[bosnian_red]

That is bang average. Fine for some inexperienced young kid, but not good enough for a player you paid top money for and are paying huge wages. He has been here for two seasons, if he can't show improvement this season then he will likely be sold.

Also, the bigger issue has always been his lack of physicality, he still shows that hesitation when trying to put challenges or closing players down. I doubt that will be changing and if he was putting Dortmund numbers, it could be accepted, but he is not doing that either.

It's not really the best idea to always judge a player based on what you paid for them. You judge them based on what they can provide relative to the others we have.

I don't think he'll be more than a squad player here, but it's fair to judge him equally to everyone else. In this half of football alone he started a few good breaks and laid 2 chances on a plate for Antony and Mount. Can't exactly criticize Sancho for those guys botching the chances?

 

[OleGunnar20]

He looked decent last preseason too if I remember rightly. It's a mentality thing with him clearly, he can't seem to hack the pressure when it comes down to it.

Hopefully that just clicks for him soon as we all saw what he could do at Dortmund. Frustrating player.

 

[Bebestation]

Its not mentality, its the difference between the bundesliga back line vs the PL's.

This is why Ten hag is playing him as a false 9 because he always needed space to be creative.

 

[Ace of Spades]

It's not really the best idea to always judge a player based on what you paid for them. You judge them based on what they can provide relative to the others we have.

I don't think he'll be more than a squad player here, but it's fair to judge him equally to everyone else. In this half of football alone he started a few good breaks and laid 2 chances on a plate for Antony and Mount. Can't exactly criticize Sancho for those guys botching the chances?

Then what do we judge them on ?? You pay big money either for potential, immediate results, or both. So, far with Sancho we are hoping on his potential, which may never be fulfilled, but the reason we paid that much was because we expected him to contribute fairly quickly.

Big money transfer will be judged on their price tag, rightly or wrongly. It happened with Maguire, Antony, and every one else who was bought for big money. Not just for us, it happens to all teams.

 

[bosnian_red]

Then what do we judge them on ?? You pay big money either for potential, immediate results, or both. So, far with Sancho we are hoping on his potential, which may never be fulfilled, but the reason we paid that much was because we expected him to contribute fairly quickly.

Big money transfer will be judged on their price tag, rightly or wrongly. It happened with Maguire, Antony, and every one else who was bought for big money. Not just for us, it happens to all teams.

We judge them based on what they provide for us and what they can provide for us. There's no use in being annoyed with a 100m transfer if he's still an important part of the team but not performing like a 100m player (Grealish at City).

Sancho obviously hasn't done well so far, I'm not saying otherwise. But it's a new season and might as well give everyone a clean slate and judge each performance to the same standard as any other player who is starting that game. Bringing up his fee or what he did last season in terms of how he played yesterday is irrelevant. Just look at his performance and nothing else. If he can play well and have a good impact every game, I couldn't give a feck about how much his fee was or what he did last season. It's about today, and the future games. Not previous seasons.

The same applies for Antony. He was a useful player for us. Yes we need to be better with how much we spend on players, but he had a good impact despite being inconsistent. If he becomes an important player, will it matter if he's an 80m player? Not really.

Maguire wasn't judged and criticized (by reasonable people) because of his fee. It's because he started playing like shit and making mistake after mistake and wasn't worthy of a spot in the team.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

[QUOTE="bosnian_red, post:

Thought I was going crazy and misremembering the match as during it I thought he looked sharp. Definitely wasn't wrong. People are weird. He held it up well, showed quick feet, played good passes... Twice he over complicated it but aside from that I thought he did well and this video of his touches definitely supports that.
[/QUOTE]
I didn't see the game but his contribution looked ok from the video. I think a lot of people on here have made their mind up unfortunately. Because he doesn't have electric pace, they don't rate him (similar to Antony). Seems like most posters prefer Saint Maximin, Traore, Zaha type wingers. He was quality for Dortmund. There is a player there.

 

[crossy1686]

I didn't see the game but his contribution looked ok from the video. I think a lot of people on here have made their mind up unfortunately. Because he doesn't have electric pace, they don't rate him (similar to Antony). Seems like most posters prefer Saint Maximin, Traore, Zaha type wingers. He was quality for Dortmund. There is a player there.

Yes, it’s common than players who are good look good in a slower league where defending is an afterthought. He’d be better off going back there if he wants to look like ‘a player’ because he isn’t cut out for the PL at this level.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

We judge them based on what they provide for us and what they can provide for us. There's no use in being annoyed with a 100m transfer if he's still an important part of the team but not performing like a 100m player (Grealish at City).

Sancho obviously hasn't done well so far, I'm not saying otherwise. But it's a new season and might as well give everyone a clean slate and judge each performance to the same standard as any other player who is starting that game. Bringing up his fee or what he did last season in terms of how he played yesterday is irrelevant. Just look at his performance and nothing else. If he can play well and have a good impact every game, I couldn't give a feck about how much his fee was or what he did last season. It's about today, and the future games. Not previous seasons.

The same applies for Antony. He was a useful player for us. Yes we need to be better with how much we spend on players, but he had a good impact despite being inconsistent. If he becomes an important player, will it matter if he's an 80m player? Not really.

Maguire wasn't judged and criticized (by reasonable people) because of his fee. It's because he started playing like shit and making mistake after mistake and wasn't worthy of a spot in the team.

At what point do players stop getting clean slates though? The "clean slate" mentality is a big part of the reason guys like Martial are still on our books. (Granted, wages and injury record also play a role in this)

 

[Brightonian]

I didn't see the game but his contribution looked ok from the video. I think a lot of people on here have made their mind up unfortunately. Because he doesn't have electric pace, they don't rate him (similar to Antony). Seems like most posters prefer Saint Maximin, Traore, Zaha type wingers. He was quality for Dortmund. There is a player there.

Yep. Caftards are just generally a bit hysterical. And our own players are never held in lower regard here than during transfer season when everyone's balls deep in highlight videos of the shinier toys everywhere else.

Sancho has underperformed based on expectations, but not disastrously. He's clearly been held back by some mental stuff which he appeared to work through last season. No reasonable manager is giving up on him just yet. He's still got all the same raw materials he had at Dortmund.

Antony has had a classic 'settling in' season in which he showed lots of promising capacity, and superb attitude, without the confidence or end product clicking.

 

[bosnian_red]

At what point do players stop getting clean slates though? The "clean slate" mentality is a big part of the reason guys like Martial are still on our books. (Granted, wages and injury record also play a role in this)

You make your mind up if a player will stay or be sold at the start/end of a season. When it's clear about their status, what's the point about banging on about previous times? Sancho isn't going anywhere this summer. So we should focus on what he does bring when he plays and what his performance is actually like. Not "well we paid 75m and he's been shit so I expect a hat trick every game to make up for it, and a 7/10 performance isn't acceptable". That's just dumb.

Then at the end of the season, make a review on his role and if he's worth a spot compared to his competition. With Sancho, yeah ideally we'd undo the transfer, get all the money back and roll with Rashford/Garnacho on the left and Antony/Amad on the right (or even undo Antony and find someone cheaper). But they're both here, so as they are here, might as well make the most out of it and judge them based on how they play, each game individually, not prefacing a performance rating by saying "last year sucked so I expect more to make up for it".

 

[Abraxas]

Yep. Caftards are just generally a bit hysterical. And our own players are never held in lower regard here than during transfer season when everyone's balls deep in highlight videos of the shinier toys everywhere else.

Sancho has underperformed based on expectations, but not disastrously. He's clearly been held back by some mental stuff which he appeared to work through last season. No reasonable manager is giving up on him just yet. He's still got all the same raw materials he had at Dortmund.

Antony has had a classic 'settling in' season in which he showed lots of promising capacity, and superb attitude, without the confidence or end product clicking.

I'd say he has underperformed diastrously. I think we can use whatever adjective we want to describe it if not "disastrous" but it's hard to sugarcoat what has been a complete underperformance both on what he produced for Dortmund, and what would be expected of a Manchester United first team forward. It's not even about fees, it is about non performance.

He has barely strung together a run of convincing performances I can think of. I'd go as far as to say he has struggled to put forward individual 90 minute performances nevermind consistent overall form, primarily because he has seemed to lack fitness and physicality.

It has been pretty damn bad with very little mitigation I can identify except to say he obviously has a few things going on. Which is good as a point of understanding how we can help him, which we have been trying to do to unlock more from him, but it does very little to say he's going to make it unless he can show more indication he is actually responding to our help and then is good enough as a player to take things forward.

Big season coming up, I reckon. It will start to reach a point where the financial damage has been done to the extent that selling him at a huge loss wouldn't be quite as unpalatable for the club hierarchy as it is currently, particularly in terms of FFP.

 

[crossy1686]

At what point do players stop getting clean slates though? The "clean slate" mentality is a big part of the reason guys like Martial are still on our books. (Granted, wages and injury record also play a role in this)

People don’t want to face the reality of the situation so they find reasons to kick the can down the road in hope a decision is made by someone else, like Sancho gets bored of not playing and requests to leave or winds his contract down and walks.

We’ve all seen enough at this point to know he’s doesn’t have ‘it’ in the same way Garnacho and Rashford have ‘it’. You can look and compare stats, you can talk about potential, you can talk about Dortmund, none of it matters unless he’s delivering today, and he isn’t. He doesn’t pass any form of eye test for a forward player.

You can’t keep giving shite players a free pass to continue being shite. You’re holding the entire team back and letting them all know it’s okay to come here and not try.

 

[santeria13]

I think it's pretty telling that in two years of performances, we can't even find one where we can say he was fantastic throughout the 90 minutes. Then, his good/decent games can be counted on one hand. I seriously can't comprehend another club with aspirations to be the best team in the league keeping the player after two years of that. At that point, any 'ceiling' or 'potential' is completely irrelevant.

Then there's stuff you see like this. What the feck is he doing? I know it's just press ups but it's just representative of his whole personality, IMO. I did better press ups when I was 12

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Vabelico]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we sell Sancho in this transfer window. this club must hold to the highest standards and what does Jadon stand for? I can't look at him and his game, attitude on the pitch or commitment

 

[Bondi77]

I think it's pretty telling that in two years of performances, we can't even find one where we can say he was fantastic throughout the 90 minutes. Then, his good/decent games can be counted on one hand. I seriously can't comprehend another club with aspirations to be the best team in the league keeping the player after two years of that. At that point, any 'ceiling' or 'potential' is completely irrelevant.

Then there's stuff you see like this. What the feck is he doing? I know it's just press ups but it's just representative of his whole personality, IMO. I did better press ups when I was 12

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I see he is half hearted in press ups as well.

 

[Brightonian]

I'd say he has underperformed diastrously. I think we can use whatever adjective we want to describe it if not "disastrous" but it's hard to sugarcoat what has been a complete underperformance both on what he produced for Dortmund, and what would be expected of a Manchester United first team forward. It's not even about fees, it is about non performance.

He has barely strung together a run of convincing performances I can think of. I'd go as far as to say he has struggled to put forward individual 90 minute performances nevermind consistent overall form, primarily because he has seemed to lack fitness and physicality.

It has been pretty damn bad with very little mitigation I can identify except to say he obviously has a few things going on. Which is good as a point of understanding how we can help him, which we have been trying to do to unlock more from him, but it does very little to say he's going to make it unless he can show more indication he is actually responding to our help and then is good enough as a player to take things forward.

Big season coming up, I reckon. It will start to reach a point where the financial damage has been done to the extent that selling him at a huge loss wouldn't be quite as unpalatable for the club hierarchy as it is currently, particularly in terms of FFP.

I think we have to agree to disagree on the subjective point of how well/badly he's been playing. I just don't see that he's been as bad as you say.

But I guess we agree about the practical situation now, which is that this season is effectively his last chance to show the level we expect from him. I always think any young player should get one season to settle in if that's what it takes. Two is disappointing and you have to question either player or club or both about why it's not working. Third season is a reasonable time to say 'now or never' and, if things don't improve, consider offloading in the summer.

 

[Abraxas]

I think we have to agree to disagree on the subjective point of how well/badly he's been playing. I just don't see that he's been as bad as you say.

But I guess we agree about the practical situation now, which is that this season is effectively his last chance to show the level we expect from him. I always think any young player should get one season to settle in if that's what it takes. Two is disappointing and you have to question either player or club or both about why it's not working. Third season is a reasonable time to say 'now or never' and, if things don't improve, consider offloading in the summer.

What is it you're seeing that's especially good? I'm curious as to what you've picked out of the bones of this thing. It's subjective, yes, but the spade is still a spade. At some point the description is semantics, good is not good enough and he hasn't been good regardless of what the descriptor is.

The attacking output isn't good enough and surely you agree on that. He's not the only one, Antony needs to improve too. If we're also not getting a physical output of a player that lasts 90 mins regularly and can be relied upon for sheer work rate then what are we actually left with? I see a player not really measuring up on anything except looking technically competent but that's actually a far more subjective thing than simply looking at what he produces in goal contributions and 90 minute intensity.

Worse than that I'd say it's more in the realms of aesthetic virtue than practical application because he's peripheral so we don't see it much. I think the worrying thing is it may be his underlying quality that's truly within the realms of subjectivity more than whether he has been good for us.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Could this be the season? Does look so much faster.

 

[bosnian_red]

I've got another year in me, let's go kid

Looks very at home as a false 9 today and did decently in the first couple of games

 

[Blood Mage]

So much better on the right than on the left. Still not sure he offers more than Amad though.

 

[Castia]

Seems to have found a yard of pace and looks very good

Starting the season with a bit of confidence could be huge for Sancho

 

[roonster09]

That was great burst of pace, didn't expect that kind of pace from him.

Did well playing as CF too in few moments.

 

[Andersonson]

Great goal, some terrible passes, but well taken goal and he looks rapid at times!

 

[Blood Mage]

Is it possible for a player to randomly become quicker at Sancho's age or has he just finally reached full fitness after two years of being here?

 

[phonics_tid]

Definitely looking like he’s found an extra yard of pace, was rapid on a couple of runs in that half.

 

[-Supreme-]

Looked strong and held the ball well, nice turn of pace too.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Is it possible for a player to randomly become quicker at Sancho's age or has he just finally reached full fitness after two years of being here?

I'd say he's always got that pace but what you said isn't wrong either. I think mid twenties is when a player's pace peaks.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Looks like a different player. So sharp and quick over 10 yards. Really good pre season so far, and a fantastic goal tonight.

 

[VP89]

Hes looking more up for it, which is very positive.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Looked class in pre season last year too. Needs to show up when it matters.

 

[AJ VII]

He looks fitter and stronger than I can remember from the past.

Maybe EtH have made him understand he needs to give it a 100% everyday if he wants to make it in the PL.

If he have the same development Shaw have had the last couple of years, we will have a great versatile player who can cover 3 or 4 positions for us. If not, Amad would be happy to take his place.

 

[Woziak]

On this form all be it early doors, don’t even consider selling Jadon, but we need to see a season of this please !

 

[bosnian_red]

Didn't see false 9 Sancho being a thing this season but given that we'll only probably sign Hojlund who will be rotated in, seems like it'll be a decent option to leave Rashford and garnacho on the left.

 

[Jeppers7]

He’s absolutely quality, hopefully he can go on and fulfill his talent with us despite those that hope he doesn’t.

 

[NZT-One]

Very suprising to read so much praise but obviously fair enough. Thought he was quite invisible. Apart from his burst and this great finish - that certainly was fantastic. Don't think the false 9 role suits him though. Don't think he'll do well as this role is quite physical as well.

 

[Cascarino]

Looked class in pre season last year too. Needs to show up when it matters.

The lack of intensity in preseason works to his benefit as it negates some of his main weaknesses. I thought he was going to be much improved last season as I’d heard he’d had a good preseason and was working under a manager like ETH.

Having said that the time he spent in the Netherlands last season doing the tailored individual training might end up paying dividends. He’s had more time to understand ETH’s football, he’s probably in a better place in terms of mentality and confidence now, and I think the makeup of the team in both players and style suits him more now than it ever has while he’s been at United.

 

[Dominos]

Could this be the season? Does look so much faster.

He looked amazing in pre-season last year too.

Our season is very much depending on a couple of Sancho, Garnacho, Amad, Antony stepping it up a level and delivering a very good season. At their current level, we have a very bunch of underwhelming attackers/wide players.

 

[crossy1686]

Much better today but he has to carry this into the season otherwise there's no point. We don't need players that only look good in friendlies.

 

[edgecutter]

Always looks good when the opposition don't seem to give a shite. Let's see what happens when the season starts

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

He played better in the previous game. People are praising this performance only because he scored