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The captain, no less...I'll add that the only player who coasted yesterday was Pogba. The rest were fine.
The captain, no less...I'll add that the only player who coasted yesterday was Pogba. The rest were fine.
We've been failing to press effectively for ages. It's also a by product of playing horrible football. When you play poorly and without any coordination this is what's happens. But we did not settle for anything. We jut seemed to lack confidence and rhythm.The reason I made this thread is because it was abundantly clear yesterday that the players weren’t doing the basics. 0-0 with 20 minutes to play and we were sitting off and failing to press. Where was the urgency to push for a winner? It was pathetic – they had settled for a draw.
And Jose's signing.The captain, no less...
Who is also our most expensive player ever in history and is supposed to be the talisman of the team, driving us through such tough games with his individual quality.The captain, no less...
But we run a diffrerent model from majority of other clubs. So if in the end we approach this way, then why bothering giving a new manager full power at first just to overrule him in the end?Thats true but in the eyes of the board, when shit hits the fan, who is easier to replace - the manager or the players?
Happens at every club and has happened to Mourinho twice.
Because as good as people think he is (I don't rate Poch particularly that high to be fair), he won't ever be able to compete for the top trophies while he is at Spurs. In fact, he hasn't won anything in his career yet, and being in half of the budget his rivals are means that this won't change soon.I don’t see why Poch would come to us tbh. We aren’t the draw we think we are.
We're not overruling the manager. We're just not releasing funds to gut the squad which is 3rd in the table. I think thats the view Glazers will take. Just my opinion though. Hopefully, I'm wrong and they give Jose all the support he needs.But we run a diffrerent model from majority of other clubs. So if in the end we approach this way, then why bothering giving a new manager full power at first just to overrule him in the end?
He should never be captain. He's not serious enough. Give it Young or someone who cares. Not sure if Mourinho is trying to give him more responsibility or something.The captain, no less...
We look like we haven't got out of the first gear. Only urgency we showed yesterday was in the last 5 mins or so. Thats unacceptable. That's either on the manager or on the players.I haven't seen a lack of effort. I've seen frustration and a string of ridiculous misses.
It’s not short sighted in the slightest. Compare our squad with those of our rivals, plus respective form, and it’s a totally reasonable prediction. Everyone was chuntering on for ages about how it’s okay because we’re comfortably second and we’ve already been overhauled. Spurs and Liverpool are now right up our arses...Every team is far away from City and the top, who are having a freak season. We have improved since last year, and at the begining of the season everyone was purring about the potential of this team. We've had a bad 2 weeks, not helped by a bad run of injuries to key team members.
Granted, it's Jose's job to manage that but it's a convergence of injuries, players losing form, and a City team who have had a start the likes of which has never been seen.
With all due respect, to make a prediction of us continuing to fall and finish in 6th is looking at the last 2 weeks only, which is a fickle and short sighted point of view.
Do you really think the rest were fine?? Utterly abject performance from about 8/9 players, all showing a total lack of effort and desire. Half of them seem to not want to be the best in their position at the club let alone in the PL (let's forget about world class status as we only have 2 players in or even close to that).I'll add that the only player who coasted yesterday was Pogba. The rest were fine.
Completely scattergun spending. I don’t think we’ve signed one player that you could say has been an outright success. Fecking diabolical.Thought this thread was going to be regarding the outrageous amount of money available/given to our managers post Ferguson.
Silly amounts of money to shape the squad as they see fit.
Aye, here goes the you don't appreciate till you lose it adage but that's ultimately the truth here, SAF kept literally everything together here.Ah right fair enough mate. I agree with all that but I just like to add that hiring 1 clown and two managers with 2 completely different philosophies. Thats the problem right there for me. Everyone is brought their own ideas and ultimately nothing really worked with these players - which is why we need a DoF in my opinion, who has a clear view of identity the club. At the minute we're looking rudderless. Whist at City they've been preparing for Pep for years. It's no coincidence once SAF left we've lost direction. I don't think throwing money at the problem will change anything until we have a clear structure at the club. Think the footballing side of the club is run by fecking amateurs. Sir Alex literally held everything together through his unrivalled motivation to succeed. He really is a giant of the game.
Aye, here goes the you don't appreciate till you lose it adage but that's ultimately the truth here, SAF kept literally everything together here.
That needs to change, clearly. Should build for the future and continuity of the club no matter who the manager is.Completely scattergun spending. I don’t think we’ve signed one player that you could say has been an outright success. Fecking diabolical.
Once he won the title though he never finished outside the top 4 again.Selective memory exists and some of you train their mind to forget embarrassing moments completely.
I'm sure some teams under SAF were boring or under-achieving.
Fergie was an incredible coach. One thing he did best was to constantly pressure and motivate his players into getting results.The manager should shoulder some of the blame it's his job to motivate the players at the end of the day.
For context, the lowest position Ferguson achieved in the PL era was third. Not even comparable to now.
Sir Alex knew how to reinvent his own tactics and was always improving, he more than earned the trust of everyone involved in Manchester United to be allowed time and resources.Jose on the other hand just keeps on moaning about everything being against himself.
Thanks.Once he won the title though he never finished outside the top 4 again.
If Ferguson was 20 years younger I doubt Smalling, Mata and Herrera would be here and I guarantee Harry Kane would be playing up front. Although I blame Gill and him for a lot of our issues the guy is a fecking legend of the game. Longevity coupled with consistent success and the ability to rebuild and adapt to a changing game will never be matched. His only comparison for longevity is Wenger but he is an embarrassment at this point and I think he is only hanging on so he can be the longest serving manager but the longer he stays the more he becomes a tumor on that club. He is not fit to open Sir Alex's win never mind match him professionally.Fergie was an incredible coach. One thing he did best was to constantly pressure and motivate his players into getting results.
Effort wise, yes. Peformance wise we were rubbish.Do you really think the rest were fine?? Utterly abject performance from about 8/9 players, all showing a total lack of effort and desire. Half of them seem to not want to be the best in their position at the club let alone in the PL (let's forget about world class status as we only have 2 players in or even close to that).
If they weren't coasting I'd hate to see it when they are.
Why do people cite the Dof model as if it isn't fulkl of problems itself? There's been countless issues at other clubs where a Dof brings in players who the manager doesn't want and it leads to all sorts of blame shifting and problems. Pep doesn't have a Dof telling him who they need to sign and if a manager's head is ultimately on the chopping block then he should have full control over transfers just like Fergie did. Moyes and LVG were woeful in the transfer market and both ultimately paid the price but neither can say someone else picked the players. You'll end up with a weekly Giggs/Wenger quote of "I told Dof to sign X instead he bought Y".A DoF should be urgently installed, with a clear vision on how we are going to play for the next decade or so.
Give money to a manager, sack him when he fails, to only give the money to the other manager who decides that he doesn't fancy most of players the previous manager signed will lead us nowhere else but in mediocrity.
Failing to press.. whose fault is that?The reason I made this thread is because it was abundantly clear yesterday that the players weren’t doing the basics. 0-0 with 20 minutes to play and we were sitting off and failing to press. Where was the urgency to push for a winner? It was pathetic – they had settled for a draw.
Feck me, tactics or not, there were ten minutes left against a shit team at home and the score was 0-0 – are these players incapable of a bit of independent thought and urgency?Failing to press.. whose fault is that?
Every big club has a DoF-like position, including City who have Bergeristein who was creating the platform for Pep to succeed.Why do people cite the Dof model as if it isn't fulkl of problems itself? There's been countless issues at other clubs where a Dof brings in players who the manager doesn't want and it leads to all sorts of blame shifting and problems. Pep doesn't have a Dof telling him who they need to sign and if a manager's head is ultimately on the chopping block then he should have full control over transfers just like Fergie did. Moyes and LVG were woeful in the transfer market and both ultimately paid the price but neither can say someone else picked the players. You'll end up with a weekly Giggs/Wenger quote of "I told Dof to sign X instead he bought Y".
And that's the most effective way to evaluate a manager at any given time. People have the bad habit to judge managers by their palmares or their reputation as if there was no evolution or fluctuations. When a manager is in a period of greatness or at least at his peak, he will maintain a high level of cohesion, focus, hunger and he will make the sum greater than its parts. The same way I felt that LVG was done around February of his first season, I feel that Mourinho and Ancelotti are also done or close to be done.The squad has long changed since Moyes' tenure here. Players downing tools is something that happens at almost every club eventually and is why the manager gets sacked and replaced (Chelsea as a club is a great example of this).
Very true. We can go on about Jose being tactically dull, but at the moment, the players on more than one occasion don't look capable of doing the fundamental basics of football correctly. You can't really blame him for that, they're all top level professionals.Feck me, tactics or not, there were ten minutes left against a shit team at home and the score was 0-0 – are these players incapable of a bit of independent thought and urgency?
It's true some of them under achieved, but it was usually for 1 or 2 seasons followed by massive success. Early 2000s we struggled, but then went on to win 4 titles in a row. Same with the late 2000s when Rooney and Ronaldo were developing, we went on to reach 3 out of 4 CL finals.Selective memory exists and some of you train their mind to forget embarrassing moments completely.
I'm sure some teams under SAF were boring or under-achieving.
When you're default way of playing is to not press, and you're feeling demotivated in general and there is a general lack of proactive leadership on and off the pitch .. how are you going to expect 11 men to galvanise each other and collectively organise an effective press?Feck me, tactics or not, there were ten minutes left against a shit team at home and the score was 0-0 – are these players incapable of a bit of independent thought and urgency?
jesus wept...I don’t see why Poch would come to us tbh. We aren’t the draw we think we are.
Mou has made many allusions to the players having to take responsibility when out on the pitch. He has been scathing of Shaw’s lack of autonomy and made a comment after Leicester about not being able to stop the game for two minutes to give them a team talk. He has also talked about immaturity within the team. I’ve thought it for a long while – we have some seriously thick players.Very true. We can go on about Jose being tactically dull, but at the moment, the players on more than one occasion don't look capable of doing the fundamental basics of football correctly. You can't really blame him for that, they're all top level professionals.
Spurs are London based, moving into a new stadium, upwardly mobile and generally don’t flog their best players anymore unless silly money is being offered.jesus wept...