Jadon Sancho Borussia Dortmund loan watch (Has ended ten Hag)

[RORY65]

If you believe that Fergie would’ve let a player get away with calling him a liar publicly then you know very little about the manager he was.

He might have done it if the player was really integral and he felt he needed them to succeed, Ferguson's greatest attribute is that he was a pragmatist (Ten Hag is much more dogmatic) who was able to adapt to what his team and individual players needed to perform. The point is he wouldn't do it for a player who doesn't apply himself and whose contribution is so minimal, a player as limited as Sancho would never have been offered such huge wages to join in the first place back then and by now would be either gone or struggling to make the bench.

 

[Pscholes18]

Imagine defending such lazy cnut as Sancho just to use it as extra ammo against Ten Hag.

This

 

[Tyrion]

Didn't have a problem except the shite performances on the pitch

Exactly. That's what messes with the "ten Hag was the problem" argument. Sancho didn't play well for Ole or Ragnick. Or Southgate for that matter.

 

[Gazautd18]

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If we pull this off I may start to have some faith in this club again.

 

[FujiVice]

Its apparently all coming from the Saudi end and United arent planning on shipping them out. But to me its a no brainer getting 100 million back from those two. Literally cleaning up the mess of the previous regime with a deal like that. With Martial, Greenwood, Casemiro and Varane moving on, we'll have a lot to play with in terms of FFP

 

[Zehner]

Its apparently all coming from the Saudi end and United arent planning on shipping them out. But to me its a no brainer getting 100 million back from those two. Literally cleaning up the mess of the previous regime with a deal like that. With Martial, Greenwood, Casemiro and Varane moving on, we'll have a lot to play with in terms of FFP

Hasn't Sancho's camp already ruled out a Saudi move? I can't imagine Antony would be willing to move their either at this point ofnhis career. Sounds like a waste of resources to me.

 

[antohan]

Imagine defending such lazy cnut as Sancho just to use it as extra ammo against Ten Hag.

Agree. Expecting discipline is arguably just about the only thing ETH has going for him at this stage.

 

[RVN1991]

Imagine defending such lazy cnut as Sancho just to use it as extra ammo against Ten Hag.

It would have at least made some sense if he had only been shite playing for ETH but he's been terrible throughout his entire time at the club and two other different managers.

Some people will always defend the indefensible.

 

[Gazautd18]

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It's the hope that kills you....

 

[Ish]

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It's the hope that kills you....

 

[horsechoker]

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It's the hope that kills you....

Virtually nobody will be interested unless the fee and wages are significantly lower. I expect us to be sending him out on loan with part of his wages paid for.

 

[golden_blunder]

But he didn't do it suddenly. This happened before.

Let's go back to November 2019. Dortmund lost 0-4 to Bayern (as usual). Starting in this match: Jadon Sancho. How did he play? So bad, that Favre took him off after 36 minutes! After the match Favre ranted about how terrible Sancho played. This was followed by a social media post by Sancho about feeling humiliated and scapegoated. So far so similar, or on Favre's behalf even more aggressive than what EtH initially said.

For the next match Favre benched him, explaining before the match that he only wants to start players who are "focused and ready". I think this is roughly comparable (benching a starter or removing a bench player from the bench) as a measure.

The difference is that Dortmund never closed the door for Sancho but gave him the opportunity to prove himself (he was subbed on in that match and actually scored a goal against Barcelona, it was a short but strong performance from him).

Was Dortmund too soft on him? I understand if someone thinks so. But Favre didn't double down on demanding a public apology - he made a public statement, he got a public response, and he just doubled down on wanting Sancho to focus on the actual match and not on whatever else is happening. And he got the response from Sancho he wanted to see.

EtH wanted a dick measurement contest. Favre just told him to get on with it and stop whining.

Considering that we are in the United forum here... I am quite sure that SAF would have choosen the latter option because he knew how to deal with people

No player bigger than the club. Fergie would have kicked him out the door too, perhaps faster than ETH

Sancho is repeating patterns of bad self governance. He needs to take responsibility for his career before it’s over

 

[ThierryHenry14]

It is better for both parties to separate. Now it is just whether MU will pay the difference in salary of his remaining contract, otherwise BVB will probably just keep loaning him until his contract expires.

 

[Withnail]

They'd be mad to go over there to career wasteland at their ages. Why would anyone believe that story?

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Its apparently all coming from the Saudi end and United arent planning on shipping them out. But to me its a no brainer getting 100 million back from those two. Literally cleaning up the mess of the previous regime with a deal like that. With Martial, Greenwood, Casemiro and Varane moving on, we'll have a lot to play with in terms of FFP

Greenwood didn’t cost anything. What’s he got to do with FFP?

 

[Posh Red]

Greenwood didn’t cost anything. What’s he got to do with FFP?

That makes him very valuable from an FFP perspective

 

[jeff gurr]

They'd be mad to go over there to career wasteland at their ages. Why would anyone believe that story?

I think Sancho has already said he has no interest in Saudi .

 

[Hammondo]

No player bigger than the club. Fergie would have kicked him out the door too, perhaps faster than ETH

Sancho is repeating patterns of bad self governance. He needs to take responsibility for his career before it’s over

Aside from Rooney.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Aside from Rooney.

He teed it up nicely for to jettison Rooney in fairness. The important thing for Fergie there wasn’t Rooney, it was ensuring he absolutely did not go to City and to get his future back under the control of the club.

Moyes fecked it though.

 

[Hammondo]

He teed it up nicely for to jettison Rooney in fairness. The important thing for Fergie there wasn’t Rooney, it was ensuring he absolutely did not go to City and to get his future back under the control of the club.

Moyes fecked it though.

So he was bigger in the end.

 

[Grande]

Greenwood didn’t cost anything. What’s he got to do with FFP?

A player we buy, say Antony for 100m, gets the buying sum spread over the length of the contract, say, five years. If we sell him for 70 m two years later, we still owe 60 m on the deal, meaning we only go 10 m ahead in terms of FFP. Greenwood is all ours, we owe nothing on him, if we sell him for 50m, its a 50 m plus in the FFP reckoning. Ish.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

So he was bigger in the end.

No, the situation of absolutely not allowing City to get one over United/Fergie was bigger.

 

[Mockney]

And I think it is an antiquated view that he should just swallow his pride and prioritize his own interests below those of the club. He owes you nothing. If a club doesn't treat you well, feck that club.

He’s a footballer who earns £200k*+ a week for the club we’re fans of and pay to watch. He absolutely does owe us.

He’s not being ground down by the cruel heel of capitalism or abused by his employers FFS.

This ‘German fans 4 Sancho’ crusade is weird man. He’s been crap for 3 years (and for England) and thrown a strop over some harsh but tame words. He’s not fecking Bobby Sands

 

[kaku06]

You have no idea what happened and why Sancho was so worked up. You simply assume the most favourable background for Ten Hag and the least favorable for Sancho. For what its worth, maybe Sancho didn't even agree with his "sabbatical" in the Netherlands last season and decided not to swallow his pride again. Maybe he felt unfairly treated because of favoritism on Ten Hag's side. There are thousands of theories that would justify his reaction, it is just that people when fantasizing decide to not assume those and instead antagonize Sancho.

And I think it is an antiquated view that he should just swallow his pride and prioritize his own interests below those of the club. He owes you nothing. If a club doesn't treat you well, feck that club.

You have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to united. What did united do to hurt you or your club? Or is it you just being an Uber member of BDL?

 

[stefan92]

You have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to united. What did united do to hurt you or your club? Or is it you just being an Uber member of BDL?

He is just a purist who loves technical players no matter what other flaws they have. He would likely defend Sancho the same if he played in France or Spain instead of Dortmund now and before his move to United.

 

[backpass]

I think he just didnt fit the profile, together with beeing hyped like hell and really thinking he would come here and run the show this was a disaster waiting to happen. He just doesnt fit the speedy winger type, its more like tikitaka where he would have excelled. I strongly belive that players like Mahrez or Bernardo Silva would have been a failure at United as well.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

That makes him very valuable from an FFP perspective

A player we buy, say Antony for 100m, gets the buying sum spread over the length of the contract, say, five years. If we sell him for 70 m two years later, we still owe 60 m on the deal, meaning we only go 10 m ahead in terms of FFP. Greenwood is all ours, we owe nothing on him, if we sell him for 50m, its a 50 m plus in the FFP reckoning. Ish.

Thank you, makes sense.
I just didn't see him being sold for much of a fee.

 

[Blood Mage]

Everyone already knew, give this lad time and space on the ball and he's a maestro. You don't get time and space in the Premier League, it demands athleticism and sharper, more urgent decision making.

The bundesliga is pretty tragic, only three or four teams even bother to press as opposed to every single team in the PL.

 

[berbatrick]

That's because our attacking is 1 dimensional, we have pace or we have nothing.

When we get players like him he has little to work with so is never going to be successful.

I totally agree with what you're saying about a historic problem at the club trying to integrate these types of players...
but Sancho has shown NOTHING. He doesn't have pace or quick feet, ok, we know he's not that type of wide player. But Martial and Rasford, for example, did some nice pass exchanges last season. Bruno and Rashford both have good off the ball movement.. Sancho couldn't play his short passes with any of them, ever. Not one memorable interchange. Never fed the overlapping or underlapping fullback. Nothing at all.
The only talent he ever showed was composure before a few finishes. Literally nothing else. Kagawa and Mkhi did better despite having much less hype and haveing the same issues with team mates and style of play.

 

[redcucumber]

The bitch is back

 

[Rooney in Paris]

He’s a footballer who earns £200k*+ a week for the club we’re fans of and pay to watch. He absolutely does owe us.

He’s not being ground down by the cruel heel of capitalism or abused by his employers FFS.

This ‘German fans 4 Sancho’ crusade is weird man. He’s been crap for 3 years (and for England) and thrown a strop over some harsh but tame words. He’s not fecking Bobby Sands

You have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to united. What did united do to hurt you or your club? Or is it you just being an Uber member of BDL?

He is just a purist who loves technical players no matter what other flaws they have. He would likely defend Sancho the same if he played in France or Spain instead of Dortmund now and before his move to United.

To an extent. He also loves just criticizing Utd in general, and signed up on an internet board to do that.

 

[Varun]

He’s a footballer who earns £200k*+ a week for the club we’re fans of and pay to watch. He absolutely does owe us.

He’s not being ground down by the cruel heel of capitalism or abused by his employers FFS.

This ‘German fans 4 Sancho’ crusade is weird man. He’s been crap for 3 years (and for England) and thrown a strop over some harsh but tame words. He’s not fecking Bobby Sands

who's he fecking then

 

[spiriticon]

Good stuff Jadon, do well and raise that transfer price for Dortmund. I'd love to see it. Lets try and get at least 50 million back this summer.

 

[Zehner]

You have a chip on your shoulder when it comes to united. What did united do to hurt you or your club? Or is it you just being an Uber member of BDL?

I generally don't like tribalism regardless which club and believe 99% of opinions in this thread are based on loyalties instead of critical thinking and building one's own opinion. I don't care which club you support but if you're just a sheep who mindlessly adapts every opinion he thinks he should have as a good United supporter, you annoy me

He is just a purist who loves technical players no matter what other flaws they have. He would likely defend Sancho the same if he played in France or Spain instead of Dortmund now and before his move to United.

Actually, I do care about their flaws and think Sancho didn't react very maturely. Moreover, I think he has terrible career planning. But it is not as if that needs anymore pointing out in this thread

 

[Tom Cato]

A player we buy, say Antony for 100m, gets the buying sum spread over the length of the contract, say, five years. If we sell him for 70 m two years later, we still owe 60 m on the deal, meaning we only go 10 m ahead in terms of FFP. Greenwood is all ours, we owe nothing on him, if we sell him for 50m, its a 50 m plus in the FFP reckoning. Ish.

That example is a 20m hit on the FFP annually, if you recoup 60m after year 2 in a single payment you are 40million ahead in that fiscal year.

Unless I misunderstood your example and what you meant. FFP only cares about the annual debth, not the long term debt. Which is why Chelsea have been able to spend like drunk oil sheikhs.

 

[Grande]

That example is a 20m hit on the FFP annually, if you recoup 60m after year 2 in a single payment you are 40million ahead in that fiscal year.

Unless I misunderstood your example and what you meant. FFP only cares about the annual debth, not the long term debt. Which is why Chelsea have been able to spend like drunk oil sheikhs.

Isn’t it a three season span, and amortization factored into it?

 

[raind]

A player we buy, say Antony for 100m, gets the buying sum spread over the length of the contract, say, five years. If we sell him for 70 m two years later, we still owe 60 m on the deal, meaning we only go 10 m ahead in terms of FFP. Greenwood is all ours, we owe nothing on him, if we sell him for 50m, its a 50 m plus in the FFP reckoning. Ish.

My understanding is the 50m you get could be leveraged up to 250m if spread over a 5 year contract. Which is what Chelsea have done, sell Mount and use it to buy everyone. It's an unintended consequence of FFP and needs to be looked at. Clubs are now incentivised to get rid of homegrown talent. Selling a top local prospect could allow you to fill a few gaps in the squad. And lose part of your soul

 

[Grande]

I generally don't like tribalism regardless which club and believe 99% of opinions in this thread are based on loyalties instead of critical thinking and building one's own opinion. I don't care which club you support but if you're just a sheep who mindlessly adapts every opinion he thinks he should have as a good United supporter, you annoy me



Actually, I do care about their flaws and think Sancho didn't react very maturely. Moreover, I think he has terrible career planning. But it is not as if that needs anymore pointing out in this thread

I like tribes, but tribal tatoos bore me. And isms. As a United fan, I’m always going to chose the club ahead of individuals in a slugfest. This here is not the question, though. If Sancho went to war against Man Utd, it would just be a question of getting rid regardless of right or wrong. But here we have two members of the club in conflict, both part of United. So my incentive is rather to inblinkeredly see who most likely has a point, and who most forwards the club’s interest. The upshot of being a fan is that you get to watch what happens alot more than neutrals, and having followed Sancho at United (and a bit before) for a couple of seasons and Ten Hag at United (and a bit before), it is just an overwhelming bag of small details, large details and hunches over time that points towards a) Sancho having serious issues with acting in the club’s best interest, whereas Ten Hag’s challenge seems partly how to deal with quite a few players who have issues acting in the club’s best interest. Ronaldo situation was brilliantly solved IMO, Maguire has improved after being benched, Varane my jury’s out, but Sancho everything just points to that he is the sole owner of his own problems.

 

[TheReligion]

It is the coach who insistd on an apology after criticizing him publicly first. If he felt that he had to display his power that much ("I can criticize you publicly, but you are not allowed to criticize me publicly"), he could have just suspended him for a month (already a draconic sanction you rarely see at all) and be done with it but instead he insists on Sancho swallowing his pride and making an apology he doesn't mean.

You guys crave for a strong man who strongarms the players who you perceive as spoilt little brats so much that you let him get away with anything, even absolutely terrible leadership.

You don’t have a clue.

 

[hobbers]

No club on the planet is giving us £30m for Sancho or Antony let alone £50m.