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Israeli leaders have been commenting about the death in California of Paul Kessler, which Ventura County sheriff’s department says it hasn’t ruled out being a hate crime. Kessler died Monday at a hospital, a day after he reportedly was battered after a confrontation between pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian demonstrations in Thousand Oaks, northwest of Los Angeles.
Describing it as a murder, war cabinet minister Benny Gantz has posted to social murder to say:
"The murder of Jewish-American Paul Kessler should serve as a stark warning sign to the whole world. Israel stands today at the forefront of the global fight against the murderous antisemitic ideology behind the Hamas terror attacks of 7 October. I call on world leaders and the international community to be unequivocal and proactive in their condemnation of terror and antisemitism."
Israeli opposition leader Yair Lapid has also commented, saying:
"Paul Kessler was killed in Los Angeles because he was a Jew. It is not because of Gaza, it is because of antisemitism. This is what happens when protesters glorify Hamas and call to “globalise the intifada.” They don’t love Palestinians, they hate Jews."
Describing it as a murder, war cabinet minister Benny Gantz has posted to social murder to say:
"The murder of Jewish-American Paul Kessler should serve as a stark warning sign to the whole world. Israel stands today at the forefront of the global fight against the murderous antisemitic ideology behind the Hamas terror attacks of 7 October. I call on world leaders and the international community to be unequivocal and proactive in their condemnation of terror and antisemitism."
Israeli opposition leader Yair Lapid has also commented, saying:
"Paul Kessler was killed in Los Angeles because he was a Jew. It is not because of Gaza, it is because of antisemitism. This is what happens when protesters glorify Hamas and call to “globalise the intifada.” They don’t love Palestinians, they hate Jews."
No matter how hard you try, you're not going to convice the majority of people that you can 'two-sides' this away.
Hamas instigated this. Hamas is responsible for the escalation. Without October 7th, the vast, vast majority of those 10k Gazans are still alive today. In deplorable conditions, but alive. Schools are not rubble, hospitals are still operating.
Israel's reaction is lamentably, predictably and sadly disproportionate. But it is a REaction.
I just do not understand how you cannot see that Hamas' actions are the reason things have gone from bad to an unmitigated, unrecoverable disaster for the people it purports to represent. Hamas decided to destroy the future of its own people.
The magnitude and nature of what Isreal is doing is wrong. But even the most dove-ish reaction to October 7th was going to result in thousands of Gazans being killed, because that's how Hamas is designed.
The only way October 7th doesn't lead to mass casulaties in Gaza is if Israel chose to simply let the actions of Hamas go unpunished because doing so would be impossible without civilian deaths. Explain to me why you believe that was ever an option after the sheer horror of what was done by Hamas.
The majority of people on this thread are not on the side of Israel.
The abusive husband beating his wife to death is a lamentable, predictable, and disproportionate reaction to her punching him in the face. She instigated this. She is responsible for the escalation.
One thing I don't really get about the ceasefire calls is that it's a two-way compromise. Hamas are still bombing huge swathes of Israel pretty much on a daily basis. Do people think Hamas would stop firing if Israel did? Because if not, then the ceasefire really is just a cease and desist to Israel.
Cheers. I'm OK. Dealing with A big health crisis in my family so I have far less time for posting.
Do you think the people of Palestine should let the actions of Israel go unpunished? The reality is the "Horror" of Oct 7th is seen as a horror because it was condensed in one day, when the Palestinian people had experienced that horror over years before Oct 7th. The other reality is to a lot of the outside world yes Oct 7th was terrible but what Israel has done since then is much worse. Israel has killed thousands of children.....thousands.
I have heard very few voices against the war and the way it is conducted.
People ARE against Netanyahu himself.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67321241
Let's be perfectly honest, the Israeli response has been huge and shocking to see. Settlers have paved the way for extremism and need to be held properly to account/land returned. No doubt.
But - whilst Hamas are there and their leaders are openly spewing this shite - there will be more destruction, violence and death than we're even seeing right now.
Let's be perfectly honest, the Israeli response has been huge and shocking to see. Settlers have paved the way for extremism and need to be held properly to account/land returned. No doubt.
But - whilst Hamas are there and their leaders are openly spewing this shite - there will be more destruction, violence and death than we're even seeing right now.
That poll is months old and has nothing to do with the war at all.
I havn't seen a poll in Israel about the war or a breakdown. I can only compare the reaction to those of past operations in Gaza. This is different. A lot different. Only the left of the left seem to be against it or the way it is conducted.
The bolded is exactly what applies to both sides isn't it? Monstrous acts are created in monstrous situations, we can understand the hatred whilst still finding the predictable outcomes unforgivable. Most in the harshest of circumstances won't commit evil acts but there's always a substantial amount that will such is human nature.
The Israeli response is such a hatred its not strategic or logical its to lash out in hate at the 'other'. They could have ramped up their war against Hamas without this level of atrocity, anyone claiming otherwise is falling for bias or a coping mechanism.
Someone said 10k would be the point international pressure ramped up and it seems that may have been the case. How pathetic we are as an international community that we seemingly have a number of acceptable children that can be killed.
I'm sorry you've had to experience those things, but you have been brainwashed by your government and those around you. It is so plain to see that essentially none of what you've said is really true, from an unbiased, outside perspective.
I have no doubt your media and politicians do a great job of making the average civilian believe it, though.
I believe they'd stop if Israel stopped, I mean hamas hasn't been firing rockets for a couple of years, infact they once backed a short lived non-violent daily protest march to the border fences but we know how that ended.
A number of people here have tried to take this ethical position where Israel's actions are wrong yet inevitable.
This is a weak position because, to most people, being right or wrong requires choice. If Israel effectively had no choice, then judging their actions as right or wrong is not worth much.
Now, if you want to argue that Israel's actions were inevitable because they can be counted on to make the morally wrong choice every time... now we're cookin'.
This is a weak position because, to most people, being right or wrong requires choice. If Israel effectively had no choice, then judging their actions as right or wrong is not worth much.
Now, if you want to argue that Israel's actions were inevitable because they can be counted on to make the morally wrong choice every time... now we're cookin'.
Proportionate response...
Is this tongue in cheek? Hard to tell in this thread sometime
It is a very stupid strategy (if you can call it that) from Hamas.
This is the issue with this conflict in a nutshell. it’s probably one of the only true cases of a “both sides” where it isn’t just lip service. I don’t support Hamas and absolutely condemn the atrocities committed on the 7th october, but every step of this is part of a larger causal chain. As the head of the UN put it, this didn’t happen in a vacuum. The 7th october was a REaction to continued brutal occupation as well… and all of it just adds to the cycle of violence as for every thousand children that are killed and maimed in Gaza as a disproportionate response, fuel is added to the fire for those wanting to respond with violence in the future.
Stepping back from the obvious humanitarian issue that people are dying in this conflict across the board and have been for decades. I find the proportionality used from Israel deeply troubling and continues to push me further towards the Palestinian cause, not hamas, but the Palestinians. We are watching a genocide in real time being live-streamed on YouTube.
In a vacuum, what else can Israel do. if a militia in wales randomly decided to cross the border and attack Bristol it would necessarily constitute a response. But this isn’t happening in a vacuum.
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Re these murdering settlers in the West Bank, do they have a name?
A terrorist, its so obvious. Good on the IDF for bombing him/his home.
Absolute scum being allowed to do this day in day out, I hate this world.
Great analogy.
If you were this lady's friend, would you tell her the best course of action for her future wellbeing is:
a. Punch her abusive husband in the face, and f*ck the consequences.
b. Don't punch her abusive husband in the face, do literally anything else. Get a divorce. Move out. Seek police help.
Anyway, if you're able to mentally justify Hamas' actions on October 7th - both the brutality but far more importantly the idiocy of what would happen to Gazans, then that's great. Enjoy your righteous indignation, it is far simpler to see the world that easily.
And indicative of their genocidal intent.
Absolutely agree. The situation on October 6th was awful too. As you say, Israeli settlers have been committing atrocities for years. Whisper it, but so have Hamas. Pre-October 6th I believe the 'both-sidsing' is extremely fair, in fact Israel would bear the majority of the outrage. World powers should have been pressuring Israel to better adhere to the agreements made in 2005, freeing up access to goods and services, and pushing to allow freedom of movement. No people shouldn't have that. Similarly through the Egyptian border. I think this thread would be completely different and I wish it were as active then.
But Hamas decided to escalate. And to escalate against an opponent who has a very clear history, strategy and promise of over-retribution. I personally disagree with this strategy and think its abhorrent, but it was and is a known strategy. To believe that Hamas could do what it did on October 7th and not see, for example, a full on ground offensive to try and destroy the tunnel system it had built (under key infrastructure like schools, hospitals etc) is simply unthinkable. Hamas pushed the big red button on its own people.
Hard to describe them as anything other than terrorists really. Which then begs the question what is the inevitable and proportinate response? Are they valid targets to be murdered including their families? I'd say not but by the logic used from others in this thread it would seem so.
Yeah you're right actually given the position most western leaders are taking.
It's just when you think about a statement like that in isolation it's a bit absurd.
Completely agree
Truly sorry to hear that and hope they'll get better. Post whenever you can, it's a welcome sight for sore eyes.
Hilltop Youth would be one main recognized movement.
https://www.hartman.org.il/the-hilltop-youth-and-jewish-terrorism-transcript/
I don't understand how, among the 1500+ murdered, the chopping off the head of a Thailandese worker, the execution of an Israeli Arab bus driver, and the raping of a child is a justifiable reaction to 'decades of occupation'. It's almost like Gazans hold a monopoly on pain and suffering, their plight so universally unique that no matter what attrocities they commit, people across the world will be understanding. Look at that Hamas freedom fighter. Look how emotionally hurt he is. He's about to kill and destroy and rape and set on fire, but please, look behind his acts of barbarism - deep down there's a wounded heart and a grieving soul.
In this scenario the wife is under house arrest with no access to justice, getting beaten every day.
How would you help this woman?
It's a good job no one has justified it then.
Strawman. Every single person in this thread calls hamas a terrorist group. This hamas freedom fighter bs only happens in your head. Also, go and punish hamas, not murder thousands of children, this should be pretty basic stuff.
Maybe you could just give back the lands you're occupying against international law and stop waging war on Palestinians. Let them have a viable state and work with that state to prevent terrorism as neighbours.
Here’s why I’ve not been posting in here despite reading takes ranging from the horrifically uninformed to the blatantly racist:
Today in Israel, I’m not allowed to voice an opinion. Palestinian citizens of Israel have been forcefully silenced and threatened for any social media activity that isn’t in line with Israeli Hasbara. There’s a serious witch hunt going on. Full blown McCarthyism.
Hundreds have been detained, fired from their jobs. Hundreds have been threatened by Jewish citizens with physical harm. Authorities and law makers threatening to revoke our citizenship.
I’ll remain quiet for now in regards to the main issues rather than taking the risk of being ratted out like four of my friends who have been arrested for:
1) Following an Instagram page called eye on Palestine.
2) Sharing a post by an Israeli Jew on Facebook that accused Israel of genocide (the Israeli Jew has not been arrested, the Arab who shared the Jew’s post did get arrested).
3) Posting an instagram story sympathizing with the children of Gaza and calling for a ceasefire.
4) Being ratted out by her Jewish “friend” who shared screenshots of a private conversation they had on facebook, where she said there’s no evidence of beheadings. She’s been detained for three days, bullied by tens of thousands online, with the screenshots broadcasted on television.
An Arab medical doctor got fired because of an old profile pictures on Facebook that contain Quran texts. A political analyst got arrested for posting an objective analysis of the breach on the 7th.
Meanwhile Jewish citizen have been calling for a final solution, mocking Palestinian suffering, and dehumanizing them. Telegram groups with thousands of members rife with organizing pogroms and lynches without any consequences. Hell, they’re even posting videos of urinating on Palestinian dead bodies, stabbing them and poking their eyes out. Zero consequences.
My supposedly leftist Jewish colleagues have turned into vengeful right wing snitches.
I have been threatened by my Jewish neighbor (that I’ve had good neighborly relationship with) telling me he’s sick of hearing me speaking Arabic in the building, when I stood my ground, with his veins popping out of his neck he threatened “I’ll do another Nakba to you”.
Most importantly, we've been warned not to protest by the police commissioner as the police won’t hesitate to use live ammunition. So we just have to live with the grief, the shame, the anger and the sense of defeatedness while all of this is happening.
Today in Israel, I’m not allowed to voice an opinion. Palestinian citizens of Israel have been forcefully silenced and threatened for any social media activity that isn’t in line with Israeli Hasbara. There’s a serious witch hunt going on. Full blown McCarthyism.
Hundreds have been detained, fired from their jobs. Hundreds have been threatened by Jewish citizens with physical harm. Authorities and law makers threatening to revoke our citizenship.
I’ll remain quiet for now in regards to the main issues rather than taking the risk of being ratted out like four of my friends who have been arrested for:
1) Following an Instagram page called eye on Palestine.
2) Sharing a post by an Israeli Jew on Facebook that accused Israel of genocide (the Israeli Jew has not been arrested, the Arab who shared the Jew’s post did get arrested).
3) Posting an instagram story sympathizing with the children of Gaza and calling for a ceasefire.
4) Being ratted out by her Jewish “friend” who shared screenshots of a private conversation they had on facebook, where she said there’s no evidence of beheadings. She’s been detained for three days, bullied by tens of thousands online, with the screenshots broadcasted on television.
An Arab medical doctor got fired because of an old profile pictures on Facebook that contain Quran texts. A political analyst got arrested for posting an objective analysis of the breach on the 7th.
Meanwhile Jewish citizen have been calling for a final solution, mocking Palestinian suffering, and dehumanizing them. Telegram groups with thousands of members rife with organizing pogroms and lynches without any consequences. Hell, they’re even posting videos of urinating on Palestinian dead bodies, stabbing them and poking their eyes out. Zero consequences.
My supposedly leftist Jewish colleagues have turned into vengeful right wing snitches.
I have been threatened by my Jewish neighbor (that I’ve had good neighborly relationship with) telling me he’s sick of hearing me speaking Arabic in the building, when I stood my ground, with his veins popping out of his neck he threatened “I’ll do another Nakba to you”.
Most importantly, we've been warned not to protest by the police commissioner as the police won’t hesitate to use live ammunition. So we just have to live with the grief, the shame, the anger and the sense of defeatedness while all of this is happening.
Where is the proof any of this happened or was done by Hamas? Has it been proven in any court of law? You can't take their enemies word for it, especially whilst they're at war, and especially as their enemy has a track record of lying and propaganda.
None of this can be true. How could this possibly be true of people with people who have men like this in government... https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-r...option-pm-suspends-him-from-cabinet-meetings/
It's great fun just making up stuff to then argue against your made up stuff, isn't it?
If it looks like a duck, its apartheid. Simple as that.
This is supposedly the democracy the West is supposed to champion?