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2023-24 Performances


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RedRonaldo

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I don't mind him feeling happy and showing his class there. His problem at United isn't a lack of talent, and I even hesitate to say it's work rate. It's not being right for our needs, it's not being too suited for the league, but most of all I think it's mental pressure and competing with other top players for the position rather than being confident and comfortable, knowing you are the main man and won't be benched after a bad game. Different mentalities are needed at different clubs. If we can get back 40m or so in the summer that would be good for us, and I think Dortmund would pay it as he can basically look like a world class player for them.
Yeh he surely looks good for them. Maybe he just doesn’t fit in our system (counter attack based transitional football with very few build ups). Hope he could keeps up with his form there so that would encourage Dortmund to pay something like 40m for him next summer. Win win situations for everyone.
 

mancsarered

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Think all parties need to come to peace with the fact that the Bundesliga is his level. He's not suited for the Premier League. Look at what Morata is doing in La Liga right now. You can be a great player in one country, and subpar in England. We got burned by Dortmund again, but hopefully we offload him for a decent price tag and cut our losses.
 

r0663664

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It seems he has more time of the ball than in premiere league, hopefully there is a deal for him so we recover 30 million pound.
 

Munkehboi

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I would have expected our U-18 to beat Darmstatd. Their defending is woeful before we start creaming over Sancho again. Watch the highlights and check out the defending for Dortmunds 3rd goal. More comical than genius from Moukoko. This is Sanchos level.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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I can't help but wonder, how many United forwards make that run or get that finish for the goal? It came off the right, too, how many times has Antony put in that cross?

Don't get me wrong, still think his attitude was terrible here and I mostly blame only our recruiting team and Sancho for his debacle here. But there is more to his downturn in form than just the "There is space in Bundesliga" argument. Irrespective of how well he performs for Dortmund now, he had some very obvious strengths before he joined us. Why couldn't we at least get him to show that? This is is not the first time in the last few years that our footballing structure has reduced a top talent to a shadow of himself - manager or player. We are a club set up to fail.

When you have a player who is infamous for his lack of professionalism despite his talent, and a manager who's famous for discipline despite the cost in performance, they were bound to clash. We needed someone higher up to anticipate this and mediate preemptively. Or at least in the early days (which would have been last year).

This preemptive action was worth at least 40m in transfer fee, 200k in wages, and about 5-10 points in the league table. Why could we not see the value (or cost) of resolving this quickly before things got out of hand?
 

Tyrion

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I can't help but wonder, how many United forwards make that run or get that finish for the goal? It came off the right, too, how many times has Antony put in that cross?

Don't get me wrong, still think his attitude was terrible here and I mostly blame only our recruiting team and Sancho for his debacle here. But there is more to his downturn in form than just the "There is space in Bundesliga" argument. Irrespective of how well he performs for Dortmund now, he had some very obvious strengths before he joined us. Why couldn't we at least get him to show that? This is is not the first time in the last few years that our footballing structure has reduced a top talent to a shadow of himself - manager or player. We are a club set up to fail.

When you have a player who is infamous for his lack of professionalism despite his talent, and a manager who's famous for discipline despite the cost in performance, they were bound to clash. We needed someone higher up to anticipate this and mediate preemptively. Or at least in the early days (which would have been last year).

This preemptive action was worth at least 40m in transfer fee, 200k in wages, and about 5-10 points in the league table. Why could we not see the value (or cost) of resolving this quickly before things got out of hand?
What preemptive action? Sancho performed badly and trained badly. It was eventually going to come to a head, especially as he is willing to publicly complain.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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What preemptive action? Sancho performed badly and trained badly. It was eventually going to come to a head, especially as he is willing to publicly complain.
Yes, of course he did both - train and perform badly. He shouldn't have, and he certainly should have shown more faith in his manager after the support (albeit it was silent) for the months he was away. They're was no gratitude for it. He is the primary culprit.

But the club is losing a lot of transfer fee, wages, and points this season for his behavior. Could we have prevented that? Was there no way Murtaugh could have mediated to save PR for both parties?

One preemptuve action would be to talk to both parties early in, and put Sancho up for sale due to 'difference in opinions'. Both EtH and Sancho say they respect each other but have to split ways due to personal reasons. Recoup some of that fee before Sancho kicks up a fuss.
 

Borys

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He just doesn’t have the acceleration needed to beat defenders in the Premier League and he’s not direct enough.
Hope he keeps playing well for Dortmund so we can get a decent chunk back for him and fingers crossed reinvest it better.
That has more to do with our team setup than the Premier League. At United he was expected to beat the fullback in 1on1 or even 1vs2, this is because we are poor at moving the ball quickly and don't generate space for attackers. This is why only rapid players like Rashford or Garnacho shine on the wings.

I'm sure Sancho will struggle when put against a decent fullback in Bundesliga as well, it's just not his game. We always knew he can be effective when given some space, plenty of examples of Sancho doing things at United as well.

Can Antony do this?
No, it's a difficult pass to make with a left foot.

It's interesting eth was reluctant to play Sancho on the right wing. I think it's easier to play for us on the right hand side, there's just more space to operate (for a few reasons- LW is usually double marked, Bruno tends to move there as well etc). I believe Eth didn't like the idea of right footed winger on the right. Although that is also a stretch because Bruno used to play RW regularly last season, so maybe it was just Ten Hag's preference to Antony above everything else.
 

saivet

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How was he for the rest of the game apart from the assist?
Probably a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. He was decent to good but it was far from anything special. Some good moments but showed a bit of rust and looked a little out of sync with his teammates on a few occasions.
 

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Probably a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. He was decent to good but it was far from anything special. Some good moments but showed a bit of rust and looked a little out of sync with his teammates on a few occasions.
Which of course isn't surprising considering he barely trained with the team. Also quite logical that he assisted the only attacker he played with before (Reus).

But what's already obvious is that he looks much happier than he ever did in Manchester, really seems to be the truth that he felt like coming home in Dortmund. Really would like to hear someday why he didn't feel that way in Manchester.
 

SteveCoppellFan

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People way over reacting to one small cameo performance.

He will no doubt revert to type pretty soon.

Kissing the Dortmund badge when it's only a loan deal is just the level his brain works at.

Good riddance, hope he never plays for us again, its types like him that have been a real problem at United for way too long now.
 

Matt Varnish

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Why is everyone, (the British media included) raving over 1 assist and fairly average performance?
He's now a demi god and his sh1t doesn't stink.

If Dortmund want a player that hates training, stays up all night like a 10yr old on an X Box then can't go to school in the morning, then fine, they can keep him.
 

stefan92

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He will no doubt revert to type pretty soon.
I don't think he ever changed. After the match Terzic said about him "he is a player who plays much better when he smiles" and I feel like there is a lot of truth about it. When he is happy, he plays well. He rarely looked that way for United, he usually did for Dortmund.
 

Baneofthegame

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I don't mind him feeling happy and showing his class there. His problem at United isn't a lack of talent, and I even hesitate to say it's work rate. It's not being right for our needs, it's not being too suited for the league, but most of all I think it's mental pressure and competing with other top players for the position rather than being confident and comfortable, knowing you are the main man and won't be benched after a bad game. Different mentalities are needed at different clubs. If we can get back 40m or so in the summer that would be good for us, and I think Dortmund would pay it as he can basically look like a world class player for them.
Looks similar to how he was here to be honest, he will probably fare a lot better in Germany.
 

Pickle85

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Which of course isn't surprising considering he barely trained with the team. Also quite logical that he assisted the only attacker he played with before (Reus).

But what's already obvious is that he looks much happier than he ever did in Manchester, really seems to be the truth that he felt like coming home in Dortmund. Really would like to hear someday why he didn't feel that way in Manchester.
It's probably because he can play bundesliga ball in his sleep, so he's fine to play FIFA until 3am every night.
 

LARulz

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Looks similar to how he was here to be honest, he will probably fare a lot better in Germany.
I agree, there was nothing in that reel that looked new. He was playing similar style here but it wasn't fitting the system. The Dortmund players are more ready for the short passes than we are here and know next steps - so it looks well oiled (relatively) to us when he plays the same
 

Borys

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I agree, there was nothing in that reel that looked new. He was playing similar style here but it wasn't fitting the system. The Dortmund players are more ready for the short passes than we are here and know next steps - so it looks well oiled (relatively) to us when he plays the same
I agree with playing similar for United but what does it mean he didn't fit the system here? What do you mean by "the system" and how does Samcho come short compared to for example Antony, or even Garnacho on the right?
Edit: or even Rashford for that matter.
 

redcucumber

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I agree with playing similar for United but what does it mean he didn't fit the system here? What do you mean by "the system" and how does Samcho come short compared to for example Antony, or even Garnacho on the right?
Garnacho is a hell of a lot more involved from the right than Sancho ever was. Antony is a bit crap, but even he would put a shift in. Sancho doesn't create and doesn't do the dirty work. The PL is too intense for him. He's a proper softie.
 

Borys

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Garnacho is a hell of a lot more involved from the right than Sancho ever was. Antony is a bit crap, but even he would put a shift in. Sancho doesn't create and doesn't do the dirty work. The PL is too intense for him. He's a proper softie.
I'm not sure about that description. Sancho was always more likely to contribute to a goal (via indirect play, assisting or scoring) than Antony. The thing is as you pointed out he was not willing to put in a shift in defensively. I understand you need to be involved on both parts of the pitch but this defensive part of the game isn't enough to call him "not a good fit for the system".
I think Garnacho on the right has been very good so far and I like what I'm seeing, but there is clear pattern that ETH is very reluctant to drop Antony in favour of right footed player and personally I think this was a mistake last season not to give Sancho a go there. Even this season, it took 20+ of dreadful performances to try Garnacho on the right.

I think there is easier explanation to the Sancho at United story and it has nothing to do with "system", if there's any system in the first place.
 

marktan

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I don't think he ever changed. After the match Terzic said about him "he is a player who plays much better when he smiles" and I feel like there is a lot of truth about it. When he is happy, he plays well. He rarely looked that way for United, he usually did for Dortmund.
Nothing to do with smiles and more to do with playing against opposition who defend with 3 players and no midfield. If that's what he faces every week he'll end up with 10 goals and 10 assist, happy or sad
 

ScarleyUtd

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I don't think he ever changed. After the match Terzic said about him "he is a player who plays much better when he smiles" and I feel like there is a lot of truth about it. When he is happy, he plays well. He rarely looked that way for United, he usually did for Dortmund.
In that case we're better off rid of him. Utd need players who can play under huge pressure – which there always is here.
 

TheReligion

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In that case we're better off rid of him. Utd need players who can play under huge pressure – which there always is here.
Yeah I’m coming around the the conclusion that it’s certainly a mentality issue with Sancho. He doesn’t appear to have the level of dedication required to be consistently at his best and at the highest level you need to have focus and top levels of self motivation.
 

Withnail

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It seems he has more time of the ball than in premiere league, hopefully there is a deal for him so we recover 30 million pound.
He will have more time on the ball in Germany but this was against the bottom team in the Bundesliga who are leaking 2.5 goals a game. He'll have more difficult games.
 

LilienFan

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Ultimately the whole Sancho situation can be traced back to the lack of a director of football and the problems it can create for the manager.

If ETH was not in charge of transfer (and let´s be honest he was/is) then Antony would not be (perceived) as his boy by the others. So the moment he continues to play him, despite a lack of production to justify his own actions as a DOF (or just to play him out of a slump), it still creates a sense of preferential treatment. This is all human nature from all parties involved (ETH, Sancho, others) and is amplified, when your manager is not a people person and some of your players are immature.

Not having a DOF creates so many problems, beyond the horrible squad mix bought together by many different managers over many years.
 

HisNameIsEarl

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I can't help but wonder, how many United forwards make that run or get that finish for the goal? It came off the right, too, how many times has Antony put in that cross?

Don't get me wrong, still think his attitude was terrible here and I mostly blame only our recruiting team and Sancho for his debacle here. But there is more to his downturn in form than just the "There is space in Bundesliga" argument. Irrespective of how well he performs for Dortmund now, he had some very obvious strengths before he joined us. Why couldn't we at least get him to show that? This is is not the first time in the last few years that our footballing structure has reduced a top talent to a shadow of himself - manager or player. We are a club set up to fail.

When you have a player who is infamous for his lack of professionalism despite his talent, and a manager who's famous for discipline despite the cost in performance, they were bound to clash. We needed someone higher up to anticipate this and mediate preemptively. Or at least in the early days (which would have been last year).

This preemptive action was worth at least 40m in transfer fee, 200k in wages, and about 5-10 points in the league table. Why could we not see the value (or cost) of resolving this quickly before things got out of hand?
I think it's the "there is no glory in prevention" thing - this preemptive action would be perceived as a loss and the resulting negativity would be attributed to the preemptive action rather than to the bad deal beforehand. So they had to wait until it became obvious to everyone.
 

Borys

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Yeah I’m coming around the the conclusion that it’s certainly a mentality issue with Sancho. He doesn’t appear to have the level of dedication required to be consistently at his best and at the highest level you need to have focus and top levels of self motivation.
Yep. There isn't much more to it. People will go on about "systems" which suit him/or don't suit him, but in the end it's all about that extra 5% that comes from your dedication (on top of the skills that he undoubtedly possesses).

It's as simple as that. In the EPL even the bottom teams will make you run for your life week in week out, and clearly that's the part of the game that Jadon does not enjoy. From what I've seen in his highlights, Bundesliga defenders seem happy just to stick the leg out while in the EPL there's a full body coming at you just behind the leg. No wonder his nutmegs have not been so effective in England.

He can still have a wonderful career in another country. BTW, does he seem particularly bothered by not playing for national team?
 

stefan92

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He can still have a wonderful career in another country. BTW, does he seem particularly bothered by not playing for national team?
When we take the premise for granted that he has to smile to play well and consider how much abuse he got after that Euro penalty miss I don't think he is even interested in playing for it at the moment.
 

Pickle85

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When we take the premise for granted that he has to smile to play well and consider how much abuse he got after that Euro penalty miss I don't think he is even interested in playing for it at the moment.
To be honest he doesn't seem interested in playing at the moment, full stop.
 

clarkydaz

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Ultimately the whole Sancho situation can be traced back to the lack of a director of football and the problems it can create for the manager.

If ETH was not in charge of transfer (and let´s be honest he was/is) then Antony would not be (perceived) as his boy by the others. So the moment he continues to play him, despite a lack of production to justify his own actions as a DOF (or just to play him out of a slump), it still creates a sense of preferential treatment. This is all human nature from all parties involved (ETH, Sancho, others) and is amplified, when your manager is not a people person and some of your players are immature.

Not having a DOF creates so many problems, beyond the horrible squad mix bought together by many different managers over many years.
We couldnt even confirm what side of the pitch we wanted/he wanted to play. Staggering incompetence
 
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Looks like he's picked up where he's left off. Running at players, dangerous passing into the other attackers, immaculate first touch... call him all you like but if he showed more of that here then he'd be starting easily. The million dollar question is why? Technically he's miles better than other PL wingers who thrive, so I don't even think it's the league. We're just a graveyard for players these days.
He mentally checked out. Its that simple
 

The Irish Connection

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That has more to do with our team setup than the Premier League. At United he was expected to beat the fullback in 1on1 or even 1vs2, this is because we are poor at moving the ball quickly and don't generate space for attackers. This is why only rapid players like Rashford or Garnacho shine on the wings.

I'm sure Sancho will struggle when put against a decent fullback in Bundesliga as well, it's just not his game. We always knew he can be effective when given some space, plenty of examples of Sancho doing things at United as well.


No, it's a difficult pass to make with a left foot.

It's interesting eth was reluctant to play Sancho on the right wing. I think it's easier to play for us on the right hand side, there's just more space to operate (for a few reasons- LW is usually double marked, Bruno tends to move there as well etc). I believe Eth didn't like the idea of right footed winger on the right. Although that is also a stretch because Bruno used to play RW regularly last season, so maybe it was just Ten Hag's preference to Antony above everything else.
No sorry, I disagree. He’s just an average winger who can do well in a less intense league. Yes, Dortmund are probably more suited to him but he often had off the ball runners around him with us only to misplace passes.
And obviously his attitude is shite.
 

Reapersoul20

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He actually kissed the badge on a loan deal ? :lol: What an absolute tosser

He looks leaner in the video. Hopefully he keeps it up long enough to get some kind of fee for him
 

stefan92

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He actually kissed the badge on a loan deal ? :lol: What an absolute tosser
He also talked about coming home, happy to play together with old friends etc. Clearly this is more than the typical "half year to get some playing time" for him.