- Joined
- May 28, 2013
- Messages
- 2,342
I've always wondered why Irish Nationalists that have real issues with England chose to live and work in England.
Yes was waiting on this one
I've always wondered why Irish Nationalists that have real issues with England chose to live and work in England.
No my experience isn't as important as Mccleans. Oh wait, I thought all forms of discrimination are unacceptable?I don't think there is any parallel to be drawn between the experience of a Welsh Catholic and and Northern Irish Catholic and it's quite ignorant to attempt one.
I’ve always wondered why the British decided to occupy nations and lands that don’t belong to them and then act like the victims of their expansions have a choice in not being a part of their feckery.I've always wondered why Irish Nationalists that have real issues with England chose to live and work in England.
What's the answer then?Yes was waiting on this one
I'm sure he would appreciate their Orange order kit.Maybe he should be made to play for Linfield for his dim, opinionated behaviour.
Mate he is receiving abuse though, much of it based around his nationality and background, sectarian and Anti-Irish in nature. Surely you see that?But nobody is taking the p*ss out of him for where he’s from are they now.
Perspective.
I’ve gone to football matches home and away for the majority of my adult life, not ONCE have I heard Irish racism.
I must be deaf as well as stupid fellas.
What it means is that the type of anti-Irish abuse and tropes that McClean has been subjected to have historically been utilized by British authorities in order to rationalize a series of policies which have proved to be majorly destructive to the Irish nation. And are still held on to by some whose aim is to continue to deny legitimate Irish nationalist claims to an equal share in the politics of Northern Ireland today.OK so what your saying is that my experience of racial abuse / stereotyping doesn't count as much as James Mccleans right? Well that's funny because I've been hammered in here for drawing the same example between Mcclean throwing his name into the hat with ethnic minorities for which taking the knee was started.
Don't give the tories any ideas!
Kneeling down behind sheep, eh pal?See this is why I think they should take the knee for Welshman as well!
Point proved really.
No it's clear as day. The same way I pointed out that Mcclean's abuse contrasts massively to that of ethnic minorities.It is in that sense that parallels may be drawn with the type of abuse leveled at other minorities, although every case obviously has its own dynamic and degree of severity. The contrast with Welsh history should be obvious, although I get the feeling it’ll have to be spelled out to you.
Is anybody noticing my racial oppression here!?Kneeling down behind sheep, eh pal?
You are right there isn't much they can do but how about if they simply acknowledged the sectarian/anti-Irish abuse he receives and stated publicly that it is wrong?Not to demean his argument but he's chosen a particularly prickly hill to die on with the poppy situation. That's fine, his decision, move on. But then he does the Balaclava thing, this to many including myself, puts an entirely different spin on his stance on things and this issue.
I detest the FA personally but stamping out racism is very difficult for a football governing body like them, they can't stop idiots using the mail, they can't really stop idiots online. What are they supposed to do? Whether they disagree or agree with his stance on the poppy or not, I don't see what they can do.
Even now, the only reason players are taking the knee is because they want to, after a worldwide movement. It wasn't ushered in solely for BLM by the FA in spite of Mcclean. That's my point.
I don't understand this.I’ve always wondered why the British decided to occupy nations and lands that don’t belong to them and then act like the victims of their expansions have a choice in not being a part of their feckery.
You've always wondered why people who live in a region of a country left in shit state after occupation, oppression and subsequent neglect, chose to move to another area within the same country to better their lives?I've always wondered why Irish Nationalists that have real issues with England choose to live and work in England.
Given that I’ve literally just explained to you how the dynamic of the abuse McClean receives is comparable (please note - this does not mean “is the exact same”) to that received by other minorities in a way that abuse received by the Welsh is not, I believe you’ve missed the point entirely.No it's clear as day. The same way I pointed out that Mcclean's abuse contrasts massively to that of ethnic minorities.
It seems the point I made in my original post is being used against me ironically.
My comparison was sarcastic, to prove the point that it did.Mate he is receiving abuse though, much of it based around his nationality and background, sectarian and Anti-Irish in nature. Surely you see that?
You claim McClean is an idiot for comparing the abuse he receives to the abuse ethnic minorities who have suffered far worse receive. You then compare being called a sheep shagger because you are Welsh to the abuse Irish people have received and continue to. Tell me mate who do you think has had it far worse over the past century or so the Irish or the Welsh? Just saying.
For the record all type of abuse is wrong even the stuff you've said you were on the end of. But this isn't an oppression competition, all this abuse anyone receives based on their Race/Religion/Ethnicity/Gender/Nationality etc. is wrong and should be stamped out. It should be unacceptable to good reasonable members of society regardless of whether or not you or I think the guy on the receiving end of it is a bit of an idiot/dick/plonker.
Yeah no doubt.My comparison was sarcastic, to prove the point that it did.
Is he wrong to ask the FA to do more about the abuse he receives though?Everybody was quick to point out that my personal experience of genuine discrimination pales in comparison to Mccleans. It does. And so does his to the cause he's calling out and the FA.
That's your opinion, not mine.Given that I’ve literally just explained to you how the dynamic of the abuse McClean receives is comparable (please note - this does not mean “is the exact same”) to that received by other minorities in a way that abuse received by the Welsh is not, I believe you’ve missed the point entirely.
Is anybody noticing my racial oppression here!?
We feck them and you eat them pal
There's a reason lamb is the tastiest meat.
He can ask, but what can they do? They aren't 'doing' anything now, the players are taking the knee themselves. Give me one example of what they can do.Is he wrong to ask the FA to do more about the abuse he receives though?
Again, I’ve literally just explained this to you:That's your opinion, not mine.
Mcclean brings a lot of attention from idiots by doing things like wearing a balaclava whilst teaching his kids online. How does that compare to say Rashford or Tuenzebe being called disgusting, vile racist names with monkey emoji's etc?
the type of anti-Irish abuse and tropes that McClean has been subjected to have historically been utilized by British authorities in order to rationalize a series of policies which have proved to be majorly destructive to the Irish nation. And are still held on to by some whose aim is to continue to deny legitimate Irish nationalist claims to an equal share in the politics of Northern Ireland today.
It is in that sense that parallels may be drawn with the type of abuse leveled at other minorities, although every case obviously has its own dynamic and degree of severity.
So if Rashford or Tuanzebe posted a picture that some people found politically distasteful online. Then it would be ok for people to racially abuse them then? Or would it still be wrong?That's your opinion, not mine.
Mcclean brings a lot of attention from idiots by doing things like wearing a balaclava whilst teaching his kids online. How does that compare to say Rashford or Tuenzebe being called disgusting, vile racist names with monkey emoji's etc? It doesn't.
I have they could do more to support him publicly at the very least.He can ask, but what can they do? They aren't 'doing' anything now, the players are taking the knee themselves. Give me one example of what they can do.
Personally if I did the balaclava thing after already taking the stance on poppies I'd fully expect a shitstorm of vile abuse coming my way. Not because I think it's acceptable (not in the slightest) but because that is the world we live in and I don't believe for one second he didn't know what he was doing and what reaction that photo would spark.
No I didn't make the same point and if you had a clue you'd realise that.No my experience isn't as important as Mccleans. Oh wait, I thought all forms of discrimination are unacceptable?
Ironically you've just made the exact point I made with my initial post about Mcclean drawing comparisons about his own experience and those of ethnic minorities for which taking the knee started.
So if Rashford or Tuanzebe posted a picture that some people found politically distasteful online. Then it would be ok for people to racially abuse them then? Or would it still be wrong?
For the record he was getting abused long before he posted a picture of himself with a balaclava.
I have they could do more to support him publicly at the very least.
He's not being attacked for being Irish. He's being attacked for bowing his head down during God Save the Queen. Other Irish players don't get the abuse he gets. Anyways it's up to the FA to sort it out, but what exactly can they do? Allow him to come only come out onto the pitch once the song is over? I've no idea how you get around this one
Anyways I'm not gonna get into it again. There's some who staunchly defend him on here, and others who despise him. The debate is not worth it.
You missed where I said it was still unacceptable for anybody to abuse him, even after the balaclava incident. What I said was, it's a different scenario, one in which he's publicly drawing the attention of online idiots.So if Rashford or Tuanzebe posted a picture that some people found politically distasteful online. Then it would be ok for people to racially abuse them then? Or would it still be wrong?
For the record he was getting abused long before he posted a picture of himself with a balaclava.
I have they could do more to support him publicly at the very least.
I'm sure all the racists online could use try to use a similar excuse. It was 100% unacceptable.The picture was posted as a joke in response to all the abuse he was being subjected to. The only ones offended were those who could give the abuse but couldn't take a joke.
Probably but he just gave people ammunition to justify the abuse he receives, it was obvious it would be twisted idiots.The picture was posted as a joke in response to all the abuse he was being subjected to. The only ones offended were those who could give the abuse but couldn't take a joke.
I think it the answer is to address the points brought up in the OP and not try and distract from difficult questions with whataboutism.What's the answer then?
I didn't mate even though it was in a different post.You missed where I said it was still unacceptable for anybody to abuse him, even after the balaclava incident. What I said was, it's a different scenario, one in which he's publicly drawing the attention of online idiots.
I'm sure you'll know that lots of groups wore balaclavas mate not just the IRA.And it was more the a mere politically distasteful picture, he was pretending to teach his children dressed as though he's in the IRA. With all the needless upset that brings to many people and the potential to reignite trouble. It was idiotic in every sense of the word and every bit as disgusting as somebody sending a racist message to somebody online.
Bloody hellIf he hates England so much, why play his trade there? Perfectly good Irish league to play in, I say this knowing how much hate certain Republicans have for the English, yes with good reason, but why even put yourself in such a position if you feel that way?
What makes you think he hates England?If he hates England so much, why play his trade there? Perfectly good Irish league to play in, I say this knowing how much hate certain Republicans have for the English, yes with good reason, but why even put yourself in such a position if you feel that way?
I think he received ammunition literally. Post cards. Stuff goes way beyond Twitter. Basically same as Lenon. Maybe both are aren’t to some people tastes but completely unforgivable behaviour.The balaclava incident was idiotic, and clearly offensive to some people. Whether it was intended as a joke or not doesn’t matter.
He doesn’t come across as someone who is particularly smart - that doesn’t mean he should be abused. However, he given Twitter people ammunition (ironic choice of phrase), who jumped on it.
the state of online abuse doesn’t seem to be going anywhere, I am not sure anyone really seems to care - it seems to have just become the norm.
I don’t think he hates England. I mean he probably has a lot of English friends and team mates. Big difference between not wearing a poppy and having republican views.If he hates England so much, why play his trade there? Perfectly good Irish league to play in, I say this knowing how much hate certain Republicans have for the English, yes with good reason, but why even put yourself in such a position if you feel that way?
madness.I think he received ammunition literally. Post cards. Stuff goes way beyond Twitter. Basically same as Lenon. Maybe both are aren’t to some people tastes but completely unforgivable behaviour.
I assume its due to pragmatic advantages/necessities, opportunities and quality of life.What's the answer then?