It is tiring pretending that there is not a right way to 'support' a club - there absolutely is

Wumminator

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There seems to be a pervading theme on this forum as there is in real life. It's an idea that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. The amount of nonsense I have seen posted that is excused with, 'Well we are all fans - sometimes we let emotions get the better of us.'

After a win yesterday, there are more negative posts than there are positive ones. As I type this the top three threads in the player performances forum are Lingard/James and Greenwood. No prizes for guessing the content of these threads. There's no denying that once we lose the post match thread gets roughly five times as many posts as when we win comfortably. Negativity sells on forums and amasses plenty of replies.

This is not how you support a football team.

Supporting a team is about getting together and backing the lads. It's about giving the local lads more leeway. It's about believing in 'legends' of the club and supporting them. It's about having positive feelings about Manchester United.

Some of you clearly get no joy from a game unless we win every match. Some of you want new players, new managers, new formations every week instead of taking pride in the journey.

Support the team. Don't make up childish nicknames. Don't insult those in the team you don't think are good enough. Don't post five negative comments for every half hearted positive comment you can see. Don't stick up for pundits or players who insult our team.

Get behind the lads. Wish them the best. Wish that the player you hate the most can turn it around. Give the young winger who loses the ball a bit of slack. Believe that the player on the fringes might turn it around.

It must be so miserable for some of you.
 

Crustanoid

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Hear hear.

However, short of lobotomising the compulsive negativity spreaders, I don’t know what the solution is.
 

Davìd Moyéz

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Totally agree. Do not understand the mindset of wanting to write players off if they're not the complete finished article. Dropped into the Scott Mctominay thread this week and the comments are almost overwhelmingly negative. This is a lad that has come through the academy, gives his all for the club, seems a nice guy, has now captained the club, scored a winner yesterday and has had some excellent games for us. Yes he's not Roy Keane but he's clearly a valuable squad member. If a United fan can't want the best for someone like that then you have to question what pleasure they get out of supporting the club.
 

BaneIsPain

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I agree with this. New player should be given free pass in first season.
Always love it when local lads performed well.
 
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sparx99

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I think it’s understandable to have more posts after a loss. A comfortable win and we just go about our day happy. A loss inevitably leads to some venting of frustration. It doesn’t have to come from a place of wanting the team to fail or whatever.

As for people who have agendas against certain players I don’t get that. Any number of the players disappoint me or get on my nerves at times but I want them to succeed.
 

RashyForPM

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Yeah this is true. Constructive criticism for bad performances is fine but abuse and excessive negativity is not. I don’t know what the people getting angry at the performance yesterday was expecting. We rightly put fringe players like James, Lingard and Mata out there, so we’re not supposed to steamroll a PL level side 5-0. 1-0 was a good result, made even better by the fact that the main men will all be fresher for two massive away games in the coming week. Also, players like Williams and Tuanzebe did very well. Let’s praise them instead.

We’ve played very well recently and are joint-top with a game in hand, yet there is still loads of moaning, and people slandering and casting aspersions on Ole and the players, and other United fans. I saw a few posts in the Villa post-match thread complaining that we had 2% less possession! I mean, come on. Save the negativity for players who really disrespect us like Sánchez, rather than the likes of James, Jones and Lingard.

Don’t know about giving the local lads more room for error though tbh. I’m willing to give Diallo and Facundo the same amount of leeway as I did Rashford when he just broke through and was more raw than now. He is my favourite player now, and I want the aforementioned two to become as good as him, or even better if at all possible.
 

PoTMS

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There seems to be a pervading theme on this forum as there is in real life. It's an idea that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. The amount of nonsense I have seen posted that is excused with, 'Well we are all fans - sometimes we let emotions get the better of us.'

After a win yesterday, there are more negative posts than there are positive ones. As I type this the top three threads in the player performances forum are Lingard/James and Greenwood. No prizes for guessing the content of these threads. There's no denying that once we lose the post match thread gets roughly five times as many posts as when we win comfortably. Negativity sells on forums and amasses plenty of replies.

This is not how you support a football team.

Supporting a team is about getting together and backing the lads. It's about giving the local lads more leeway. It's about believing in 'legends' of the club and supporting them. It's about having positive feelings about Manchester United.

Some of you clearly get no joy from a game unless we win every match. Some of you want new players, new managers, new formations every week instead of taking pride in the journey.

Support the team. Don't make up childish nicknames. Don't insult those in the team you don't think are good enough. Don't post five negative comments for every half hearted positive comment you can see. Don't stick up for pundits or players who insult our team.

Get behind the lads. Wish them the best. Wish that the player you hate the most can turn it around. Give the young winger who loses the ball a bit of slack. Believe that the player on the fringes might turn it around.

It must be so miserable for some of you.
On the whole I agree but it's quite rich coming from you. Were you of this mindset under Mourinho?
 

cyberman

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I do think a large percentage of our fanbase are bottlers and it appears as being a negative fan
 
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Why do we have to give the local lads more leeway? That makes no sense. I judge every player equally when it comes to representing my club. It’s weird how left wing redcafe gets so nationalist when talking about the United squad. People who criticise the players or manager simply want the club to be better. What you’re asking for here is blind faith, sometimes people just aren’t good enough for the size & expectations of the club. Players like Dan James for example clearly are not good enough & it’s extremely unlikely he ever will be. If we took your approach the likes of Cleverley & Welbeck would still be starting for us. This “support the lads” attitude just looks like a lack of ambition to me. The players & the manager are expendable replaceable employees, my support is for the club.
 

Mindhunter

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Why can’t everyone get along? Why can’t people on social media behave like how they would in real life? Why do people crib all the time? Can’t they just stop and we shall have utopia?

Redcafe doesn’t exist in a bubble. Look at what’s happening around the world. Social media does bring out the worst in us. People are loose with words when they are typed digitally in a forum. People are more instinctive when they have instant gratification of publishing what they think the moment they think without any time for reflection.

You are arguing against human nature. It’s not going to change.
 

cyberman

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Why do we have to give the local lads more leeway? That makes no sense. I judge every player equally when it comes to representing my club. It’s weird how left wing redcafe gets so nationalist when talking about the United squad. People who criticise the players or manager simply want the club to be better. What you’re asking for here is blind faith, sometimes people just aren’t good enough for the size & expectations of the club. Players like Dan James for example clearly are not good enough & it’s extremely unlikely he ever will be. If we took your approach the likes of Cleverley & Welbeck would still be starting for us. This “support the lads” attitude just looks like a lack of ambition to me. The players & the manager are expendable replaceable employees, my support is for the club.
Because teams will be less inclined to give youth a chance if we jump over every young players dodgy appearance.
Theres high standards and theres not giving youth an environment to flourish
 

acnumber9

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Unless the manager is Jose Mourinho. In which case it’s fine to be negative and want new managers.
 
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Why do we have to give the local lads more leeway? That makes no sense. I judge every player equally when it comes to representing my club. It’s weird how left wing redcafe gets so nationalist when talking about the United squad. People who criticise the players or manager simply want the club to be better. What you’re asking for here is blind faith, sometimes people just aren’t good enough for the size & expectations of the club. Players like Dan James for example clearly are not good enough & it’s extremely unlikely he ever will be. If we took your approach the likes of Cleverley & Welbeck would still be starting for us. This “support the lads” attitude just looks like a lack of ambition to me. The players & the manager are expendable replaceable employees, my support is for the club.
I think you should look at the history of the club if you don’t understand why United promote youth.

Just from a financial point of view we need players to come through, and they take time. with a player we buy, generally they are further along in their development. And have already gone through some of the teething issues going players have.

Just in terms of Welbeck and Cleverly - both players came in and played a lot of games, they contributed to title winning teams. They weren’t stars of the team, but the alternative would have been to buy in squad players for £5-15m (at the time). Not everyone needs to be a starter or a superstar.
 

Wumminator

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On the whole I agree but it's quite rich coming from you. Were you of this mindset under Mourinho?
If someone doesn’t uphold the values of your club, it is slightly different. I gave Mourinho more than enough time.
 

MU655

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Translation: have the same opinion as me. In the end, it is the people who complain that lead to standards remaining higher. If there is no bite back for poor performances, those previously unacceptable levels inherently become acceptable. So, I do not agree entirely with the post.

I always find it funny when people on one side always think their innocent in any problems. It takes more than one person to argue. I have seen it the other way around as well, people getting criticised because they didn't like an aspect of a game that we won. Usually, it is calling people miserable based on 'we won, why are you being critical?'.

Babyish name-calling exists on both sides.
 

TwoSheds

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Totally agree. Do not understand the mindset of wanting to write players off if they're not the complete finished article. Dropped into the Scott Mctominay thread this week and the comments are almost overwhelmingly negative. This is a lad that has come through the academy, gives his all for the club, seems a nice guy, has now captained the club, scored a winner yesterday and has had some excellent games for us. Yes he's not Roy Keane but he's clearly a valuable squad member. If a United fan can't want the best for someone like that then you have to question what pleasure they get out of supporting the club.
It's baffling isn't it, particularly what you're saying about McTominay. I mean he's a tiny kid that nobody thought would make it here who ended up somehow becoming a giant. Coach after coach loves him, he's passionate and professional, he's scored against loads of our rivals. Yes he's frustrating because he's not a natural class footballer like some of our squad but how you can't at least wish him well and support him while he's here I don't understand. He's also clearly good enough to play a role for us even if ideally it wouldn't be as first choice.
 

RUCK4444

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There seems to be a pervading theme on this forum as there is in real life. It's an idea that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. The amount of nonsense I have seen posted that is excused with, 'Well we are all fans - sometimes we let emotions get the better of us.'

After a win yesterday, there are more negative posts than there are positive ones. As I type this the top three threads in the player performances forum are Lingard/James and Greenwood. No prizes for guessing the content of these threads. There's no denying that once we lose the post match thread gets roughly five times as many posts as when we win comfortably. Negativity sells on forums and amasses plenty of replies.

This is not how you support a football team.

Supporting a team is about getting together and backing the lads. It's about giving the local lads more leeway. It's about believing in 'legends' of the club and supporting them. It's about having positive feelings about Manchester United.

Some of you clearly get no joy from a game unless we win every match. Some of you want new players, new managers, new formations every week instead of taking pride in the journey.

Support the team. Don't make up childish nicknames. Don't insult those in the team you don't think are good enough. Don't post five negative comments for every half hearted positive comment you can see. Don't stick up for pundits or players who insult our team.

Get behind the lads. Wish them the best. Wish that the player you hate the most can turn it around. Give the young winger who loses the ball a bit of slack. Believe that the player on the fringes might turn it around.

It must be so miserable for some of you.
This!!

You can’t be a proper fan and do these things though without being called a ‘top red.’

Its not about being a better supporter than others, it’s simple, if you don’t do these things then your doing it wrong.
 

GreenHeron

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On the whole I agree but it's quite rich coming from you. Were you of this mindset under Mourinho?
Mourinho deliberately threw a match (v West Ham) by playing Herrera and McTominay at the back despite having 2 defenders on the bench and then dragged us further through the gutter by praising West Ham's scouts for a player who's scarcely played since. He dragged us through the gutter with press conferences like the one after the Sevilla game. His treatment of players was tantamount to bullying.

Damn right he deserved calling out for that.

To equate that with constant negativity against players who are clearly trying their proverbials off and against the team for "only" winning 1-0 with a reserve team says more about you than about Wumminator. And none of it good.
 

Desert Eagle

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Top reds unite!! Maybe we can go trophyless another 3-4 years so we weed out these toxic negative fans. I always try to conflate someones football opinion with how they are in real life. 100% record so far!
 

Sweet Square

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What you’re asking for here is blind faith, sometimes people just aren’t good enough for the size & expectations of the club. Players like Dan James for example clearly are not good enough & it’s extremely unlikely he ever will be. If we took your approach the likes of Cleverley & Welbeck would still be starting for us. This “support the lads” attitude just looks like a lack of ambition to me. The players & the manager are expendable replaceable employees, my support is for the club.
Er.....

Manchester is my heaven - Matt Busby
 

Bilbo

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Criticism is fine, and always has been, if it is constructive, but we don't tend to get a lot of that on here these days.

Too many people on here seem to have their entire mental wellbeing resting on the outcome of our matches, and it leads to meltdowns when most of the time they aren't necessary.
 

Tom Cato

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I genuinely hope that the club advices the players to never seek out social media or fan forums.

I guarantee that some players or and definitely a lot of the academy players and talents visits the Redcafe frequently out of curiosity. This is the biggest Manchester United community there is, of course they will be curious about what's being said.

A lot of fans will spend no calories actively supporting someone who's going through a rough patch or generally underperforming. Not my favorite people, but it is what it is.

My point: Be mindful of what you write online.
 

diarm

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Great thread. Our support has become ridden with bed wetters, to the extent that most sane people avoid the football related threads on here.

People nowadays are just so bored with their soft, comfortable lives that they constantly need things to moan about - not just in sport, but seemingly in all aspects of society.

If you can't get excited by the squad and academy full of exciting young talent that we're building, what are you doing following a club like United? There are clubs like PSG and City to follow if you want to demand ready bought title challenging squads and don't care about player development.
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
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Messages
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Why do we have to give the local lads more leeway? That makes no sense. I judge every player equally when it comes to representing my club. It’s weird how left wing redcafe gets so nationalist when talking about the United squad. People who criticise the players or manager simply want the club to be better. What you’re asking for here is blind faith, sometimes people just aren’t good enough for the size & expectations of the club. Players like Dan James for example clearly are not good enough & it’s extremely unlikely he ever will be. If we took your approach the likes of Cleverley & Welbeck would still be starting for us. This “support the lads” attitude just looks like a lack of ambition to me. The players & the manager are expendable replaceable employees, my support is for the club.
You're not the manager, your opinion about a player doesn't matter one bit. I still enjoy watching Welbeck play for example and am glad he's getting regular games at Brighton. Nice, local lad who's done ok in his career. Doesn't mean I wish he was back at United. Nor does it mean it would be healthy for me to have constantly whinged about him when he was here. I didn't decide he wasn't good enough, Van Gaal did and he was right I think in that case.

One player who I think really suffered from his treatment by United fans and could have had a better career with us with better support was Nani. I felt so sorry for him in his last couple of years with fans in the stadium groaning as soon as he touched the ball. His confidence was through the floor by the time he got moved on.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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On the whole I agree but it's quite rich coming from you. Were you of this mindset under Mourinho?
Mourinho was toxic for this club and fan base, that’s nothing like the situation we are in now. Most fans realise this and were right to criticise a manager that had no right being here.
 

Turnip

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The word "support" actually has a meaning which tells you all you should need to know. At the same time, if you enjoy seeing "your" team fail if it means you get what you want then you can do whatever you want, even if it makes you a bit of an arsehole.
 

Pogue Mahone

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There seems to be a pervading theme on this forum as there is in real life. It's an idea that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. The amount of nonsense I have seen posted that is excused with, 'Well we are all fans - sometimes we let emotions get the better of us.'

After a win yesterday, there are more negative posts than there are positive ones. As I type this the top three threads in the player performances forum are Lingard/James and Greenwood. No prizes for guessing the content of these threads. There's no denying that once we lose the post match thread gets roughly five times as many posts as when we win comfortably. Negativity sells on forums and amasses plenty of replies.

This is not how you support a football team.

Supporting a team is about getting together and backing the lads. It's about giving the local lads more leeway. It's about believing in 'legends' of the club and supporting them. It's about having positive feelings about Manchester United.

Some of you clearly get no joy from a game unless we win every match. Some of you want new players, new managers, new formations every week instead of taking pride in the journey.

Support the team. Don't make up childish nicknames. Don't insult those in the team you don't think are good enough. Don't post five negative comments for every half hearted positive comment you can see. Don't stick up for pundits or players who insult our team.

Get behind the lads. Wish them the best. Wish that the player you hate the most can turn it around. Give the young winger who loses the ball a bit of slack. Believe that the player on the fringes might turn it around.

It must be so miserable for some of you.
Do you think you supported the club “the right way” when Mourinho was in charge?
 

mitchmouse

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Oct 8, 2014
Messages
9,331
There seems to be a pervading theme on this forum as there is in real life. It's an idea that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. The amount of nonsense I have seen posted that is excused with, 'Well we are all fans - sometimes we let emotions get the better of us.'

After a win yesterday, there are more negative posts than there are positive ones. As I type this the top three threads in the player performances forum are Lingard/James and Greenwood. No prizes for guessing the content of these threads. There's no denying that once we lose the post match thread gets roughly five times as many posts as when we win comfortably. Negativity sells on forums and amasses plenty of replies.

This is not how you support a football team.

Supporting a team is about getting together and backing the lads. It's about giving the local lads more leeway. It's about believing in 'legends' of the club and supporting them. It's about having positive feelings about Manchester United.

Some of you clearly get no joy from a game unless we win every match. Some of you want new players, new managers, new formations every week instead of taking pride in the journey.

Support the team. Don't make up childish nicknames. Don't insult those in the team you don't think are good enough. Don't post five negative comments for every half hearted positive comment you can see. Don't stick up for pundits or players who insult our team.

Get behind the lads. Wish them the best. Wish that the player you hate the most can turn it around. Give the young winger who loses the ball a bit of slack. Believe that the player on the fringes might turn it around.

Obviously, there should be facts behind the criticism i.e, if martial continually misses 1-on-1 chances I can hold the belief (and air it) that he is not a natural goal scorer and a club of United's staturee can do better. If I just call Maguire a tosser, that's clearly pretty stupid.

It must be so miserable for some of you.
Well, Generalissimo, thanks for telling us how to behave. Except for one thing: if you blindly follow people or groups or something without a critical eye, you are little more than sheep. Little more than the cretins who followed Trump. Or do you believe if you keep telling yourself every week that we are going to win 120-0 that it will happen?

I have as much right to criticise a club I've supported since I could first kick a ball as much as I like - just as I can criticise the government, a train service that bollocks things up or a supermarket for selling rotten food.
 

mitchmouse

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Translation: have the same opinion as me. In the end, it is the people who complain that lead to standards remaining higher. If there is no bite back for poor performances, those previously unacceptable levels inherently become acceptable. So, I do not agree entirely with the post.

I always find it funny when people on one side always think their innocent in any problems. It takes more than one person to argue. I have seen it the other way around as well, people getting criticised because they didn't like an aspect of a game that we won. Usually, it is calling people miserable based on 'we won, why are you being critical?'.

Babyish name-calling exists on both sides.
yes
 

mitchmouse

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It's baffling isn't it, particularly what you're saying about McTominay. I mean he's a tiny kid that nobody thought would make it here who ended up somehow becoming a giant. Coach after coach loves him, he's passionate and professional, he's scored against loads of our rivals. Yes he's frustrating because he's not a natural class footballer like some of our squad but how you can't at least wish him well and support him while he's here I don't understand. He's also clearly good enough to play a role for us even if ideally it wouldn't be as first choice.
I'd pick him ahead of Pogba on attitude alone. I love his effort and passion even if he is closer to Darren fletcher than he is to Roy Keane
 

Tom Cato

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Why do we have to give the local lads more leeway? That makes no sense. I judge every player equally when it comes to representing my club. It’s weird how left wing redcafe gets so nationalist when talking about the United squad. People who criticise the players or manager simply want the club to be better. What you’re asking for here is blind faith, sometimes people just aren’t good enough for the size & expectations of the club. Players like Dan James for example clearly are not good enough & it’s extremely unlikely he ever will be. If we took your approach the likes of Cleverley & Welbeck would still be starting for us. This “support the lads” attitude just looks like a lack of ambition to me. The players & the manager are expendable replaceable employees, my support is for the club.
Without the players and staff Manchester United is just a name on a building that's going to decrepit over time until it crumbles into a pile of dust and memories of people long forgotten. For a sport that is largely built on entertainment and peoples emotional connetion to club and players, pretending that we're a faceless Fortune 500 company that should only judge its character on the bottom line is a very impressive way of pretending to be something you're not: An automaton who'se prime objective is to win above all else.

I think you're intentionally ignoring the rich history this club has with it's local lads and academy graduates. The class of 92' has literally reached legend status as a group, not just as individuals. And you don't understand why support for the locals lads is a central tenet of this club? Really?

Up untl 2004 football fans were largely what most Manchester United fans remain today: Passionate fans with tunnelvision when it comes to their own players and history. History is important, it's the very REASON to support something.

After Roman bought Chelsea we started to slowly enter a period of football where enormous amounts of cash was funneled into the sport, social media took off and it changed the entire ecosystem in terms of availability, discussion, discourse and loyalty.

Football fans in their early 20s and younger have grown up with the realization that football clubs should buy every player thanks to the help of their incredibly rich owners to win everything. Clubs like PSG, Manchester City and Chelsea are completely fabricated teams that wouldn't exist today without it's owners funneling money the club never had the potential to aquire on it's own. Even Liverpool were saved from mediocricy during the Fenway takeover.

Rich owners have become just a important part of a clubs identity as the players to some fans, buying your way to the top is the norm. Loyalty is to no one. It's the real life version of Football Manager where players are as expendable as their last performance. "We can just get a new centerback for £50 million, how hard can it be".

Imagine thinking that the people who have entire sections of the club named after them, are former expendable replacable employees.
 

mitchmouse

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Mourinho deliberately threw a match (v West Ham) by playing Herrera and McTominay at the back despite having 2 defenders on the bench and then dragged us further through the gutter by praising West Ham's scouts for a player who's scarcely played since. He dragged us through the gutter with press conferences like the one after the Sevilla game. His treatment of players was tantamount to bullying.

Damn right he deserved calling out for that.

To equate that with constant negativity against players who are clearly trying their proverbials off and against the team for "only" winning 1-0 with a reserve team says more about you than about Wumminator. And none of it good.
you best hope he doesn't read your post (or anyone he knows doesn't show it to him as it's so defamatory you wouldn't even get into a court house before having to cough up. In fact, given the law of libel, I'd suggest a mod removes it
 

mitchmouse

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there's really an award for "Top Red" of the year? I thought that was a joke - it should be
 

Andersons Dietician

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There seems to be a pervading theme on this forum as there is in real life. It's an idea that people shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. The amount of nonsense I have seen posted that is excused with, 'Well we are all fans - sometimes we let emotions get the better of us.'

After a win yesterday, there are more negative posts than there are positive ones. As I type this the top three threads in the player performances forum are Lingard/James and Greenwood. No prizes for guessing the content of these threads. There's no denying that once we lose the post match thread gets roughly five times as many posts as when we win comfortably. Negativity sells on forums and amasses plenty of replies.

This is not how you support a football team.

Supporting a team is about getting together and backing the lads. It's about giving the local lads more leeway. It's about believing in 'legends' of the club and supporting them. It's about having positive feelings about Manchester United.

Some of you clearly get no joy from a game unless we win every match. Some of you want new players, new managers, new formations every week instead of taking pride in the journey.

Support the team. Don't make up childish nicknames. Don't insult those in the team you don't think are good enough. Don't post five negative comments for every half hearted positive comment you can see. Don't stick up for pundits or players who insult our team.

Get behind the lads. Wish them the best. Wish that the player you hate the most can turn it around. Give the young winger who loses the ball a bit of slack. Believe that the player on the fringes might turn it around.

It must be so miserable for some of you.
This is how people storm capital buildings.