Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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El-Manos

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Doesn't mean we need to blow all 120M on a single player. We have other areas that also need players and backup players.
I think this is essentially the problem. We could spend all that but that would limit our spending elsewhere on other targets. We’d be forced to go for option B rather than option A
 

7even

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There is a lot of assumptions floating around about who’s in charge of Borussia Dortmund’s decisions making regarding players transfers. Michael Zork is only a puppet if this wasn’t obvious. Even German supporters seems to ignore how a club of the size of Borussia Dortmund works in reality.

Below information is from Aktie.bvb.de/English

According to their annual reports CEO Hans Joachim Watzke has total responsibility against his board to maximize sport related and financial success. He is acting on behalf of BD shareholders and their supervising board. Every significant financial decision needs approval from the Supervising board.

Responsible for finances and organization is Thomas Tress. He’s a tax advisor, auditor and a business graduate.

Responsible for Sales and Marketing is Carsten Cramer.

These three will advise the Supervising Board who makes the final decision regarding such a huge transaction. I assume that Thomas Tress has the final decision regarding the payment structure.

The Board and CEO Hans Joachim Watzke will probably ask a couple of questions to Michael Zorc and his team before they make a framework how and when to sell Jadon Sancho.

My experience is that something similar to below questions should give them necessary information in order to take a sensible decision.

1. Will the sale of Jadon Sancho jeopardize BD CL qualification in the upcoming season?
2. Do we need a replacement player in that position and how much will it cost?
3. Is their any other implications of letting one of our best players being sold?
4. Without COVID what’s a reasonable value of Sancho?

Intangibles we don’t know about is how much “pride“ will affect their decision making. FC Bayern seems to know how to “upset” their neighbors. Do they have a complex of being a “selling club”? United is a English club, will such a detail affect their decision.

One thing I’m certain about is that all involved, probably except Michale Zorc, is extremely aware of the implications with COVID and how it can affect the future. The owners and the Board of Borussia Dortmund seems to deeply care for their club. From what I can understand they have a respectable responsibility to the local society and their supporters. (Great owners so to speak)

If the right offer is there then the payment structure is probably the only hurdle to overcome. In the end money talks more the words.
 

El-Manos

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I think this is essentially the problem. We could spend all that but that would limit our spending elsewhere on other targets. We’d be forced to go for option B rather than option A. Dortmund know Sancho is our primary target, Simon stone has confirmed this. Eventually we’ll probably meet their asking price.
 

Swarm

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Well , i didnt follow the Dembele saga much, but with both Maguire and Bruno it was very similar that they said he wouldnt be sold.

My point about United briefs is that if Dortmund (and Sancho) really said to us in private that Sancho wont be sold nomatter what, United would just say so via their briefing journalists. Happened with Dybala, Haaland and Bruno in the summer. They wouldnt just pretend like nothing if there werent any chance of it going through. Even Fabrizio and Falk isnt saying its 100% off.

Well, the Dortmund fans seem to believe Sancho is staying and that the club is looking at Depay still... It has happened alot of times that an replacement has been bought and then suddenly a sale goes through.

Im not trying to sound like an entitled United fan, its just that the pattern is so very very similar to our other big signings.
Where are you getting that from? Have not seen a single Dortmund fan expecting this to happen. Dortmund sure as hell can't afford to sign Depay with Sancho staying and it would not make sense squadwise either. Maybe they looked at him as a potential Sancho replacement but I have actually never seen them seriously linked with Depay.

Regarding your entitlement claims, it's all good. I get most of the muppetry and am just trying to give a perspective from someone who is closer to Dortmund and maybe able to clear up some (sometimes aggressive) misconceptions.
 

theklr

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It's odd that we don't have the money though isn't it? Are we really expending a transfer spend of less than 120 million this summer? Possible we don't have that sort of money to go upfront on a single player.
We have the money, we just want the installments abit higher or pushed further in a timeframe. Possibly have some add-ons too.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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Sure, but you still cannot use your buyers' remorse of the past as a means to get a discount on a current player
Absolutely you can if you've made a purchase from that seller before.

2ndTouch, I've bought these tomatoes from you twice before and I don't think they're as good as you claim them to be, therefore I'm offering you $2 a kilo rather than the $2.75 you want. It's up to the seller to decide if they want to take that offer but it's reasonable to make such an offer as a buyer.
 

VP89

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Does he have to ? Not sure how it works but surely each player doesn't have to.
Well I wouldn't read into it too much either way. It was a generic interview from a player who is expected to stay professional.

I think we'd either expect his people to turn the screw or us to pay the required amount.

If it's truly over, you'd know it. Manchester United have recently started briefing all outlets when its over. We did it with Griezmann, De Ligt and Haaland all at varying stages. The only word from the United standpoint is that we haven't been deterred by Zorc's press conference and he remains a key target. This tells me the deal is very much on and this is all too familiar posturing from Zorc (which he's done in the past with other players right before they leave).

If Sancho was set to stay I think his interview would have been a lot more black and white than it just was.
 

MattofManchester

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Please, oh please, Ed. Just pay for him.

If anything, I just want to stop seeing and hearing people mentioning Traore, Zaha and Brooks(who hasn't looked at all good since coming back) as good alternatives.
 

theklr

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Where are you getting that from? Have not seen a single Dortmund fan expecting this to happen. Dortmund sure as hell can't afford to sign Depay with Sancho staying and it would not make sense squadwise either. Maybe they looked at him as a potential Sancho replacement but I have actually never seen them seriously linked with Depay.

Regarding your entitlement claims, it's all good. I get most of the muppetry and am just trying to give a perspective from someone who is closer to Dortmund and maybe able to clear up some (sometimes aggressive) misconceptions.
Saw it in the r/borussiadortmund transfer thread. I could have misunderstood it though:)
 

lewwoo

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This is over. We missed the chance to sign possibly Englands best player for the next 10 years. In a few years that 120 mill will look like a bargain.
 

saivet

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Doesn't sound like he's forcing a move yet.
Sky Sports using the headline of "Sancho: I'm really happy at Dortmund"

I think he may well force a move but it won't be in a crazy way like Dembele to Barca or Mihki to us
 
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This is exactly what I am thinking. Why would a club come out so hard enforcing the point he is staying for them to sell him in less than 2 months?

If you look at this deal without having a Manutd hat one, it looks like the deal is off. I know alot of Manutd fans will reference the Auby and Dembele, but we are grasping now.

I really wanted this deal done but looks like we will be left dissapointed.
And that’s exactly the point. They have put in a big line in the sand to try and force Utd’s hand.

The alternative is to say, yes he’s for sale, and looking forward to seeing him join Utd. One stance gets the selling club more money - that’s the point. It’s just negotiation.
 

Rooney1987

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These “This is over” posts have became just as annoying as the over the top look for anything positive posts.
 

ThinkTank@Cafe

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655 pages. Proper muppetry on here. This thread is going to surpass 1000 and end in tears.
 

Jmck

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Is it not possible that we are just waiting for the Europa league to be over? Same as we are apparently doing to begin negotiations with Pogba.

Sancho joining would overshadow a European semi final and potential final. It would make sense if that was the case for what seems like dithering.

Bottom line is we don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. It could all be under control. That could also be wishful thinking!
 

Swarm

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Saw it in the r/borussiadortmund transfer thread. I could have misunderstood it though:)
Okay, not something I follow so I am going out on a limb here and guess that there are some proper muppets doing their thing over there as well. I don't think a majority of supporters would assume that such a thing is possible. They may like the prospect however if they are unaware of the implications or financial constraints the club definitely has.
 

Sphaero

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Why does he need to give interviews though? He wouldn't unless it was planned to speak about the matter surely.
It is not that he gave an interview but what he said. It is not that hard to give noncommitical generic answers. Just say the first two quoted sentences and leave it at that. Why bring up the youngsters by yourself and your plan to guide them, basically telling the fans and club of your desire to return the courtesy (being shown the ropes at a very young age) that was shown to yourself? This actually communicates commitment and a sense of responsibility that he would not need to show. These are exactly the kinds of statements that would be slapped in his face if he would then turn around and push for a move. Unless of course this is actually genuine and he looks forward to help kids that remind him in part of himself.

There was a comment here in jest about grooming his own successor, but I actually don´t see that as such an outlandish concept. Leaving an employer on a positive note with the knowledge that the spot you leave behind is in capable hands is not an uncommon goal. His desire to go home in the near future does not need to erase the gratitude or positive connection he might have to Dortmund. It is the club where he made it big and which took good care of him.
 

elnorte

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People clung on to the tiniest little shreds of hope with Sneijder right till the bitter end. The club never issued a brief stating that they were ending their interest.
 

Random Task

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This is over. We missed the chance to sign possibly Englands best player for the next 10 years. In a few years that 120 mill will look like a bargain.
Can people stop saying it's over?

The deal is still very much a possibility until a United representative indicates otherwise, at which point we'll move on to another target.
 

do.ob

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There is a lot of assumptions floating around about who’s in charge of Borussia Dortmund’s decisions making regarding players transfers. Michael Zork is only a puppet if this wasn’t obvious. Even German supporters seems to ignore how a club of the size of Borussia Dortmund works in reality.

Below information is from Aktie.bvb.de/English

According to their annual reports CEO Hans Joachim Watzke has total responsibility against his board to maximize sport related and financial success. He is acting on behalf of BD shareholders and their supervising board. Every significant financial decision needs approval from the Supervising board.

Responsible for finances and organization is Thomas Tress. He’s a tax advisor, auditor and a business graduate.

Responsible for Sales and Marketing is Carsten Cramer.

These three will advise the Supervising Board who makes the final decision regarding such a huge transaction. I assume that Thomas Tress has the final decision regarding the payment structure.

The Board and CEO Hans Joachim Watzke will probably ask a couple of questions to Michael Zorc and his team before they make a framework how and when to sell Jadon Sancho.

My experience is that something similar to below questions should give them necessary information in order to take a sensible decision.

1. Will the sale of Jadon Sancho jeopardize BD CL qualification in the upcoming season?
2. Do we need a replacement player in that position and how much will it cost?
3. Is their any other implications of letting one of our best players being sold?
4. Without COVID what’s a reasonable value of Sancho?

Intangibles we don’t know about is how much “pride“ will affect their decision making. FC Bayern seems to know how to “upset” their neighbors. Do they have a complex of being a “selling club”? United is a English club, will such a detail affect their decision.

One thing I’m certain about is that all involved, probably except Michale Zorc, is extremely aware of the implications with COVID and how it can affect the future. The owners and the Board of Borussia Dortmund seems to deeply care for their club. From what I can understand they have a respectable responsibility to the local society and their supporters. (Great owners so to speak)

If the right offer is there then the payment structure is probably the only hurdle to overcome. In the end money talks more the words.
What's your point, you think Zorc is flying solo here? Gambling with the club's reputation without consulting his CEO, who he is - at least according to public perception - friends with? You think he, as someone who has been with the club for over 40 years, is not too concerned about the club's financial stability?
Dortmund's strategy for the season is supposedly discussed by meetings of five people: Watzke, Zorc, Favre (coach), Kehl (squad manager and Zorc's designated heir) and Sammer (advisor). I can't remember a single report of disharmony within the management since the current leadership took over. Whatever Zorc does it's safe to assume that it's the product of a consesus between him and Watzke.
 
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SATA

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People clung on to the tiniest little shreds of hope with Sneijder right till the bitter end. The club never issued a brief stating that they were ending their interest.
The club works differently now after Gill and Fergie. Woodward is very particular about face
 

0le

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Okay, not something I follow so I am going out on a limb here and guess that there are some proper muppets doing their thing over there as well. I don't think a majority of supporters would assume that such a thing is possible. They may like the prospect however if they are unaware of the implications or financial constraints the club definitely has.
Do yourself a favour and don't visit it in the future either. Seems like a shite place. I looked at their Sancho thread from yesterday. One user said we are a toxic fanbase (lol?) and a few said we are all deluded in thinking Sancho is coming. They obviously haven't bothered checking this thread where quite a substantial number of users feel the deal is off and have done for some time.
 

Superunknown

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Can people stop saying it's over?

The deal is still very much a possibility until a United representative indicates otherwise, at which point we'll move on to another target.
Imagine if we gave up on every transfer after the selling club puts up the slightest bit of resistance. We'd never sign anyone. :lol:
 

Random Task

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People clung on to the tiniest little shreds of hope with Sneijder right till the bitter end. The club never issued a brief stating that they were ending their interest.
Unless my memory fails me, it was only last year the club issued a statement informing us that Eriksen and Dybala were no longer an option.

I expect he'll do the same with Sancho. I'm keeping my hopes alive until that point.
 
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I love the guys coming here claiming it's over and to move on.
I’d love to see these guys in an actual negotiation, they believe everything the other side says and everything that’s negative.

They are the sort of people who go into a salesroom and pay whatever the striker price is on the car because they can’t cope with conflict, or can’t cope having to wait a couple of weeks for a better deal.
 

Sandikan

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Can people stop saying it's over?

The deal is still very much a possibility until a United representative indicates otherwise, at which point we'll move on to another target.
Yep, anyone paying even the slightest bit these last few years will immediately know it's over, when suddenly 13 different outlets all say "United move on, were never after Sancho anyway"
 

Swarm

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There is a lot of assumptions floating around about who’s in charge of Borussia Dortmund’s decisions making regarding players transfers. Michael Zork is only a puppet if this wasn’t obvious. Even German supporters seems to ignore how a club of the size of Borussia Dortmund works in reality.

Below information is from Aktie.bvb.de/English

According to their annual reports CEO Hans Joachim Watzke has total responsibility against his board to maximize sport related and financial success. He is acting on behalf of BD shareholders and their supervising board. Every significant financial decision needs approval from the Supervising board.

Responsible for finances and organization is Thomas Tress. He’s a tax advisor, auditor and a business graduate.

Responsible for Sales and Marketing is Carsten Cramer.

These three will advise the Supervising Board who makes the final decision regarding such a huge transaction. I assume that Thomas Tress has the final decision regarding the payment structure.

The Board and CEO Hans Joachim Watzke will probably ask a couple of questions to Michael Zorc and his team before they make a framework how and when to sell Jadon Sancho.

My experience is that something similar to below questions should give them necessary information in order to take a sensible decision.

1. Will the sale of Jadon Sancho jeopardize BD CL qualification in the upcoming season?
2. Do we need a replacement player in that position and how much will it cost?
3. Is their any other implications of letting one of our best players being sold?
4. Without COVID what’s a reasonable value of Sancho?

Intangibles we don’t know about is how much “pride“ will affect their decision making. FC Bayern seems to know how to “upset” their neighbors. Do they have a complex of being a “selling club”? United is a English club, will such a detail affect their decision.

One thing I’m certain about is that all involved, probably except Michale Zorc, is extremely aware of the implications with COVID and how it can affect the future. The owners and the Board of Borussia Dortmund seems to deeply care for their club. From what I can understand they have a respectable responsibility to the local society and their supporters. (Great owners so to speak)

If the right offer is there then the payment structure is probably the only hurdle to overcome. In the end money talks more the words.
What on earth are you talking about? :lol: I am not even sure if you have some sort of agenda or message to get across except to claim that Michael Zorc is an idiot and does not have a say in transfer dealings whatsoever. He is Dortmund's DoF, that is precisely his responsibility. Does he have to get the go ahead from CEO Watzke, the supervisory board and coordinate with Thomas Tress? Of course he does, that is how almost every proper company works, you have a controlling mechanism so a single person does not do something super stupid. But that does not take away from Zorc being the man responsible here.
Just as an aside, Dortmund don't have an owner as that is technically not allowed in Germany per the 50+1 rule. I know it has been hollowed out by clubs such as Leipzig or Hoffenheim, but that is another discussion altogether. You going around praising their benevolent owners is priceless however.
 

Sandikan

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I’d love to see these guys in an actual negotiation, they believe everything the other side says and everything that’s negative.

They are the sort of people who go into a salesroom and pay whatever the striker price is on the car because they can’t cope with conflict, or can’t cope having to wait a couple of weeks for a better deal.
It is like that car buying experience isn't it!
They'll be the ones panicking that the price just for today is literally true!
 

KristianMackle

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As great as Sanco, I still dont think our priority and main signing this summer should be a RW. We have to build from the back and I believe a CB must be the priority along with a LB and a more mobile CDM.
 

Superunknown

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Have we got a secret store cupboard where we keep a surplus of Dortmund fans? Just when I think that I've seen them all, another one pops up. :lol:
 

Dve

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Problem is Grealish won't come cheap now. 80m on Grealish or 110m on sancho. ?
Then I would agree on Sancho. Still, I have a feeling it would be easier to cut a deal with Villa - especially if Grealish expresses his desire to move. Villa could even be interested in a player or two in return, such as Pereira, Lingard or Dalot. Or maybe even Fred or Tuanzebe.
 

theklr

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Even as sure I am of that Sancho is coming I really would like it to be concluded soon. Its abit taxing with all of this back and forth.
 

Inigo Montoya

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As great as Sanco, I still dont think our priority and main signing this summer should be a RW. We have to build from the back and I believe a CB must be the priority along with a LB and a more mobile CDM.
There is a lot of sense in that but I do believe the plan is to get a world class talent like him on board before the CDM or CB position is attended to. If we don't, then I think we'll go for a CDM.

There's still so much time left before this window closes
 
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Imagine if we gave up on every transfer after the selling club puts up the slightest bit of resistance. We'd never sign anyone. :lol:
It’s hilarious.

Given the probable young age of these muppets an analogy may paint a picture for them - it’s like when you ask a girl out and she says no and So you then never go back and ask again, never change the angle, and forever ignore her. Ah I see now, this is what they do in real life.
 
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