It’s the players, not the manager

[caid]

Its not just the players. The team is badly put together.
Absolutely everyone was hoping for and expecting at least one midfield signing in Solskjaers first summer in charge. It was obvious years ago. We didn't really need Bruno or Van De Beek when Pogba was around but we really, really, really obviously needed a dm.

Its badly spent too. I'm sure we've spent absolute truck loads on forwards but we still need a first team striker and optimism on youth coming good on the wings. We have 130m worth of full backs in our squad and we need 2 first choice full backs. We have the best paid goalkeeper in the world who probably isn't suited to playing a high line. Our 80m cb looks even less suited to a high line.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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The only player I see that tracks back consistently is Fernandes. Especially over the last few games.

 

[Comet49]

The only player I see that tracks back consistently is Fernandes. Especially over the last few games.

I think Fernandes is all over the pitch is because he has no faith in the rest of them doing what they should, or what he thinks they should. No belief now, can’t be confident of the beating anybody.

 

[Comet49]

same post appeared twice when I tried to edit, whoops

 

[JebelSherif]

Honestly - can you remember this happening at any other club in the premier league...ever?

You make good points, but that thing I quoted has really made me think:

Why do Manchester Utd. think that trying something that no club has ever done before, is going to be the solution to all their problems.

By which I mean: has any other top club employed an 'interim' manager on a six month deal, but also included a 2 year consultancy contract on top? I can't think of one.

It's a bonkers idea.

First of all being 'interim' makes him essentially the supply teacher at Old Trafford (and I think we have seen that in recent games).

But if Ralf's methods suddenly click, he gets top-four or wins the CL, what happens then - do they convert the 'interim' designation into permanent manager and scrap the consultancy thing or what?

Or (and this is the more likely scenario) - if Utd. finish 6th or 7th and get dumped out of Europe by the first big team they meet, then what happens? Which top manager is going to want to come in and work with a 'consultant' above him in the hierarchy? especially when that 'consultant' has just had 2/3rds of a season in the top job and failed?

 

[0le]

Its not just the players. The team is badly put together.
Absolutely everyone was hoping for and expecting at least one midfield signing in Solskjaers first summer in charge. It was obvious years ago. We didn't really need Bruno or Van De Beek when Pogba was around but we really, really, really obviously needed a dm.

Its badly spent too. I'm sure we've spent absolute truck loads on forwards but we still need a first team striker and optimism on youth coming good on the wings. We have 130m worth of full backs in our squad and we need 2 first choice full backs. We have the best paid goalkeeper in the world who probably isn't suited to playing a high line. Our 80m cb looks even less suited to a high line.

We did need either Bruno or Van De Beek because if Pogba was injured the team had no other creative outlet. We also did need a full back because Valencia and Young were in decline and never great to begin with. Finally, we also did need a center-back because Smalling, Jones, Bailly and Lindelof were not good enough.

You can argue that the money was spent poorly but let us not pretend that DM was the only position which was problematic at the time.

The key problem occurred last summer where we focused on Sancho having already signed Diallo, Pellestri and seemingly Elanga on the periphery of the first team. We should have instead focused on the DM since Matic was in clear decline and Garner too young.

 

[Handsome Devil]

We need to let Pogba walk, Matic and Mata retire, Wan Bissaka try his luck in the NFL, Maguire go on an all wages paid trip back to Hull, Ronaldo run for mayor on Madeira, Rashford move full time into charity work, McTominay move to Hamilton Academicals on a free, and the Glazers can go and roll in their own shit. Then we might have a chance.

That cheered me up no end! Thanks @Dans

 

[lex talionis]

The manager is interim only. We can be critical of a few decisions, but he was handed a steaming pile.

This is another one those “Why did it all go wrong?” thread, of which we’ve had many here. By now I’m sure someone has written their Ph.D dissertation on how United went from the mountain top to toxic dumpster fire in less than a decade. I don’t have a grand theory on why we’ve decayed to this state, but I will just say that club management missed an opportunity — a glorious chance if you will — to thank Ole for his outstanding contributions to the club and replace him last May. Instead, we extended his contract and we instantly collapsed into farce. He stuck with players who were out of form, overlooked our need to strengthen the midfield, and in general indulged players who needed to be kept on a tighter leash.

 

[r0663664]

We did need either Bruno or Van De Beek because if Pogba was injured the team had no other creative outlet. We also did need a full back because Valencia and Young were in decline and never great to begin with. Finally, we also did need a center-back because Smalling, Jones, Bailly and Lindelof were not good enough.

You can argue that the money was spent poorly but let us not pretend that DM was the only position which was problematic at the time.

The key problem occurred last summer where we focused on Sancho having already signed Diallo, Pellestri and seemingly Elanga on the periphery of the first team. We should have instead focused on the DM since Matic was in clear decline and Garner too young.

I seriously don't know what Ole did. There are issues to address and he sign Diallo and Pellestri. Wouldn't this money better to sign a DM. I also don't why VDB was sign if you don't intend to play him. He is 23 yo who with Ajax who has a fee major clubs wanting to sign him. Maybe he is a striker and striker wins game so he neglect midfield. I guess Utd would probably be his last job as a manager.

 

[red4ever 79]

I've just realize our goal difference is 6, compared to the top two who have 40+. Fecking 6. In February. Shameful

 

[VanDeBank]

Nonsense.. Manager picks the players, including all the whiny cnuts and underperformers.

Part of Ralf's problem is that the players are unfit for his type of game, because they've been poorly trained by the previous regime. That takes time (he doesn't have) to undo.

 

[Hughie77]

Of course it is they are the ones on the pitch, do most on here think there is an improvement from Olly?
I have seen us better in possession, out of if we're mainly the same recovering lost balls has been the same as before in some ways. What we haven't done is score, we've created loads of chances not taken them 3 of them in last 3 games and conceded same. In the Premier league 1 goal is not enough usually as teams will create at least a decent chance if they take it ie Boro, Burnley , Saints, you get punished.
These guys realy in the last 2 games have conceded 4 mins into the 2nd half!.
Now that's Concentration, the mind suffers if your not on it and to keep the pressure up These guys need to be fitter . Quality they have plenty of it, but when the ball gets lost teams attack on us way to easy.

 

[NewGlory]

Like Mourinho ? But when he did that ,the people called him toxic , the fans side with the players. It makes the players know that they have more power than the manager have less responsibilities and could just blame every mess on the manager instead ,fanbase allow it to happen especially all those player fc fans.
If the player down tooled just because they don't like the manager , then let the manager either bench or bin them. Cause it means they lack professionalism , they have to play for the club , the fans , and for the salary they earn every week , not just for the manager.

i think that is why Mourinho went to Roma after both United and Spurs board betrayed him. Giving more power to the players will never end well.

Honestly, Mourinho was the only manager, post SAF, that had the level to manager United. His tactics are outdated and that is clearly a problem, but I agree with him 100% not tolerating bullshit. I think he did only two things wrong
1. Well, he didn't succeed. B..ching and moaning is not the point if you can't turn shit around
2. Once he was not backed by the board, and shit went clearly toxic he didn't resign. He stayed on to get fired. I am sure mostly because he wanted to collect 20M severance, but while financially he did the right thing, he damaged his reputation. Imagine if he'd resigned after United botched summer transfer window. He would be a fecking hero. Mourinho preferred 20M over being a hero. :shrug:

 

[JebelSherif]

Honestly, Mourinho was the only manager, post SAF, that had the level to manager United. His tactics are outdated and that is clearly a problem, but I agree with him 100% not tolerating bullshit. I think he did only two things wrong
1. Well, he didn't succeed. B..ching and moaning is not the point if you can't turn shit around
2. Once he was not backed by the board, and shit went clearly toxic he didn't resign. He stayed on to get fired. I am sure mostly because he wanted to collect 20M severance, but while financially he did the right thing, he damaged his reputation. Imagine if he'd resigned after United botched summer transfer window. He would be a fecking hero. Mourinho preferred 20M over being a hero. :shrug:

There was a third: he should have got a house and not lived in the Marriot Hotel which just sent out the message that he wasn't really in it for the long haul.

 

[jesperjaap]

It is the players but the caveat is, if you sign so many of the wrong players and peristently dont buy the right ones for the right positions.....dm being an obvious one for some time AND fail to move out certain players, what do you expect?

Whether this is management or the board is another story but its quite obvious the squad actually needs trimming, several players should leave and we still have several positions in the first eleven that need new players

 

[wina87]

Honestly, Mourinho was the only manager, post SAF, that had the level to manager United. His tactics are outdated and that is clearly a problem, but I agree with him 100% not tolerating bullshit. I think he did only two things wrong
1. Well, he didn't succeed. B..ching and moaning is not the point if you can't turn shit around
2. Once he was not backed by the board, and shit went clearly toxic he didn't resign. He stayed on to get fired. I am sure mostly because he wanted to collect 20M severance, but while financially he did the right thing, he damaged his reputation. Imagine if he'd resigned after United botched summer transfer window. He would be a fecking hero. Mourinho preferred 20M over being a hero. :shrug:

1.What do you mean with outdated tactic ? We actually looked the most organized under Mourinho , we don't concede much and actually created lot of chances that's why people are slating Zlatan for his miss , i mean how could he missed all those chances if we played a bad football ? He was the most successful manager post SAF proven with the number of trophies won which I won't be surprise if it becomes our last trophies for the next decade looking at how bad we are running as a club

2. Once he wasn't backed with the board , we , us , the fans should be the one backing him. But no , we side with the players instead, same deadwood who earned massive and we are still struggling to get rid off. We side with the board who deliver one of the worse summer window ever in our history

We are responsible for our own downfall. He once said "about united i only want to say 2 things , is that time has spoken and the problem is still there". Sacking him fix absolutely nothing and solve absolutely nothing. Even for the board , sacking him was very costly decision. For example , we could have sold Pogba , Martial and Shaw for over 200m (Pogba was in his highest stock after winning world cup before covid hit ) and backing him with his choice of players so he has no reason to turn toxic. But now we might lose Pogba for free, Martial went out loan after not contributing for long time , Shaw is still stinking the place out.

Even our club legend Ole Gunnar Solksjaer waits for severance payment after so many embarrassing defeat so you can't expect Mourinho to resign by himself, not when our only defeat in his last 10 games was against City and Liverpool.


I think Roma learned from our mistake and decide to 100 % back him over the players , you don't see any of their club legend talking crap like ours did for their own agenda.
I don't know whether we already learner our lesson or not.

 

[Greck]

this Mourinho nonsense is back. He fell out with Woodward over Harry bloody Maguire, the biggest meme at the club. He too had us on the wrong path. He wasn't infallible and definitely wasn't right for us just because he's better than Ole. Let's see how it pays off for Roma before acting like they've proven anything. He could just as easily end up sacked same time next year.

 

[VidaRed]

Even neville agrees its on the players.

 

[izec]

A lot has to do with the players. It is a new generation of players and i am not sure some of them even like football.

Our managers havent been good enough. The club in general hasnt been, from top to bottom. But our players are showing their colours under every new regime. We have assembled a group not fit for the shirt and purpose. No work ethic and cant deal with the pressure, nevermind their technical ability and intelligence on the pitch. Weak and toxic.

 

[pre Munich Red]

Of course it is the ‘players’, they are simply failing to do the work they are being highly paid to do.
Don’t know what the Ten Haag management style is, assuming he is the next ‘victim’, but I hope he will be given the backing to have a massive clear out, allowed to bring in the type of player who wants to work their backsides off.
Speaking of ‘backsides’, in the few months that Rangnick has left he needs to,apply steel capped boots to the backsides of Shaw, Maguire, Rashford, Pogba, in particular.

 

[Oranges038]

A lot has to do with the players. It is a new generation of players and i am not sure some of them even like football.

Our managers havent been good enough. The club in general hasnt been, from top to bottom. But our players are showing their colours under every new regime. We have assembled a group not fit for the shirt and purpose. No work ethic and cant deal with the pressure, nevermind their technical ability and intelligence on the pitch. Weak and toxic.

A lot of these players have been in academies since they were 7 or 8 years of age. They've done nothing but focus on football for most of their lives, it's only natural that eventually they become disillusioned and start to dislike the game to some extent.

Part of me thinks that a certain amount of this indifference to the game and lack of intelligence on the field comes from being over coached into systems from such a young age that really don't allow for free thinking.

 

[Beans]

2 seasons ago we looked like we had One of the best front lines around.

2019-20:
Martial (23 goals)
Rashford (22) - Bruno (12, 12 assists) - Greenwood (17)

2020-21:
Cavani (17)
Rashford (21) - Bruno (28) - Greenwood (12)

2021-22:
Ronaldo (14, hasn’t scored in ages)
Rashford (5) - Bruno (6) - Greenwood (6)


It’s Bruno and Rashford that are the big difference. And let’s not forget they weren’t getting it done under Ole either. Bruno seems burned out, no where near his world class form.

Plus I think Ole tried to play with more possession and it backfired. We may need to go back to counter attacking play just to get top 4, even if it’s against what we want going forward with gengenpressing.

 

[VidaRed]

Habitual offenders at it again.

Any manager that depends upon rashford, maguire, shaw, lingard and to a lesser extent pogba will eventually get sacked.

These players aren't only not utd quality but they couldn't be arsed to put in a shift either.

That first half performance was damming, rangnick called it a lack of "conviction" which means the players couldn't be motivated for knock out stage of the fecking champions league.

This simply is unforgivable at this level.

 

[dave1956]

Wearing the shirt and not being motivated at any level at Utd., let alone a game is truely unforgiveable and if a player has this mind set they should be shipped out

 

[VidaRed]

Spineless. Gutless. No fight.

I'd like to see the running stats for today, abysmal.

AWB - Shit
Maguire - Shit
McT - Shit

Fred - subpar
Lindelof - subpar

Bruno - avg, goes missing in big games
Pogba - avg, goes missing in big games

Lingard - wasn't arsed
Rashford - hopeless

 

[48 hours]

I hate pretty much all of them. Like spoilt children who down tools when asked to work for something

 

[Fooza]

most of this team need to leave, which is a shame because it can't all happen in all window

 

[100]

It's the club. It's been happening for 8 years now as managers and players come and go. The owners are shit, they appoint other inexperienced staff who won't rock the boat,rather than on merit. Woodward, Arnold, Fletcher, Murtough. Is anyone actually confident we'll move in the right direction? Ronaldo, Maguire, AWB, no January transfers. Decision after shit decision.

The players are obvious targets after a match like that but it goes way deeper. City, as horrible as their funding source is, are basically run as perfect as a modern club can be, and we're the complete opposite. We'll continue with shit recruitment because nothings actually changed - we'll get new players and they'll perform the same, and we'll blame them too.

 

[Adisa]

They aren't good enough. The whole club has gone to the dogs.

 

[The Dane]

Whoever comes in as our new Manager, we need to give him at least 2 seasons and 3-4 transfer windows to build a team. Hopefully he can turn some of the current players like Sancho, Bruno and Rashford around and have them perform to the standard we know they possess, but most of the current squad will have to be replaced, and most of them will never play for a top club again. This was their chance and they blew it.

 

[VidaRed]

Whoever comes in as our new Manager, we need to give him at least 2 seasons and 3-4 transfer windows to build a team. Hopefully he can turn some of the current players like Sancho, Bruno and Rashford around and have them perform to the standard we know they possess, but most of the current squad will have to be replaced, and most of them will never play for a top club again. This was their chance and they blew it.

Rashford is hopeless. Keeping him helps no one.

I wasn't one bit surprised when he ran into 5 city defenders today, i laughed because he does that every game. He hasn't got the brains to be a top player and when he loses a yard in his pace he'd really be shite if he isn't already.

Cut losses and move on, we can still get between 30-50m for him.

 

[L1nk]

If you think it’s the manager look at the match today, they just give up, have bo will to fight, no will to run, they are gutless and spineless because they know they’ll be cashing in over 200k a piece a week cause of this stupid club

 

[VidaRed]

 

[DickDastardly]

To come to this point from the start of the season is what's really depressing.

Varane not establishing his spot at all due to injuries/Covids/etc....

Ronaldo becoming shit after 5 games.

Greenwood with the psychokiller stuff

Rashford turning into crap.

Donny without a start and on loan...

The rest not only have they not upped their game, they fecking regressed into championship players.

And cherry on top, worst captain the club has ever seen.

 

[Waynne]

Captains of previous United teams were individuals that had fight in them. That Maguire is the captain of this United team says it all.

 

[VidaRed]

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[VidaRed]

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[DomesticTadpole]

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Roy on form there, can't argue with any of it either, not that I would dare argue with him. Which says something. His team were nasty and snarling. This lot are pussy cats.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

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Right send Keano in. Let's see how brave this lot are then. I am not even going to say they are going to the press, it is more likely they are having a right old whinge with their family and mates and someone close to them is going to the press.

 

[Bebestation]

For me it's the manager and not the players.

The players Klopp has improved from being average to good is exceptional.