No, that Iran played a part in the lead up to yesterday. It’s seemingly impossible that Hamas had the wherewithal & finances to orchestrate such an incursion.That it came from the WSJ. I'd like to see the intel behind it and citations/quotations.
We may have crossed the hostage swap Rubicon with yesterday’s events. Plus it doesn’t seem that there’s an Arafat-esque figure in Hamas right now.They've been doing this for 30 years is what people forget. Rabin/Arrafat prisoner swaps. It seems insane now, but throughout two full blown intifadas and conflicts in-between this has been the norm for a long time.
People underestimate a freedom fighting/terrorist organisition's capacity to launch attacks 20 years ~ into an unparalled siege situation. It's been coming. Iran funds Hezbollah and supports Hamas, it just isn't pulling the strings as some are depicting here. Same way Israel funds anti-Iranian forces everywhere but is hardly responsible for the latest surge in popular unrest in Iran.No, that Iran played a part in the lead up to yesterday. It’s seemingly impossible that Hamas had the wherewithal & finances to orchestrate such an incursion.
The bit he left out is it will be impossible to disarm Khhhhamas without eliminating them in the process.Tweet
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Or in any of the three major factions, which is 90% of the problem. Fatah can't govern because Israel, independent of these events, has made it impossible for an autonomous Palestinian WB by official decree. That feeds into Hamas and IJ support within the WB and complete ownership of Gaza (though that goes back a bit longer). As Israeli member said, this has been coming.Plus it doesn’t seem that there’s an Arafat-esque figure in Hamas right now.
I was posting it more for the explanation that they intend to invade GazaThe bit he left out is it will be impossible to disarm Khhhhamas without eliminating them in the process.
I barely believe it.Tweet
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There has never been an attack like this before anywhere. We are talking about a quantum leap forward in multi-domain warfare coupled with precision. This was months, if not years, in planning. The foresight for this demands someone leading the pack of neophytes; here we had the Revolutionary Guard leading the pack.People underestimate a freedom fighting/terrorist organisition's capacity to launch attacks 20 years ~ into an unparalled siege situation. It's been coming. Iran funds Hezbollah and supports Hamas, it just isn't pulling the strings as some are depicting here. Same way Israel funds anti-Iranian forces everywhere but is hardly responsible for the latest surge in popular unrest in Iran.
You have to figure that Bibi is on the IDF’s back demanding retaliatory action.I barely believe it.
It’s not 2006.they dont have accurate plans within12 months old or assets on the ground any more. The Ukraine and Syrian wars have happened. He’s a 2 star talking like they will have ground superiority and be able to be discrete about killing. They will be massacred. I’m not even convinced their 3 tank platoons are optimal any more. And hamas clearly have both vampir and kornet.
It feels like arrogance, and that they will pay a huge price for being baited into there.
I'm not attempting to draw a parallell between the IDF and Russia, it wouldn't really matter. What constitutes terror is very influenced by ideological motivations, often more than the actual actions, is more what I'm getting at. It's often said terrorism by definition has to be by non-state actors, but this qualifier is often dropped if we really want to call something terrorism and that point stands in the way. It's pretty useless, anyway. Several countries recognize Palestine as a state, and Hamas is the government. This was clearly a military operation, so can e.g. Brazil say that the attack on the civilians attending the music festival was terrorism? Maybe, maybe not, but calling it terrorism or something else doesn't impact what actually happened. Likewise, Israel's response is going to be what it's going to be, some will call it state terrorism and others won't. It won't change the tactics used or who dies or lives.Any rational discourse I’ve seen has called it war not terror. There are some characteristics (Wagner, importing Syrian fighters, use of fires, kidnapping Ukrainian kids into russia) which I guess might qualify for such a statement, but ultimately war is terrifying. Looking at the eu statement, it was particularly targeting Russian backed militias. Kadyrov, Wagner, etc as sponsored paramilitary groups by the Russian state to commit terror in Ukraine. They also mentioned specifically targeting civilians for death without warning.
There’s no parallels to the IDF actions here I believe?
My read was arrogance, that they believe they can roll in like in 2006 and minimise civilian casualties. Truly hope this is not the case. He didn’t mention artillery or mlrs once, or cluster munitions.The bit he left out is it will be impossible to disarm Khhhhamas without eliminating them in the process.
There’s no figurehead who would be able to ensure that hostage swaps could take place within a reasonable time frame. This is a new prism through which we are looking.Or in any of the three major factions, which is 90% of the problem. Fatah can't govern because Israel, independent of these events, has made it impossible for an autonomous Palestinian WB by official decree. That feeds into Hamas and IJ support within the WB and complete ownership of Gaza (though that goes back a bit longer). As Israeli member said, this has been coming.
People seem to forget the Palestinian response to the Ukrainian war (Ukraine's response to the invasion). They literally said, and you can go back and find the quotes, "what is the point of us going through peace talks that go nowhere when Ukraine can receive the support it receives and might actually get somewhere". They took it as a model.This was months, if not years, in planning.
Wait a second. I thought the IDF was woke.You have to figure that Bibi is on the IDF’s back demanding retaliatory action.
I don't think it was arrogance. They know the terrain and are more than capable of going in. His video, and many like it on CNN and other outlets, is to galvanize pro-Israel sentiment prior to the invasion to preemptively mitigate negative press once the inevitable controversies of Israeli strikes killing civilians.My read was arrogance, that they believe they can roll in like in 2006 and minimise civilian casualties. Truly hope this is not the case. He didn’t mention artillery or mlrs once, or cluster munitions.
Was your read simply that he’s a liar and failed to mention this because he didn’t want to?
History doesn’t happen until it happens.People seem to forget the Palestinian response to the Ukrainian war (Ukraine's response to the invasion). They literally said, and you can go back and find the quotes, "what is the point of us going through peace talks that go nowhere when Ukraine can receive the support it receives and might actually get somewhere". They took it as a model.
The problem with the Iranian thing, not in money or guns, which goes back as many years as you want, but in "do this here now" style, is that it just goes counter to their initiative with the Arabic states over the past two to three years which has literally resolved around precisely this issue (and other ter. disputes with armed factions).
I'm not attempting to draw a parallell between the IDF and Russia, it wouldn't really matter. What constitutes terror is very influenced by ideological motivations, often more than the actual actions, is more what I'm getting at. It's often said terrorism by definition has to be by non-state actors, but this qualifier is often dropped if we really want to call something terrorism and that point stands in the way. It's pretty useless, anyway. Several countries recognize Palestine as a state, and Hamas is the government. This was clearly a military operation, so can e.g. Brazil say that the attack on the civilians attending the music festival was terrorism? Maybe, maybe not, but calling it terrorism or something else doesn't impact what actually happened. Likewise, Israel's response is going to be what it's going to be, some will call it state terrorism and others won't. It won't change the tactics used or who dies or lives.
The eu statement is focusing on the Wagner group and other proxies because they can be added to the terror list, while Russia can't under the current rules. The statement is pretty clear on the fact that it includes the Russian army among the terrorists.
I think if this goes tits up, bibi is done. He has a chance to act like a statesman for once and not kill thousands, yet he’s decided to act even more harebrained than hamas.You have to figure that Bibi is on the IDF’s back demanding retaliatory action.
that is what put this thing on the backburner for 20 years, no question. US wasn't in the mood to tell Israel how to do anything during that period. The world basically forgot about it.9.11
Hope you’re right.I don't think it was arrogance. They know the terrain and are more than capable of going in. His video, and many like it on CNN and other outlets, is to galvanize pro-Israel sentiment prior to the invasion to preemptively mitigate negative press once the inevitable controversies of Israeli strikes killing civilians.
They're limited. Without some arrangement, two states, there is nothing to be done. Look the economic/political trajectory of that region and you see how isolated Israel is for the first time, really, in decades. For normalization, they need a two-state solution. Otherwise this just comes back again and again. I.e., the AL can choose between BRICS, and US/EU. This hasn't been true since the USSR days and it's even more tangible now than then owing to economic rise throughout that period across the region.This is most definitely Israel’s 9.11, we will see how they respond in the long run.
You might be right about this and it could very well apply to an extended (in time) large scale Air operation without a terrestrial invasion…I don't think it was arrogance. They know the terrain and are more than capable of going in. His video, and many like it on CNN and other outlets, is to galvanize pro-Israel sentiment prior to the invasion to preemptively mitigate negative press once the inevitable controversies of Israeli strikes killing civilians.
To route Hamas, you'd have to destroy Gaza entirely. People, not most here, but on twitter or whatever, don't seem to understand that. They left it after the second intifada because it was a disaster (with Hezbollah situation also forcing it to a close). And no real solution to it since.Don’t see any possible way an air campaign only would cause any real degradation to Hamas’ ability to wage terror. The Balkans were a perfect location to just have an air campaign & to achieve demonstrable results. Gaza is the worst possible scenario for such.
It demands boots on the ground, but it would be a meat grinder.
Don’t envy Israel one bit.
It’s not Hamas’ ability… it’s about revenge and it’s long term thinking.Don’t see any possible way an air campaign only would cause any real degradation to Hamas’ ability to wage terror. The Balkans were a perfect location to just have an air campaign & to achieve demonstrable results. Gaza is the worst possible scenario for such.
It demands boots on the ground, but it would be a meat grinder.
Don’t envy Israel one bit.
History tells us other. It has been far worse in the past. Gaza is in a kind of perpetual civil war (not just with the Israelis). But if/when Israel goes in, Hamas/Fatah/IJ, etc., won't turn on each other (they'll wait until it's over as they've always done).could end up frustrating the population enough for it to cause some civil war in Gaza. Terror sects and other militias in Gaza would take care of each other…
With violence. Which will lead to even more violence.History doesn’t happen until it happens.
There was a failure by the West after ‘91 to continue to look at geopolitics & military affairs through a Cold War lens, Condolezza Rice springs quickly to mind. 9.11 happened & we had to adapt quickly & start catching up to reality.
We could be at an inflection point where what we know of anticipated moves & ideology of Hamas et al is yesterday’s news & catching up is needed. I feel we pretty much are. This is most definitely Israel’s 9.11, we will see how they respond in the long run.
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That's what you get when you put people's back to the wall. There's only so much despair one can put up with. Netanyahu has been Israel's blight for decades and became absolutely unhinged these last four-five years, enabling the extremists on both sides to become even more unhinged.Tweet
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Was talking about the barbarism aspect.
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