Ok then, so are you suggesting he's not a much more proven player than Garner? Or are you one that really wants us to buy Rice?
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Wife's from Nottingham, all her family support Forest, they all rate Garner but aren't sure if he's good enough to be a regular at Utd, having said that he dominated Tielemans and Ndini in the cup, it's can he do that consistently
Thank feck you are not going to be speaking Tchouameni and/or his agent. He’s not going come here to be back up to McT or Fred or Matic.
Rice will go to Chelsea and I don't go overboard on young players playing in tinpot leagues.
But Academy players playing in tinpot leagues?
Fred is sbit and .Matic will be gone by next season.
All I have said is that if Garner continues to impress (thread is about him) then he should have equal opportunity.
I bet if you talk to the agent you would be coughing up 50mil for the kid which is why we are in this mess.
Did you watch the cup tie against Arsenal?
No, but I watched the Middlesbrough Captain run the show against Spurs last night, a decent performance in an FA cup match is hardly the same thing as playing well in multiple CL matches and for the French international team, are you suggesting Garner is on the same level right now as Tchouameni? And are you really suggesting we replace Matic with him as a starter next year?
Garner over Matic next season....Yes as Matic is a squad player.
In regards to the French kid I am not a fan of defensive players that go to ground with sliding tackles frequently as it is an indication of being caught out of position and we can both talk out of our arse about him being a success in the Premier League but we won't know until he is playing here and we will end up paying 50-60mil for the privilege.
Poch would have a better opinion of him than you or I so if he gets the gig let us see what happens.
Firstly I'm trying not to think about Puppettino possibly being our next manager, but ok, my point was that Matic needs replacing as a starter as we don't even have a DM which is why we are using the mediocre McTominay in the role, so I'm saying are you suggesting actually making Garner a main first 11 starter next season? If we got Tchouameni for £50M that would be half the price of Rice, hardly a bad fee in the current market, but I'm getting the feeling like we'd be starting with Mengi, Laird, McTominay, Garner, Hannibal and Amad in our first 11 next season if it were up to you.
What has Amad, Mengi or Hannibal shown to anyone that they are capable of featuring regularly in the Premier League??
Seriously!
Nothing, neither has Laird or Garner, but you seem to be adverse to the club spending on some of the highest rated talent in Europe in favour of playing players who've done nothing outside of have decent but nothing special seasons in 2nd tier football. Basically mate I'm just trying to get a read on what you actually want the club to do, as you're in here essentially saying Garner is on Tchouameni's level and if I'm not mistaken you're in the RW thread wanting us to play Amad next season instead of buying a top RW like Antony.
I think our main point of difference is that I do not take for granted that a young talent in an inferior league outside of England will replicate his form in the Premier League and the prices are never low to actually verify that.
This is the second season that Garner has stood out in the Championship and he is an England u21 player so I would like to see him back at our club and see if he can rise to the occasion and he is a Manchester United player at the moment
I'm not taking it for granted but we can't just buy within the PL all of the time, I mean we've blown £130M on AWB and Maguire in recent years and they were supposedly "PL proven" players. Tchouameni isn't playing in a league as strong as the PL but he's also performed well in the CL and at international level. The truth is none of the other leagues right now are as strong as the PL but Bruno for instance has been one of our more successful signings in recent times and he came from a lower league than France and doesn't have the physical attributes Tchouameni has to naturally adapt to the PL.
The Championship is even further down the totem pole than the Portuguese or Dutch leagues and I wouldn't say Garner has set it alight, he's been a consistently solid performer in a mediocre team with no expectations beyond not being relegated, I'd have him in the squad next season as the back-up to the starting DM, whomever that may be, but nothing more than that for now.
Well I think you underrate the Championship as I reckon out of the three teams that get promoted each year there would be individuals that are better than the players we have at our club.
You mention Antony from Ajax, Is he a higher rated prospect than Van De Beek was when he was at the club?
We have seen Klasson and VDB already, when we bought Blind he was voted as the best player in that league and while he was a decent squad option for us he was as slow as feck but now he excels back at Ajax, Tadic was okay at the Saints but excelled at Ajax so we can see the pattern can we not?
I have said that I think Amad should be a possible RW option for us but of course he has to show something at Rangers to get a crack at that for us but we have to remember he is one of the very bright talents from a foreign league that you have mentioned and we are 18mil quid invested as it is so we have a little time up our sleeves there.
I think that speaks more to the state we are in than to the quality of the Championship mate. It's fair to say that transfers from the Dutch league to bigger leagues in general have been very hit and miss in recent years, although I think Van de Beek hasn't been given a proper chance at United. The Amad signing remains a puzzling one, he'd barely played any senior football for Atalanta when we paid a decent chunk for him, and while technically good he's built like a 15 year old, something we were surely aware of, and so far can't cement a place in a league far below the Dutch, Portuguese or indeed the Championship, to me he's not even in contention for anything but a loan next season as he's yet to do anything, and I think it's telling that Rangnick never really used him but has promoted Elanga from the same youth crop.
There have been loads over the years that can play in the top clubs.
It is funny how you say it is telling that Rangnick did not fancy Amad and then say that VDB has not been given a decent chance at the club???
Garner deserves his next season; I can see us buying one no6 and banking on Garner stepping up to the plate. Hannibal can also stake a claim for a place in the team. Get the defence sorted out to play a high line with Rice as the no6, and we will improve significantly. Both FB positions are up for grabs as the FBs that we have a way below the players the Pool, City and Chelsea have to choose from.
As for Garner, all he is missing is an opportunity, and then he needs to be ready to take it. He's a leader and could have a great future if he gets the proper breaks.
If we are brave an appoint ETH, and have Ragnick in the background supporting the new manager the future could be bright.
We have the talent coming through in the like of Garner and Hannibal all they need is the chance to shine.
As for Garner, all he is missing is an opportunity, and then he needs to be ready to take it. He's a leader and could have a great future if he gets the proper breaks.
If we are brave an appoint ETH, and have Ragnick in the background supporting the new manager the future could be bright.
We have the talent coming through in the like of Garner and Hannibal all they need is the chance to shine.
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From the Championship? I don't recall many making the move from a promoted Championship side to United/City/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal etc...to signifigant success. Van de Beek is a senior player who'd been treat like shit for 18 months before Rangnick got here, it was clear he was determined to go on loan as soon as January hit.
I said
I said 'can'
Kelvin Philips or Max Aarons could easily play for the top clubs to name recent ones.
Ralf had a good look at VDB and saw what Ollie saw and that is why he went on loan...as simple as that!
Don't think he'd have said no if Rangnick wanted to start him more often. He chose McFred. It's that simple.
Never understood the need to base my opinion on who the manager(s) favor, but the whole "not fancied by both managers" thing is true.
Saw what? Is this the “Donny was shit in training” theory again? Truth is, we spent 35m on a transfer fee and 100k/week on wages (it is claimed) on a player neither Ole nor Ralf ever gave a chance to perform on the pitch. It may well be that Ole was so brilliant a manager that he didn’t need to give Donny a proper chance, but it is a highly debatable proposition that Ole was a brilliant manager. As for Ralf, by the time he came to OT it was clear Donny was going out on loan in January.
Elanga was due to go out but Ralf convinced him to stay.
Why would a manager not play a player if he was better than others in his position?
You'd probably not be bothered, but I am for Garner to eventually be in the team, and I've always had that stand. As you say, Matic will be gone. If pogba goes, that's that. I hope Garner can be in the team beside Tchouameni. Garner would do well to improve on dictating play/tempo in midfield, then become our next Carrick. Tchouameni will be the all-action, box-to-box midfielder we hoped Pogba would be, and Bruno will Bruno. Of course, I'm just playing football manager here.
I do want Garner to be in the team, that's for fecking sure. I also want Mejbri to start getting Lingard's/Mata's/VdB's minutes.
We are not far apart on our opinions then.
I would also like Hannibal to take the minutes of players that have no future at the club but he has to show the manager he is a better option.
I would like to see Hannibal and Garner in midfield some day for us.
Because we have Fred and McTominay, obviously works class midfielders, vastly superior to Donny, who was unworthy of even being given a chance after we went 35m to acquire him.
On Garner, yeah I guess so.
On Hannibal, I disagree with the latter half of your sentence. The fact that he has potential and is going to be here next season (referring to Lingard not renewing ) should already make him the better option. Furthermore, you know what you will get with Mata - loads of huffing and puffing, but no house will be blown down. Lingard, yes, he has had some major moments, but even when he was starting games week in week out, he never had any consistency and you never knew which Lingard you would get - headless chicken who couldn’t pass or control the ball, or attacking spaces offering decent off-the-ball movement. He was never close to being the player he thought he was, and he will never be. He bought into his own hype and the media didn’t help either.
[Edit] Apologies for the derail, this is the Garner thread, not Mejbri’s.
Agree with this, I really hope we have a project to egt him in the first team. Buy an anchorman and use Garner as an 8 with Fred offering us insurance should Garner not settle in the first team or grab his chance. With the number of first team players we need in the summer we have to turn to the youth players to supplement our needs or otherwise we would be forced to embark on Ole's snail pace rebuild.
So a manager will gladly lessen his chances of getting a result by playing inferior players then......Genius!
If I am looking to try out a young player for a key position in the team I'd do it with the knowledge that there is a reliable player who has played the position well before who can come in should the said young player be overwhelmed, which is always a risk with young players. Ordinarily I'd buy a new CM instead but given what we need in other areas of the team I'd be more inclined to promote a young player with the same attributes I am looking for in the team - a good defensive game, great passing and technique.Fred as insurance??????
I have heard it all now
He is starting today against Sheffield. will be tuning in to see how he does.
I wish I hadn't. I've no idea what he is learning playing for Forest if they play that every week.
That was dreadful football from them
Forest just snatched a late equaliser. Garner got the delivery right for the goal.
This kid can tackle, press resistant, put a pass forward and take a corner ? 4 way org*sm in 1 player
"Inferior"?
Do you really -- seriously, not just forum shits-spouting -- believe Fred or McTominay would get anywhere near the Ajax squad?
If Blind and Tadic can make it look easy then I don't see why not?"Inferior"?
Do you really -- seriously, not just forum shits-spouting -- believe Fred or McTominay would get anywhere near the Ajax squad?
Irrelevant anyway as Ajax do not play in the Premier League and that is where VDB is being judged at the moment so let us see how the loan works out.
I know you're half-joking but it's true. My concern with him is that he is so little involved sometimes, even though he assisted and put in some nice passes yesterday. From midfield to defense, only Spence made fewer passes. Hard to tell if it's the way they play or if it's on him, but I've noticed the same things when he has played for the first team here.
Needs a PL loan. Backup/Squad player here is about 10 starts a season, if even that. He needs another full season of development as a more important player elsewhere. He’s under contract for a while yet so I hope we keep it sensible and let him get these vital minutes and exposure instead of keeping him around just in case. I’m becoming more and more positive with him but he probably won’t start peaking until his mid 20s. Keep the talent moving!
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