'Both sides'
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'Both sides'
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Sorry but none of this answer relates to how or why Israel can’t be committing state terror because Bibi said they aren’t.
This is how oppressor major powers work. No modern nation has ever been free of natives, who weren’t then subjugated and oppressed. As you say, theyve been abandoned by the world, have no army navy or airforce, and they decide to implement their own version of 9/11? Fully knowing the reaction that would come. Not only that, but they video it to the world and their supporters throw parties around the world. As you also say, if you were there you’d rather fight and die the enemy than leave, which would be your right. Israel also have the right to fight the enemy. And fight they will.
Israels survival has been predicated on this. There’s a reason opportunistic allies like hezbollah aren’t involved. And there’s a reason Hamas have never attempted anything like this before. I suggested a book I liked before which I suggest you read, the iron cage by rashid khalidi. There have been opportunities. they have been missed. It’s now too far gone.
Pretty much this. Yep
I’d been wondering about the same thing. Too much of a coincidence for this relatively huge incursion from Hamas. Stinks of broader geopolitical machination's
what it shows is seemingly just a burned-down house in one of the Kibbutz's next to Gaza... nothing to get excited about, it happens during events like this one.
but the story behind it is that civilians were hiding there- in their homes- in the safe room that most houses in Israel (those that were built in the last decades) have;
it's a room where the entire family gets into and then they dismantle the door handle from the inside...
and then whoever breaks into the house can't get into the room as the door is made from some crazy steel. You need factory equipment to break it down.
so the Hamas men tried shooting it down, through a grenade next to it... to no avail.
so what they did with several houses was,
They set the house on fire, and then the people inside the safe room can't stand the heat / get choked.
so they came out of there and then got either murdered or kidnapped to Gaza.
All civilians, zero soldiers. utter scum.
The moral of it is that still photos will be hugely deceiving on both ends.
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...and next on the playlist we have Palestinians trying to decapitate a badly wounded Filipino guy with a spade while screaming "god is great". Humanely putting him out of his misery I suppose.
Israel's IDF is wrecking havoc. What did Hamas think was going to happen?
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Most obvious fact ever.
Fair play to them and to you as a person, and to your opinions.
I don't want to turn this thread into me versus you, I have a lot to say about the wrongdoings of my country.
that being said,
I can easily add a video of beheaded Israeli officers' bodies,
or of another soldier that was murdered in gazza from people hitting him with a shovel on the throat until he died.
I'll never do that.
'both sides', as you wrote it using quotes,
have their utter scum of the earth and also sensible people who wish they could all live a happy, carefree life somewhere else around the globe.
Daughter of the defence minister may be a hostage.
yeah, friendly fire it is. thanks!
More from WSJ's article on Iran's involvement.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25
My both sides comment was tongue in cheek in the sense that it really isn't 'both sides'. This isn't a fair fight in any sense of the word.
But I do accept that there exists depravity on both sides. However, one of those sides has been under decades of oppression, beaten, stripped of all rights, murdered, maimed and dehumanised for so long. The other hasn't.
I hope you and yours remain safe, and do reach out to someone if the mental strain gets too much.
Video from tonight’s football match in Tehran. The occupying regime had handed in Palestine flags to attendees as some sort of “celebration”.
Fans are all chanting: “Shove that Palestine flags up your ass!”
That’s after #IraniansStandWithIsrael was trending globally on X with over 85k posts!
never in history has been a country where it’s ruling regime was so at odds with itsacrual Populace
https://twitter.com/glnoronha/status/1711101913544966265?s=46
Fans are all chanting: “Shove that Palestine flags up your ass!”
That’s after #IraniansStandWithIsrael was trending globally on X with over 85k posts!
never in history has been a country where it’s ruling regime was so at odds with itsacrual Populace
https://twitter.com/glnoronha/status/1711101913544966265?s=46
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Has that been geolocated and verified? Extraordinary civil disobedience at this time. Thanks for the video.
Much appreciated, thanks.
It is astonishing how most of the Israelis see it as a fair or almost fight, it's their fault, we gave them the option to co-exist in 1948 and have their own country next to us (the British partition plan) and they waged war on us so they can get fecked....
[without the 'get fecked' bit, this is what they teach in most high schools. I had to write some of my final exam in History about the 1948 war, which they present to you so one-sidedly that you won't believe it, or maybe you would]
I am Iranian, so it’s 100% accurate from todays league match at Acadia Stadium in Tehran
It’s stunning footage. And happy that you’re in Canada, though one day I hope to be able to visit your country. Is there a reason why they have one stand full and the others mostly empty? Are they not scared of repercussions from the regime?
In one sense I don't blame the average Israeli, and in another sense I do.
I mean, imagine growing up in that environment where from every facet of society you're told there's this other 'barbaric' group that wants nothing more than you dead. From schooling, to work life, hasbara misnformation online, and then having politicians who all spout this rhetoric fairly openly in the Knesset.
It's a constant barrage. It's why I think the non-Israeli based Jewish voice is so powerful - there's a lot of grassroots movement in the US, UK and other European places that are leading the way in terms of holding this Zionist bile to account. I went on a few Palestinian demos a year or so ago (I've been going for years), but there was a quite sizeable orthodox Jewish group there who were for Palestine in the most recent one - and that group I think will only get larger. There's also a non-profit in New York called Jewish Voice for Peace who are doing some great work as well.
“Construction” is the official excuse , they know they are hated by the population. That’s why they had the Persepolis-Al Nassar game in ACL behind closed doors 2 weeks ago too.
me too my friend, I haven’t been back home in over a decade. I’m very positive their days are numbered and this long wait will come to an end soon. Hopefully with a return of constitutional monarchy we had before
the population inside Iran always chant in the favour of old Pahlavi monarchy … even last week when the Sepahan-Al-Ittihad match was postponed due to Soleimani statue at the stadium and Al-Ittihad’s refusal to play unless that monument is removed , the Iranians Fans were throwing rocks at Soleimani’s statue and chanting: “Reza Shah, god bless your soul” and “Iran without a Shah has no accountability.”
Astonishing that the Iranian urban population of all muslim people do not support Hamas' terror, because thanks to the Mullah regime they know better than anyone what kind of people islamist fanatics are. Unlike others living in western capitals enjoying western safety, liberalism and luxury and at the same time justify Islamic barbarism. But it's always like this, people who don't suffer under such regimes are the ones who support them the most. I really hope someday Iranians can free themselves from the Mullahs and go back to the country we saw in 70s photos.
Thought Ambassador Zomlot here was excellent.
Yes, let's go back to the other dictatorship.“Construction” is the official excuse , they know they are hated by the population. That’s why they had the Persepolis-Al Nassar game in ACL behind closed doors 2 weeks ago too.
me too my friend, I haven’t been back home in over a decade. I’m very positive their days are numbered and this long wait will come to an end soon. Hopefully with a return of constitutional monarchy we had before
the population inside Iran always chant in the favour of old Pahlavi monarchy … even last week when the Sepahan-Al-Ittihad match was postponed due to Soleimani statue at the stadium and Al-Ittihad’s refusal to play unless that monument is removed , the Iranians Fans were throwing rocks at Soleimani’s statue and chanting: “Reza Shah, god bless your soul” and “Iran without a Shah has no accountability.”
People will claim this wasn't unexpected or random and will be mostly correct but at the same time this will give all the justification Israel needs for years to come.
I don't understand what Hamas thinks it will gain from this.
I don't understand what Hamas thinks it will gain from this.
I hope your optimism comes to fruition. I’m a pessimist so don’t see how it happens, but if it does I’d be delighted to go over there and Do something positive for once whilst experiencing some of the most amazing culture and history on the planet.“Construction” is the official excuse , they know they are hated by the population. That’s why they had the Persepolis-Al Nassar game in ACL behind closed doors 2 weeks ago too.
me too my friend, I haven’t been back home in over a decade. I’m very positive their days are numbered and this long wait will come to an end soon. Hopefully with a return of constitutional monarchy we had before
the population inside Iran always chant in the favour of old Pahlavi monarchy … even last week when the Sepahan-Al-Ittihad match was postponed due to Soleimani statue at the stadium and Al-Ittihad’s refusal to play unless that monument is removed , the Iranians Fans were throwing rocks at Soleimani’s statue and chanting: “Reza Shah, god bless your soul” and “Iran without a Shah has no accountability.”
It’ll just be nostalgia from those too young and ill informed to know better. Nobody wants savak roaming; they just want to resolution to the revolution that they expected all along.
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If your entire knowledge of our history is based on some Wikipedia page or anti-Shah western propaganda (Khomeini was a darling of BBC and the French btw, the bastards) , best to just agree to disagree.
luckily, Iranian people have realized what a complete sham and orchestrated disaster 1979 was … and hopefully we will go back to the days where our passport was number 8 globally, we were the most economically thriving nation in M we were the most modern country in Middle East and the only ones with equal rights between men and women. If that’s dictatorship, I’ll take it everyday if the week twice on sundays ! We will determine our faith this time irrespective of what western “Intelligencia” think
anyways back to topic
exactly!!!
that’s why I’m considered a right-winger in the west because I fully have known and lived the horror of Islamic fanatics running a nation to the absolute ground … but soon these Western folks will find out for themselves too when the reality hits them, I just hope it isn’t too late by then to reverse things.
They put all their eggs in the kidnapping basket.
If Israel will play this the way it always has- by which rescuing kidnapped soldiers a/o civilians is more important than anything Hamas will ask for- then their gamble is a very wise one.
There will be a huge partition within the Israeli public.
Everyone with a personal relationship with those kidnapped will pressurize for an agreement, prisoners for prisoners.
Typically, Israel releases about a 1,000 Palestinian prisoners for 1 Israeli prisoner, if said prisoner is alive.
seeing as they have a couple of dozens of them alive, plus about 100 dead bodies according to reports/rumors,
such a deal, if it takes place, should reach historical scales, and will crown Hamas as winners for decades to come (even if Gaza is flattened. they don't care about their citizens as much)
Other people will say that the annihilation of Hamas is way more important than the lives of a couple of dozens.
my bet is that the lives of the kidnapped ones will be deem too important for Israel to do something in Gaza that was never seen before.
I guess I'm just sorta baffled by how audacious this was from Hamas and their Iranian backers. This is a new level of escalation. It's beyond anything we've seen from Hamas in recent years.
As others have said, they're probably betting on a cautious Israeli response because of the hostages. But what makes Hamas' leaders think Israel won't come after each one of them in the future?
As others have said, they're probably betting on a cautious Israeli response because of the hostages. But what makes Hamas' leaders think Israel won't come after each one of them in the future?
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My understanding was that the British did feck you over hard for many years, and it was only American intervention that rolled back some of the SAVAK terror. But you still didn’t get a fair price for your oil, Bahrain got annexed etc. far better life than now, but not ideal. I think you’d be far more independent this time around.If your entire knowledge of our history is based on some Wikipedia page or western propaganda (Khomeini was a darling of BBC and the French) , best to just not opine.
luckily, Iranian people have realized what a complete sham and orchestrated disaster 1979 was … and hopefully we will go back to the days where our passport was number 8 globally, we were the most economically thriving nation in M we were the most modern country in Middle East and the only ones with equal rights between men and women. If that’s dictatorship, I’ll take it everyday if the week twice on sundays ! We will determine our faith this time irrespective of what western “Intelligencia” think
anyways back to topic
I’ll try to be a bit optimistic here, goes against the grain. Urban warfare is the absolute worst, and Gaza is a worse nightmare than the IDF could ever contemplate. See Americans in fallujah and that was nothing close to this. Hamas will be hiding with the people, well trained and well armed by iran (they seem to have kornets too) and it’s not an environment that Israel can win in without completEly destroying international opinion.
better they keep the high ground and attempt to negotiate than walk into a death trap with a hostile population of 2 million. I don’t think they can do it, unless they use Russian tactics. Perhaps they’ll leverage international pressure, because I don’t think going in is viable.