...